PES 2016 News & Discussion Thread

Nice discussion guys.

I believe that the way forward should be for the developers to concentrate on the online money making modes, But to give the offline users more sliders and customizable prowess.
This way they won't be scrutinized for the poor unfinished AI and yet each user can create their own offline gameplay experience just as they like.

Jenkey's gameplay patches made PES 2013 a very good game when we were able to change a lot of the physics and AI configurations.

For example if PES 2016 had had a gk ability ,ref strictness ,shot power sliders I think that'd have saved the game this year. Add to that a user friendly stadium,kit,face,camera editor and it'd be able to take away a lot of fifa's offline customers.
 
ThomasGOAL said:
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:LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO:
 
Chris Davies said:
Ditto, although obviously, it's an incredibly difficult job. I've said it before but when I was lucky enough to visit EA's complex in Vancouver, the late (and great) Simon Humber asked why I never played the game online, and when I told him why, he said that it was "his dream" to create a football game where you could only beat someone else by having superior knowledge of football and the footballers on the pitch, rather than finding weak areas of gameplay that could be exploited and winning by playing the same way every single game.

I hope it eventually happens, even if it isn't considered "fun enough" to many (my other football-game-related dream is for a decent online manager mode, none of this card-game and/or bingo-ball rubbish...)
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You're just describing real life football too. That's what managers and players do every game.

I know you mean game broken exploits. Just playing with you.

zeemeister said:
This this and this.

PES 2011 was like this you could counter any and as a result could take on Brazil with South Africa and win just through tactical setups and gameplay. That's near impossible now due to the scripting. If you going for a 50/50 ball as an example the game overrides whatever inputs there may be to give the higher rated player the upper hand.

It's so wrong.
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I can't really say 100% I can't do this with PES 2016, but I can remember being able to setup great tactics and winning with against friends with teams like Iran, Chievo, etc vs them being Brazil, Argentina, Holland, Milan, Real, you name it.

They used to go furious. I just laughed to rub it in further.

yasujiro said:
In PS2 era PES games didn't have speed selector, when the game was running too fast for my taste I edited the stats of Acceleration and Speed of all the players to tune in the gameplay and make it slower. In PES 2016 I find too easy to score from outside the box so I put down -20 the stats Finishing and Kicking power of all the players of my team and the game is now more challenging.

I think it's a great idea for next versions of the game to have a configuration screen when users can adjust general speed, dribbling and shooting of the game itself to please all types of players in CPU vs matches.
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Does this work for manual? I don't think stats matter too much for manual. And yes I do hope we get sliders next.
 
As much as we'd love to have an actual game of football online where tactics and knowledge in your team or in the sport will win (ideal), it won't happen because at the end of the day, this is a game. In all games, there are always areas that people can exploit. Be it speed, low shots, physicality, etc. Because its all just code and repetitive playing/coding will always generate the same results/exploits unlike an actual match of football in real life where many many factors can happen and make the same set-up leading to a different result.

That's always the problem with sport games because coding can never truly generate randomness. And people who play them want to win and win at all costs. (We are the very few that would actually enjoy a well played loss) Thus, I never play online cause it just doesn't suit my style. To play competitive or to win, I must exploit what the other person is doing by countering them and doing the same thing.

Anywayz,the only way for Konami to really settle this is either to reduce the number of exploits available, or provide sliders for people to custom the game to whichever way they like it. Some like tactical-base where through tactics, an underdog can beat a world champion, where others may feel that is "unrealistic" and would like it where the world champions should face no difficulty versus those league 2 sides. Others may want individuality where players play/feel differently and errors occur because those players aren't as skillful, where as others may want the players to be true representations of the user and able to pass exactly where the user wants because he is in control....

But sliders are tough to do in games. It's not as easy as just putting it there because there is lots of coding to do, lots of balancing to do where the user can just slide it one way or another, but the codes have to be able to interpret it and present it where it's like a different game with every variable changed (and that's a lot of coding).
 
ss4_goku said:
As much as we'd love to have an actual game of football online where tactics and knowledge in your team or in the sport will win (ideal), it won't happen because at the end of the day, this is a game. In all games, there are always areas that people can exploit. Be it speed, low shots, physicality, etc. Because its all just code and repetitive playing/coding will always generate the same results/exploits unlike an actual match of football in real life where many many factors can happen and make the same set-up leading to a different result.

That's always the problem with sport games because coding can never truly generate randomness. And people who play them want to win and win at all costs. (We are the very few that would actually enjoy a well played loss) Thus, I never play online cause it just doesn't suit my style. To play competitive or to win, I must exploit what the other person is doing by countering them and doing the same thing.

Anywayz,the only way for Konami to really settle this is either to reduce the number of exploits available, or provide sliders for people to custom the game to whichever way they like it. Some like tactical-base where through tactics, an underdog can beat a world champion, where others may feel that is "unrealistic" and would like it where the world champions should face no difficulty versus those league 2 sides. Others may want individuality where players play/feel differently and errors occur because those players aren't as skillful, where as others may want the players to be true representations of the user and able to pass exactly where the user wants because he is in control....

But sliders are tough to do in games. It's not as easy as just putting it there because there is lots of coding to do, lots of balancing to do where the user can just slide it one way or another, but the codes have to be able to interpret it and present it where it's like a different game with every variable changed (and that's a lot of coding).
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Great post ss4-goku. . best explanation I've read on the subject. Some of the guys were talking earlier about having a chance of beating a top team with a weaker team in older Pes games. I recall playing in a couple of older Pes editions and using Iran and also Saudia Arabia to win the International league and beating Netherlands and other top teams 3-0 etc on the hardest levels. Either those weaker teams had some hidden attributes or I'm a tactical genius which I'm not. I don't think it's possible to truly simulate a real match there's too many variables to take into account. I watched the video of the 14 yr old beating the world champion and even though it was high speed ping pong the kid was very skilfil and astute in his moves.
 
Lami said:
You're just describing real life football too. That's what managers and players do every game.

I know you mean game broken exploits. Just playing with you.



I can't really say 100% I can't do this with PES 2016, but I can remember being able to setup great tactics and winning with against friends with teams like Iran, Chievo, etc vs them being Brazil, Argentina, Holland, Milan, Real, you name it.

They used to go furious. I just laughed to rub it in further.



Does this work for manual? I don't think stats matter too much for manual. And yes I do hope we get sliders next.
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I can't get used to analog sticks. I always play with D-pad (since ISS PRO 98), so I can't play manual. I always play 30 min matches on 1 passing assistance. Before lowering the stats results were 7-4, 10-2... Now results are more realistic 0-2, 4-3, 3-3....
 
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klashman69 said:
legend.

Jim Beglin was actually good in PES 2016, the commentary is better than FIFA. EA still destroys PES in overall matchday presentation but the commentary towards what happens ingame is just dry.

It will only get better in the future aswell.
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what's great about the commentary is i'm still finding new contextual lines when playing master league. a player that was out on loan the season before, when making his first start the next season will have a mention in the pre-game build up. i know that's basic but for PES it's brilliant!
 
robbieryan said:
what's great about the commentary is i'm still finding new contextual lines when playing master league. a player that was out on loan the season before, when making his first start the next season will have a mention in the pre-game build up. i know that's basic but for PES it's brilliant!
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Yes these things are always welcomed, career in Fifa did nail this well with comments etc and the more dynamic it can be in later PES versions the better.
 
Guys, if you had to list your Top 5 improvements you'd like to see for PES 2017 in order what would they be?

Here's mine:

1) Defensive A.I./ Awareness
2) Attacking A.I./Variety
3) Individuality-contextual animations for players is cool but I need deep stats to feel greatness from average
4) Ball Physics- shooting, passing freedom and error more representative of real life and stat based
5) Realistic animations especially turning animations and players having more weight (hearing a LARGE portion of PES 2017's budget is for mo-cap)

Honorable mention: Keepers,refs, game speed, removing passing filters,
 
B-Man said:
Guys, if you had to list your Top 5 improvements you'd like to see for PES 2017 in order what would they be?

Here's mine:

1) Defensive A.I./ Awareness
2) Attacking A.I./Variety
3) Individuality-contextual animations for players is cool but I need deep stats to feel greatness from average
4) Ball Physics- shooting, passing freedom and error more representative of real life and stat based
5) Realistic animations especially turning animations and players having more weight (hearing a LARGE portion of PES 2017's budget is for mo-cap)

Honorable mention: Keepers,refs, game speed, removing passing filters,
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I am surprised you don't speak about online at all.
Especially the speed is far the high.

My list would be: ( in this order )
1. Online speed must be lower
2. Bring in an online mode, similar to FIFA Pro-club mode
3. More fouls from the AI, and of course stricter referees.
4. Defensive A.I./ Awareness
5. Attacking A.I./Variety
 
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1 less scripting
2 more fouls
3 individuality for teams (Barcelona plays like tikitaka, Leicester plays counter attacking football, Spurs press high
4 more player individuality
5 tactically much deeper (for example, now it is impossible to play like Spurs: Side backs become wingbacks when attacking, and Dier becomes a classic CB and bot the Vertonghen and Alderweireld play a role between CB and side back).
 
I think you've covered most things there B-man but I agree with Gerd on team individuality . . .it's very important and would make it feel fresh each time you played a match. I hope this is an intelligence gathering mission that you're on . . a middle man is better than a petition anyday.
 
I don't really play online with PES sorry guys. That list was my own personal list!

Here is the problem I have with team I.D....

Every team plays different depending on the situation. PES does a poor job with situational football, an area they excelled in back on the PS2 console.

Sure I want Barca to play tiki take if they are playing from out of the back, but if they recover the ball from pressing high up the pitch then they should counter attack like they do in real life. It's interest, if you cut the pitch into thirds. Practically every team in world football plays differently offensively and defensively depending where the ball is on the pitch and if they have the ball or their opponent. They also change tactics depending if they are a goal down or a goal up later in matches.

PS2 PES, while it didn't have Team I.D., atleast understood situational football. Go play PES6, if you are up a goal or two 60min into the match you'll notice the CPU A.I. will take a DMF or a CB off and bring on an attacking player. they may switch from from a 4-4-2 to a 3-4-3 with the team's attack/defensive level in red for the rest of the match. It was little things like this that made every match feel different.

The best Team I.D. we've had recently was the PES 2015 demo. Each team in that demo was vastly different. The problem however, is there wasn't a plan B for teams. Take Real Madrid for example in that demo. There offensive tactic was long ball counter attack. EVERY TIME they gained possession it was a long ball counter attack. After a couple match defending against Real Madrid was easy because you knew exactly what they were going to do every time. Same with Barca, you know even if you lost the ball from there pressing on your side of the pitch that they were going to play tiki take instead of understanding the situation and counter attacking.

So in a way, the current tactical setup and the way it is used by the developers does more to limit variety then create variety.
 
Well it has improved since the dlc I've noticed the ai changing tactics to fit the situation. If they go ahead they change to defensive and if they go behind they change to aggressive attack. . .they also waste time, play keep ball and commit a couple of tasty professional fouls which is great. But you can't have every team using the same tactics.
 
1. A bigger error margin for basic settings and all pass assistance levels so we can have more shooting and passing outcomes. bigger error margin for the AI the stop the clinical ruthlessness and make the game more natural.

2. Cleverer and adaptable AI which responds to the match situation better and doesn't do stupid things. Ie. I want to see the AI leave/shepherd the ball out of play and not touch it as its going out for a goalkick under no pressure. I also don't want to be able to rob the last defender so easily (especially in situations where play has just restarted)

3. Slower default game speed to make the game more realistic and therefore more playable online

4. Referees and fouls... No brainier

5. Massive improvement and variation of set piece situations with some sort of ability to choose routines or tactical preferences for routines

And that's just gameplay suggestions...
 
Sometimes, I miss the arrows where you can get a player to move back when the team is attacking, or a player to move right when defending, etc...cause it makes for much better tactics than just setting the overall team feel as then you can assign certain players to do certain things like having DM moving sideways to cover for holes when the sidebacks rush forward on overlaps, etc.....that was fun. Sad they took it out.
 
ss4_goku said:
Sometimes, I miss the arrows where you can get a player to move back when the team is attacking, or a player to move right when defending, etc...cause it makes for much better tactics than just setting the overall team feel as then you can assign certain players to do certain things like having DM moving sideways to cover for holes when the sidebacks rush forward on overlaps, etc.....that was fun. Sad they took it out.
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Absolutely! Well said. Miss these details :CRY:
 
gerd said:
Oh,vi forgot the arrows, would like them back too.
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These simple things PES excelled at back then should have always stayed. You felt directly connected to the players telling them exactly what to do and where to move on the pitch. Changing a winning formula just for the sake of refreshing or looking different doesn't always work well.
 
ss4_goku said:
Sometimes, I miss the arrows where you can get a player to move back when the team is attacking, or a player to move right when defending, etc...cause it makes for much better tactics than just setting the overall team feel as then you can assign certain players to do certain things like having DM moving sideways to cover for holes when the sidebacks rush forward on overlaps, etc.....that was fun. Sad they took it out.
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that's what fluid formation is supposed to counter, I think it works mostly but what it definitely doesn't account for is getting a centre forward to defend properly or wing backs.

I said in another post that i can't seem to control when my wingbacks attack or stay back anywhere in the tactics. that would be a good improvement as it can really fuck up your team shape when they bomb forward without being asked to.

Other than that i'm not sure the arrows are needed anymore
 
Yes, Fluid Formation "should" be used and replacing the arrows, however, the fluid formation choices are very limited. And most teams don't even have it for default. You have to set it for every team.
 
I'm playing PES series since ISS PRO 98 and after EURO DLC patch PES 2016 PS3 version is the best representation of football in gaming so far. I've only put down Finishing and Kicking Power -10 in all the players of my team (Real Madrid) to make game more challenging. The pace in -1 speed is perfect. In Superstar difficulty the game is amazing and for the first time in this series I can't notice any CPU 'cheating' code in Superstar difficulty. I'd like PS4 version had the same gameplay tan PS3 version.
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
Would be good if the team individuality changed depending on whos the manager
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Agreed - I think it's great that they've got managers in the game (and I bet FIFA can't feature them and have them move around for licensing reasons). It'd be great if they had play-styles too.
 
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