PES 2016 News & Discussion Thread

[robbieryan]

I think it's as simple as the AI taking their instructions too literally, which you can see as part of the (much improved in 2016 but) lack of variation in AI playing styles.

The AI calculates given the situation they are in what is the highest % chance of scoring a goal and they take that option nearly every time.

A human would do the same thing except that we have external and conscious factors which make us more prone to make an error in our decision making (balance, line of sight, mental pressure etc)

 

[Deco]

I think it's as simple as the AI taking their instructions too literally, which you can see as part of the (much improved in 2016 but) lack of variation in AI playing styles.

The AI calculates given the situation they are in what is the highest % chance of scoring a goal and they take that option nearly every time.

A human would do the same thing except that we have external and conscious factors which make us more prone to make an error in our decision making (balance, line of sight, mental pressure etc)

So we need a "to hell with the rules imposed by the a.i card" where they can try something outside the norm.

 

[yusuf NF]

Ask..
Tutorial editor startscreen pes2016 ps3?

 

[Edmundo 22]

Well if the AI is ALLOWED to get in the same positions to score an angled low shot in the corner, sounds like real futebol. If you have a hole in your defense, you will be punished. Any good striker given the chance loves to drive the shot low into the corner, sometimes low, sometimes the ball has more lift but the corner is the sweet spot. (ie. you want the striker to shoot at the goalie?)

In other words, the human player will affect the type of goals the AI will score.

As I posted earlier , Im getting all sorts of goals, the variation is actually awesome.

The AI on Superstar can indeed be ruthless, it certainly demands a higher level of defending from the human player. I was playing my team in Serie A, and really noticed how Inter and Juve the ref was like their 12th man for the AI. Both teams would slide tackle nearly every tackle lol, and the ref didnt care if it was a blatant red card, play on ! Yet in Champions League the ref would not allow that , he would yellow card them and actually call most fouls correctly, interesting stuff.

 

[Elja]

I'm not an expert but in simple terms, I think on PES it must have something to do with an algorithm that just decides what type of shot power and direction is going to be triggered in certain situations and there just not alot of range in that Algorithm on this game.

Interesting, but you can see variety of shots in PES 2014 and 2015, which has the same engine.

That's my theory. In FIFA they've built an engine that calculates player momentum, body position, ball physics and trajectory. That's why there's so much variation on Human controlled shooting and combined with the influence of the varying difficulty level algorithms, the AI has more diversity in shooting on that game.

We can see this in older pes, like PES 5/6 and 13.

 

[Deco]

Well if the AI is ALLOWED to get in the same positions to score an angled low shot in the corner, sounds like real futebol. If you have a hole in your defense, you will be punished. Any good striker given the chance loves to drive the shot low into the corner, sometimes low, sometimes the ball has more lift but the corner is the sweet spot. (ie. you want the striker to shoot at the goalie?)

In other words, the human player will affect the type of goals the AI will score.

As I posted earlier , Im getting all sorts of goals, the variation is actually awesome.

The AI on Superstar can indeed be ruthless, it certainly demands a higher level of defending from the human player. I was playing my team in Serie A, and really noticed how Inter and Juve the ref was like their 12th man for the AI. Both teams would slide tackle nearly every tackle lol, and the ref didnt care if it was a blatant red card, play on ! Yet in Champions League the ref would not allow that , he would yellow card them and actually call most fouls correctly, interesting stuff.

Edmundo before the dlc the ai was getting a lot of different types of goals as well e.g shots from outside the box . .taking it on the chest and volleying and a lot of headers. I agree with you that in real football the majority of goals are rolled along the ground when in the box. It can be down to the way you play. . where you leave no alternative to the a.i but to do that, but the frequency of it has gone up. .a few curlers from outside the box wouldn't go amiss. Still enjoying it though.

 

[klashman69]

Well if the AI is ALLOWED to get in the same positions to score an angled low shot in the corner, sounds like real futebol. If you have a hole in your defense, you will be punished. Any good striker given the chance loves to drive the shot low into the corner, sometimes low, sometimes the ball has more lift but the corner is the sweet spot. (ie. you want the striker to shoot at the goalie?)

In other words, the human player will affect the type of goals the AI will score.

As I posted earlier , Im getting all sorts of goals, the variation is actually awesome.

The AI on Superstar can indeed be ruthless, it certainly demands a higher level of defending from the human player. I was playing my team in Serie A, and really noticed how Inter and Juve the ref was like their 12th man for the AI. Both teams would slide tackle nearly every tackle lol, and the ref didnt care if it was a blatant red card, play on ! Yet in Champions League the ref would not allow that , he would yellow card them and actually call most fouls correctly, interesting stuff.

Yes and no.

Yes your right, the key is giving the AI a chance to shoot there and you know your fucked, yes, its preventable with organised defending and making sure you look to anticipate the AI's path to goal t stop it happening before they get there and YES, tactics make the difference here with the AI who activley exploit any free spaces to pass to ahead of them.

No, because it's way too perfect, sometimes the AI literally put together an almost impossible perfect one touch move and score in the bottom corner, this issue here is actually more because of the very limited movement system whih gives litle variables to players balance when performing pass and shots.

The big overall issue is players are always in perfect balance because there is only 3 speeds of movement on the ball;

pace control (R2) / normal dribble / full sprint (tron running).

The shooting and passing mechanics at their core are the best in any football game by some distance, oeral thy are let down massively because there are little to no variables in when players shoot because thy are always too balanced on the ball.

The key, the million dollar question is have Konami improved the general movement system too be more sensitive like it was from 2011-2013 especially which will bring back the realism and depth.

 

[klashman69]

Also separate point to that above. I noticed here at evo web 85% of us play only vs the CPU

Play PES 2016 vs your mate and yo will see why it got the reviews it did, the flaws and issues we have all seen don't really come up when playing vs someone, really is a quality, enjoyable fun game when you don't play against the AI.

I was shocked here in Canada a guy ad not just heard of PES but said it was his game of choie over FIFA ass the game was the just the same every year to him.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

well um honestly...every year when i try PES and it is for years now it is acceptable against the cpu and i could see why people enjoy it...then i arrange a night with buddies and after the 3rd or 4th game it comes to our attention that the game is a mess with all the high scores, poor defending ai and all its flaws & exploits


and yes FIFA is more or less the same experience with mates thats why we dont paly footy for years now together only for 1 day

 

[brianzwb]

Also separate point to that above. I noticed here at evo web 85% of us play only vs the CPU

Play PES 2016 vs your mate and yo will see why it got the reviews it did, the flaws and issues we have all seen don't really come up when playing vs someone, really is a quality, enjoyable fun game when you don't play against the AI.

Definitely. I had a few friends over and we played 2v2 after watching El Clasico. It was so much fun and I don't see any area that you can exploit easily. The biggest flaws are still ref and gk. A lot of malicious fouls not punished after advantage play. And goalies tend to parry the ball when he can clearly catch it.

Me and my pal lost a game 2:8 and also won another game 10:2. And it's not always high scoring games like these. Some 1:1 and 1:0 games too.

 

[sonoman]

yesterday i played for the first time in weeks against the CPU, i started an Euros using Belgium and i was amazed of how the game has changed.

In my first match, Italy kept posession and were very clinical and creative when attacking, and were just perfect in defense, but it didnt't feel like cheating at all.
They won 2-1 but it could've been a lot more goals if it wasnt because of Courtois and his amazing saves.

In the second match i won 5-1 against a weak Ireland side, they were defending good until the first goal came in and then they proceeded to run like headless chickens for the rest of the match. i found that really funny (and relateable, since Mexico does the same everytime)

I love this game (again) now, cant wait to get home and keep on playing

 

[Deco]

yesterday i played for the first time in weeks against the CPU, i started an Euros using Belgium and i was amazed of how the game has changed.

In my first match, Italy kept posession and were very clinical and creative when attacking, and were just perfect in defense, but it didnt't feel like cheating at all.
They won 2-1 but it could've been a lot more goals if it wasnt because of Courtois and his amazing saves.

In the second match i won 5-1 against a weak Ireland side, they were defending good until the first goal came in and then they proceeded to run like headless chickens for the rest of the match. i found that really funny (and relateable, since Mexico does the same everytime)

I love this game (again) now, cant wait to get home and keep on playing

The honeymoon period . . I was like that. .when I wasn't playing it, I was dreaming that I was playing it.

 

[klashman69]

well um honestly...every year when i try PES and it is for years now it is acceptable against the cpu and i could see why people enjoy it...then i arrange a night with buddies and after the 3rd or 4th game it comes to our attention that the game is a mess with all the high scores, poor defending ai and all its flaws & exploits


and yes FIFA is more or less the same experience with mates thats why we dont play footy for years now together only for 1 day

I'm surprised about that, the games i had were good, i did win a few 6-1, etc.. but that is because i know the game inside out almost compared to a newcomer, but the games the newcomes or usual fifa players had where close 2-1, 3-2 encounters.

Its important also to setup to team tactics because even if you're better than your opponent if hi tactics are exploiting yours, you're going to find it hard no matter his level.

We put it on manual for a game which was really, really good but a few of them struggled though so we went back to normal.

Manual also is a revolution on this game, its moved football games forward, its the first game where short passes on manual are relatively easy and the function is sensitive enough to allow all types of passes.

Definitely. I had a few friends over and we played 2v2 after watching El Clasico. It was so much fun and I don't see any area that you can exploit easily. The biggest flaws are still ref and gk. A lot of malicious fouls not punished after advantage play. And goalies tend to parry the ball when he can clearly catch it.

Me and my pal lost a game 2:8 and also won another game 10:2. And it's not always high scoring games like these. Some 1:1 and 1:0 games too.

Yes, its a really, really solid game when playing against a friend. You win by playing just simple, nice football. Its still flawed, its not got massive serious tactical depth but its very playable.

 

[brianzwb]

Manual also is a revolution on this game, its moved football games forward, its the first game where short passes on manual are relatively easy and the function is sensitive enough to allow all types of passes.

Yeah I've been playing on manual for quite a few years, both FIFA and PES. The manual pass and shot in this game is pretty easy yet you are still able to hit the creative passes that you want. There were some delicate passes I pulled off when playing 2v2, that even the guys on the opposing side were complimenting them. I never told them I was using manual pass though

 

[vxcmplx]

Yes and no.

Yes your right, the key is giving the AI a chance to shoot there and you know your fucked, yes, its preventable with organised defending and making sure you look to anticipate the AI's path to goal t stop it happening before they get there and YES, tactics make the difference here with the AI who activley exploit any free spaces to pass to ahead of them.

No, because it's way too perfect, sometimes the AI literally put together an almost impossible perfect one touch move and score in the bottom corner, this issue here is actually more because of the very limited movement system whih gives litle variables to players balance when performing pass and shots.

True that the COM does that, and it also is quite formulaic. It's like if the AI finds itself in certain position, it executes a decision robotically. There's no "nerves" at all effecting COM's decision, and sometimes it tends to disregard context (thus you don't really see difference of their behavior if you give them 4 secs of space in the box, vs 1.5 sec. It'll just pull the same shot regardless of context, as long as it's same distance, same angle).

And true about the perfectness of it all. First touch is a big problem this year even when playing on manual. Out of all these months playing, I've never seen a first touch go horribly wrong. You can send a very powerful pass, and the ball at worst will bounce very high when it arrives at receiver's feet, or he can take it on a run and a large running stride animation will be played. But never will you see the ball actually get miscontrolled and bounce away as a loose ball from the receiver. The guy always seems to know where the location of the ball will be next. That means any kind of first touch is always stringed to the receiving player, it's something that contributes to the feeling of "too perfect". Happens to lower rated players as well. I really want to see first touches where the guy surprises himself and has to take half a sec to reassess and look for/collect the ball. Same for defenders. Realistically, players need time to recalculate and process what they see.

Yes and no.

The big overall issue is players are always in perfect balance because there is only 3 speeds of movement on the ball;

pace control (R2) / normal dribble / full sprint (tron running).

The shooting and passing mechanics at their core are the best in any football game by some distance, oeral thy are let down massively because there are little to no variables in when players shoot because thy are always too balanced on the ball.

The key, the million dollar question is have Konami improved the general movement system too be more sensitive like it was from 2011-2013 especially which will bring back the realism and depth.

This is true as well. All passes and shots should fundamentally be based on the context of the passer/shooter's body balance and body posture at the moment the pass/shot is sent (aka how well do you control the body animation of the player at the moment of pass/shot).

The balance issue also applies to defenders, they are way too balanced when being wrong footed.

I'm not sure what you mean by sensitivity, do you mean reactiveness? 15 and 16 is reactive enough to me. Maybe even too reactive before this update. 11-13 didn't feel very sensitive to me, it was, however, very reactive.



Sensitivity, to me, is synonymous to "varied", "easy to make a mistake". While 2014 had major issues with many things, it had the most sensitive ball control/dribbling system, it was very difficult to navigate players, every touch has to be carefully made and thought about. Balance (or off-balance) was very exaggerated. This aspect of it, I enjoyed a lot (together with R3 stick). The dribbling and first control touches were a bit more unpredictable, which kinda made me feel the ball and player were separate entities. 15-16 feels more like 11-13 to me in this regard, the touches were quite perfect, too perfect. Didn't feel there were enough human errors in there.


Klashman you are in Canada? I'm in California and have 2 manual friends from Canada, maybe you know them?

 

[klashman69]

The balance issue also applies to defenders, they are way too balanced when being wrong footed.

I'm not sure what you mean by sensitivity, do you mean reactiveness? 15 and 16 is reactive enough to me. Maybe even too reactive before this update. 11-13 didn't feel very sensitive to me, it was, however, very reactive.



Sensitivity, to me, is synonymous to "varied", "easy to make a mistake". While 2014 had major issues with many things, it had the most sensitive ball control/dribbling system, it was very difficult to navigate players, every touch has to be carefully made and thought about. Balance (or off-balance) was very exaggerated. This aspect of it, I enjoyed a lot (together with R3 stick). The dribbling and first control touches were a bit more unpredictable, which kinda made me feel the ball and player were separate entities. 15-16 feels more like 11-13 to me in this regard, the touches were quite perfect, too perfect. Didn't feel there were enough human errors in there.


Klashman you are in Canada? I'm in California and have 2 manual friends from Canada, maybe you know them?

Yes i'm in Canada now :

What i mean is something i have said over and over and over all year and said since 2014.

Here is the post explaining what i mean:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3119020&postcount=8279

 

[vxcmplx]

Yes i'm in Canada now :

What i mean is something i have said over and over and over all year and said since 2014.

Here is the post explaining what i mean:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3119020&postcount=8279

I see what you mean about looping. I don't see it often tho I rarely run with R1 for more than a few steps at a time (because of the moderate catchup bug).

So even if animation of walking/running with the ball are more varied, I think they will still have a disconnect between the animation and pass/shoot/fouls? I mean, it can have the "image" correct, but the pass/shot/foul success rate is still disconnected with this "image".

For example, 180 pass is still possible. That to me, totally disregards any work done in animation. The ball will be kicked regardless of how balance your body is. And this is not just about direction, it's about the player's weight, how he's leaning. If he has opened up his body or not before passing, if he's running way too fast to be able to measure a nicely weighted pass. This stuff is missing in all of 11-16.


Regarding fouls: the problem with fouls is sometimes it doesn't even recognize it's a foul when the incoming challenge makes contact with the legs in the animation. Even if the animations are varied, we'll still need the game to understand tackles or dispossession needs to be clean. In this regard, I liked PES14. Every clip of the heel is called. It's harsh, but it felt like I really needed to know I'm going to stop the ball and avoid the person when I make a stab or a tackle.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp892oGBkcE


I feel like they need to work on both getting the image correct, and then heavily tie the image into the resulting success rate of all actions. I have low confidence that it will work only with fixing animations. It's also the correlation of animation and the resulting success rate I'm most worried about.

 

[Edmundo 22]

Yes and no.

Yes your right, the key is giving the AI a chance to shoot there and you know your fucked, yes, its preventable with organised defending and making sure you look to anticipate the AI's path to goal t stop it happening before they get there and YES, tactics make the difference here with the AI who activley exploit any free spaces to pass to ahead of them.

No, because it's way too perfect, sometimes the AI literally put together an almost impossible perfect one touch move and score in the bottom corner, this issue here is actually more because of the very limited movement system whih gives litle variables to players balance when performing pass and shots.

The big overall issue is players are always in perfect balance because there is only 3 speeds of movement on the ball;

pace control (R2) / normal dribble / full sprint (tron running).

The shooting and passing mechanics at their core are the best in any football game by some distance, oeral thy are let down massively because there are little to no variables in when players shoot because thy are always too balanced on the ball.

The key, the million dollar question is have Konami improved the general movement system too be more sensitive like it was from 2011-2013 especially which will bring back the realism and depth.

It's too perfect because the the AI has gotten better at playing futebol compared with earlier versions. The one-touch passes they make to setup their striker CAN be defended, sometimes it does require a little luck, again like real futebol.

Balance is a variable when shooting, so is their preferred foot, the way they face the goal etc etc. Body balance plays a big role on whether an attacker can hold off a defender AND affects the quality of their shot while being tackled.

Yes i'm in Canada now :

What i mean is something i have said over and over and over all year and said since 2014.

Here is the post explaining what i mean:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3119020&postcount=8279

In the PES 2016 video you sprint (R1) in an almost straight line and call it looping of the animation. That's because that is what YOU are doing, you are sprinting in an almost straight line to what looks like a lower difficulty AI (no defense). In the second video, you claim the run is more dynamic and responsive.

The run in the second video you simply R1 but instead of going in an almost straight line like 1st video , you weave away from the defender while sprinting (R1). It doesnt look like looping because you weave as opposed to going in a straight line. PES 2016 you can also weave while sprinting. If you ran in a straight line and continue to R1, this would also look like a looping animation. Am I missing something ?

I guess I feel fine with players movement and freedom with 16', but I can see you prefer the movement in 13'.

 

[makavelli963]

PES needs to rediscover what made it great in the first place, then and only then will I consider jumping back in.

 

[ramgamer]

PES needs to rediscover what made it great in the first place, then and only then will I consider jumping back in.

not to rain on your parade but if u have a pc, try pes 2016 with yairgameplaypatch 2.5, for me this has made the game really good, there are still flaws with the fouls, but the game is much better now

 

[Lami]

not to rain on your parade but if u have a pc, try pes 2016 with yairgameplaypatch 2.5, for me this has made the game really good, there are still flaws with the fouls, but the game is much better now

What did yair's patch improve?

 

[GeladoBom]

Look who's here.

Nice mask adam hehehe.

 

[Elja]

What did yair's patch improve?

I tried some games in exhibition modes using the original exe then followed by yair's exe with the same teams. What I feel is the AI defense and goalkeepers are better. I could score 2 or more goals with the original game, but using Yair's patch scoring is more difficult. I haven't tried it in ML though.

 

[ramgamer]

What did yair's patch improve?

yairs patch improved the AI, now they attack different ways, and the goalkeepers are better aswell, they make saves now, u feel that at least there is a goalkeeper behind ur backline not like before, it's more enjoyable now, the cheating is still there but its not like before, now u can play ur own game and enjoy how the ai is attacking in different ways.for me i am enjoying it a lot now, since now i changed my play style, now i take time with the build up, i string passes btw backline and midfield, looking for an opening on the wings or in the middle, i mix it up a little btw direct game and more possession, it feels really good.

 

[klashman69]

In the PES 2016 video you sprint (R1) in an almost straight line and call it looping of the animation. That's because that is what YOU are doing, you are sprinting in an almost straight line to what looks like a lower difficulty AI (no defense). In the second video, you claim the run is more dynamic and responsive.

The run in the second video you simply R1 but instead of going in an almost straight line like 1st video , you weave away from the defender while sprinting (R1). It doesnt look like looping because you weave as opposed to going in a straight line. PES 2016 you can also weave while sprinting. If you ran in a straight line and continue to R1, this would also look like a looping animation. Am I missing something ?

I guess I feel fine with players movement and freedom with 16', but I can see you prefer the movement in 13'.

Hi, sorry i should of said this to clear my point regarding the sensitivity.

In PES 2013 you can 'tap' the sprint button which gives you short bursts of speed, or as i showed in the video 'quick steps'. only when i passed the defender i actually held down R1

In PES 2016, tapping the R1 button does nothing, you must hold the sprint button in to get him to sprint. When you hold the sprint button a looped animation starts for the purposes of responsiveness and stability, this looped animation was not in PES 2014 it was added in 2015/16 to improve general responsiveness.

 

[Edmundo 22]

Hi, sorry i should of said this to clear my point regarding the sensitivity.

In PES 2013 you can 'tap' the sprint button which gives you short bursts of speed, or as i showed in the video 'quick steps'. only when i passed the defender i actually held down R1

In PES 2016, tapping the R1 button does nothing, you must hold the sprint button in to get him to sprint. When you hold the sprint button a looped animation starts for the purposes of responsiveness and stability, this looped animation was not in PES 2014 it was added in 2015/16 to improve general responsiveness.

Oh sure, thanks for clarifying your point.

In PES 2016 you can get a short speed/sprint burst by pressing R1 and letting go quickly , just holding R1 in a bit longer than 'tapping'. But you can't keep doing that, you can only do it once OR keep holding R1 to continue sprinting. There is also 'double tap' R1 while sprinting which can give you even more pace.

 

[ramgamer]

I said it before and i say it again this game should be played wth normal shooting becuase playing in manual takes all the other animations like headers volleys first touch animation of dropped balls etc.i played extensively and i noticed it. This game we have to accept it that it was released not fully developped.

 

[stuartyd]

Re Online, if you get matched with someone who plays properly it can be ok but most games I'm playing against opponents who play long high throughballs as soon as they get possession (regardless of whereabouts on the pitch they are). I wouldn't mind if this handed me back possession 9 times out of 10 but it is a very effective tactic and leads to many 1v1 situations with defenders freezing or slowing down to allow the striker to get the ball.

The improvements I'd like to see are:

1. Reduced throughball effectiveness (high and low)from 20 yards plus

2. Fix advantage rule to play realisticaly

3. Much less scripting (locking and slowing my players)

4. Much MUCH more shooting variations and realistic goal types (not more scorpion goals etc just realistic finishes and ball trajectories)

5. Fix slow motion GK dives

6. Customisable cameras online

7. Fluid formation ON as default

8. .......and...errrr.......improved net physics (yes I'm one of those guys)

 

[ramgamer]

Re Online, if you get matched with someone who plays properly it can be ok but most games I'm playing against opponents who play long high throughballs as soon as they get possession (regardless of whereabouts on the pitch they are). I wouldn't mind if this handed me back possession 9 times out of 10 but it is a very effective tactic and leads to many 1v1 situations with defenders freezing or slowing down to allow the striker to get the ball.

The improvements I'd like to see are:

1. Reduced throughball effectiveness (high and low)from 20 yards plus

2. Fix advantage rule to play realisticaly

3. Much less scripting (locking and slowing my players)

4. Much MUCH more shooting variations and realistic goal types (not more scorpion goals etc just realistic finishes and ball trajectories)

5. Fix slow motion GK dives

6. Customisable cameras online

7. Fluid formation ON as default

8. .......and...errrr.......improved net physics (yes I'm one of those guys)

Agree net physics are better than before but still need work, agree on the realistic tragectories, like for example i find always ronaldo or karim benzema score that 180 turning shot in the bottom.corner right from 1st touch they get which is so annoying and unrealistic, plus the slow motion goalkeeper which is something i fail to understand til this day from konami

 

[Han]

Re Online, if you get matched with someone who plays properly it can be ok but most games I'm playing against opponents who play long high throughballs as soon as they get possession (regardless of whereabouts on the pitch they are). I wouldn't mind if this handed me back possession 9 times out of 10 but it is a very effective tactic and leads to many 1v1 situations with defenders freezing or slowing down to allow the striker to get the ball.

The improvements I'd like to see are:

1. Reduced throughball effectiveness (high and low)from 20 yards plus

2. Fix advantage rule to play realisticaly

3. Much less scripting (locking and slowing my players)

4. Much MUCH more shooting variations and realistic goal types (not more scorpion goals etc just realistic finishes and ball trajectories)

5. Fix slow motion GK dives

6. Customisable cameras online

7. Fluid formation ON as default

8. .......and...errrr.......improved net physics (yes I'm one of those guys)

I would add the pace of the game... far too high!
A game with an AI needs scripting. Scripting is a way of steering the game. Without it there is no AI.