The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[CalcioCalabrese]

Shooting is broken and very very limited. calcio calabrese and jimmy defend what cannot possibile be defendeded. then again blaming players and not the game is very cheap for something that is clearly a major issue in the game.

I repeat my idea: using right analog for different types of shooting so we can decide what kinda of thing we want to pull off. like in nhl and nba. very easy.

I do wonder what the hell were konami thinking when they implemented 1 single ugly presenation for all the stadia based on gardeners...amsusing. This game is a 0/10 in terms of audio and presentation, you never have the feeling you are immersed in a football game. which is very bad. PES3 had the feeling for example.

Personally pes 2011 is the best footie to date, much better than pes 2012 and fifa 12. To bad i don't have an updated roster.

Again, someone misrepresenting what I said. If you actually read my comments fully, I don't say shooting is perfect and goes where you want all the time. I said, if you aim after you press the shoot button the shot will go to that side more often than not.

If you read the original poster's comments, he is confirming that the ball goes where you aim if you aim after you press shoot. I wasn't telling him he was doing it wrong and it's his fault, like you inferred.

Stop being lazy and explaining away my posts as fanboy defense of the game, when I'm just explaining HOW it works. Not saying that it's the best way or you're stupid because you're doing it wrong....if you are.

The poster was talking about having a different method for shooting/aiming, which is an opinion and matter of preference. I'm up for hearing a better method, like you said with the right stick (even though I've never played those games so I can't tell you if I'd like that or not).

I also don't think shooting is as good as it could be, but I never said it's brilliant. All I do sometimes is correct people when they say such and such, when in fact, they can fix that problem some of the time.

I do agree that the game overall should be a lot more free and feel like things are occurring naturally, rather than being contrived. If the game could break free of those shackles, the gameplay would advance to the next level. Of course, animations and other elements would still need improving.

 

[jobey]

It'll be interesting to see what he means by PES103 having better production values, because surely the game is far too early to tell such things. If the game ships without a total revamp in music, commentary, match atmosphere and presentation then he will indeed have been bullshitting yet again. The moment I hear PES2013 accompanied by some sub-1990's Japanese videogame-style jazz music, I'll know immediately that he's been telling porkies.

Can't see this will change to be honest. What do Konami Europe think they're doing with their game's presentation and marketing? I saw an advert for PES online the other day and the music and general feel was awful. It would actively turn people off from buying it. On the other hand, EA Market their game in a modern fashion, with new music directly relevant to the European market. It's a small point maybe but does highlight how out of touch with modern gaming that Konami seem to be these days.

It has always been the same with that guy from WENB.
On marketing and presentation, when Konami made the trailers for PES 4 and PES 5 surely they were thinking " this is what next gen games will be like" Why the hell haven't they tried even making the game similar to the ones in the trailers? it has beautiful atmosphere and a perfect representation of the sport all in those 2 wonderful amazing trailers. Yet they still continue with the same crap.
EA could even make a full simulation of the game, but they won't because they are EA. They will do anything to gain some dollar even at cheapest way possible. The change from fifa 11 to 12 was an absolute fucking joke. Just like how much of a joke pes has been on the current gen platforms.

The trailers have everything a football fan could dream of which has not happened as off yet. Konami, EA or even a new developer could achieve what all football fans want.

A realistic and full Representation of the beautiful game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQITM92Pb44

 

[_anderson]

Guess what, trailers and intros are cgi, there's no code in them, they're not done by developers, they're done by 3d animation artists.

 

[pj_puttz]

I'm finding it VERY hard to believe that a 15 meg patch has fixed all of the issues some people claim it has fixed but I'll reserve judgement until I've tried it myself. Downloaded it last night but didn't have time to play it.

I dont see the point of people saying "I played an exhibition match and it was brilliant!" when we all know that exhibition matches play totally differently to competition matches against the AI. Who wants to play exhibition matches all the time? This is supposed to be a full game, not a demo.

The acid test is the Master League or maybe the Champions League and I'm willing to bet that Calcio's comments regarding not noticing too much difference with the new patch in ML are spot on.

I believe it is impossible to fix this game with a mere patch. I could grudgingly forgive the shocking front end and even the ridiculous, irritating nonsense that goes on in the game like players moaning etc. if they could just give me a decent game of football to play but I think there are too many core code issues to be simply patched over and fixed entirely.

I would LOVE to be proved wrong though!

 

[Ektor70]

i tried myself last nite at a friend's house. shooting and passing are still pretty bad, maybe i had bad luck but keepers seemed worse than i remember. the game feels a bit smoohter and less AI dribbling around, but nothing major. off line, professional, 1 bar setting, playing with low teams. not impressed before, not impressed now, i am glad i sold it. 2k should make a footie game.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I played a few PES exhibition matches last night and they were actually really quite enjoyable. I definitely still much prefer it to FIFA. Then, I tried a ML and immediately found it unbearable, such a totally different experience, and had to turn it off in case I smashed my controller.

I'm intrigued by some of the positive comments about the patch. Kind of looking forward to trying it out now. Still doubtful that it will make ML any more playable, but staying open-minded until I've tried it.

Tbh exhibition matches is the only way to play this game, ML is so dated and very draining with very little fun to be had in that mode now and to top it off people say it plays completely different to the decent exhibition mode. Online is just woeful and feels more like Club Football than PES.

 

[Sabac Red]

Ahwell missed out on the new patch not that it will make a difference the game is broken point blank. Got rid of 2012 and did the unthinkable and traded it in for fifa12. The fact is my enjoyment of pes has taken a huge nose dive every time i'd stick it on it i am constantly fighting against the game rather that having fun. Fifa12 while not perfect and has stuff that irks me atleast the game is stable I enjoy it and there's the career mode. Got really bored with the dated and limited ml in pes.
Said many times konami needs to up the quality of the product on the whole, ml has been lackluster for years now, for years we've been asking for the option to move clubs but for some reason konami won't implement it with no explanation. The tools are already there for konami to fix up on the product of pes but they are too lazy and out of touch with the west to bother. I'm done with pes once again won't be buying it make not even for a quid, atleast I can now join all my ex-pes pals online with fifa....

Next year I

 

[ftgpete]

Ahwell missed out on the new patch not that it will make a difference the game is broken point blank. Got rid of 2012 and did the unthinkable and traded it in for fifa12. The fact is my enjoyment of pes has taken a huge nose dive every time i'd stick it on it i am constantly fighting against the game rather that having fun. Fifa12 while not perfect and has stuff that irks me atleast the game is stable I enjoy it and there's the career mode. Got really bored with the dated and limited ml in pes.
Said many times konami needs to up the quality of the product on the whole, ml has been lackluster for years now, for years we've been asking for the option to move clubs but for some reason konami won't implement it with no explanation. The tools are already there for konami to fix up on the product of pes but they are too lazy and out of touch with the west to bother. I'm done with pes once again won't be buying it make not even for a quid, atleast I can now join all my ex-pes pals online with fifa....

Next year I

If Fifa had a better editing system where you could make your own stadiums then career mode would be so much better, can't stand playing at the same stadiums over and over again. It's a definite improvement from last year but still pretty plain, especially there version of 'be a legend' is very dull and boring.

Online is a blast although aerial balls are still a problem as your defenders turn into retards when the ball goes aerially. That is the problem with both games, when you play against the computer, rather than passing from the back, it just boots it perfectly to the free foward. It's a joke when a goal line clearance scramble magically whips to a free man on the half way line

 

[henrys hand]

What this game needs can't be corrected with patches, the game needs completely new engines and code from the ground-up to create a genuine AI, natural movement and physical interaction, to get rid of off-the-ball-rails, to be able to play freely (better ballphysics and teammember-AI to react realistically to my free play), a realistic two-tiered-stamina/fatigue-system, teams that are set up tactically like they would be in real-life but that can adapt their tactical setup intelligently to the situation on the pitch...

There are so many things to do to get it right, it's simply not possible to achieve in one go with PES 2013, but if half of the work could be achieved with PES 2013, and the rest with PES 2014, I would be happy.

The problem I have with Konami is that this work should have started with PES 2008, instead of PES 2013, five years were lost during which Konami tried to force the old PS2-engines/routines to work on PS3/xbox360.

 

[Ektor70]

yesterday i was buying some second hand ps3 game when i bumped into the ps2 section. pes 3 for 0.50 and pes 5 for 0.75 so i decided to buy them and had a ps2 night with them. Those games are still more fun to play than any next gen pes or fifa.

Though my point being that the decline started with pes6 which took a completely new arcade coast to coast root. So something just went wrong in the way konami decided to implement the game after pes5.

I think they should go back to that kinda balance between offence and defence. Right now midfield play has 0 impact on the game.

And for those still playing pes 2012: only way to play is with a xoomed in camera, that way that game looks good and you don't notice much that all the teams play the same.

 

[Lons]

What this game needs can't be corrected with patches, the game needs completely new engines and code from the ground-up to create a genuine AI, natural movement and physical interaction, to get rid of off-the-ball-rails, to be able to play freely (better ballphysics and teammember-AI to react realistically to my free play), a realistic two-tiered-stamina/fatigue-system, teams that are set up tactically like they would be in real-life but that can adapt their tactical setup intelligently to the situation on the pitch...

There are so many things to do to get it right, it's simply not possible to achieve in one go with PES 2013, but if half of the work could be achieved with PES 2013, and the rest with PES 2014, I would be happy.

The problem I have with Konami is that this work should have started with PES 2008, instead of PES 2013, five years were lost during which Konami tried to force the old PS2-engines/routines to work on PS3/xbox360.

I have no doubt Pes 2013 will have new engine. KONAMI working on new multiplatform engine in Metal Gear Rising and Fox Engine. They will use it in Pes 2013 like in Metal Gear Rising. I'm sure 100%.

 

[Ameppe]

I have no doubt Pes 2013 will have new engine. KONAMI working on new multiplatform engine in Metal Gear Rising and Fox Engine. They will use it in Pes 2013 like in MG Rising. I'm sure 100%.

can you compare an engine used for action games to a specific engine used for football games?

 

[Robbery]

Konami needed 5 years to get the current engine working on next gen consoles on a decent level. In no way they will come with a brand new engine in just one year. Can't imagine that.

 

[arthurm]

can you compare an engine used for action games to a specific engine used for football games?

Unless it's just to improve the graphics/animations?

To be honest, they could make the game look exactly like real life but if it still plays the same, they won't get my money.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Konami needs 5 years to get the current engine working on next gen consoles on a decent level. In no way they will come with a brand new engine in just one year. Can't imagine that.

5 years? These days all games are made on PC the reason why Konami have struggled so much is them trying to get used to coding on PC and then porting to consoles, Accordsing to Seabass they now have the hang of it and they have finally got their heads around the PS3 also, 2 years is enough to make a AAA game from a new engine.

 

[info0]

People seem to demand too much. Considering the fact that Japan had to face one of biggest cataclisms this year, I am surprised KONAMI actually gave us Pro Evo to enjoy this year.

The amount of work they did is amazing too. Hell, this is the first Pro Evo of so called next-gen generation I truely enjoy. I haven't enjoyed any PES like that for almost 6 years now...

The FUN is back at last to PES. The fast paced end to end action is back, which reminded me why I loved PES 6 so much.

I am grateful to whole KONAMI team and Seabass. If they continue like that, Ican be certain, FIFA will lose a race .

 

[romagnoli]

People seem to demand too much. Considering the fact that Japan had to face one of biggest cataclisms this year, I am surprised KONAMI actually gave us Pro Evo to enjoy this year.

I have it on good authority that there would indeed have been a lot more stuff going in this year, but Konami had to pull a fair amount of stuff out as a result of what happened in Japan.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I have it on good authority that there would indeed have been a lot more stuff going in this year, but Konami had to pull a fair amount of stuff out as a result of what happened in Japan.

Odd im sure it was reported that the majority of the team only had 1 day out of development time as Tokyo went back to work the following day after the Earthquake/Tsumi. Who is your good authority? What on earth would they pull out because the country had an earthquake?

 

[Messiah Ban Victim]

The FUN is back at last to PES.

What a joke.

 

[henrys hand]

Been playing some Fifa 12 lately, and I have to admit the engine of Fifa 12 is way better than the one of PES 2012, most of the things I wish for PES, ie. less rails, more freedom, freer animation, better physical interaction... are already implemented in Fifa 12.

The only two aspects missing there are momentum and individuality. It seems like EA is way nearer to reach that sweet spot than Konami is, since the technological groundwork is the most work and EA has done a good job on that front.

Though that new physical engine creates sometimes some ridiculous chain reactions.

Seriously, Fifa 12 is nearer to PES 5/6 than is PES 2012.

If Konami doesn't conquer new technological grounds with PES 2013, I fear Fifa 13 or Fifa 14 will be the last nails in PES' coffin.

 

[lancers]

I have it on good authority that there would indeed have been a lot more stuff going in this year, but Konami had to pull a fair amount of stuff out as a result of what happened in Japan.

Konami seems to have ready made excuses for every wrong move the past few years don't they?

 

[info0]

I heard that for past 4 years dude. PES will die with another FIFA bullshit.

PES is in better shape this year than last year, hell, I would say it's closer to what PES 6 left behind.

FIFA 12? FIFA 12 is the most rubbish FIFA I played in years. No fun, slow, boring, dull, AI is terrible both in CPU team and your teammates, Legendary AI never attacks or threatens you.

EA screwed up. I picked PES instead of FIFA this year for that reason.

I have more fun playing PES 2012 than FIFA 12. That says enough for me xD.

 

[Jamezinho]

People seem to demand too much. Considering the fact that Japan had to face one of biggest cataclisms this year, I am surprised KONAMI actually gave us Pro Evo to enjoy this year.

I have it on good authority that there would indeed have been a lot more stuff going in this year, but Konami had to pull a fair amount of stuff out as a result of what happened in Japan.

I seem to recall this being discussed on the WENB podcast a while back and Adam said that the Tsunami did not affect Konami's operations and they weren't using it as an excuse for their output.

The truth may be different, and the power outages may have hampered them to some degree. More importantly, some of the staff may have lost family and friends in the tragedy. I'm prepared to cut Konami a little slack because of this but the underlying truth remains that PES is so far behind where it should be right now.

 

[Lons]

can you compare an engine used for action games to a specific engine used for football games?

Of course i don't see any difference to use the same engine. Look how animations present in Metal Geal Rising. Movements in this game look fantastic and natural. What do you think KONAMI in one hand create superb multiplatfor engine for MG Rising and FOX Engine and in other use old crap engine in Pes 2013? C'mon it's not possible. They are not stupid. Pes is second or maybe firts the most important game create from KONAMI. I can't imagine that Pes 2013 will use old crap engine and in the same time MG Rising will use brand new. No way... You will see. I guess Pes 2013 will use the same multiplatform brand new engine like Metal Gear Rising or maybe FOX ENGINE. New MG Rising engine they started to create in 2009. For Pes too in my opinion.

 

[info0]

Rising will be only on PS3/Xbox 360 so not really a true "multiplatform" game including PC .

And KONAMI is not making it. It's the guys from Bayonetta making the game under Kojima supervision. That's why PC version was cancelled and many changes in gameplay mechanism may happen .

But yes, they will use their engine on that (if you have seen Bayonetta in action you would know it). Hell, even Metal Gear Solid had better animations than Pro Evo has .

This needs to be improved, but you need proper MoCap studio like EA has.

 

[Lons]

Rising will be only on PS3/Xbox 360 so not really a true "multiplatform" game including PC .

And KONAMI is not making it. It's the guys from Bayonetta making the game under Kojima supervision. That's why PC version was cancelled and many changes in gameplay mechanism may happen .

But yes, they will use their engine on that (if you have seen Bayonetta in action you would know it). Hell, even Metal Gear Solid had better animations than Pro Evo has .

This needs to be improved, but you need proper MoCap studio like EA has.

C'mon it doesn't metter. It's engine created from Pc and than convert to consoles.

 

[info0]

To be honest, all modern game engines are written in C++ or so called higher level languages.

That's why they are at least scalable to machines they will run on. The most amazing engine though, I had contact with, is Unreal Engine 3. Scalable to run even on iPhone... (Infinity Blade is awesome btw)

Though I have gut feeling Rising engine can't be used for football game. Those 2 genres are different, different calculations, physics, much more complicated stuff going on in football, real time calculations, no scripts and added dynamic weather with wind factor, etc. (that would be perfect football simulation). Doubt that we will see such game sometime soon.

I know in Poland we had Chrome Engine used in Chrome FPS and then the same engine was used to make, Xtreme Rally if I am correct, but you could clearly feel it wasn't meant to be used there...

Oh well, only KONAMI and Seabass know what next PES will bring. We can only wait and speculate at this point in time .

 

[Northzzz]

The only thing that bugs me is when people say that PES will cease to be because of Fifa. There's no need to really compare the two. If PES ceases to be it'll be because it is a game that hasn't proved itself over the past couple of years and people aren't buying it. It won't be because Fifa is an unbelievably miles better choice for a football game.

Personally i'm not even annoyed at the current sales situation. PES hasn't done much to earn sales. I wouldn't want a situation like we have with Fifa where people buy the game regardless of quality. We had that with PES 6 and the series went stale as anything. Personally i think that happened with Fifa 09 too but who cares because Fifa is still popular/the media darling so it can afford to do that. The only thing that baffles me is that Konami must have seen the slump in sales starting with PES 2010 but since then haven't really set out to do anything about it. Sure the games get slightly better but there's nothing significant about them that's going to draw people in. Quite frankly they've rested on their laurels far too much. PES has little draw-in appeal to non-fans, and the amount of fans is decreasing rapidly. A new engine is needed desperately for any significant change.

If they decide to make the game like Fifa, which i'm not convinced that they won't be looking to do, then personally i think that'll be the final nail in the coffin. There's no reason to go down that route. They need to establish a core fan-set again by drawing in gamers who are looking for a more challenging, more realistic game experience. Leave the streamlined football to Fifa.

 

[Shikashi]

FIFA has been stale since 09? That's simply factually wrong.

 

[Daytripper]

I traded my copy in last week, felt fortunate enough to get £22 back from a game i played £32 for at a local super market at launch. I've had enough of this series and EA's FIFA series still doesnt do it for me in terms of gameplay or player individuality so I will have to do without a football sim to spend decent time with unless I feel there is a real enjoyment from either game.

In my opinion, PES 2012 really lacks that must have one more game feeling and along with the issues mentioned by other members here I feel enough is enough, there are far too many enjoyable games in other genres and Konamis efforts are not worth long term investment like they once was.

With regards to WENB, whilst I respect Adam and the guys there for what they have built over the years I do feel they should not be at the forefront of everything with regards to fan feedback. I believe the team and Jon Murphy should get a grasp of the whole consumer viewpoint and not one template of it which from a forum community, looks to have far too many insensitive folk going insane should you show anything negative towards the product, that is no way to improve in my view, constructive criticism for me is a valuable tool to sit back and study, with a chance you may learn something in future for the better. It does not seem to working at a decent pace at the moment and Konami dont seem to be highly competent at using whatever feedback they are getting.

I think the series is rotting and this view may be out of order to some but I feel Konami would benefit from having a European team alongside the Japan team in developing the game or somebody taking over Seabass' role. Even minimal little improvements such as fan chants and atmosphere could be recorded by match goers from the team who like to watch Lazio, Barca and so forth as the current model is bloody awful and hasn't been improved in years.

You can only go so far with 1 step forward and 3 back, should someone like 2kSports decide to invest into a soccer game and proves to be competent from a gameplay and presentation standpoint then that will be the final kick in teeth should Konami continue in this current trend of "progress".