FIFA 11 Demo Impressions XBOX360/PS3
- Thread starter TikTikTikTikTik
- Start date
winston
Champions League
- 7 August 2005
Agreed. It's perplexing how they had a game that seemed to be reasonably good last year, with relatively minor tweaking, has become such a dud. Worst in current-gen series, definitely.
And all this just as PES finally becomes playable again. But I'm already seeing Seabass's nasty tricks all to frequently and the bad memories are coming back of when PES was the only game to play and enduring the endless cpu cheats became intolerable.
For a while, I thought this year was going to be a celebration of 2 good footy games, instead, it's really disappointing.
PES gets my vote, and money, this year, but I really hope they finally have decent on-line play, as playing against cpu is not something I can see being bearable for too many hours before I eventually
nerf
Forming triangles
I've seen the pointing, the stepping and the leaning. Those only really apply to when you want to lead a player by timing a through ball to match his potential run. My problem is with the simple (non-)act of not naturally spreading into space that is there. I don't miss the player run button because it's not a forward run that I'm wanting to trigger, it's mostly lateral. Creating sensible spacing between teammates and not ignoring that empty grass on the flanks so much.
After approx 5+ hours of the PES demo I just can't subscribe to this claim that the PES AI is deeper and more subtle than people used to FIFA can recognise. There's nothing subtle about standing in an inopportune position while there's obvious and very reasonable space a short distance away (especially when other teammates are stood in the same position). There's nothing sneaky about leaning as if to make a run into empty grass, and then deciding not to just because the pass didn't come first, when in reality it makes the most sense to be moving there anyway instead of standing where they're marked.
That's how I see it, and it's a major reason why I'm not interested in the full version of PES2011 after persevering with the demo. I should probably stop banging on about it, before I'm accused of being wantonly negative about Expander's perfect PES... and maybe because this thread is supposed to be about FIFA
After approx 5+ hours of the PES demo I just can't subscribe to this claim that the PES AI is deeper and more subtle than people used to FIFA can recognise. There's nothing subtle about standing in an inopportune position while there's obvious and very reasonable space a short distance away (especially when other teammates are stood in the same position). There's nothing sneaky about leaning as if to make a run into empty grass, and then deciding not to just because the pass didn't come first, when in reality it makes the most sense to be moving there anyway instead of standing where they're marked.
That's how I see it, and it's a major reason why I'm not interested in the full version of PES2011 after persevering with the demo. I should probably stop banging on about it, before I'm accused of being wantonly negative about Expander's perfect PES... and maybe because this thread is supposed to be about FIFA
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Don't you think that's a tad harsh? Especially considering the game is 6-week old code? If you think all was needed was minor tweaking, can't that be done between the demo and final release? I'm sure hoping so!
Funny - I hated 10 and thought it was the worst (so far) of the current-gen series (though my impressions could be severely tarnished by my experiences with MM last year!) while I've enjoyed playing the WC game. But what is it that makes this game seem worse than 10?
Again, if the final version is not tweaked in some key areas, I'll likely be playing PES this year, but I'm not so certain we're past the point of no return here. So are you saying you think the demo is THAT bad there's little hope in your eyes the final can't be quality?
(Also keep in mind PES will hopefully be a little more polished in its final version too.)
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
I've seen the pointing, the stepping and the leaning. Those only really apply to when you want to lead a player by timing a through ball to match his potential run. My problem is with the simple (non-)act of not naturally spreading into space that is there. I don't miss the player run button because it's not a forward run that I'm wanting to trigger, it's mostly lateral. Creating sensible spacing between teammates and not ignoring that empty grass on the flanks so much.
After approx 5+ hours of the PES demo I just can't subscribe to this claim that the PES AI is deeper and more subtle than people used to FIFA can recognise. There's nothing subtle about standing in an inopportune position while there's obvious and very reasonable space a short distance away (especially when other teammates are stood in the same position). There's nothing sneaky about leaning as if to make a run into empty grass, and then deciding not to just because the pass didn't come first, when in reality it makes the most sense to be moving there anyway instead of standing where they're marked.
That's how I see it, and it's a major reason why I'm not interested in the full version of PES2011 after persevering with the demo. I should probably stop banging on about it, before I'm accused of being wantonly negative about Expander's perfect PES... and maybe because this thread is supposed to be about FIFA
I think I see where you're coming from, and I'll agree with you that FIFA's off the ball movement may prove to be better than in PES, although now that we know BOTH demos aren't final code, hopefully this will be improved in PES. In general I have been quite happy with the improvements made to off the ball movement in the FIFA demo, and I really enjoy seeing the like of Dani Alves making his trademark runs up the right flank. I've also like how attack minded central midfielders, like Fabregas, will make runs up the center into the box - that has been one of my biggest gripes with player movement in the past. Still, it will be interesting to see how the relationship between player personality and team tactics is done - will I be able to limit Alves' runs if I want to or will I be able to make a more defense-minded fullback make more frequent forward runs, etc.
I agree with a little too much "flat-footedness" going on in PES, and not only in player movement. Sometimes players just refuse to respond to the ball! Examples include not attempting to make interceptions or go after a loose ball that rolls right under their noses. In one of my most recent games, the ball deflecting and banged off one of my player's legs, without him ever reacting at all! I can see what you mean about not enough player movement in general though, and I think it's kinda bullshit to expect to have to go into team tactics to make players move like they would in real life, no matter the situation of the game. Though the sneaky leans I referred to occur when a player is testing an offsides trap, not just any empty space. I should have clarified. Nonetheless, I have to be honest that in general player movement hasn't been enough an issue to ruin the gameplay for me.
In fact, the reason I'm currently reaching for the PES demo before the FIFA demo is because the emphasis on overly aggressive physicality and ease at which tackles can overpower dribblers IS ruining the FIFA gameplay for me. In PES, at least, I feel the balance to be much more realistic, and the ebb and flow of matches a more enjoyable experience. Passes go astray, interceptions are made, tackles occur, skilled players can evade defenders - it all seems much more in balance as it should be. The physical interaction between players isn't near enough nor 360 like FIFA, but the gameplay still resembles a real life match more in PES to me.
There's still time for tweaks to be made before final release, and I'm sure it will be better, but how much I don't know. A worry I have is that EA may have overdone it with their new 360 Physicality feature - 360 interactions between players is an AWESOME addition to the game (and genre) but it shouldn't come at the expense of other areas of the game, like skillful play. Just because you can do something doesn't mean that's all you should do. Right now the demo more resembles a "brutal game" than a "beautiful game!"
Guess I'm just crap at the game, good for me as I'll get lots of enjoyment out of itPressing tackles are easier than sliding ones yes but I still mistime them a fair bit and give away freekicks or get avoided.
So do I, guess we're just getting old. I absolutely love the demo and can't wait for the full game!
AlaaEG
Crunching
- 29 September 2007
How old?
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
I'll be 38 by the time Fifa11's out 
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Anyone else noticing this - teammates rarely, if ever, check to passes?
IRL if my teammate passes to me I move toward the pass rather than wait for the pass to arrive (for ground passes). In FIFA this doesn't happen as it should and thus defenders, who will move toward the pass, make easy interceptions. IRL if I stood around with my hand down my pants waiting for a pass to arrive, I wouldn't make it off the bench.
It's starting to really piss me off, the amount of times I pass to an open teammate but he doesn't react as he should to the pass, and the defender that is BEHIND him runs past for the interception.
Am I doing something wrong or is this a flaw in the AI?
IRL if my teammate passes to me I move toward the pass rather than wait for the pass to arrive (for ground passes). In FIFA this doesn't happen as it should and thus defenders, who will move toward the pass, make easy interceptions. IRL if I stood around with my hand down my pants waiting for a pass to arrive, I wouldn't make it off the bench.
It's starting to really piss me off, the amount of times I pass to an open teammate but he doesn't react as he should to the pass, and the defender that is BEHIND him runs past for the interception.
Am I doing something wrong or is this a flaw in the AI?
You need to see what the recipient of the pass is doing. Is he running to beat the defensive line? Then don't play the normal pass but try the through ball or search for another option if to difficult. It's all about momentum in this game. Think what happens IRL...
What are your settings for switching players?
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
I'm talking about a player standing still, looking right at you, like a CF. As the pass is moving towards him, he remains standing still rather than move to receive the pass, as he would IRL.
AlaaEG
Crunching
- 29 September 2007
Well, that's very old for a 2002 member.33
I'll be 38 by the time Fifa11's out
I'm 41 right now, and will be 44 by the time i score my first goal
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
Just played Juve reserves v Arsenal reserves, completely different game, try it
All the goals I score in this demo and the situations that seem to happen in this demo just seem generic and unrealistic, the same story over and over and over again. Disappointed, again (I liked 09 but got bored easily with 10). The game plays like a machine, it seems far to static and scripted.
Its back to PES for me this year!
Its back to PES for me this year!
R
Rob92
Guest
Same with me - almost none of the goals, or goalscoring opportunities look realistic at all on FIFA.All the goals I score in this demo and the situations that seem to happen in this demo just seem generic and unrealistic, the same story over and over and over again. Disappointed, again (I liked 09 but got bored easily with 10). The game plays like a machine, it seems far to static and scripted.
Its back to PES for me this year!
Yes, there is "freedom" in this game if you want to take the term literally - you can move in any direction and pass in any direction when you have the ball on manual controls...
But this "freedom" is negated by the ease and over-physical nature of the defending, it almost forces you to take the simplest option to the player in the most space on every single pass, as it's the only way to keep the ball.
On PES, the "freedom" of controls may not quite be the same, due to the manual passing not being quite so consistent and straightforward (which I think is realistic) but I feel much more able to improvise and be creative to make goalscoring chances, even without using the manual passing.
You can keep the ball in tight spaces with your first touch (especially with technical players) which immediately gives you passing options than on FIFA, plus you have much more time on the ball without defenders homing in on you for all 90 minutes, giving you the time to analyze the situation, and pick the right pass, rather than just offloading the ball like a hot potato all the time just to keep possession...
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mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Just played Juve reserves v Arsenal reserves, completely different game, try it
How did you do this - can't you only change the team you're controlling pre-match?
To the guys above saying all the goals feel the same, I know what you guys are saying but I'm not sure I agree. You may be right and I can't explain it - I'm sort of torn, if it makes any sense, between logic telling me gameplay and goals are as varied as the possibilities are, which with (near) 360 degree freedom and manual controls should be numerous, but on the other hand I get this feeling that goals are a bit forced and come from limited situations.
Maybe it's down to not having enough time and space to play the way I'd like to, so the goals tend to come from a limited few strategies or scenarios that I've become accustomed to and somewhat efficient at exploiting. I know where you guys are coming from, I just can't put my finger on what's going on...?
nerf
Forming triangles
Goals? Most of my demo matches end 0-0. I try and play a slow passing game and time runs out . And that's with the Beginner time tip thing.
Played a few games tonight, just trying to concentrate on keeping possession in a crowded midfield with Song/Wilshere/Fabregas. RT Shield is your friend, seems way more effective than it used to be. You can activate it sooner (i.e. when moving slowly, not fully stationary) and I think it does a better job of turning and protecting now. Getting in the habit of LT slow dribbling and RT shielding a lot, as well as adopting the mindset of protecting the ball with the body rather than always passing/evading, does help in those congested areas... as does having Cesc in your team.
. And that's with the Beginner time tip thing.Played a few games tonight, just trying to concentrate on keeping possession in a crowded midfield with Song/Wilshere/Fabregas. RT Shield is your friend, seems way more effective than it used to be. You can activate it sooner (i.e. when moving slowly, not fully stationary) and I think it does a better job of turning and protecting now. Getting in the habit of LT slow dribbling and RT shielding a lot, as well as adopting the mindset of protecting the ball with the body rather than always passing/evading, does help in those congested areas... as does having Cesc in your team.
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Goals? Most of my demo matches end 0-0. I try and play a slow passing game and time runs out
Played a few games tonight, just trying to concentrate on keeping possession in a crowded midfield with Song/Wilshere/Fabregas. RT Shield is your friend, seems way more effective than it used to be. You can activate it sooner (i.e. when moving slowly, not fully stationary) and I think it does a better job of turning and protecting now. Getting in the habit of LT slow dribbling and RT shielding a lot, as well as adopting the mindset of protecting the ball with the body rather than always passing/evading, does help in those congested areas... as does having Cesc in your team.
Yeah, that's my other problem with goals - I don't see them that often!
I don't really get it, how are you shielding while moving with RT, since RT is also the sprint button?! And RT and LT is skilled dribbling! What dark magic are you up to?
R
Rob92
Guest
Holding RT without a direction stands still and shields the ball, LT on its own with a direction is slow dribbling. LT+RT is skill dribbling but it still seems to just perform an unpredictable bunch of unresponsive sidesteps and turns when I use it, making it too risky to be of any use on a consistent basis.
RT shielding is somewhat effective, but I think it looks ridiculous to have players shielding the ball like that all the time... LT slow dribbling is nothing like as natural and effective as the PES equivalent (RT close control).
RT shielding is somewhat effective, but I think it looks ridiculous to have players shielding the ball like that all the time... LT slow dribbling is nothing like as natural and effective as the PES equivalent (RT close control).
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nerf
Forming triangles
Not shielding while moving about, but initiating the shielding while not yet stationary. If you dribble and let go of the left thumbstick, your player doesn't stop instantly. So I'm talking about when you dribble near to an opponent, see him about to get within tackling range, and you release the left thumbstick then hold RT. Even though your player has momentum and is still on the move, he can enter the shielding animation and position himself to protect the ball sharpish. It can be a more secure way of defending yourself from a challenge rather than instinctively trying to evade (dribble past) the opponent and getting crushed by a tackler with a large tackle radius.
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gameklip
footy klip maestro
- 25 August 2006
- Tottenham Hotspur
Goals? Most of my demo matches end 0-0. I try and play a slow passing game and time runs out
Played a few games tonight, just trying to concentrate on keeping possession in a crowded midfield with Song/Wilshere/Fabregas. RT Shield is your friend, seems way more effective than it used to be. You can activate it sooner (i.e. when moving slowly, not fully stationary) and I think it does a better job of turning and protecting now. Getting in the habit of LT slow dribbling and RT shielding a lot, as well as adopting the mindset of protecting the ball with the body rather than always passing/evading, does help in those congested areas... as does having Cesc in your team.
Great post nerf. I can see here that you're trying to play it the proper way. I think there's a misconception about FIFA and it's mainly due to the lack of info on the controls and the amount of time EA gave us for the demo. It's no where near enough time to see the subtlteys of this years game.
For example, just now I was stuck on the left side with Villa vs Terry and just slowed down and turned slightly left (no LT Held) and when Terry flinched i flicked the right stick diagonally left slightly and he skinned Terry and and got into the box 1v1... Cech made an amazing save though (
). I got in the situation again but fluffed my lines going out too wide but with analogue run I was feathering RT and then just tried to tap the analogue stick forward (trying to time a turn). It completely did the guy. I'm going to try and upload that one now!!
gameklip
footy klip maestro
- 25 August 2006
- Tottenham Hotspur
I agree that it could be better but Arshavin with LT held is a beast if you time it right.
Oh i forgot to mention, i tried holding down the LT and RT buttons together when getting pressured by those ENGINE midfielders and it works really well for players like INIESTA and ARSHAVIN. In the arena it was crazy watching Arshavin pull all this stuff off by just moving various directions. I'll upload a couple vids.
oh and a celebration tip: if you hold "run" after you score you can evade your team mates. looks quality imo.
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mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
K, I see what you're saying. Shielding does work well, even better than before I feel and the shield animations are improved too I think, but it bothers me how frequent I seem to need to rely on it. At times I feel like it's pass -> shield -> pass -> shield -> pass... you get the picture.
Something I think FIFA has over PES is its controls are simple and intuitive, so I don't know how much an issue that is. Playing time in the demo is a different issue - what does it say about your game when you limit halves to a point that it emphasizes attack-attack-attack playstyles? I just don't get why they would do this.
Your example of Villa on the wing is exactly what I mean by this game can be both pure genius and total frustration - when I pull off a move like you describe, it is freakin awesome. My problem, however, is I don't feel in control of when stuff like that happens (not meaning to say it's scripted but that I can repeat moves when I want to), and more frequently than not a situation like you described results in me getting charged off the ball. It's like I've seen what this game is capable of, I just can't execute on a consistent level, resulting in broken controller syndrome. One moment I think I'm getting the hang of it, the next I'm getting butt-raped by defenders.
Great post nerf. I can see here that you're trying to play it the proper way. I think there's a misconception about FIFA and it's mainly due to the lack of info on the controls and the amount of time EA gave us for the demo. It's no where near enough time to see the subtlteys of this years game.
For example, just now I was stuck on the left side with Villa vs Terry and just slowed down and turned slightly left (no LT Held) and when Terry flinched i flicked the right stick diagonally left slightly and he skinned Terry and and got into the box 1v1... Cech made an amazing save though (
I'm going to try and upload that one now!!
Something I think FIFA has over PES is its controls are simple and intuitive, so I don't know how much an issue that is. Playing time in the demo is a different issue - what does it say about your game when you limit halves to a point that it emphasizes attack-attack-attack playstyles? I just don't get why they would do this.
Your example of Villa on the wing is exactly what I mean by this game can be both pure genius and total frustration - when I pull off a move like you describe, it is freakin awesome. My problem, however, is I don't feel in control of when stuff like that happens (not meaning to say it's scripted but that I can repeat moves when I want to), and more frequently than not a situation like you described results in me getting charged off the ball. It's like I've seen what this game is capable of, I just can't execute on a consistent level, resulting in broken controller syndrome. One moment I think I'm getting the hang of it, the next I'm getting butt-raped by defenders.
nerf
Forming triangles
The right thumbstick can be good in 1-v-1 situations like that if you use their momentum against them. This one below was a case of pressing up with the left thumbstick when the pass arrived (to angle my first-touch infield), then as Clichy stepped forward I slammed the right thumbstick 90 degrees and Messi left him for dead. Probably helps having Messi's agility and acceleration, I guess. Just thought it looked fairly cool.For example, just now I was stuck on the left side with Villa vs Terry and just slowed down and turned slightly left (no LT Held) and when Terry flinched i flicked the right stick diagonally left slightly and he skinned Terry and and got into the box 1v1... Cech made an amazing save though (
YouTube - FIFA11 Demo - Messi right thumbstick
Speaking of controls, I'm probably stating the obvious here, but not every 'knock on' with the right thumbstick is the same. A slight lean knocks the ball less far than pushing it all the way.
gameklip
footy klip maestro
- 25 August 2006
- Tottenham Hotspur
max:
1. regarding shielding, get the ball to the talented "ball control" guys on your team. They can escape most tackles but you have to recieve the ball aiming at your own goal so you don't plough straight into a lumbering midfielder like Ballack or Essien or Khadeira(sp?)etc. If in doubt, knock it about. If you can't find an opening aim the left stick at a player and hit LB (xbox) ad the nearest dude will make a run and the marker will track him, you can then try and run into that space left. That's how I play when under pressure anyhow. Doesn't work all the time but then again it would be boring if it did lol.
2. I think the controls do hide a few tricks in there that I do wish EA would explain properly. Skilled dribbling is not used by anyone ever, but it's helpful with the right players in this game. High ball control players can do some sweet movements with it this year. I know what you mean buy the fact that sometimes it works and sometime it doesn but it's only fraustrating cause you're trying to bang a goal in in 3minutes m8. In a 6minute half in the full game you will be moveing the ball back and forth around you back before even testing the pressure of the midfield really... or with manual lob passes you ca hit a long ball in the channel
Basically EA is stupid for only making the demo 3minutes. No way the demo can show new fans or old what they've improved other than graphics. You can only see hints of what is possible and only being a footy nerd gives me the initiative to pick those things out.
nerf: Yeh man, that's a great move. Didn't know it was analogue this year too. Anyways, it's fraustrating to have to try and experiment with dribbling in such a short time frame. Even in the gamerbase tour we couldn't play too much with it as we were trying to beat eachother too much lol
just posted some LT feathering and RT tapping dribbles here lol. Some of them were jammy i admit. The kaka one was pure luck. I even cut back on myself as i skinned terry !
Arshavin "skilled dribble" incomming!
1. regarding shielding, get the ball to the talented "ball control" guys on your team. They can escape most tackles but you have to recieve the ball aiming at your own goal so you don't plough straight into a lumbering midfielder like Ballack or Essien or Khadeira(sp?)etc. If in doubt, knock it about. If you can't find an opening aim the left stick at a player and hit LB (xbox) ad the nearest dude will make a run and the marker will track him, you can then try and run into that space left. That's how I play when under pressure anyhow. Doesn't work all the time but then again it would be boring if it did lol.
2. I think the controls do hide a few tricks in there that I do wish EA would explain properly. Skilled dribbling is not used by anyone ever, but it's helpful with the right players in this game. High ball control players can do some sweet movements with it this year. I know what you mean buy the fact that sometimes it works and sometime it doesn but it's only fraustrating cause you're trying to bang a goal in in 3minutes m8. In a 6minute half in the full game you will be moveing the ball back and forth around you back before even testing the pressure of the midfield really... or with manual lob passes you ca hit a long ball in the channel
Basically EA is stupid for only making the demo 3minutes. No way the demo can show new fans or old what they've improved other than graphics. You can only see hints of what is possible and only being a footy nerd gives me the initiative to pick those things out.
nerf: Yeh man, that's a great move. Didn't know it was analogue this year too. Anyways, it's fraustrating to have to try and experiment with dribbling in such a short time frame. Even in the gamerbase tour we couldn't play too much with it as we were trying to beat eachother too much lol
just posted some LT feathering and RT tapping dribbles here lol. Some of them were jammy i admit. The kaka one was pure luck. I even cut back on myself as i skinned terry !
Kaka dribble and goal:
http://www.ea.com/uk/football/videos/ugc/36752887
Arsenal movement:
http://www.ea.com/uk/football/videos/ugc/36691422
effed the shot up though.
Iniesta skilled dribble:
http://www.ea.com/uk/football/videos/ugc/36443589
More Iniesta magic:
http://www.ea.com/uk/football/videos/ugc/36439600
All on world class btw. The demo has a glitch where you choose amature at the start and change it to WC later. Gives you an extra bit of time in the demo apparently. Not much though.
Arshavin "skilled dribble" incomming!
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AlaaEG
Crunching
- 29 September 2007
Quality stuff Anthony.
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
Start a two player match with two controllers, set up the teams, go to kick off, pause, select sides and move one controller to the middle so the AI takes over
JGlover769
Non-League
- 25 August 2006
The AI in FIFA is by far the best I've seen in a computer game, just look how Puyol shows real urgency to keep the ball in play, he kicks it across his own goal.. Abidal rises and heads it, but only as far as Pique.... ahhh.... OK... perhaps this isn't the best example..
http://www.ea.com/uk/football/videos/ugc/37547474
http://www.ea.com/uk/football/videos/ugc/37547474