FIFA 11 Demo Impressions XBOX360/PS3

Placebo said:
Thing that put me off PES is the unskippable 10 minute video after every match, utter pisstake, played the demo once and no way I'm going to load it again when Konami obviously have such utter contempt for my time. Guess I'll try the PC demo at some point with the team unlocker etc.
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Yeah, that was straight up evil to do that, but if you quit out of the demo and restart it's a pretty quick process and I think it makes up for that with 10 min halves. I'd rather FIFA done the same than stick us with these ultra short haves.

Dryzer said:
Mate there is very little i can do in giving it a chance if the keeper does a massive gaff and the cpu blasts it into his own net.
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I guess I would suggest that if keepers aren't patched in the final release, then that'd possibly be a game breaker, but as this is just a demo I'm willing to look beyond the gaffes to get a feel for the bigger picture. If some things aren't patched, konami will be in for some trouble - dunno if you know about it but there's an exploit where you can dribble down the touchline at regular speed and send in a cross without the defenders ever attempting to tackle you!

In all honesty there's just as many if not more flaws in FIFA, like the refs now not knowing what constitutes offsides(!), but I know the final release is never the same as the demo so I'm still playing it just to come to grips with the new changes and again get a feeling for the bigger picture.
 
Placebo said:
Thing that put me off PES is the unskippable 10 minute video after every match, utter pisstake, played the demo once and no way I'm going to load it again when Konami obviously have such utter contempt for my time. Guess I'll try the PC demo at some point with the team unlocker etc.
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On the other hand, it is a 10 minute match with full tactical options and no enforced penalties if you draw, which, if you score one, is a guaranteed win ;)

It's a bit emotional in both forums at the moment, which (max) is my reasoning for waiting as I know my current thoughts will do some fair old stirring. Besides I've not played the FIFA 11 demo enough as I just can't get on with the half length and I know I don't have long to wait for a copy to land on my doorstep, so I may as well play the one I'm enjoying and get stuck into the other one later.
 
Placebo said:
Thing that put me off PES is the unskippable 10 minute video after every match, utter pisstake, played the demo once and no way I'm going to load it again when Konami obviously have such utter contempt for my time. Guess I'll try the PC demo at some point with the team unlocker etc.
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If you go back to the dashboard and boot up the demo again when a match finishes, you can start another one within a couple of minutes.

I'd much rather have to do that than have 2 or 3 minute halves and hardly any tactical options as in the FIFA demo...
 
Yep of course I can quit, load it again, set everything up again and start another match, but I shouldn't have to and frankly for a game that's supposed to win me over I find such a PR miss by them inexcusable, yes Fifa is only 3 min halves but I can start a new team match in seconds or just click rematch after rematch after rematch if I like.
 
romagnoli said:
On the other hand, it is a 10 minute match with full tactical options and no enforced penalties if you draw, which, if you score one, is a guaranteed win ;)

It's a bit emotional in both forums at the moment, which (max) is my reasoning for waiting as I know my current thoughts will do some fair old stirring.
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Do it, we love the drama! :D
 
Placebo said:
I never draw in the Fifa demo, I just score an OG on >87 ;)
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Exactly what I do, though I hate it when the other team insists on their crunching tackles and get to me before I can score on myself!

But that highlights a major issue I'm having with FIFA - about 80% of my matches end in 0-0 draws!
 
LOL Placebo is just like me. Regarding PES2011... I was really sour when my keeper stood there and let a shot ping off his leg and go in... I'll wait until the final game to give my full opinion on whether PES is truly back or not. I think some here are getting carried away with the "it's either PES or FIFA" stance this year. I've seen way more glaring errors in that PES Demo than in FIFA's this year. Naughty things that were in FIFA10 are rearing their head in PES2011 like top class defenders being nut-megged on simple-as throughballs just to allow for fluid passing.

As I said though, a large majority are enjoying the demo's and i'm not here to piss on anyone's bonfire so i'll wait to the final game before delivering a blow-for-blow on what's good,bad and needs to be improved.
 
gameklip said:
LOL Placebo is just like me. Regarding PES2011... I was really sour when my keeper stood there and let a shot ping off his leg and go in... I'll wait until the final game to give my full opinion on whether PES is truly back or not. I think some here are getting carried away with the "it's either PES or FIFA" stance this year. I've seen way more glaring errors in that PES Demo than in FIFA's this year. Naughty things that were in FIFA10 are rearing their head in PES2011 like top class defenders being nut-megged on simple-as throughballs just to allow for fluid passing.

As I said though, a large majority are enjoying the demo's and i'm not here to piss on anyone's bonfire so i'll wait to the final game before delivering a blow-for-blow on what's good,bad and needs to be improved.
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Yep, both games have their shortcomings. What I'm seeing is PES seems to be suffering from quite a few programming errors, like the massive dribbling exploit now being discussed, while FIFA still suffers from underlying flaws, like its over-emphasis on physicality and tackling. Good news for FIFA is the demo is 6 week old code or else I'd be more concerned.

On a side note, anyone else bothered by how players accelerate too quickly when you press the standing tackle button? So, for example, I line my defender up with the dribbler who is, say, about five yards away, I mash the tackle button and not only does my guy home-in on the dribbler but he does so at almost sprint speed. The result, I find, is the dribbler then has little chance to evade, and I think this is a MAJOR reason for why the game is playing like a tackle fest to many of us, and why the game feels unbalanced in favor of the defense.

Thoughts?
 
I hardly use the X button. I either use a combination of movement and the jockey button and try to time my rush to push the ball away or nick it off the attacker or I'll slide tackle. As a last resort I'll use X when I'm desperate. I do really miss PES' system where a button press actually means the player will stick his leg out, instead of just barging in to the opposition. It's so poor when you think about it! Thankfulyl the sliding tackles are pretty great now, you also end up doing a "standing/stick your leg out" tackle if you are close enough. So maybe the system now is "slidetackle" button is an actual attempt to kick the ball while X is just to pressure.
 
It has no feeling, it's not remotely compelling, there's nothing to make me look forward to the next time I play it. Every match is the same. I play a single 3 minute match, lose interest and turn on PES instead. I have been trying it once each day to see if it grows on me, but it's doing the opposite. It gets worse with each passing day.

PES has some pretty major flaws, it should be called PES (unfinished), but FIFA should be called FIFA (finished), because for all it's clearly the more complete product, they've done something to it that has killed the gameplay.

Am actually starting to have second thoughts about buying this for the online play. Always really enjoyed FIFA10 for 10v10, but if PES finally gets decent online play, then it's another nail in the FIFA coffin.
 
I'm 100% sure I'll more than ever enjoy the 1v1 games against people who try to play football properly, but I can see 90% of my games ending in tacklefests, pressure abuse and all-round frustration.

For all the manual v assisted debates we've seen the biggest issue (for me at least) has barely been mentioned at all, assisted defending (probably because you can't turn it off or choose something else). Get rid of that retarded pressure button and reintroduce a standing tackle button.
 
TikTikTikTikTik said:
I hardly use the X button. I either use a combination of movement and the jockey button and try to time my rush to push the ball away or nick it off the attacker or I'll slide tackle. As a last resort I'll use X when I'm desperate. I do really miss PES' system where a button press actually means the player will stick his leg out, instead of just barging in to the opposition. It's so poor when you think about it! Thankfulyl the sliding tackles are pretty great now, you also end up doing a "standing/stick your leg out" tackle if you are close enough. So maybe the system now is "slidetackle" button is an actual attempt to kick the ball while X is just to pressure.
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Why on earth wouldn't you use the tackle button, especially when it's so effective and easy to use? I guess the game plays out in a more realistic tempo when you don't but when you have such short halves (and the bastardly CPU defenders are so efficient tacklers themselves!) the game sort of pushes you towards rush tactics. I did notice the slide-tackle will now be standing tackle sometimes when you're too close, which is neat, but it only makes tackling even easier!

First you say you only use the d-pad, now you say you avoid using the tackle button - next you'll be telling us you don't bother using the shoot button!

Steekbal said:
For all the manual v assisted debates we've seen the biggest issue (for me at least) has barely been mentioned at all, assisted defending (probably because you can't turn it off or choose something else). Get rid of that retarded pressure button and reintroduce a standing tackle button.
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SO TRUE! You're absolutely right - with all the attention assisted passing and PP get, the thing hurting the game more for me is assisted tackling!
 
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Is there only me eho has noticed the collison detection problem in PES. That would be a game breaker for me on its own if it isnt fixed in the final version. In the 6 unberable games ive played i must have seen several fouls where there was clearly no contact although there was meant to be. You have to zoom in to see it it but its there. Im sure this was a problem in one of the earlier pes's too.

FIFA for me is now gorwing more and more. If you play gung ho and try and charge past people it will look like a wrestling match. If you stop and not be affaid to play back to create space then you will open up the game more.

Personality thing is noticable to..especially Roanldo..loads of flair.
And people going on about perfect first touches. Put it on manual and do a full power pass to one of your players and see if he controls it perfectly. And that is just one example.
 
Played some more games. Could it be that the new ground pass (R1 + O) is assisted even if you choose to play with everything on semi and manual? It feels this way because it doesn't really matter how long you press the button. I'm not sure but it feels assisted to me.
 
Not a fan of the knock-on button (R3) AT ALL. I don't expect it to work out all the time, but at least let me knock it ahead in close quarters and if I lose it, then I lose it. Tired of seeing defenders catch out a knock-on touch when they were previously coming in to smash me off of the ball. Everything about that steal animation is scripted.

And I really hope EA tweak the manner in which defenders can STILL catch up to attacking players. If Ronnie Ron Possible (Cron) gets past Terry on the wing, I'd imagine it's up to Alex/Bosingwa/Ivanovic/Essien/Mikel or whoever is in the center to try and cut him off. NOT for Terry to gain the ability, after turning, to accelerate at near super human speeds to catch me again. I also think another part of that is CPU-controlled players not making support run when you're running down the wing and into the box. Can't tell you how many times I've had nobody to pass to in the middle of the 18.
 
Murkurial said:
Not a fan of the knock-on button (R3) AT ALL. I don't expect it to work out all the time, but at least let me knock it ahead in close quarters and if I lose it, then I lose it. Tired of seeing defenders catch out a knock-on touch when they were previously coming in to smash me off of the ball. Everything about that steal animation is scripted.

And I really hope EA tweak the manner in which defenders can STILL catch up to attacking players. If Ronnie Ron Possible (Cron) gets past Terry on the wing, I'd imagine it's up to Alex/Bosingwa/Ivanovic/Essien/Mikel or whoever is in the center to try and cut him off. NOT for Terry to gain the ability, after turning, to accelerate at near super human speeds to catch me again. I also think another part of that is CPU-controlled players not making support run when you're running down the wing and into the box. Can't tell you how many times I've had nobody to pass to in the middle of the 18.
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I've been playing more FIFA11 Demo, and the one thing that stands out for me currently is the unbalanced defending/attacking. In Fifa10 and World Cup the attackers had an advantage against the defenders. Most noticeably attackers with the ball in possession were able to move more quickly, or as quickly, as defenders.

Now, it seems reversed. If I have the ball and try to cut in-field to sprint past a defender, my player will be moving so sluggishly, it seems like I am not holding the sprint button at all, while the defender will just sort of slide in effortlessly and catch up with my player. If my player is controlling the ball he should loose some speed and agility, but when the ball has been knocked ahead or when running more quickly, the payer isn't controlling the ball, just basically running after it. For him to suddenly to look as if he has just run full speed across the pitch seems completely non-sensical. He's not even tired judging by the stamina bar.

Playing on World Class difficulty I've managed to score 2 goals in 2 hours of playing. I really hope this is tweaked from Demo to final game, because the imbalance sticks out like an unrealistic sore thumb after just some playing. Surely the devs will spot this aswell.

Also I am not sure I like the keepers, they need to be toned down about 7-10%, it looks ridiculous when they fly out to CATCH a hard shot that was even missing by 2 meters, sure it's Petr Cech but come on, the animation shouldn't slide him along the ground to get him an extra meter closer to the ball without his legs moving. Overall reaction times seem fine though.

And shots generally, or atleast for the cleaner strikes, really need alot more zip to them, and I mean in the "add 20%" + range, not just a tad. Even on Normal Game speed when looking at a replay the ball really looks like it weighs twice what it does, and as if the player really has problems getting it up to speed when shooting it.

Also, I still see so many 90 degree turns without the player in possession of the ball loosing any speed, or needing to move in a wider arc than the ball to get round the tight turn. His body starts to shift angle of movement before any leg has even had the chance to move him against the ground.

Not sure how many 3 minute 0-0 games of frustrating defender-packed standing-tackle mess I can stand. Anyone else feel the same way, or am I missing something? Reading people who say scoring is easy, what difficulty do you play on, because on World Class 0-0 is the default score, and you always seem to face a tight 2-man CB pair, with a defensive player always moving in on your player as soon as you pass to him. Longshots for me are non-existant, because there is absolute no space in front of goal unless perhaps on a breakaway, but even then the slow players in possession are so easily hunted down and dispossessed.
 
mfmaxpower said:
Dryzer, you say you don't see the realistic AI which surprises me, what exactly do you see that isn't realistic? Some people say off the ball movement isn't as good but I disagree - it's just different than how it's done in FIFA and takes some getting use to, but in many ways it's more intelligent, subtle, and sneaky!
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I flat-out disagree. There are so many times in the PES demo when I expect a teammate to make a move into obvious space to help me out by creating an angle for the pass, but he doesn't have a clue. I'm not expecting a 'FIFA run', I'm expecting a movement that a player would make in real football. It's not because it's different, and I don't believe I'm missing secret signs. They make unnatural decisions.

Perhaps someone could show me an example of it being subtle and sneaky, so I can understand it better.

Robbery said:
Played some more games. Could it be that the new ground pass (R1 + O) is assisted even if you choose to play with everything on semi and manual? It feels this way because it doesn't really matter how long you press the button. I'm not sure but it feels assisted to me.
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Yep, hugely assisted. I added it to the Demo Issues thread.
 
I believe the lack of off the ball movement in PES is due to poor player stats. There are a few stats which decide off the ball movement, including attack, aggression and mentality. Player cards can have influence as well.

Attack stat determines how well a player can position himself in an attacking position. Aggression determines how often and aggressively a player will make a run forward, and finally mentality is required for those long and frequent runs. Having played a bit of PES 10 I also felt off the ball movement was terrible, but after playing at a friend who used modified stats from pesstatsdatabase I thought it was much better and playable. Will be interesting to fiddle around with player stats once I get my hands on the full game.

So yeah, FIFA. Hit a rough patch, not really enjoying it at the moment.
 
nerf said:
I flat-out disagree. There are so many times in the PES demo when I expect a teammate to make a move into obvious space to help me out by creating an angle for the pass, but he doesn't have a clue. I'm not expecting a 'FIFA run', I'm expecting a movement that a player would make in real football. It's not because it's different, and I don't believe I'm missing secret signs. They make unnatural decisions.

Perhaps someone could show me an example of it being subtle and sneaky, so I can understand it better.
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Agreed. This aspect is just plain bad. It stands out like a sore thumb. I've had situations where I've been on a break down a wing and 3 of my team-mates have broken forward with me, but all hugged the same side of the pitch as me. I slowed down/stop to wait for them to make some runs, they all just suddenly stopped huddled around me like a flock of sheep.

Not sure if tactical setting take care of this (although that absolutely should not be required to make them do the most fundamental of things), but if not, definitely one of the first thing for Seabass to look at.
 
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Trance_Allstar said:
I've been playing more FIFA11 Demo, and the one thing that stands out for me currently is the unbalanced defending/attacking. In Fifa10 and World Cup the attackers had an advantage against the defenders. Most noticeably attackers with the ball in possession were able to move more quickly, or as quickly, as defenders.

Now, it seems reversed. If I have the ball and try to cut in-field to sprint past a defender, my player will be moving so sluggishly, it seems like I am not holding the sprint button at all, while the defender will just sort of slide in effortlessly and catch up with my player. If my player is controlling the ball he should loose some speed and agility, but when the ball has been knocked ahead or when running more quickly, the payer isn't controlling the ball, just basically running after it. For him to suddenly to look as if he has just run full speed across the pitch seems completely non-sensical. He's not even tired judging by the stamina bar.

Playing on World Class difficulty I've managed to score 2 goals in 2 hours of playing. I really hope this is tweaked from Demo to final game, because the imbalance sticks out like an unrealistic sore thumb after just some playing. Surely the devs will spot this aswell.

Also I am not sure I like the keepers, they need to be toned down about 7-10%, it looks ridiculous when they fly out to CATCH a hard shot that was even missing by 2 meters, sure it's Petr Cech but come on, the animation shouldn't slide him along the ground to get him an extra meter closer to the ball without his legs moving. Overall reaction times seem fine though.

And shots generally, or atleast for the cleaner strikes, really need alot more zip to them, and I mean in the "add 20%" + range, not just a tad. Even on Normal Game speed when looking at a replay the ball really looks like it weighs twice what it does, and as if the player really has problems getting it up to speed when shooting it.

Also, I still see so many 90 degree turns without the player in possession of the ball loosing any speed, or needing to move in a wider arc than the ball to get round the tight turn. His body starts to shift angle of movement before any leg has even had the chance to move him against the ground.

Not sure how many 3 minute 0-0 games of frustrating defender-packed standing-tackle mess I can stand. Anyone else feel the same way, or am I missing something? Reading people who say scoring is easy, what difficulty do you play on, because on World Class 0-0 is the default score, and you always seem to face a tight 2-man CB pair, with a defensive player always moving in on your player as soon as you pass to him. Longshots for me are non-existant, because there is absolute no space in front of goal unless perhaps on a breakaway, but even then the slow players in possession are so easily hunted down and dispossessed.
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There is not a single word you wrote that I disagree with - right now FIFA is a frustrating unbalanced 0-0 tacklefest. So much potential but really frustrating, at least to me. I play on manual control settings, though sometimes semi passing when things aren't going well and I range anywhere between Pro and Legendary.

I have no problems dominating possession or completing passes. Defending is a breeze on any difficulty level while I struggle to create quality scoring chances before getting bum-rushed by a defender, even on Pro difficulty. When i am able to pull something awesome off it is beautiful but more often than not the game is a midfield Sumo fight. The trick very well could be to focus on patient and slow buildup, but I'm finding that difficult with three minute halves and a tackling system that mimics a heat-seeking missile.

You my friend are not alone.

nerf said:
I flat-out disagree. There are so many times in the PES demo when I expect a teammate to make a move into obvious space to help me out by creating an angle for the pass, but he doesn't have a clue. I'm not expecting a 'FIFA run', I'm expecting a movement that a player would make in real football. It's not because it's different, and I don't believe I'm missing secret signs. They make unnatural decisions.

Perhaps someone could show me an example of it being subtle and sneaky, so I can understand it better.
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Hmm. Yeah I do notice the times players don't make the runs I'd expect them to make and there are some glaring programming errors in the game that are laughable, but all I can honestly say is that I've played FIFA exclusively since 08 and I'm having no problems with the AI in PES. I think FIFA has improved this year but, despite a few flaws, I feel the PES AI to exhibit an underlying intelligence not there in FIFA. But that's just my opinion and I'm not going to be one of the guys who says it's not a problem with the game and you're just not seeing it - theres enough people with a similar opinion that the issue shouldn't just be written off. What's the point in having a great feature if only a few hardcore fans can recognize it after all.

In regards to the subtle movements, what I've begin to notice that made me write that is sometimes I'll see a wing player, rather than make a run at full sprint, instead take a few steps forward but then hesitate back if the pass doesn't come quickly - if you miss his slight indication that he wants the ball played to space, the opportunity has passed. I've also seen a player raise a hand and if you're not looking in the right area of the screen it's easy to miss. Sometimes it is just a leaning of the torso to indicate their ready to make a run. I will admit though that I really do miss not having a player run button.
 
Trance_Allstar said:
Not sure how many 3 minute 0-0 games of frustrating defender-packed standing-tackle mess I can stand. Anyone else feel the same way, or am I missing something?
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I feel the same. I can't get a shot on goal most of the time. There is no space at all and no time on the ball. Again it feels like your opponent is playing with 13 players. I fight double teams all the time.

There is no fun. Playing again this super perfect fantastic CPU is frustrating again. Maybe it depends on the 3 mins half but i doubt it. I bet playing with Bayern against a second Division team will be like playing with Bayern against Barca. It's disappointing. I was hoping they get it right this time or better at least. But it is still a fight against perfect supermens.
 
Robbery said:
I bet playing with Bayern against a second Division team will be like playing with Bayern against Barca. It's disappointing. I was hoping they get it right this time or better at least. But it is still a fight against perfect supermens.
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No it's not! You can try this out in the demo! Just put the reserve weakest players in the starting eleven of your opponent and enjoy... ;)
 
Scorpio said:
No it's not! You can try this out in the demo! Just put the reserve weakest players in the starting eleven of your opponent and enjoy... ;)
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Hmmm. Ok, i will. And you really see a difference? That would be so great.

In FIFA 10 i hate playing against weaker teams (like second Div. teams) because they play all like Barca. So every game is a fight you don't have easy games at all. So stupid.

Tomorrow i will test the reserve players. Please let it be different.
 
Scorpio said:
No it's not! You can try this out in the demo! Just put the reserve weakest players in the starting eleven of your opponent and enjoy... ;)
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Yeah, certainly in WC2010, the weakest nations in Europe (San Marino, Andorra, et al) were noticably easier than the top sides.

But with FIFA11, they seem to have made the top sides even more perfect. It's when I play a long ball over the top of the cpu defense and their defender immediately turns 180, instantly up to full speed, runs and collects the ball perfectly as it lands, with instant control, then proceeds to instantly turn and do amazing dribbles with everything perfect, before playing a perfect pass....it's utter gash. And that's not to mention the cpu perfect tackling/barging system. Wtf are they thinking releasing this heap of crap.

Playing on the furthest zoomed out cam (co-op), where all the player slook smallest, it's reminds me too much of SWOS. It's out-and-out arcade.
 
Nick Cave said:
You then have at least a few days of editing the ground names, adding missing players, then there are the chants...:SHOCK::P
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I might rename a stadium or 2, but can't be bothered with much else. Hopefully pinch chants from someone else :)

Tho I think my virtual pro will get hid own custom chant :)
 
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