PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

vxcmplx said:
R2 supposedly just adds extra loft to your crosses, it wouldn't work for OO and OOO. Those are your commands to send lower crosses.

In older PES:
OOO = fast ground cross
OO = fast mid height cross
O = regular cross
O+R2 = high loft, floaty cross

In fact, I just looked at the menu. OOO is no longer a command. So one of those is missing.

From the demo, it looks like OO travels on the ground. O is low trajectory cross. And R2 is regular cross.

What's missing here, is the very high loft, floaty cross, that you used to be able to do in 16, with R2+O. Or the ones that you see in the midfield in 17, with R2+O.

Somehow the power on the normal O cross, makes crossing very unnatural when we get close to the edge of box area.

I guess you can use use L2 to override it, but sometimes it doesn't work.

The cross system is archaic, it activates a different O pass behavior when u get close to the box. I'd rather they just keep the normal O pass behavior in and around the box, as it does in the midfield, and then give us a shoulder modifier button to turn our normal loft pass onto a cross. That last third feels very rigid when u try to craft plays.

Having a "cross activation zone" is just an outdated idea. It'd make more sense to turn L1 into an all purpose cross modifier button, which we will use not just for early cross, but anywhere on the field.

By the way, the L1+O pass in this demo feels extremely assisted on manual setting. It's like a cheat command, i can use it to modify my O pass, and it'll act like an assisted level 3 pass. Power is almost disregarded, and ball path correction is heavy handed. It just snaps to player, feels very rigid.
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To me it's like it's depending on where you at on the pitch. I do a lot of lofted high passes and crosses with R2 plus O! Double tapping OO will bring the ball in low and hard.
 
bluewomble88 said:
I have to agree. I simply cannot do anything with manual passing - it reminds me of trying to play football in primary school, always happy to just kick the ball regardless of direction or power. :))
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My problem with it is that I have to play one way - slow, basic possession football - in order to get on with it. Some have said you get used to it and eventually you can play as quickly as you can with assists, but I think you have to stick at it for months before you get to that level (or at least, I think I would). I'd rather be able to mix it up as easily (or not) as that team could in reality, especially if I want my management skills tested (i.e. I want to have to train and buy the right players, I don't want to achieve my goals any more easily than I could in reality).

I hit a shot in the demo with a Brazilian midfielder whose shooting stats were pretty average, and it was a scenario where a half-decent striker would have scored, but with him not being a striker, he put it just wide. It looked, and felt, exactly right. With manual shooting, whether it's considered "not fully manual" or otherwise, I score those opportunities - I scored an absolute peach from the side of the box that curled in at the far post, and let's be honest, I jumped up and down and celebrated that goal like a small lottery win, it was satisfying - but the guy was a wing-back with a pretty poor finishing ability, and I didn't like that I could do that.

But I can see the joy of it - and to each his own. Thank God both options are there.
 
PRO_TOO said:
To me it's like it's depending on where you at on the pitch. I do a lot of lofted high passes and crosses with R2 plus O! Double tapping OO will bring the ball in low and hard.
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Yeah I've assumed it could be contextual as well, maybe to your body animation, and also the angle you are attempting, but I'm really not sure. Right now, I haven't found consistency, where I can say I know what type of cross will come out of the O command, or R2+O. Like, I never know if the pass will come out floaty lofted, or fast aggressive mid height.

L1+advance through ball is another one I'm not sure about. The height, trajectory, aggressiveness, seems all contextual to your body animation, foot swing, and target distance+angle.

https://youtu.be/A1QGTUKzxbc
 
Chimps-with-quiffs said:
Just got the demo on Saturday as I have been on holiday. Played about 15 games on it and enjoyed them.

The game play has more depth than 2016, but I am not sure if it's the washed out looking turf, lighting or both, but the game doesn't look like a graphical improvement that a lot of people said it was.

In 2016 the lighting both at day and night is far better and turfs were more green. I don't understand what konami's infatuation with creating a washed out looking game is, they did it all of the time on the ps3 and led to a lot of people hating night games. Even on the strip selection screen, some players faces look grey or as white as background to this text

When the lighting and turf looks good, the animation of the players looks better and smoother.

Also, am I missing something or is it impossible to change formations on the PS4?
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Yip the lighting is shocking - a real turn off and like you say a return to the PS3 days of every other year them messing with the grass colour and washing them out.


Yip, Aaron Ramsey's face is whiter than his hair - no idea why Konami has overexposed the whites or colour in this game.

Yip Formations can't be changed pal.
 
Chris Davies said:
My problem with it is that I have to play one way - slow, basic possession football - in order to get on with it. Some have said you get used to it and eventually you can play as quickly as you can with assists, but I think you have to stick at it for months before you get to that level (or at least, I think I would). I'd rather be able to mix it up as easily (or not) as that team could in reality, especially if I want my management skills tested (i.e. I want to have to train and buy the right players, I don't want to achieve my goals any more easily than I could in reality).

I hit a shot in the demo with a Brazilian midfielder whose shooting stats were pretty average, and it was a scenario where a half-decent striker would have scored, but with him not being a striker, he put it just wide. It looked, and felt, exactly right. With manual shooting, whether it's considered "not fully manual" or otherwise, I score those opportunities - I scored an absolute peach from the side of the box that curled in at the far post, and let's be honest, I jumped up and down and celebrated that goal like a small lottery win, it was satisfying - but the guy was a wing-back with a pretty poor finishing ability, and I didn't like that I could do that.

But I can see the joy of it - and to each his own. Thank God both options are there.
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I think it's also worth noting that wing-backs will occasionally crack in superb goals in real life. I want this to be replicated in PES but only as exceptions, not regularly. I still have very limited experience with all PES games after PES 6, having recently upgraded from a PS2 to a PS4. However, what I've seen so far looks very promising and I will definitely stick with PA1 and SA1 because I haven't got months and months to learn precise, intricate build-up play. If the AI is disciplined and reflective then I should get a very similar experience whatever assists I use.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Here's my tip as an assisted player who's dabbled with full manual. Stick with assisted, whatever level you're comfortable with and use the manual modifier button for the occasional pass where you want to do something special like play the ball just in front of someone or into space etc. Manual shooting may be easier as you're aiming at the whole width of the goal not a single player who's obviously a lot narrower.

Now I wait for the manual players to jump in...:SMUG:
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Thanks Calcio I will give that a go. I have a feeling though that the 'something special' pass, when I use the manual modifier button, will be to someone one yard away. :P

vxcmplx said:
Use correct body animation, of both the passer and the receiver. Do not send pass if your animation looks awkward (your pass will be less accurate). Do not send pass if the animation of pass receiver looks awkward (the guy who is not ready, can over run the pass). It's a little like real football.

Also, you don't have to always send the pass to feet. Send the ball somewhere close to the guy, he can walk over to collect it. Try sending some under powered passes, and you'll see. Make sure to play the pass into a pocket of space, where you anticipate your receiving player will arrive there first, before the defender can get there.
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That's my problem I don't send it to feet, I don't send it near to anybody's feet, it normally goes to someone off screen, whether it's my player or the CPU is just luck. If it misses the intended player and goes to another player there is a delay in me controlling him so I lose possession.

bluewomble88 said:
I have to agree. I simply cannot do anything with manual passing - it reminds me of trying to play football in primary school, always happy to just kick the ball regardless of direction or power. :))
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Heheh yeh "if in doubt just kick it out" :BRMM:

Chris Davies said:
My problem with it is that I have to play one way - slow, basic possession football - in order to get on with it. Some have said you get used to it and eventually you can play as quickly as you can with assists, but I think you have to stick at it for months before you get to that level (or at least, I think I would). I'd rather be able to mix it up as easily (or not) as that team could in reality, especially if I want my management skills tested (i.e. I want to have to train and buy the right players, I don't want to achieve my goals any more easily than I could in reality).

I hit a shot in the demo with a Brazilian midfielder whose shooting stats were pretty average, and it was a scenario where a half-decent striker would have scored, but with him not being a striker, he put it just wide. It looked, and felt, exactly right. With manual shooting, whether it's considered "not fully manual" or otherwise, I score those opportunities - I scored an absolute peach from the side of the box that curled in at the far post, and let's be honest, I jumped up and down and celebrated that goal like a small lottery win, it was satisfying - but the guy was a wing-back with a pretty poor finishing ability, and I didn't like that I could do that.

But I can see the joy of it - and to each his own. Thank God both options are there.
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Thanks Chris I think you make a really good point. I remember in the PES5 where some players would do 'fantastic' things and I would be thinking how did he do that? Not because I did anything special but because he was a top player that I bought. There was still a good sense of satisfaction if someone chested the ball held off a player and whacked it in the top corner even if all I did was press square.

What shooting do you use? Basic?
 
I don't think it takes months to learn how to play PA 0. That was my fear based on a brief attempt at it on Superstar, and based on my experience of FIFA manual resulting in less sophisticated football. But in truth, unless my occasional foray into FIFA manual has made a huge difference, I was able to put some great stuff together within a few games of playing.

I'll try and upload some example snippets of me playing manual passing later (with 0 game speed, advanced through balls, currently assisted shooting too as I don't feel that assisted shooting is a big deal at the moment - it just needs to be far more varied, possibly to depend more on timing as well as body position). I'll be happy to upload a full match soon, I just want a bit more practice first.

I only really had 4 hours or so with it yesterday so I still occasionally screw up a really basic pass, or I get a bit too casual and switch off, or I get a bit flummoxed by the crossing / advanced through ball which I rarely use. But I do genuinely feel like, most of the time, I'm not losing time because I'm more hesitant to pass (as I would be in FIFA), but more like I can be specific about where I want the ball to go, how I want the other player to receive it. I thought for all the world it'd feel like my passing would be dumbed down and players would be chasing loose passes all over the shop, but it really isn't the case most of the time for me.

The main difficulty is playing those really short passes - little lay-offs to teammates, a couple of yards or so. I think this is where advanced through balls come in, but it's not coming to me naturally just yet.


If you're learning it's essential you bump the difficulty down, even if it just means for the first 5-10 games the opposition are essentially mobile traffic cones for you to practice avoiding. I'm using Professional where on PA 1 I was using Superstar/Top Player, and I feel like by the end of tonight I'll be back up to Top Player.


It makes it all the more frustrating that PA 1 isn't just a slightly more guided version of PA 0. PA 0 and PA 1 feel like completely different games entirely. My biggest gripe with the passing in PA 1 (besides the lack of inaccuracy) is that the players won't alter the direction of a pass to go around someone who's in the way, even if you're clearly pressing to pass through that gap instead of directly to your target. You can either make a pass or you can't. Even in PS1, P2 era PES, the passer would avoid passing straight to a defender. The attacking team would keep possession but the defending team could slow a move down, or make the resultant pass loose enough for a second defender to intercept.
 
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romagnoli said:
It makes it all the more frustrating that PA 1 isn't just a slightly more guided version of PA 0. PA 0 and PA 1 feel like completely different games entirely.
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100% agree, it really does feel like two different games. So frustrating that PA 1 isn't closer to PA 0.5, considering that you've still got PA 2 and PA 3 if you want assists on (which everyone will be using online, I'd wager).

I do see what you mean with the manual passing, but I find having the manual pass modifier when using pass-assistance is really helpful and gives the best of both worlds (it's something I desperately wish FIFA had, along with "team spirit" in the career mode).

Maybe some see that direction arrow as a bit of a cheat, but I think it's very difficult to visualise which direction you're actually pressing the stick in sometimes. If it was permanently on, I think I'd understand why a lot of my pass-assisted passes go to the wrong guy (which I find happens a LOT more often than in FIFA, but that's because there's more assistance on PA 1 than I get on FIFA).
 
SilverSpider said:
Yip the lighting is shocking - a real turn off and like you say a return to the PS3 days of every other year them messing with the grass colour and washing them out.


Yip, Aaron Ramsey's face is whiter than his hair - no idea why Konami has overexposed the whites or colour in this game.

Yip Formations can't be changed pal.
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If you on twitter, tweet to Adam Bhatti or OfficialPES. I have and couple of others have, but the more they get the message, the more likely it is to be fixed
 
Honeymoon is over to me. Goal scoring creation, players movement and AI are great but shooting and goalkeepers makes this game too repetitive.
 
vxcmplx said:
Yeah I've assumed it could be contextual as well, maybe to your body animation, and also the angle you are attempting, but I'm really not sure. Right now, I haven't found consistency, where I can say I know what type of cross will come out of the O command, or R2+O. Like, I never know if the pass will come out floaty lofted, or fast aggressive mid height.

L1+advance through ball is another one I'm not sure about. The height, trajectory, aggressiveness, seems all contextual to your body animation, foot swing, and target distance+angle.

https://youtu.be/A1QGTUKzxbc
Click to expand...

we need the freakin training mode, NOW! :D
cant wait to get this game asap and get lost in training mode for hours! set pieces, crosses, one on one behaviour... all that stuff and more im going to relearn, and im looking forward to it!
 
Danny Henry said:
Honeymoon is over to me. Goal scoring creation, players movement and AI are great but shooting and goalkeepers makes this game too repetitive.
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shez said:
Will get very boring very soon IMHO
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I'm seeing all kinds of goals from me and CPU plus scrambles in the penalty area because the GK only palmed the ball away. I cannot see this becoming boring as long as they make the CPU more difficult without scripting.
 
bluewomble88 said:
As an Arsenal fan I can tell you that's about as unrealistic as it gets! :P
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But he was playing for France. :P

Also, i played a game earlier against Arsenal when Kosielny scored an own goal. Cech clobbered him on the head in disgust. It was quite funny. I think i recorded it somewhere.
 
geeeeee said:
I'm seeing all kinds of goals from me and CPU plus scrambles in the penalty area because the GK only palmed the ball away. I cannot see this becoming boring as long as they make the CPU more difficult without scripting.
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Same here.

PES 2015 and 2016 felt too repetitive to me.
But this one shines with variation again.
 
broxopios said:
One thing that worries me, is that after almost 70 games i've played against CPU, i havent won a penalty kick yet. Something that pes team should adress in my opinion.

On the same boat, when you kick a penalty kick and score, the camera angle changes exactly when the ball pass the goal line and spoil the feeling. In FIFA this is better.

in pes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omxc5vL78h4&feature=youtu.be

in fifa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_21KsuoJkZ8
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I've won about 5 penalties. So they do come
 
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last night I played 5 games on superstar,

boca vs river
atletico vs barca
arsenal vs barca
barca vs arsenal
barca vs atletico

every game finished 0-0
 
Diecii said:
last night I played 5 games on superstar,

boca vs river
atletico vs barca
arsenal vs barca
barca vs arsenal
barca vs atletico

every game finished 0-0
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They have set the game up to be low scoring after a lot of feedback about high scoring games. I am worried they have made a game that the community thinks it wants, but have gone too far and will turn off a lot of players
 
Chimps-with-quiffs said:
They have set the game up to be low scoring after a lot of feedback about high scoring games. I am worried they have made a game that the community thinks it wants, but have gone too far and will turn off a lot of players
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As long as they are through ball, always running spammers i'm happy
 
Love the game as well but its way too hard to score a goal.

I think its because of:

- catch up "bug" of defensive player (they are faster than offensive players)
- bad shooting: even if you are completly free on the 16 yard line you almost cannot score a goal unless you are suarez
- defsive blocking of shots from out of nowhere
- goalkeepers cover too much ground

Hope they can fix this in a patch.
 
DaWolf said:
Love the game as well but its way too hard to score a goal.

I think its because of:

- catch up "bug" of defensive player (they are faster than offensive players)
- bad shooting: even if you are completly free on the 16 yard line you almost cannot score a goal unless you are suarez
- defsive blocking of shots from out of nowhere
- goalkeepers cover too much ground

Hope they can fix this in a patch.
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This kind of feedback ruins game.
 
DaWolf said:
Love the game as well but its way too hard to score a goal.

I think its because of:

- catch up "bug" of defensive player (they are faster than offensive players)
- bad shooting: even if you are completly free on the 16 yard line you almost cannot score a goal unless you are suarez
- defsive blocking of shots from out of nowhere
- goalkeepers cover too much ground

Hope they can fix this in a patch.
Click to expand...

Play on lower difficulty, problem solved.
 
DaWolf said:
Love the game as well but its way too hard to score a goal.

I think its because of:

- catch up "bug" of defensive player (they are faster than offensive players)
- bad shooting: even if you are completly free on the 16 yard line you almost cannot score a goal unless you are suarez
- defsive blocking of shots from out of nowhere
- goalkeepers cover too much ground

Hope they can fix this in a patch.
Click to expand...

I don't see a problem with any of these things you listed. I've blown past plenty of defenders with the likes of Martial, Walcott, Sanchez. I've scored with a variety of players, and the CPU is infinitely more fun to play because they actually close you down (especially around the box) which is why a lot of your efforts are being blocked. Keepers don't seem overpowered to me? Seems to me you want something similar to 2016. I hate being so blunt, but such changes would make 2017 a worse game.
 
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Redhat said:
I don't see a problem with any of these things you listed. I've blown past plenty of defenders with the likes of Martial, Walcott, Sanchez. I've scored with a variety of players, and the CPU is infinitely more fun to play because they actually close you down (especially around the box) which is why a lot of your efforts are being blocked. Keepers don't seem overpowered to me?
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sprinting past players doesnt work when you press R1 all the time! ;) :D

i can do it like you did, use R1 wisely and youll get a few meters ahead! depends on the player too. no problem for me so far! i love that you just cant sprint away over the whole pitch!!
 
PRO_TOO said:
sprinting past players doesnt work when you press R1 all the time! ;) :D

i can do it like you did, use R1 wisely and youll get a few meters ahead! depends on the player too. no problem for me so far! i love that you just cant sprint away over the whole pitch!!
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Indeed. You can't go on those 80-yard, PES 6-esque slalom runs which were fun at times, but completely absurd. And yes, I feel like anyone who has an issue getting past players in 2017 aren't making proper use of the R1 (or R2 for me), throttling the sprint button and timing.

It's just like real life in terms of taking players on. Slow, slow, quick change of pace to make that initial yard or so of space and then you're off. Some of the runs I've made with Martial are very reminiscent of his real life counterpart. In terms of catch up bug, when I'm in acres of space I haven't really noticed the AI magically catching up with me.

https://youtu.be/zVnrDZ7clHc?t=44s

The first few runs are most certainly doable in PES 2017.
 
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