PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

Turdi182 said:
This is big !!! My biggest wish is that other countries will follow! Stop this gambling bullshit!!! And punish those money grubbing cu*** at ea sports !
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Konami do exactly the same thing - they even produce a free version of the game to get money from people. EA might have started it, but Konami didn't have to take it up did they (or sell special "David Beckham" edition games for myClub)...
 
Woah! Great!
Bravo, Belgium! :D

This could save offline gaming and football games if other countries follow suit after a while.
 
Chuny said:
Woah! Great!
Bravo, Belgium! :D

This could save offline gaming and football games if other countries follow suit after a while.
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Or, EA could find a loophole (or bribe a guy) and they could be back in a year or two.

I find that scenario way more likely than other countries (with more corrupt politicians in certain roles) being won over by this. But obviously, I hope they are.

Primarily because it would mean developers having to make money by making the game a must-buy, rather than a must-buy-card-packs-to-play...
 
Chris Davies said:
Or, EA could find a loophole (or bribe a guy) and they could be back in a year or two.

I find that scenario way more likely than other countries (with more corrupt politicians in certain roles) being won over by this. But obviously, I hope they are.

Primarily because it would mean developers having to make money by making the game a must-buy, rather than a must-buy-card-packs-to-play...
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This might raise a flag for people around the world. Parents, for example.
I don't think some parents understand that they are giving their credit cards to their kids to spend on virtual coins to buy a virtual player to win a virtual football match.

If awareness levels are high enough, things might chance. But it's going to be a tough long battle.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Why what happened?
Im not entirely sure if this is a good sign.
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Can you elaborate?

I cant see anything but positives that might come from it.
Other countries just need to follow.
And even if they find a loophole, we will be in the same place as we are now. Cant be any worse.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Why what happened exactly? EA site is very vague on this, says only "gambling" but isnt gambling a thing with which you can win money?
On top of that im not entirely sure if this is a good sign at all.
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The Belgian government ruled that buying FUT packs (which claim "TEAM OF THE WEEK CARDS" but actually have a less than 1% chance of you getting the players they advertise) constitute gambling. Let's be real here - it is. Whether you support the idea of .

Belgian law prohibits this, or at least it does if you don't have a gambling license. EA won't admit that FUT is gambling - can you imagine what would happen if they did? "EA ADMITS SELLING GAMBLING TO CHILDREN." They would have to make fundamental changes and they'd face lawsuits from every parent in the world whose kid played FUT.

Anyway. EA basically ignored this, and released FIFA in Belgium without changing anything. Therefore, Belgium put wheels in motion to sue EA for flagrantly disregarding the law.

EA decided that, rather than get sued, they'd just prohibit the sale of FIFA Points in Belgium. (They're through launch now, they've drained enough wallets, sales will naturally be slowing anyway, so why not, right?)

I bet you any money that it turns out you can get around it either by using a VPN or by making a fake PSN/Xbox account. If it's the latter, every kid will keep on doing it anyway.
 
Chris Davies said:
The Belgian government ruled that buying FUT packs (which claim "TEAM OF THE WEEK CARDS" but actually have a less than 1% chance of you getting the players they advertise) constitute gambling. Let's be real here - it is. Whether you support the idea of .

Belgian law prohibits this, or at least it does if you don't have a gambling license. EA won't admit that FUT is gambling - can you imagine what would happen if they did? "EA ADMITS SELLING GAMBLING TO CHILDREN." They would have to make fundamental changes and they'd face lawsuits from every parent in the world whose kid played FUT.

Anyway. EA basically ignored this, and released FIFA in Belgium without changing anything. Therefore, Belgium put wheels in motion to sue EA for flagrantly disregarding the law.

EA decided that, rather than get sued, they'd just prohibit the sale of FIFA Points in Belgium. (They're through launch now, they've drained enough wallets, sales will naturally be slowing anyway, so why not, right?)

I bet you any money that it turns out you can get around it either by using a VPN or by making a fake PSN/Xbox account. If it's the latter, every kid will keep on doing it anyway.
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As far as i know you have to have a certain age to open and manage a bank account. Being a kid has nothing to do with this.

Sorry but only have time for wikipedia, and as i know you cant win material goods or either money with FUT. Right?
"Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome, with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. "

Im not effected by this btw i just dont understand. They rather got banned for whatever reason it seems.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
"Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome, with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. "
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"Material goods" is not a fair description for the modern world. If you pay for Netflix, you're not getting material goods. You're not even getting a letter through the post. But you're getting goods, aren't you. You're not donating to charity.

In FUT or in myClub, you're told "buy a ONES TO WATCH pack", which shows you the non-standard players you MIGHT get - and when you click it to make the purchase, you are now shown the odds of winning (which itself has only been added because of legal and parental pressure) - but even then, they can't bring themselves to tell you the whole truth.

jpg


A) If something's telling you what your odds are.............
.........................................................................that's a bet.

B) What's "less than 1%"? It could be 0.5% - 200 purchases before you get one of the cards being advertised. It could be 0.1% - 1,000 purchases.

Anything else that takes money off you for a bet is regulated, in most countries, because of things like gambling addictions (it doesn't have to be about kids, it's still gambling). FUT and myClub aren't currently regulated as such - but it looks like Belgium have won this one, very small battle.

I understand that you, as an adult, may want to take that bet. Go for it. If you live in Belgium and you're pissed off right now - surely you see that this isn't a "TAKING AWAY OUR FREEDOMS" thing, it's that EA/Konami won't admit this is gambling, so they're not allowed to sell it to adults OR children. They're the ones at fault here - you can sell your product, with gambling, you just have to admit it's gambling and obey the law.

This stuff needs to be regulated, for adults, for parents that need to know about the hook (you would never know from the picture on the box). It's not just a football game.

Gunslinger said:
Another reason I'm glad I don't live in one of those socialist European countries.
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We don't allow political talk on Evo-Web. I understand this sort of straddles a line, but just don't go there. It goes downhill fast.
 
Chris Davies said:
"Material goods" is not a fair description for the modern world. If you pay for Netflix, you're not getting material goods. You're not even getting a letter through the post. But you're getting goods, aren't you. You're not donating to charity.

In FUT or in myClub, you're told "buy a ONES TO WATCH pack", which shows you the non-standard players you MIGHT get - and when you click it to make the purchase, you are now shown the odds of winning (which itself has only been added because of legal and parental pressure) - but even then, they can't bring themselves to tell you the whole truth.

jpg


What's "less than 1%"? Because it's not 0.9%. It could be 0.1%. Or 0.001%.

Anything else that takes money off you for a bet (you're betting you'll be in that 0.001%) is regulated, in most countries, because of things like gambling addictions (it doesn't have to be about kids, it's still gambling). FUT and myClub aren't currently regulated as such - but it looks like Belgium have won this one, very small battle.

I understand that you, as an adult, may want to take that bet. Go for it. But what we're talking about is the definition. It needs to be regulated and parents need to know about the hook. It's not just a football game.


We don't allow political talk on Evo-Web. Don't pursue that path.
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The problem is that all these news heavily related to politics it seems. So might we just remove everything related to this.

Appreciate the details but i still dont see officially how you can make money out of this. If i could win money or goods (ok for non material too) which i can sell later that would mean gambling then only, no? But you cant sell anything you win in these packs only for virtual coins.

Buying/Selling Fifa coins now thats a problem but thats illegal to begin with.

So following this idea we could ban season passes as well as you dont know what are the future dlcs for certain titles.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Appreciate the details but i still dont see officially how you can make money out of this. If i could win money or goods (ok for non material too) which i can sell later that would mean gambling then only, no? But you cant sell anything you win in these packs only for virtual coins.
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I don't get this, sorry - you sign into FUT/myClub and you're immediately told "come and buy a pack with these players in", you hand over however much money you like, but your odds of receiving the thing initially advertised is less than 100% - and you're given the odds of receiving various things - therefore it's a gamble, and anything to do with gambling has regulations (for the protection of vulnerable people for one thing, and to prevent children from doing it). Why does "selling it on" have anything to do with it?

gabe.paul.logan said:
The problem is that all these news heavily related to politics it seems. So might we just remove everything related to this.
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You're right, politics comes into it, and anything explicitly political will be deleted because we don't allow that here. But it affects football games, so it was always going to be reported (as it's relevant, it's news), and discussion will happen. But you're right, it will almost definitely get ugly and the ban stick will come out.
 
Chris Davies said:
Konami do exactly the same thing - they even produce a free version of the game to get money from people. EA might have started it, but Konami didn't have to take it up did they (or sell special "David Beckham" edition games for myClub)...
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I agree and disagree with you. Yeah Konami are doing kind of the same thing as EA. But they do it in a way more appropriate way (if you can call it like that). In Fifa you have to spend about 500-600 Euros to get a player like Ronaldo. (which is ridiculous) in Pes I haven't spend a single Euro and still had a team with Ronaldo, Mbappe and Lozano inform as attackers after like 2 or 3 weeks. Konami makes superstars available for everyone. Now I don't say that I like MyClub or real money in those modes in general. But there is no way you can compare Konami to EA in that regard.


By the way I don't think it's important if it's gambling or not.. It's manipulation and that's the problem.
 
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Turdi182 said:
I agree and disagree with you. Yeah Konami are doing kind of the same thing as EA. But they do it in a way more appropriate way (if you can call it like that). In Fifa you have to spend about 500-600 Euros to get a player like Ronaldo. (which is ridiculous) in Pes I haven't spend a single Euro and still had a team with Ronaldo, Mbappe and Lozano inform as attackers after like 2 or 3 weeks. Konami makes superstars available for everyone. Now I don't say that I like MyClub or real money in those modes in general. But there is no way you can compare Konami to EA in that regard.
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Konami are just dumber and less experienced in tuning the mode for maximum profit than EA are. If anything it's worse than EA, it's just so incompetent.

Letting everyone have those players so easily ruins the gameplay (100mph PA3 ping pong, ultra aggressive pressing etc.) and surely dissuades many from even spending real money when they can just grind/farm instead, defeating the entire purpose of the mode for Konami (cash grab attempt).

In co-op mode, 95%+ of the teams you face (no exaggeration) are ridiculously stacked with 90+ rated players. Often the lowest rated player is an 89 rated "Legend" like Gullit or R.Carlos. I'd much rather it be like FUT where you see those kinds of ridiculous teams far less often. I'd expect PES 2020 MyClub to make it much more difficult to attain those teams to incentivise spending money.

Or they could just let you choose to remove MyClub opponents from your co-op matchmaking... But nope, all other modes are simply abandoned now. I'd be very surprised if the co-op mode isn't completely identical next time round - literally nothing changed from 18 to 19. They still let people play CO-OP on their own with CPU teammates...
 
Chris Davies said:
I don't get this, sorry - you sign into FUT/myClub and you're immediately told "come and buy a pack with these players in", you hand over however much money you like, but your odds of receiving the thing initially advertised is less than 100% - and you're given the odds of receiving various things - therefore it's a gamble, and anything to do with gambling has regulations (for the protection of vulnerable people for one thing, and to prevent children from doing it). Why does "selling it on" have anything to do with it?
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Because FUT is just an unfair toy capsule with its somewhat clear rules.
With gambling you supposed to have the chance to earn money at least in my country thats why only casinos here are allowed to have machines and such games, events etc because they operate under the law and probably they pay heavy taxes to the goverment and probably to the maffia :D Same goest to the winners over certain money.

But i thought the point with gambling is that you CAN earn money and Belgium uses gambling as an issue here which is not true in this case because its not gambling at all. This is just an excuse for whatever reason. I have a guess but i respect the house rules.

But i can assume straight after this FUT youtube channels will be probably banned in Belgium.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Because FUT is just an unfair toy capsule with its somewhat clear rules.
With gambling you supposed to have the chance to earn money
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I think that since internet took over, a lot of laws and definitions became more complex than this.

They are still trying to get their heads around how to deal with it, and in the meantime companies are milking people while they still can.

Belgium took a first step to fight it and if anything, at least they put a spotlight on it.
And EA response just confirms that the whole mechanism is dodgy as fuck.

If you want Ronaldo, you should pay for Ronaldo and receive Ronaldo (or preferably earn "coins" to get him in-game or as a reward).

If you pay money and have absolutely zero guarantees that you will get what you want - thats gambling. Gambling by definition is taking risk towards achieving uncertain goal.
That should be regulated by law or age restriction should be placed there.

Any sort of shitstorm around it is only a good news for us, gamers. Developers might stop releasing half-arsed games focused on online, thinking they will get easy money from numpties.
 
Emroth said:
I think that since internet took over, a lot of laws and definitions became more complex than this.

They are still trying to get their heads around how to deal with it, and in the meantime companies are milking people while they still can.

Belgium took a first step to fight it and if anything, at least they put a spotlight on it.
And EA response just confirms that the whole mechanism is dodgy as fuck.

If you want Ronaldo, you should pay for Ronaldo and receive Ronaldo (or preferably earn "coins" to get him in-game or as a reward).

If you pay money and have absolutely zero guarantees that you will get what you want - thats gambling. Gambling by definition is taking risk towards achieving uncertain goal.
That should be regulated by law or age restriction should be placed there.

Any sort of shitstorm around it is only a good news for us, gamers. Developers might stop releasing half-arsed games focused on online, thinking they will get easy money from numpties.
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Spot on!
Cue the idiots who wants to get ripped and gets offended that Belgium (hope all other European countries follows) bans this.
As you wrote,EA responded to this,knowing their pyramid scam is dodgy as shit!
Rip all millennial YouTubers...
 
Emroth said:
I think that since internet took over, a lot of laws and definitions became more complex than this.

They are still trying to get their heads around how to deal with it, and in the meantime companies are milking people while they still can.

Belgium took a first step to fight it and if anything, at least they put a spotlight on it.
And EA response just confirms that the whole mechanism is dodgy as fuck.

If you want Ronaldo, you should pay for Ronaldo and receive Ronaldo (or preferably earn "coins" to get him in-game or as a reward).

If you pay money and have absolutely zero guarantees that you will get what you want - thats gambling. Gambling by definition is taking risk towards achieving uncertain goal.
That should be regulated by law or age restriction should be placed there.

Any sort of shitstorm around it is only a good news for us, gamers. Developers might stop releasing half-arsed games focused on online, thinking they will get easy money from numpties.
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Just becareful what you wish for you dont know what ban might come next. And was there any vote about this new law in Belgium? Why is it only a problem now? Was there any change in the goverment after all those years of legal FUT?
Btw its not my country tho and there will be always a way around these stuffs.

Then another question. What about Season Passes? And gameplay updates? They hold a fair amount of uncertainty which you buy for money especially the latter one. Imagine buying a box of dark chocolate then the next month the factory guy comes over and changes it to white because theres an udpate. You cant refund it as it only lasts for 24hours, only sell it but only to people who like white chocolate and of course not for the full price by then.

Isn this unfair too? These are bigger concernes to me and there is no uproar about these at all.

This gambling ban- correct me if im wrong - you implying guys its good because perhaps there will be more focus on offline modes so?
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Just becareful what you wish for you dont know what ban might come next. And was there any vote about this new law in Belgium? Why is it only a problem now? Was there any change in the goverment after all those years of legal FUT?
Btw its not my country tho and there will be always a way around these stuffs.

Then another question. What about Season Passes? And gameplay updates? They hold a fair amount of uncertainty which you buy for money especially the latter one. Imagine buying a box of dark chocolate then the next month the factory guy comes over and changes it to white because theres an udpate. You cant refund it as it only lasts for 24hours, only sell it but only to people who like white chocolate and of course not for the full price by then.

Isn this unfair too? These are bigger concernes to me and there is no uproar about these at all.

This gambling ban- correct me if im wrong - you implying guys its good because perhaps there will be more focus on offline modes so?
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I think you are reaching too far and making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Why is it only an issue now? It's not.
It was always an issue. Just wasnt properly regulated until now.
Smoking in restaurants was ok a while ago and it was always harmful for people around...

As for your white and black chocolate, lets swap chocolate with a fridge. You buy a fridge, and it has issues (bugs). It gets fixed(updated), to make sure that fridge you bought is working correctly.
Now - if there is new model of this fridge, or "upgraded" version, you have to pay for it.
Same with games. If you want new DLC or expansion - you pay for it.

I dont mind paying for additional content as long as its worth buying.
But regular updates, updates to make sure that THE VERSION you bought is working properly, will be free.
It was always like that. Before all this microtransactions madness we were paying for additional content. The difference was - we were spending money for something that was worth it.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Just becareful what you wish for you dont know what ban might come next. And was there any vote about this new law in Belgium? Why is it only a problem now? Was there any change in the goverment after all those years of legal FUT?
Btw its not my country tho and there will be always a way around these stuffs.

Then another question. What about Season Passes? And gameplay updates? They hold a fair amount of uncertainty which you buy for money especially the latter one. Imagine buying a box of dark chocolate then the next month the factory guy comes over and changes it to white because theres an udpate. You cant refund it as it only lasts for 24hours, only sell it but only to people who like white chocolate and of course not for the full price by then.

Isn this unfair too? These are bigger concernes to me and there is no uproar about these at all.

This gambling ban- correct me if im wrong - you implying guys its good because perhaps there will be more focus on offline modes so?
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The chocolate hypothesis you made above has totally no connection with the micro transactions and loot boxes gambling in the FUTcase.
You could better suppose that you buy a certain amount of packs of chocolate,because you want to eat chocolate,but the possibility is 99% the box has marbles and 1% the package have chocolate.So you paid to eat but it is close to impossible to eat.
Furthermore,ok season passes are paid but gameplay updates are usually free updates even from the most greedy companies,until now.
 
Of course it has nothing with gambling i havent said that at all. I compared it to updates.

As for the fridge fixing and new fridges i disagree they arent like updates. Fix is a fix because something is not working as its intended. A new fridge is a new different product.
If someone would come from the company and change the fridge for better or worse without you having a say that equals to the updates.
 
Hi guys I need your help :) I want to play PES19 on PS4 online, but i just want to play friendlies against my mate.We want to something like versus or exhibition match but online ( to be able to choose any team )I read somewhere that this might not be possible on pes (wtf?!). Please help as we do not want to play fifa...
 
Biaggi983 said:
Hi guys I need your help :) I want to play PES19 on PS4 online, but i just want to play friendlies against my mate.We want to something like versus or exhibition match but online ( to be able to choose any team )I read somewhere that this might not be possible on pes (wtf?!). Please help as we do not want to play fifa...
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huh? just go to friendly lobby and invite him, done.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Of course it has nothing with gambling i havent said that at all. I compared it to updates.

As for the fridge fixing and new fridges i disagree they arent like updates. Fix is a fix because something is not working as its intended. A new fridge is a new different product.
If someone would come from the company and change the fridge for better or worse without you having a say that equals to the updates.
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i get exactly what you're saying. as i've had the same thought. patches can and have completely changed and ruined the game the product you originally played, liked and bought. would be great if you can choose to install or uninstall whatever patch you like then use it offline or online but you cant, you have to accept all patches to even be able to play online, yet often the patch messes up the game you like. e.g. i'd wanna stay on the pes19 patch where the goalies came out, as general gameplay is better but no i'm stuck with crap latest one.

With the gambling thing. Weren't football stickers and those little football figures gambling too then? As that's where the FUT idea came from originally anyway. You bought packs of players (stickers) not knowing who was in them and there was pretty low chance of you getting who you wanted, that's why you had to do swaps at school. I developed an addiction there and completed my Premier League 95/96 Merlin Sticker Album by regularly stealing £1 from my mum's bag to fund buying packs of stickers...Guess what my main income is now? Football gambling, no joke :)
 
Pagi84 said:
patches can and have completely changed and ruined the game the product you originally played,
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You see, guys - thats where the problem is.
There shouldnt be any updates in a first place.
Gameplay should be optimised and product should be finished when you buy it.
There will always be little bugs that need to be fixed, but we shouldnt be waiting 6 months for a stadium, or AI to be fixed.
This is something that we just take as a norm nowadays.
 
Emroth said:
Check this...
Check out @Durandil67’s Tweet: That would be deadly...
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This is my actual dream.

And yet the most in-depth VR football game so far is Headmaster, where you stand in the penalty box and head balls into a net.

There's no way EA and Konami haven't been experimenting with VR, the potential is clear - but I bet they're having issues with motion sickness (standing still while, on the headset, running full-pelt towards the goal). Also, given the size of the budget PES has (i.e. tiny), I imagine they're stretched as it is.

Even so, I hope they keep experimenting.
 
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