goonerjunglist
Conference
- 10 September 2005
could one of u guys tell me how to do this super cancel business on the xbox. i have seen commands for the ps2 but i dont know what the buttons are for xbox. anybody know how its done on xbox?
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Thats obviously wrong cuz if you do the test that I suggested, it would prove your point wrong. If you take a player in training and tried a one on one attempt, if you can build up the bar to the same level and hold the same direction every time, you'll always get the same result. If what you were saying is true then something different would happen.ClassicD said:Helping out the inferior player, here's how that works. A good player used to be able to convert 90%+ of their chances because they knew what to press and when to press it. A rookie player would convert far less chances because they didn't know what to press and when to press it. When the game evolves to the point where it introduces a more random element, where it decides and shots go in the wrong direction, this penalises the better player who could finish their chances - it doesn't penalise someone who missed them anyway. Understand?
By that I mean things like not pressing a button long enough or not adding the right amount of power to shots, etc.ClassicD said:I'll also never be convinced I'm pressing "the wrong buttons".
Theres two different issues here. One is the AI of the computer which DOES cheat cuz it supposed to like in all games, which we all (or atleast most) agree on. The second is when you say the computer also controls YOUR fate which it clearly doesnt cuz it can be tested and proven as I suggested above. When the CPU cheats, it can only control itself, it doesnt take control of your players too.ClassicD said:Not to mention, earlier on you said that it's better the game has this interference because it makes it more like real football, "anything can happen". So which is it, you're contradicting yourself here?
RuneEdge said:Theres two different issues here. One is the AI of the computer which DOES cheat cuz it supposed to like in all games, which we all (or atleast most) agree on. The second is when you say the computer also controls YOUR fate which it clearly doesnt cuz it can be tested and proven as I suggested above. When the CPU cheats, it can only control itself, it doesnt take control of your players too.
:roll:RuneEdge said:Well if you were gonna respond to different opinions with a "I dont give a shit what you think" approach, what was the point of this thread?
RuneEdge said:As for the lesson in Super Cancelling, its to show people here that it can be used against the CPU when you think they are restricting your control. If you cant do anything with Super Cancelling, you only have yourself to blame.
There were arrows in the old versions as well, so that is a moot point!RuneEdge said:You do realise that small things like the arrows showing the players form and fatigue have a huge effect on the game? If your form is in red, that player would get a huge boost in most of his stats (as shown in that table that Konami released) and once your fatigue in a game is below half, your physical stats have a massive reduction too.
I've had games where my keeper just stood there when people took shots on goal. Of course this is the kind of thing you blame the game for but when I go to the formation screen, I see that his form was bad which then reduced his stats (the gk was shit to start with so that didnt help things either).
As I said, the CPU does cheat when its playing but it never does anything to affect what happens when YOU control things.
So you're telling me that you tried to clear the ball but instead the player heads it into his own net as if he was playing for the opposite team? If thats the case that I dont know what you're talking about cuz I've never experienced that in my life and I've played the game long enough that people have called me a weirdo.ClassicD said:Let me try, one more time, to make this clear. The AI took control of my player, and scored into my own net. I pressed header in completely the opposite direction, and not only did it ignore that command, it went a step further and issued it's own. I did not press the wrong button. It is nothing to do with super-cancel. It is nothing to do with form arrows.
ClassicD said:There were arrows in the old versions as well, so that is a moot point!
You are repeating yourself again.
Let me try, one more time, to make this clear. The AI took control of my player, and scored into my own net. I pressed header in completely the opposite direction, and not only did it ignore that command, it went a step further and issued it's own. I did not press the wrong button. It is nothing to do with super-cancel. It is nothing to do with form arrows.
This is my view. Accept that this is my view. Stop telling me and other people who have these views, that they're just doing something wrong. You either accept that people have a different opinion, or you are saying they're lying.
GIVE IT A FUCKING REST.
RuneEdge said:As I said, the CPU does cheat when its playing but it never does anything to affect what happens when YOU control things.
winston said:Oh, but it most certainly does and so you are completely wrong in that assertion.
You can choose to believe what you want but the fact that you've never noticed it happening is no proof that it does not happen.
When the guy I'm supposedly controlling completely changes direction from that which I'm pressing on my controller, even for a split second, then that is AI engine taking control away from me....cheating. When the guy I'm supposed to be controlling has his speed reduced for a second in order to prevent him reaching a loose ball before a cpu guy, but his speed returns to normal as soon as the cpu player has reached the ball, that is that is AI engine taking control away from me....cheating.
You've never noticed this sort of thing happening? Well, bully for you, mate. I wish I could be as ignorant.
Fair point but this also means that just cuz you saw something happen, its also wrong to assume why or how it happened (in your case, the CPU taking over control).winston said:You can choose to believe what you want but the fact that you've never noticed it happening is no proof that it does not happen.
RuneEdge said:Fair point but this also means that just cuz you saw something happen, its also wrong to assume why or how it happened (in your case, the CPU taking over control).
Seabass clearly states in the official guide that every situation is decided using calculations that take into account things such as your stats, fatigue, etc. If for example you were one on one with the keeper, things like your shooting stats, you position in relation to the keeper and the goal, whether or not the player is in form, etc are all used to calulate your odds of scoring. And then theres the keepers stats, fatigue, etc that you also have to take into consideration. Without these calculations, the odds would remain 50/50. But once you take into account all the details, then the odds are made to favour one person or the other and making the situation into a 30/70 or a 10/90 situation. Now just cuz you have a 10% chance of missing, it doesnt mean its impossible for it to happen. But when you DO miss, you seem to call it "CPU interfering".
Its like tossing a coin. If you called heads but you got tails, would you sasy the coin interfered with you? Of course not. Its just a probable outcome that didnt go your way. Theres no one to blame for it.
Its the same with this game, if the game made a calculation and it didnt favour you, theres no one to blame for it. The only thing you can do is tip the scale in your favour even further by increasing your odds (for example, moving into an even better position to shoot for goal).
This is why I say you have more control in this game.
Do I need to explain myself again? When they say the AI cheats, they mean exactly that, the CPU's AI. And this isnt anything unusual cuz most modern games cheat in that sense. So this is something we all (including Konami) agree on.winston said:I think this thread is not about whether or not the game cheats, because Konami admit it cheats (so goodness knows why people still deny it).
Yes, that is exactly what happened.RuneEdge said:So you're telling me that you tried to clear the ball but instead the player heads it into his own net as if he was playing for the opposite team? If thats the case that I dont know what you're talking about cuz I've never experienced that in my life and I've played the game long enough that people have called me a weirdo.
Not sure what you mean here.ClassicD said:As mentioned, how do you explain stuff like the 'baby-steps' your players sometimes decide to take until the AI player is nearer the ball, apon which they are then 'released' and able to run freely again?
Again, this is against the CPU. Whats the problem when two humans play?ClassicD said:Ok, the ball breaks loose, and your instruct your selected player to dash after it. At the same time, an AI player is attempting to get to the loose ball too, but he's clearly going to lose out because he's too far away. Your player then stops his dash and starts taking tiny steps, slowing down, until the AI player who has ran at full speed the entire time, is nearer to the ball than your player. As soon as he's clearly going to get to the ball first, the game 'releases' your player from it's grip and lets you re-assume control of him again, but of course by this time it's too late.
The thing is if you watch a replay of the incident, you can actually see the game fucking with your man. Sometimes he'll do a strange animation, and other times he'll do the animation for a full-on, sprint, but move at an extremely slow speed.
Super-cancel does nothing here.