Pro Evo Old School Die-Hards ..................

Been a Pro Evo fan for life, (actually more Winning Eleven) and I miss the good old days. As so many people I have been turned off almost completly by the latest installments of PES. I prey to the consolegods that PES2010 will turn everthing around again. I truely need a fun and fluid next gen football game. Fifa is not an option for me.
 
What went wrong at Konami I have no idea.. I would love to know. How they can produce gems on the PS2 then ruin it on next-gen consoles is beyond me..
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
...Pro Evo, regardless of its flaws, for me personally is my football game of choice.

Also, just to add, I couldnt stop playing the PES 2009 demo, I played it for 8 hours at a time, couldnt get off the bloody thing, and I thought my days of football game addiction had gone. I was wrong. And I've never been so happy to be so wrong. ;0)

( The Ref say's ' Play on ' ............. )
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i think the same like you!
when i firtst played the demo i was in a "matrix" and was addicted. played pes 2009 for many hours now and i think it's gameplay/ ballphysics wise the best football game out there atm.
 
I am Playing WE/Pes since good old Days on Ps one, also old gen Footies on Mega drive, later Sega world wide soccer on Saturn. I was allways loking forward to find the perfekt footballgame. Than i start my new expirience with international superstar soccer pro 98! Wow what a Game, than Pro evolution soccer, wow realistic, the Game gets better and better! Than Ps2 my first WE....wohoooooo, thats soccer thats real football, every year an update, nice Patches spending Nights to do my own Patches. Than one Day Konami releases PES6, after 5 Matches i ask myself, what is this?
for years now i get small Updates for Fullprice and after we8 the series stopps, nothing new, no improvements(real improvements)!

Than il get my first Fifa( to see whats going on) Fifa 07 on old xbox, awesome Graphics....full licenced, every league i want, exellent Speakers( for the first 10 Matches)gameplay? Oh i like it, its fast its feels like a Videogame, shoots are inceredible.Ok but in Multiplayer and online wooohooo it makes Fun...............!

But i am a PES fan so it stays untuched i want to Play PEs online, , than PES 6 on my 360 oh? Sorry what is that for an big Crap? Gameplay is like Fifa 07 on my xbox? same as the Graphics! But ok i am an PES Fas, so i get PES 2008, an absolute desaster, thats not PES that is Bullshit! Since PES 6 playing online is the biggest shit i have ever played online, thats not football thats Crap, especially online!

So i have now PES 2009 and Fifa 2009 but i still prefer Fifa 2009 and that is strange for me, friends of mine who played for years Fifa, are now PES boys, an ihear them Talking oh what a gameplay, oh thats realistic!!!! wrong world ??? No that happens when you Programm Videogames for the masses!

So i Play online my Fifa 09 and have Fun, i give a shit on the next Konami release,i have stopped making patches for this crap.

For the next release i will test the Game, it will be first time i get no PES on release, thanks for some nice years konami, but also for 3 bad Years with 3 Bad games, and an onlinemode who is crapp!

:CRY:
 
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if my memory is correct i seemed to feel that the transition between ps1 > ps2 is similar to whats happening now, i cant remember the first two pro evo's being a great leap forward, for me it felt like a step back, its just my opinion but i think for me it took konami and seabass a few years to get pro evo right on the ps2, they have only had two years on next gen so for me the best has yet to come.
as i said its only my opinion i play both fifa and pro evo, but as im getting older i seem to like the manager games more now, at this point im actually playing fifa manager with the fusion hack thignmy so i can controll all my players, the gameplay is absolutly rubbish, cant switch players manually and the response time is so slow, but its the fact thats its a real season with real league structures, etc. so to be completly honest a mix and mash of all three games would be amazing.
all games have good points and bad points
good thread, maturely discused by all so far
 
I really don't want to play a football game like PES where I am not in control of what I am doing, where the CPU does all the work.

These are the only ways to pass on PES:
1) Pass straight to a player's feet with the normal pass button
2) Play the ball ahead of a player with the through ball button (how far it goes ahead is up to the game, not you)
3) Play long balls in 8 directions, nowhere near enough
4) Use the pathetic "manual" pass, which only has 8 directions, making it mostly useless.

Analog sticks have been round for ages, yet they can still only offer a scripted and dated automated passing system which is the same as PES1 (and probably the ISS games before it).

FIFA offers proper manual passing, where you point the analog stick is where the pass goes, how long you hold the pass button down determines the power. This is for short passes, through balls, long balls, chipped passes etc. and also for crosses if you like.
The freedom that those manual controls bring is the main thing that PES lacks - PES now seems so on-rails compared.
On FIFA when you play a defence-splitting pass or put together a good move then it's actually an achievement as it's quite difficult (as it should be).

On PES when you press the through-ball button and get a defence-splitting pass it's just a fluke, no skill involved. All you need to know is the very basics of football and have a bit of common sense and you're a good PES player.

When I played PES5 and 6 online, although they were good fun, there used to be some twats who you could tell had no skill or idea of how football is meant to be played, yet could just pass round constantly doing precise one-touch moves and stuff.

So until the game actually has some sort of control system which gives you control and freedom, i'll stay away from PES on next-gen consoles and PC.
 
I still play Pro because every time I get sick of it and decide to give FIFA a go to see what all the fuss is about, I always end up back on Pro.

FIFA just doesnt feel right to me in many ways. The whole "power bar" system of passing and shooting which a lot of folk seem to like feels awkward and time consuming to me. You dont have to "power up" your leg every time you want to play a long(ish) pass in real life do you? It's all about technique, backlift isnt always required to shoot with power either. Add that to the fact that the players really do feel sluggish and unresponsive and It doesnt add up to a whole lot of fun, in my opinion.

On the other hand Pro Evo is far from perfect. It's made a mockery of the term "evolution" for a start. Just look at the Master League, you can count the changes to that over the years on Abu Hamza's hand. The online play is hopelessly broken, which is nothing short of a disgrace on a next gen title, especially when you consider FIFA servers can run 10 v 10 games. Pro cant even handle 4 Legends playing at once. The BAL mode is fun for a few seasons then quickly becomes a boring, repetitive slog thanks to the teeth grindingly bad AI of your team mates and the frankly ridiculous transfer system.

Despite this, I still prefer the feel of Pro Evo to FIFA. I enjoy playing it despite it's flaws and I feel those flaws are easier to cope with than FIFA's, although I certainly dont play it as often as I played previous Pro Evo or even ISS titles. Or with as big a smile on my face.

On the whole, these are two distinctly average footy titles and when you look at what other games are achieving in terms of graphics and playability on next gen machines you have to wonder whether we're being ripped off by EA and Konami. The second rate, deeply flawed stuff they're producing isnt really worth £40 but still we pay it because there simply are no alternatives for football fans.

We can only hope things will get much better but does anyone really think they will anytime soon? Like I said, we're gonna spend our 40 hard earned bucks on the games anyway aren't we? What choice do we have if we want to play football on our consoles? EA and Konami know this only too well methinks....
 
pj_puttz said:
I still play Pro because every time I get sick of it and decide to give FIFA a go to see what all the fuss is about, I always end up back on Pro.

FIFA just doesnt feel right to me in many ways. The whole "power bar" system of passing and shooting which a lot of folk seem to like feels awkward and time consuming to me. You dont have to "power up" your leg every time you want to play a long(ish) pass in real life do you? It's all about technique, backlift isnt always required to shoot with power either. Add that to the fact that the players really do feel sluggish and unresponsive and It doesnt add up to a whole lot of fun, in my opinion.

On the other hand Pro Evo is far from perfect. It's made a mockery of the term "evolution" for a start. Just look at the Master League, you can count the changes to that over the years on Abu Hamza's hand. The online play is hopelessly broken, which is nothing short of a disgrace on a next gen title, especially when you consider FIFA servers can run 10 v 10 games. Pro cant even handle 4 Legends playing at once. The BAL mode is fun for a few seasons then quickly becomes a boring, repetitive slog thanks to the teeth grindingly bad AI of your team mates and the frankly ridiculous transfer system.

Despite this, I still prefer the feel of Pro Evo to FIFA. I enjoy playing it despite it's flaws and I feel those flaws are easier to cope with than FIFA's, although I certainly dont play it as often as I played previous Pro Evo or even ISS titles. Or with as big a smile on my face.

On the whole, these are two distinctly average footy titles and when you look at what other games are achieving in terms of graphics and playability on next gen machines you have to wonder whether we're being ripped off by EA and Konami. The second rate, deeply flawed stuff they're producing isnt really worth £40 but still we pay it because there simply are no alternatives for football fans.

We can only hope things will get much better but does anyone really think they will anytime soon? Like I said, we're gonna spend our 40 hard earned bucks on the games anyway aren't we? What choice do we have if we want to play football on our consoles? EA and Konami know this only too well methinks....
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Excellent post by the way.

Although I personally think that EA are doing a cracking job on trying to improve Fifa. They have taken some of the best bits of the PES/WE series and tried to implement them into their respective title. Konami created the original blue-prints and engine for the most realistic football game out there,it's just a shame they rested on their laurels. Konami over the years have become very lazy, that's the bottom line.

I totally appreciate the strides EA have made with Fifa, and I so wish that Konami had the same passion to improve their product. Maybe all the praise that was bestowed on Konami in the early days created the arrogant monster of today. Fifa on the other hand was always regarded 2nd best to the PES/WE series in the realism stakes, and because of that they always chased the crown.

EA's desire to improve and Konami's arrogance have led us to where we are today.

I'm still a Pro Evo Fan, it's the game I love to play, but that doesnt mean I'm happy with their progress, because I'm not. I actually really enjoy PES 2009, but I'm not sure just how much of that is because I was so disappointed with PES 2008 ??

For Rob 92,

I do understand where your coming from with regards the passing options on Fifa, and I do think it's a good idea with regards the amount of power you need to apply to pull off the perfect through ball. But I must admit, I do personally prefer it to be down to the individual player making the pass and his stats, as opposed to me being totally responsible for the outcome.

I expect Scholes, Xavi, Gerrard etc to be able to pick out 'that' pass when lesser players cannot. Pro Evo for me really takes all this into consideration, when I played Fifa I found this happened less so. I found that unless I got the weight of the pass perfect with the likes of Scholes, it never found it's way to my striker. Therefore I was taking Scholes's ability out of the equation, it all seemed down to me. Which takes away from the individualism of each player. I understand and appreciate the concept, even if I dont fully subscribe to it.
 
Well I'm 39 and like many here have been playing footie games for as long as I can remember. The best footie game is PES6 I think. The next gen versions are just awful. I bought all 3 and got rid of them all after 1 week. I used to be a Fifa fan before PES until I played the first PES game. I only started modding PES for V5 + V6. Most of the guys on here do a better job at patching the games...maybe Konami should be hiring you all. It's ridiculous that Konami have made so much out of PEs and have done next to nothing to update it over the years.

I never ever thought I would say this but I now play Fifa09. I have no loyalty to konami. Why should I really after the rubbish they've been dishing out to us on not just 1 but the past 3 incarnations of PES.

Loyalty has to be earned Konami !! Take note.

I will always lean towards PES but for now I want to play the best footie game for the xbox360 which I think is Fifa09. PES6 on PS2 is still best fottie game ever tho. I still hope and pray that the PES series will one day regain it's rightful place as the best.

cheers,
Kronos
 
They will only for the goodness of the PS2 versions. But I fear this won't last for long if Fifa keeps progressing and Konami does nothing.
 
KRoNoS said:
PES6 on PS2 is still best fottie game ever tho.
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It is with your legendary commentary patch pal ;0) You'll never know just how many smiles that work of genius put on my face KRoNos ;0)

Interesting to read that you prefer Fifa 09 now though, guess it's just me and (maybe)the other 'winning' 11 that still hold PES close to our hearts. ;0)
 
Good thread. I have made the switch to Fifa 09 but still think about switching back every day! Ther reason I made the switch (when I bought Fifa 08) wasn't because it was better, but because the tide was turning - in other words, Fifa will sooner or later get the measure of Pro Evo in an undisputed way - and even the most loyal Evo fan will make the switch.

I wish I was wrong because, frankly, the footabll sim situation on PS3/Xbox is in a terrible state. PES6 will not be matched for some time yet. If I were Seabass, I'd be releasing an 'Old School' version of Pro Evo - ie a ported version of PES6 with improved graphics and updated teams - because the priority for Konami is to get the hardcore fans back from Fifa before they pull the remaining few over with them. If Pro Evo loses its hardcore, it is over so the fact that the 'who's still playing Pro Evo' question is being almost marks the beginning of the end for Pro Evo - unless they really do something monumental, high-risk and notable.

... but with the leaps and bounds being made by EA, I can't see it happening - a bit more fluidity, better shooting and improved collision handling and I think Fifa will really have made a game but, deep down, all I want is PES 6 remade.
 
I've been playing Pro Evo since the PS One days. To me its always been superior to FIFA. I honestly think that within the next 2 years we'll see a truly amazing game created by Konami - like the ones we fell in love with way back when. Saying that, i play PES09 almost exclusivly and think its a great game and shows a vast improvement over last years effort (taking the point that it wouldnt be TOO difficult to create something better then last year! aha)
I do wonder though if i've forgottern how good the PS2 vesions were...
 
I'm 30 and have always been and forever be a PES player. FIFA just never cuts it and always seems to be aimed at the younger ages and "perhaps" the more arcade player. Just my opinion.....


I await the FIFA fanboys verbal volleys.

People forget when the first PES came out on the PS2 it wasn't that hot and i stuck to the PS1 version. But i expect the next edition or the following one to peak then the slow decline will happen as with what happened on the PS2 from PES3 to 5 great 6 up shit.
 
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Nice to see some familiar stories here. I was hooked on PES and WE games since the Nintendo days, im 29. Have been involved in patching, editing etc. when I found the time and overall played more hours of PES than I care to remember.

On the old school gamers FIFA debate, I must say that I have somewhat mixed feelings when assesing EA and Konami's latest efforts.

I play online FIFA09 and thought it was the dog's bollocks 2 weeks into buying it. But slowly the novelty has worn off and you need more than a few bong hits to get into this game and stay interested longer than 3 matches.

What annoys me?

1. FIFA rewards trickery and clever use of game flaws. e.g. forwards that steal the ball even when directly behind my defender who supposodly has contro of it,
2. lack of control and accuracy for no reason in some cases,
3. idiotic simple passes on manual missed by meters,
4. online gamers that button mach and spin your defense after 30 meter pinpoint passes with midfielder, leading to turns and one on ones,
5. too many one on ones,
6. lofty crosses,
7. online gamers that win every header cause they know the tricks,
8. too many tricks and shimmies that players need 4 meters of space to pull off(in real life, top players rarely try them and need less space when they do)
9. Pressing triangle with the keeper who is up to 5 meters closer to the ball is slow, and often forwards with a 5 meter disadvantage catch up to is and slot it home, wtf??
10. Online gamers that dribble past your whole team cause the whole "jockey" system is unrealistic and idiotic, what happened to closing down space and forcing the ballhandler a certain way by cutting off his pass or movement? Not in FIFA, trickery is the answer to it.
11. players that take up to 3 steps before doing what you pressed, by that time the chance is over. This forces you into pressing buttons before time and hoping he pulls it off, more button mashing.
12. Online gamers that pass BLINDLY into 4 of my defenders, only to have one of his forwards with a 2 meter disadvantage nip infront of everyone out of nowhere and control the ball. THIS PISSES ME OFF, LAWS OF PHYSICS EA!!
13. Ronaldo, and Man U all together.


So after nearly smashing my PS3 on numerous occassions and cursing FIFA (don't get me wrong, FIFA does some gameplay much better than PES, especially passing, but their player physics are atrocious) I went back to PES playing together with a mate recently.

What a releif, despite the passing issues, the wrong passes, limited movement, scripted scenarios, PES still felt like a football match.

Football should be easy to play, it's a smiple game of angles, movement, space. Technical skills and tricks helps throw defences, but movement and angles are paramount.

PES, and especially old school WE games like the superb WE6:FE did this so remarkably well, coupled with fantastic ball physics.

PES football, easy to play, hard to master.
FIFA football, hard to play, tricks needed to master.

Nobody online in the FIFA community beats me with clever football, just bullshit off the ball stuff that I cannot defend against, as I'm not controlling those players. Wheras I was seldom beaten in PES because I played football and thought 2 steps ahead, which is the type of game PES rewards. PES2009 is a step in the right direction, hopefully Konami can improve on it, GAMEPLAY baby, we want fluid football back.

Thanks to whoever took the time to read my rant :)
 
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Great thread guys;

I played PES on PS1 then Winning Eleven on PS2 from WE6-FE onwards(when I started on this forum), I always loved the feel of it , somethings that happened were so life like it was unbelievable. I spent 6 years as a Pro then another 12 as semi-pro so I could really appreciate how life like it was.
Now I'm nearly 38 with two young children and don't get the time anymore, I stuck with Winning Eleven 9 up until Novemeber last year when I finallt bought a PS3, having watched some uploaded videos on youtube I bought FIFA 09, it looked how I wanted a game to look. At first I sucked on it and put it down to years of only playing Winning Eleven. As the weeks went by I played it less and less, I just couldn't get into it. I took the plunge despite the critisms and bought PES 2009, whilst the gameplay isn't as good as the PS2 Winning Eleven games that I was hooked on, I'm certainly enjoying the game and it feels more rewarding than FIFA 09. There are a hundred ways PES can be improved upon including graphics, sound, gameplay. I dont understand that certain things have been reduced or removed since PS2 days, simple things like setting crowd levels to home and away, reduced number of stadiums, unlocking extra balls and kit designs. Why can we only inset one 50 second chant that is limited to a total of 64 in total?
Konami have the smaller fanbase and less money than EA but they need to deliver with PES2010. Whether they will take note of forums like this is another matter.
 
theCRO said:
Nice to see some familiar stories here. I was hooked on PES and WE games since the Nintendo days, im 29. Have been involved in patching, editing etc. when I found the time and overall played more hours of PES than I care to remember.

On the old school gamers FIFA debate, I must say that I have somewhat mixed feelings when assesing EA and Konami's latest efforts.

......

Thanks to whoever took the time to read my rant :)
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Great post, agree on all fronts.

To me it seems FIFA and PES have approached football from different angles. FIFA started as all style and no substance. Now it has added substance but still works with this original mantra intact, thus after extensive play testing the quirks start to show (as theCRO has listed).

PES by comparison started as a raw simulation with little style.
If you disagree with this go back and play PES1 and realise how bare bones the game was then. Seabass and co have tried to add flourish but in the process have lost their way a bit and perhaps forgotten what made their game so good in the first place.

Roll on '10 and fingers crossed.
 
theCRO said:
Thanks to whoever took the time to read my rant :)
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I took the time, it was a great read theCRO, I agree 110% pal.

I'm playing the Masterleague at the moment and I'm loving every second. I really truly believe that this incarnation forces you to play football as much as any previous, if not more so. PES 2009 is alot harder, and alot more unforgiving, you get nothing unless you deserve it. I have never ever been made to think about my football as I have in this game.

I think you really need to pick the right pass at the right time now, whether that be a normal pass on the deck, a hard pass or hard through ball ( missing out a player )or a through ball in the air. Some of the football I have played on this version has been nothing short of stunning. I'm loving the manual chipped pass as well, never used it until a few days ago, but already I've pulled off some unbelievable long balls with pace into space.

I totally agree with theCRO's point that you need to look 2-3 passes in advance with PES, and it rewards you for it. Also the very subtle skills and tricks that you can pull off are so much more realistic than anything I have seen on Fifa. They are hard to pull off, but thats exactly how it should be.

Of course there are still flaws in the game that piss me off, the auto defending when your not controlling the man does my head in. But all in all I'm very happy with the game and its physics. The amount of times I have sat back and watched the extended replays of certain plays and thought 'Wow, how real does that look by the way', is so many I have lost count.

If players try and play PES 2009 like they have in previous versions they will come unstuck. You really have to think about exactly what your doing in this version, and thats what I like about it so much. I have no problem with 90% of the passing. You just have to make sure that your player is capable, and also has his body at the correct angle to make sure you hit the pass you want. Just like in real life.

Anyway, I could go on forever .......
 
DIRTY SOUTH said:
I never played WE. I've always had it in my head though that it was slightly better then PES. Am i right?
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Winning Eleven 6 Final Evolution was arguably Konami's greatest work to date. I owned all the WE series as well as the PES series. I always looked forward to the WE games, they usually came along six months prior to the release of the lastest PES game. It was always nice to see what improvements Konami had made, and they usually had a glimpse of what the new PES title may well be about.

Does anyone remember the patch for one of the Winning 11 games that had the Istanbul theme to it ? That was unreal.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Winning Eleven 9 Final Evolution was arguably Konami's greatest work to date. I owned all the WE series as well as the PES series. I always looked forward to the WE games, they usually came along six months prior to the release of the lastest PES game. It was always nice to see what improvements Konami had made, and they usually have a glimpse of what the new PES title may well be about.

Does anyone remember the patch for one of the Winning 11 games that had the Istanbul theme to it ? That was unreal.
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I loved WE but WE8LWE (I think) was the last PES/WE I have played to any extent...
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
angle to make sure you hit the pass you want. Just like in real life.

Anyway, I could go on forever .......
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I know how u feel mate :D

Good post, if u slow down your attacks in PES, wait for support and time your chips and passes, so many realistic sitations happen that it's remenescent of PS1 raw mechanics days.

I think PES2010 will be another step in the right direction, cause this is miles ahead of the poor excuse they called pes2008..
 
Joystick said:
Great post, agree on all fronts.

To me it seems FIFA and PES have approached football from different angles. FIFA started as all style and no substance. Now it has added substance but still works with this original mantra intact, thus after extensive play testing the quirks start to show (as theCRO has listed).

PES by comparison started as a raw simulation with little style.
If you disagree with this go back and play PES1 and realise how bare bones the game was then. Seabass and co have tried to add flourish but in the process have lost their way a bit and perhaps forgotten what made their game so good in the first place.

Roll on '10 and fingers crossed.
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Great post, they are arriving at the crossroads but the team that always had realistic football, movement and physics as the core of theor engine has still got the edge, and will likely not lose it because the latest FIFA was received with glowing accelades from it's fans, EA will not get rid of the dumb L1 plus analogue stick trick system or the L2 plus release jockey system which has NO PLACE in real football.

Real football does not require players to hit a turbo button in order to outsprint people. This should depend on starting stance, angle in relation to ball and opponent and accellaration and speed stats, not some jockey press release system that makes a mockery of the 3 meter head start I have only to have it nipped away by Berbatov or some such cock.
 
lets all just be honest here. Pro Evo will always be King. FIFA will never overtake that as they are commited to providing football for the masses (and that means flashy, arcade style football) which lacks substence.
I draw the same comparison between NBA2k9 and Live. 2k will always have the edge because its Sim.

Sim players will always recognise that EA cant satisfy their needs with something that doesnt resemble what actually happens in a football game (highlighted by how poorly FIFA replicates aspects of real football, posted by the above users)

Sure, PES has its faults - but we can overlook them because we know it will get better with each release and because deep down in your heart you know FIFA isnt realistic - once the flash of FIFA and the licenses wears off, you are still left with a poor excuse for a sim game of football
 
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