- Staff
- #9,331
PES 2016 News & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter zeemeister
- Start date
Looks like the majority of the players here on Evo-Web don't play online. Is that because of the disappointing quality of the current online and / or the missing online modes, like Pro clubs in FIFA?
- Staff
- #9,333
Do they bring their styles with them, though? For sure? (I have no idea - it's great if they do, but I was under the impression that when you set team styles in the editor, you're setting them for the team, not the manager!)That guy was just about to link the same post
My biggest (and simplest) non-gameplay wish for PES is that they'd sort "team spirit" out in the ML. If it was less extreme, it would be my favourite new feature in a football game for years (yes, FIFA does it with Ultimate Team, but that doesn't count - it's not a mode that's supposed to be realistic). Especially if different managers with their different play-styles would affect it.
I don't think it's anything to do with missing modes. I think depending on what you're looking for, you can get a satisfying game out of the CPU, whereas online you've got lag-cheats and exploit whores in all modes.
Saying that, the flagship online modes in both PES and FIFA (myClub and FUT) are squarely aimed at kids, IMO - microtransaction-fests for those who don't want to struggle to a tactical win with a poorer team and just want to buy Messi, Ronaldo, Bale etc. from day fucking one.
I logged onto MyClub the other day and they've given away so many free points over the past few months that I can now buy 20-30 world class players... Without even kicking a ball. Which hammers home that "it's for kids" point:
A) Where's the achievement in that? Isn't that totally boring? Apparently not, because when you play online in any other mode, you only ever play against Real Madrid and PSG. It's about winning, to them, not about thinking.
B) When you pass a certain team level, you need a more "powerful" manager, and those cost "stars" - which, without waiting for a couple of weeks (or more), involves real money. That's not a coincidence, is it.
To be honest, I don't blame Konami for taking that route. They're a business. But boy, it's shit to see, isn't it.
EDIT: Just to add, for balance... It's the same in FIFA too. They have "bronze" and "silver" parts to FUT, which is an attempt at satisfying guys like me who want to start from the bottom and work towards something.
But even on the day of release, finding another player with the same mindset was impossible. I've managed to find about 3-4 opponents in the "Bronze Cup". (Playing on the Xbox One doesn't help, but still.)
They both know their audience, and it ain't me any more. It's the 10-year-old with money to burn who won't play a game until they've spent enough to get a max-chemistry line-up.
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chiefrocka4real
Champions League
Very true unfortunately.
With PES 2015 that GP rain started.
You got thrown at with free points for every little crap you did, like a stripper with dollars.
But that was the problem with MLO since PES 2012 either.
You could have the star players Ronaldo, Messi etc way too soon.
PES 2011 had the best MLO. It was a struggle to get the top players.
But yeah, as you say: looks like a marketing thing to keep the kids attracted.
Even with all the flaws and the dislikes I have towards the game I would play 2vs2 if there was a 2vs2 lobby just to enjoy the positives I have with this game.
I remember playing 2vs2´s on PES 6 - 2010.
Can´t remember since when it´s gone.
Gotta say though that I´d love to ttry that 11vs11 thing.
Been watching these guys vids a few times and it looked like its fun, even sometimes there´s not much of a midfield play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd18S1jfB2Y
- Staff
- #9,335
Have you checked the screenshots? Different formations, different Attacking/Defensive instructions for both attacking and defensive tactics.
- Staff
- #9,336
Didn't see any screenshots, sorry - that's brilliant!
gabe.paul.logan
Retired Footballer
1, more stats for the players for more player individuality (i think that would solve the too precise passing and shooting issue aswell)
2, more depth to team ID, for that use some of the tactic elements from old games, those positioning arrows, the intelligent change in formation depending on the situation u guys mentioned
3, more animations as the game at the moment compared to older PES games and compared to FIFA feels like missing some animations in places
4, somehow need to solve this stadium issue, maybe invest in a very detailed online editor(not to violate any licences) where users can put together stadiums and u can download them in your game
5, online, i just loved PES 6's online mode, it has a very basic solution where in one half u were the host, next half the opponent but still it was much more fair as u could have very good matches with great connection aswell if your opponent was close to u. i think even that would make more sense than go online and have 1-2 seconds of lag in every game
2, more depth to team ID, for that use some of the tactic elements from old games, those positioning arrows, the intelligent change in formation depending on the situation u guys mentioned
3, more animations as the game at the moment compared to older PES games and compared to FIFA feels like missing some animations in places
4, somehow need to solve this stadium issue, maybe invest in a very detailed online editor(not to violate any licences) where users can put together stadiums and u can download them in your game
5, online, i just loved PES 6's online mode, it has a very basic solution where in one half u were the host, next half the opponent but still it was much more fair as u could have very good matches with great connection aswell if your opponent was close to u. i think even that would make more sense than go online and have 1-2 seconds of lag in every game
- Thread starter
- #9,338
zeemeister
foxy engine
I agree if I want a CF to attack and defend I get one with a track back attribute. If I want a offensive SB I get one that plays that way. Using arrows imo would be a step back.
Panthera1
Championship
- 4 February 2004
In 2010 you used to be able to tell the side back to be offensive or defensive and I think other roles to players before a match. or you had the ability to turn cards off or on. Can't remember 100%. I think a players having set cards is wrong and a bit simplistic. In real life if the player wants to attack or defend is more down to the manager. I think stats should be setup so a player might have a certain offensive or defensive attributes (and other attri) and their ability to follow the manager instructions could be linked to them. You should have alot more options for controlling your players in tactics
Can't you do that with fluid formation? Or even game plan 2 and 3. Can even have man marking toggle on and off if you need to. I think that has a higher level of detail, if it really behaves how it says it would.
Say for example if you have a problem with a player always finding space to take a shot from outside your box, you can have fluid formation to send you DM back, or even turn a CM into an extra DM, so you have 2 DMs protecting that zone. If you need any further protection, you can even turn on man marking on your secondary game plan.
Likewise, you can make your wingers run forward or come back. You can do this with the secondary game plan, if you want to toggle it as you play (so that they won't make unnecessary runs). Or if you think you want to have it happen all the time in every attack, just use fluid formations to set it up.
I think the level of specificity is far greater using these methods, than to tell the guy to come back, go foward. This way you actually know exactly what orders you are giving him. You can even change his roles in the process (CF to LWF, LWF to CF swap....etc.) If you want a diagonal run, program him to make a diagonal run, quite simple. The tools are already there in my opinion. Just gotta get creative in visualizing the events you want to see on the field, and then implement them in formation settings.
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- Thread starter
- #9,341
zeemeister
foxy engine
Really not sure what's right.
I know Dani Alves is a player that likes to get forward and barca gameplan has him bombing up and down the flanks. If I undo that bt changing their nature am I not moving away from player individuality?
If I saw I was in front and wanted better stability at the back I could change for a defensive side back or one that I know is not going to join attacks due to his player card and high attack attribute.
To me this would add depth when buying a team rather than having a squad and altering who they are to fit into a new game plan. If I want to turn barca into real Madrid I shouldn't be allowed to do that just using tactical changes.
I know Dani Alves is a player that likes to get forward and barca gameplan has him bombing up and down the flanks. If I undo that bt changing their nature am I not moving away from player individuality?
If I saw I was in front and wanted better stability at the back I could change for a defensive side back or one that I know is not going to join attacks due to his player card and high attack attribute.
To me this would add depth when buying a team rather than having a squad and altering who they are to fit into a new game plan. If I want to turn barca into real Madrid I shouldn't be allowed to do that just using tactical changes.
robbieryan
I dream of occasional fanzine mentions
I don't think that's the answer either. You should be able to tell ANY player to try and do a specific thing, whether they do it well or even at all should be down to numerous things. Team spirit (it would be an effective way to utilise this feature) /manager affinity in ML plus attributes. The player card type attributes should be to signify 'if you want a player to do this specific job, this is the player for you' ie. Simply a guideline for the user plus a little boost in attributes or whatever. If for example you decide to give adebayor a specific instruction to close down the ball playing defender, it'll be your fault but you shod still be able to tell him to do it on the first place.
As an aside from that, if I gave adebayor an instruction to defend the front post from corners I would 100% expect him to do that every time, but that goes back to my (constant) point about being able to set up set pieces properly. I want my bof centre forward defending corners not standing idly on half way!
I think we had a similar discussion few years back, I thought it'd be nice to have a player stat called "tactical discipline" - how well does your player follow instructions. Simply give it a rating of 1-4, like injury resistance, that'd be nice to have. Not sure if that can satisfy all the concerns. I'm still not sure if I want the ability to turn off player cards tho.
Right now, I think offensive fullbacks can stay back if you force them to play as wide CB (which will make them play as wide CBs, perhaps looking a little lost, not covering spaces perfectly, not staying as wide as you'd like. But they won't be storming forward. It's basically a trade-off); can also try to move them very deep as a sideback, which I've never tried; another idea would be to have numbers in attack set to few, but that's more of a macro decision.
Agree with having set piece planning. The offball player control in set pieces is a really cheap way to make things happen in set pieces, especially that first pass, it basically just goes to player regardless of power and passing angle. The movement and positioning you envision should be drilled. Plus, the players should be moving by themselves to find space anyhow. Like the throw ins in the current game, if you wait long enough, the players start to move by themselves to find space. This offball teammate control thing is really just a forced and stiff way to create movement and space in set pieces, should be happening without our interference. In fact, I don't really like teammate controls in open play either. Should have to do more with how tactics are set up, and player individuality. Positioning and the type of supporting movement is part of an individual player's inherent football intelligence and tendencies.
Right now, I think offensive fullbacks can stay back if you force them to play as wide CB (which will make them play as wide CBs, perhaps looking a little lost, not covering spaces perfectly, not staying as wide as you'd like. But they won't be storming forward. It's basically a trade-off); can also try to move them very deep as a sideback, which I've never tried; another idea would be to have numbers in attack set to few, but that's more of a macro decision.
Agree with having set piece planning. The offball player control in set pieces is a really cheap way to make things happen in set pieces, especially that first pass, it basically just goes to player regardless of power and passing angle. The movement and positioning you envision should be drilled. Plus, the players should be moving by themselves to find space anyhow. Like the throw ins in the current game, if you wait long enough, the players start to move by themselves to find space. This offball teammate control thing is really just a forced and stiff way to create movement and space in set pieces, should be happening without our interference. In fact, I don't really like teammate controls in open play either. Should have to do more with how tactics are set up, and player individuality. Positioning and the type of supporting movement is part of an individual player's inherent football intelligence and tendencies.
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robbieryan
I dream of occasional fanzine mentions
A Tactical discipline stat is a great idea. Not only would it work for giving players specific instructions it would work with the new system in ML which shows what tactics a player best responds to. If for example a player is used to playing in a compact defence, but your tactics require players to be spread out the tactical discipline stat could ALSO be used to show the user how likely that player will be able to adapt to the new tactics quickly. In both situations it would be the same, essentially 'how hard will this player work to match that the tactics the manager defines, regardless of their ability to do that'
No Zee. You should be able to tell your players whatever you want. The difference should be how effective they are doing so. You can ask your whole team to track/sit back but at the same time it doesn't mean it's best option; they might not be disciplined enough or even good at it.
Yeah they could try to code it where players that aren't used to playing under those instructions to work only 50 percent of the time, good example of this is Moreno from Liverpool, playing as a side back and being instructed to be defensive doesn't work that well for him,
- Thread starter
- #9,347
zeemeister
foxy engine
I hear you bro. Both the arrow and current system has flaws. Agreed that you must be able instruct the player but the effectiveness of the tactics is down to his own attributes.
gabe.paul.logan
Retired Footballer
im probaly wrong here as i havent played that much with 2016 except the demo, but it feels like there isnt much difference between keepers this year.
i mean i clearly remember that the only sweeper keeper in 2015 was Neuer, here there are many with these ability wich makes him less unique. i know in real life there are more keepers who do that but lets face it...not that much.
also Neuer feels like a god with these sweeping abilites just like all the other keepers...again abilities dont effect much the keepers i feel altough in reality many keepers fail with these rushing out moves because they are clumsy, slower, cant pass good enough or tackle.
but someone could clear this up for me whos playing ML for a long time hows this playing out this year?
/btw keepers is the best thing that happened to PES since Adam took over, they got a loads of new abilites so im hoping next year the outfield players gets also more new ones to make them more distinguishable/
I mean altogether who else does thing like this? Its like back in the days Chilavert was THE keeper who you wanted for freekicks and for penalties altough he was old and slow as fu*k.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOqLOTN75x8
i mean i clearly remember that the only sweeper keeper in 2015 was Neuer, here there are many with these ability wich makes him less unique. i know in real life there are more keepers who do that but lets face it...not that much.
also Neuer feels like a god with these sweeping abilites just like all the other keepers...again abilities dont effect much the keepers i feel altough in reality many keepers fail with these rushing out moves because they are clumsy, slower, cant pass good enough or tackle.
but someone could clear this up for me whos playing ML for a long time hows this playing out this year?
/btw keepers is the best thing that happened to PES since Adam took over, they got a loads of new abilites so im hoping next year the outfield players gets also more new ones to make them more distinguishable/
I mean altogether who else does thing like this? Its like back in the days Chilavert was THE keeper who you wanted for freekicks and for penalties altough he was old and slow as fu*k.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOqLOTN75x8
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gabe.paul.logan
Retired Footballer
btw as an improvement. i would like to see something on spot kicks. just like what FIFA did with the corners BUT this time for all the spot kicks you should be able to tell the players where and how to move because most of the spot kicks are useless in both titles
The keepers have improved slightly since release but the only to the level the animations allow , they still dive slow at times and also still can't stretch out fully..the AI keepers also stay on the line when through far too much
I want arrows back for sure. It was deeper. Now, if attack/defensive levels are brought back into tactics (whispers are its making comeback) then that should "in theory" eliminate the attack-minded SB from bombing forward constantly if you drop down to defensive levels.
- Thread starter
- #9,352
zeemeister
foxy engine
Why don't we just undo everything and make PES 6 again? Then we can all accuse Konami of being stagnant and old.
gabe.paul.logan
Retired Footballer
Well Konami always take the risk to build a completely new game in every 3-4 yrs since 2007. Its in the possibilities that not all the new ideas might work out.
And FIFA fans also hate on FIFA since its the same since 2007 basicly, except they improved the gameplay, graphics and tactic elements...i have no idea why fans do that tho. FIFA is more consistent in this department. PES should have stayed the same as it was in the PS2 era if u look back at the past. Shouldnt?
And FIFA fans also hate on FIFA since its the same since 2007 basicly, except they improved the gameplay, graphics and tactic elements...i have no idea why fans do that tho. FIFA is more consistent in this department. PES should have stayed the same as it was in the PS2 era if u look back at the past. Shouldnt?
The problem with Konami is they do bring good ideas to the table.. But a lot of times they aren't implemented properly. Plus, they took things out over the years that were beneficial to the depth of the gameplay.
Look at FIFA's tactical system. It's essential PS2 PES minus the ability to switch formations on the fly. All they did was give stuff cute names like "park the bus"
ramgamer
La Liga
- 22 July 2013
- fc barcelona
Agree for me the main problem is companies still cant do the perfect football game, i mean pes can be fixed because at the base pes 2016 is a really good game.
They absolutely should fix
Ai difficulty its too unrealistic how ruthless any team can be on top player and superstar difficulty
This bottom corner low shot goal is getting on my nerves and the inability for keepers to do something when in 1 on 1 situation by doing this slow motion jump is just so irritating.
For me these are the main things at least they are 1 or 2 things that they should know how to fix.i mean it cant be like this we are in 2016 and we cant even make a game like pes 5 or 6 but with modern animations and graphics. Why is it so hard???
ramgamer
La Liga
- 22 July 2013
- fc barcelona
I think fifa s penalty system is very good nothing need to change there
Even though the new patch was good. . .. the bottom low corner shots have gotten worse .. .practically every goal! Can anyone with tech knowledge explain why they can't vary the shooting?
Mafia Murder Bag
Conference
- 22 July 2014
I'm not an expert but in simple terms, I think on PES it must have something to do with an algorithm that just decides what type of shot power and direction is going to be triggered in certain situations and there just not alot of range in that Algorithm on this game.
That's my theory. In FIFA they've built an engine that calculates player momentum, body position, ball physics and trajectory. That's why there's so much variation on Human controlled shooting and combined with the influence of the varying difficulty level algorithms, the AI has more diversity in shooting on that game.
That's interesting . .thanks!