The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[Ektor70]

pes 2008 sold almost 9 million copies.how can you call that "little man" is beyond my understanding.

it is probably one of the top 10 selling series all time, they probably already hit the 100 million mark in their history. The single most sold ent. product for years in countries like italy, spain, uk, france.

A big company that made tons of money and did not invest it properly but lived out of his name for 5 long years. Now they are paying the price, fifa outsell them so badly that konami risk to end up like NBA live.

 

[romagnoli]

If we believed everything Adam says PES 2008-2012 would be the best games in the world of course that is until they are released then they seem to go down in his estimation, Moral of the story is dont believe a word of his until the game ships.

Well obviously what you've just said is bullshit, so you won't mind if I don't take that moral away with me.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Well obviously what you've just said is bullshit, so you won't mind if I don't take that moral away with me.

Bullshit? Your clearly delusional then. It's common knowledge on here the way Adam is.

 

[Northzzz]

With respect to you and yours, it's exactly this attitude that is part of the problem. We all have this sentimental regard for PES that just props it up year after year. "Konami and PES as the plucky working class kid, versus the effete soulless aristocrats of EA and FIFA." It's total garbage. It's the foundational myth upon which PES fandom is partly constructed.

Konami is a multi-billion-dollar, multinational corporation that produced Metal Gear Solid 4 in this generation. Konami is not and never will be 'the little man'.

Next-gen PES could have looked and moved as good as - or better than - FIFA or any other sports game, if Konami had wanted it to. Next-gen PES could have spanked everything in sight and sent it home crying. Next-gen PES was supposed to unite the Force, not shatter it into tiny pieces as it has done.

I'm content with PES2012. Much of the time I'd call myself happy. But I'm under no illusions that PES has realised its potential in this generation, or that it ever will now. It has stayed still at best.

Like many here I think our best bet is to see what the next next generation of gaming brings us.

I'd put quite a bit of money on there being a secret laboratory somewhere in Konami HQ, where they're running very early versions of PES2014 on pimped-out PC hardware approximating the specs of the PS4/Xbox720. I hope so.

This.

I've got no idea why people feel sorry for Konami. Konami are a horrible games publisher to boot. At least EA sometimes put out some new games, like Dead Space, Mirror's Edge, Army of Two, Skate, Crysis, or evolve their games with new engines like Battlefield 3. Jeez i really don't like EA and i think they churn out sequels a lot but in comparison Konami are much worse. All they do is sit on their cash cows (MGS, Silent Hill, PES, Castlevania) for so long and all they do is churn out sequels/prequels. I've got absolutely no problem with that because i enjoy those games but quite frankly i feel no sympathy for a publisher that doesn't put out new games. Neverdead is going to be the first new Konami IP in about 2 years. Whenever Konami invest it is basically solely for MGS.

Spoiler

History this gen.

Wii

2006
Elebits

2007
Dance Dance Revolution Hottest Party
Dewy's Adventure
Kororinpa: Marble Mania
MLB Power Pros
Wing Island

2008
Castlevania Judgement
Dance Dance Revolution Hottest Party 2
Lost in Blue: Shipwrecked
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
Gradius Rebirth

2009
Kororinpa 2
Pro Evolution Soccer 2009
Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
Scene It? Twilight
Tomena Sanner

2010
Pro Evolution Soccer 2010
Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's Duel Transer
Def Jam Rapstar
Dance Dance Revolution


Xbox 360

2006
Bomberman: Act Zero (Japan, North America & Europe)
Pro Evolution Soccer 6 / Winning Eleven 2007 (North America) / Winning Eleven X
Pro Yakyuu Spirits 3 (Japan only)
Rumble Roses XX (Japan, North America & Europe)

2007
Dance Dance Revolution Universe (North America)
Dance Dance Revolution Universe 2 (North America)
Dancing Stage Universe (Europe)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 / Winning Eleven 2008 (Japan & Asia)


2009
Pro Evolution Soccer 2010 / Winning Eleven 2010 (Japan & Asia)
Pro Yakyuu Spirits 6 (Japan only)
Saw: The Videogame

2010
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
Pro Evolution Soccer 2011 / Winning Eleven 2011 (Japan & Asia)
Def Jam Rapstar
Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2010 (Japan only)
Gradius Last Gaiden
Dance Dance Revolution
No More Heroes: Heroes' Paradise

2011
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker

2012
Zone of the Enders
Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner
Metal Gear Solid: Rising

TBA
Castlevania (TGS 2008 project)

Playstation 3

2006
Mahjong Fight Club

2007
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 / Winning Eleven 2008 (Japan & Asia)
Pro Yakyuu Spirits 4 (Japan only)

2008
American Idol
Hellboy: Science of Evil (North America & Europe)
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
Metal Gear Online
Pro Evolution Soccer 2009 / Winning Eleven 2009 (Japan & Asia)
Pro Yakyuu Spirits 5 (Japan only)
Silent Hill: Homecoming

2009
Pro Evolution Soccer 2010 / Winning Eleven 2010 (Japan & Asia)
Pro Yakyuu Spirits 6 (Japan only)
Saw: The Videogame

2010
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
Pro Evolution Soccer 2011 / Winning Eleven 2011 (Japan & Asia)
Def Jam Rapstar
Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2010 (Japan only)
Gradius Last Gaiden
Dance Dance Revolution
No More Heroes: Heroes' Paradise

2011
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker

2012
Zone of the Enders
Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner
Metal Gear Solid: Rising

TBA
Castlevania (TGS 2008 project)

 

[stephen]

Bullshit? Your clearly delusional then. It's common knowledge on here the way Adam is.

Yep, it's certainly common knowledge that Adam is a true bullshitter!

But, I actually think he doesn'r realise he is. They over wenb think it is perfectly acceptable to over hype a product, speak about how good it is. They don't seem to understand that people will actually listen to them. They do not look at the product in a non-biased way. It is pure blinkered! All wenb is a sales pitch, even if they don't realise it, people get drawn becasue of their early access to the game, they are influenced by them as they massively overhype the game!
But wenb will never recognise this because they do not have an announce of self awareness. They actually thinik they are doing good, when in actual fact they are doing fuck all, other than convincing people to buy a shit product.

 

[pj_puttz]

Well obviously what you've just said is bullshit, so you won't mind if I don't take that moral away with me.

Any chance you could explain why you think it's bullshit? I think FG and Stephen are bang on with their comments about Adam and WENB.

If you have some proof to the contrary let's hear it.

 

[Northzzz]

Also i just threw on Fifa so i'd like to actually praise PES for once. Fifa has a horrible, horrible balance between attacking and defending. It is so easy as an attacking to go round a defender. That game has a problem with defenders moving like they're attacking. Rather than moving slower, standing their ground looking to block or put off an opponent from running forward they cover far too much ground because of the way the game makes players run and end up flailing around moving too far in one direction. Then you, or the CPU, can just run past them. It's poor. If you can, imagine yourself as defender acting like Fifa defenders. It just doesn't happen. PES on the other hand may have gone too far in the opposite direction by feeling like you're up against a wall sometimes but at least as a defender you don't move too fast, flailing around, and can stand your ground looking to put in a tackle if the opposition dribbles straight forward. It's a better sense of tactical importance. Fifa has a better defending system with the new tactical defending but that game needs to treat defender's movements as different to attacking. I played the computer (world class). It finished 2-2 and every single goal was me or the cpu just running past the defence in some way. No clever play by unlocking the defence with intelligent passing or well timed through balls whatsoever.

Minus that Fifa is alright actually. I think i've been too harsh on it because it has a lot of good in it. Shame i will never be able to accept that balance. I remember it's exactly why i stopped playing Fifa 12 in the first place.

 

[romagnoli]

Bullshit? Your clearly delusional then. It's common knowledge on here the way Adam is.

Yep, it's certainly common knowledge that Adam is a true bullshitter!

Any chance you could explain why you think it's bullshit? I think FG and Stephen are bang on with their comments about Adam and WENB.

If you have some proof to the contrary let's hear it.

The problem is the idea that absolutely nothing they say should be believed or at least read and taken in context.

I certainly agree that the guys at WENB have overhyped the game over the years to varying degrees, and are certainly aimed more at fans of the series than neutrals who have no allegiance to one game or another. But I'm not going to completely ignore some things that were said face to face on a couple of occasions because it's cheap and easy to chum up with other forumites and say that literally nothing Adam says should be believed. It's just as hyperbolic as what you're discrediting.

Edit: Not that I'm completely innocent of taking a similar stance towards Adam in the past, to be fair. But it's too easy to make broad sweeping statements as if everything's black or white.

 

[romagnoli]

Also i just threw on Fifa so i'd like to actually praise PES for once. Fifa has a horrible, horrible balance between attacking and defending. It is so easy as an attacking to go round a defender. That game has a problem with defenders moving like they're attacking. Rather than moving slower, standing their ground looking to block or put off an opponent from running forward they cover far too much ground because of the way the game makes players run and end up flailing around moving too far in one direction. Then you, or the CPU, can just run past them. It's poor. If you can, imagine yourself as defender acting like Fifa defenders. It just doesn't happen. PES on the other hand may have gone too far in the opposite direction by feeling like you're up against a wall sometimes but at least as a defender you don't move too fast, flailing around, and can stand your ground looking to put in a tackle if the opposition dribbles straight forward. It's a better sense of tactical importance. Fifa has a better defending system with the new tactical defending but that game needs to treat defender's movements as different to attacking. I played the computer (world class). It finished 2-2 and every single goal was me or the cpu just running past the defence in some way. No clever play by unlocking the defence with intelligent passing or well timed through balls whatsoever.

That's one of the problems I have with FIFA too. It still hasn't refined the close range stuff at all. The new defensive system is a lot better, but it also highlights how the game is too much about covering large distances rather than being intricate and unpredictable. It's still not a bad game at all, and it does certain things really well, but the attention to detail is in the wrong areas to really cater for me. The GCs have made a lot of noise in our feedback to the devs about AI and the core problems we have with momentum, first touches and short range interplay, so fingers crossed.

 

[arthurm]

The GCs have made a lot of noise in our feedback to the devs about AI and the core problems we have with momentum, first touches and short range interplay, so fingers crossed.

Cool. They seemed to be going in the right direction with FIFA07-08, but complaints about sluggishness and lack of response have resulted in what we have now - a sophisticated engine that plays like an arcade game...or streamlined football, as Northzzz aptly labelled it.

If they do address things like first touch, momentum, fatigue, I wouldn't be surprised if it results in complaints from the arcade fans that the game is uncontrollable and unresponsive again.

 

[Shikashi]

> Factually
> Facts
> My opinion

I'm not willing to say it's fact but at it's CORE what about that game has changed in 3 years? They've tweaked things a bit. Added some cosmetic player value changes. Added in a part of the engine now to represent more dynamic collisions. Adjusted other stuff. Aesthetic changes etc.

To me Fifa is the same Fifa deep down. It has the same basic core philosophy that Fifa 09 did. I define it as 'streamlined football' and every single Fifa since then has felt that way despite obvious couple of additions/tweaks to each game. If you think how it's changed in 3 years is massive then that's fine but i don't. To me Fifa 09 was a welcome change. I enjoyed the hell out of that game (minus sprint whores and the over-the-top through ball bug) though i won't say it was a great football game, but it was a fun game. When it came to Fifa 10 i just got bored of it very easily and the same with Fifa 11 (hence the notion of it feeling 'stale' to me). I intended to give Fifa 12 a try over PES 2012 this year because i wanted a change to keep it fresh. I just couldn't stomach Fifa. I thought it was going to be miles different. To me it still feels like the same core Fifa philosophy and i don't particularly care much for 'streamlined football' anymore.

That's easy, the impact engine completely changes how players interact with each other, the passing system is very different and so is 360º dribbling.
Stale is the transition from PES 2009 to PES 2010. It's, essentially, the same game with a new roster and goofy fake shots.
FIFA 09 and 12 are night and day different from each other. You can't tell me with a straight face that you can play 09 and 12 back to back and not see how the game feels totally different.

Now, I'm not arguing that FIFA is no longer streamlined football. It is, FIFA mimics aspects of a simulation, but it's an arcade game at its core. I'm just saying that you can't play 09 and 12 and assert that it's the same game with minor tweaks here and there. You could say that 11 and 12 are fairly similar, which they are, but not 09 and 12. If anything, 09 is much closer to simulation than 12.

 

[tc811]

Stale is the transition from PES 2009 to PES 2010. It's, essentially, the same game with a new roster and goofy fake shots.

For you to say things are factually wrong, that statement you've just made is factually wrong as well. Believe me, those two games couldn't be further apart from each other in the gameplay department.

 

[pj_puttz]

The problem is the idea that absolutely nothing they say should be believed or at least read and taken in context.

I certainly agree that the guys at WENB have overhyped the game over the years to varying degrees, and are certainly aimed more at fans of the series than neutrals who have no allegiance to one game or another. But I'm not going to completely ignore some things that were said face to face on a couple of occasions because it's cheap and easy to chum up with other forumites and say that literally nothing Adam says should be believed. It's just as hyperbolic as what you're discrediting.

Edit: Not that I'm completely innocent of taking a similar stance towards Adam in the past, to be fair. But it's too easy to make broad sweeping statements as if everything's black or white.

That's fair comment but I dont think people are saying we should discount EVERYTHING that Adam and/or WENB say but let's face it they do have a pretty poor track record of misleading us or just being plain wrong about things when it comes to PES.

When an individual or group consistently gets it wrong or outright lies to us (9 out of 10 review scores for PES 2012 being the case in point here I think) we are obviously going to react badly to it. That is why there are so many "Adam is a bullshitter" posts in this thread.

You obviously know the guy personally or have spoken to him in person at least so you will have a more balanced view on the guy and that's fair enough. The problem he has is the way he behaves on the internet, not the way he behaves in real life. He HAS bullshitted us all on various occassions and quite a few people have complained about being banned from WENB forums simply for disagreeing with him or speaking their mind about PES.

He may very well be a nice guy in person but because of behaviour like that he comes across as a bit of an arsehole as well as a Konami PR champion online.

 

[Miro]

A big company that made tons of money and did not invest it properly but lived out of his name for 5 long years. Now they are paying the price, fifa outsell them so badly that konami risk to end up like NBA live.

Thats exactly what happened, greedy japanese thought they just can collect money and not to invest in their product anymore, its bussines like anything else - you collect money but you dont invest in your product and soon you fall behind, now they re paying the price.

 

[Miro]

For you to say things are factually wrong, that statement you've just made is factually wrong as well. Believe me, those two games couldn't be further apart from each other in the gameplay department.

I dont believe you, I played em both , and you re lying.

 

[shoemaker]

adam loves pes does he not? so i think if he has influence on this game it wont be much better for 2013 like. from what i can gather they have talked shit for the last few years about the game. things fixed, things supposed to be in that arent.

 

[Miro]

adam loves pes does he not? so i think if he has influence on this game it wont be much better for 2013 like. from what i can gather they have talked shit for the last few years about the game. things fixed, things supposed to be in that arent.

PES 2013 will be complete disaster imho, they cant come with anything new, its still not the "next next" gen ( PES 2014 will be I think ), so they have to come up with the same shit on this generation of consoles, what they will do ? Still same shitty engine, still same online modes - I think their getting ready for PES 2014 which can be their Waterloo if dont do it correctly, so what to do with PES 2013 ?

I think will see PR bullshit talks in the biggest parade ever from em, just to sell something.

 

[Ektor70]

if the producers are the same, pes 2013 will be another major disaster. hey clearly have no idea about what to do/just do it in a cheap ways.

look at the commentary for example: we need a new commentary, they just thow in some new voices with the same lines.

AI: in pes 2011 wasn't too challenging. they just made every AI players being able to dribble like messi and shoot free kicks like zico.

Penalties: they just made it impossible to miss the goal.

Tactical: a lot of interesting features went missing.

Presentation: some people moving and 0 appeal.

This is konami this days: cheap ways to make yo feel they worked on the game, but is is basically a fast way to make money and invest 0 on the game.

 

[stephen]

That's fair comment but I dont think people are saying we should discount EVERYTHING that Adam and/or WENB say but let's face it they do have a pretty poor track record of misleading us or just being plain wrong about things when it comes to PES.

When an individual or group consistently gets it wrong or outright lies to us (9 out of 10 review scores for PES 2012 being the case in point here I think) we are obviously going to react badly to it. That is why there are so many "Adam is a bullshitter" posts in this thread.

You obviously know the guy personally or have spoken to him in person at least so you will have a more balanced view on the guy and that's fair enough. The problem he has is the way he behaves on the internet, not the way he behaves in real life. He HAS bullshitted us all on various occassions and quite a few people have complained about being banned from WENB forums simply for disagreeing with him or speaking their mind about PES.

He may very well be a nice guy in person but because of behaviour like that he comes across as a bit of an arsehole as well as a Konami PR champion online.

I agree, I have mentioned before I don't think he can see the bigger picture realsing that he actually looks like a Konami PR man (which he has become offically).

If the wenb discontinued their relationwhip with Konami I think a lot of their fans/people would favor that, as it shows the website's intent that they are not swayed by Konami.

As for Adam online, he is on some sort of power trip. It's become an extremely familar situation with him hyping up pes and then it falling short, not meeting expectations. I think this is a big issue for me. Because I been one of those people who followed them for 5 straight years, buying into the trust. People may see the hype as a bit of fun (as people have mentioed here and over at wenb), but it is not the slightest bit of fun, it's powerful and it's misleading! And people will end up buying a product based on it! That's not fun, it's fucking costly!!

or me and many other adam has become self absorbed and is unable to hold a proper non-biaised discussion regarding pes, facing up the honesty of where the series is.
I for one, have been on wenb and I critised the animations constructively regarding early pes 2012 gametrailer videos. I said I would become fed up of the game very early as they seemed rigid and repetitive. This is when he became vile towards me, calling me a complete dick and I would be proved wrong and he would demand an apology! And then all his minions jumped on the bangwagon - anderson and co!

Game released, And what do know, the animations were shit, and I sold the game a month later!

From this, it told me that adam was either an actual twat lacked any self awareness or was he protecting Konami as a PR man also fooling his minions. Or he is just both!

 

[stephen]

if the producers are the same, pes 2013 will be another major disaster. hey clearly have no idea about what to do/just do it in a cheap ways.

look at the commentary for example: we need a new commentary, they just thow in some new voices with the same lines.

AI: in pes 2011 wasn't too challenging. they just made every AI players being able to dribble like messi and shoot free kicks like zico.

Penalties: they just made it impossible to miss the goal.

Tactical: a lot of interesting features went missing.

Presentation: some people moving and 0 appeal.

This is konami this days: cheap ways to make yo feel they worked on the game, but is is basically a fast way to make money and invest 0 on the game.

Very true, it's all about the money! Things is in the past some of these things were less noticable because some how they nailed the gameplay. Now the gameplay is average at best, these things stand out like a sore thumb!

Regarding the PR drive this year, expect even more hype. Adam is taking the lead offcially on the project. It all sounds a bit wrong and convoluted with having Adam offically on board. I want Konami to be creative and know their own direction without community help, which they seem not to acknowledge any how regardless!

 

[pj_puttz]

If Adam is officially on board for PES 2013 why would anyone listen to his hype and opinions when he starts spouting them in a few months? Surely anyone who does so is an absolute fool?

He's not going to come out and say the game looks crap now that he's directly involved in it is he?

In my opinion he got exactly what he wanted, he kissed Konami ass long enough to get a job with them but in the process of doing so has sacrificed his and probably WENB's credibility by refusing to remain impartial.

He wont give a toss that we think he's an arsehole or has misled us because he got a job with Konami out of it. So who is laughing at who here?

 

[stephen]

If Adam is officially on board for PES 2013 why would anyone listen to his hype and opinions when he starts spouting them in a few months? Surely anyone who does so is an absolute fool?

He's not going to come out and say the game looks crap now that he's directly involved in it is he?

In my opinion he got exactly what he wanted, he kissed Konami ass long enough to get a job with them but in the process of doing so has sacrificed his and probably WENB's credibility by refusing to remain impartial.

He wont give a toss that we think he's an arsehole or has misled us because he got a job with Konami out of it. So who is laughing at who here?

So true!
But their is a few over at wenb believe me! Some real brown nosers. Although I think it may well be Adam himself posing as someone else.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

If Adam is officially on board for PES 2013 why would anyone listen to his hype and opinions when he starts spouting them in a few months? Surely anyone who does so is an absolute fool?

He's already started with the hype a couple of weeks ago and now it's in full force already!

 

[pj_puttz]

He's already started with the hype a couple of weeks ago and now it's in full force already!

What the hell is there to hype at this moment in time? Sounds like he's pretty much given up on PES 2012 then. When a blinkered, biased fanboy like him gives up on a PES game a mere 2 months after it's release you KNOW there is something badly wrong with it.

I believe the term "sold out" applies perfectly to Adam. Career wise it's a great move for him but he's got a real cheek expecting us to believe his hype when he works for the damn company! I mean what is he? An impartial forum poster or a Konami wage slave? I think he made his choice a long time ago so why are people still swallowing his crap?

Anyone who falls for it deserves all they get if you ask me. You have to be a special kind of stupid to believe any sort of hype from someone with Adam's recent track record.

I'll be renting the next PES before I decide whether to buy it or not. For the first time ever.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Really can't agree on people's comparisons with FIFA12. For me, someone who's always argued that PES is the more realistic, for once I'm going with game reviews and saying I think that FIFA12 is the most realistic game ever. There, shoot me down!

There are tons of things that need refining like ball control etc, but if you get the sliders right it immediately becomes far more realistic. The games ebb and flow at a realistic pace, the CPU has equal if not more possession of the ball, and there is a limitless variety of goals to score. Conversely, while PES gets certain tecnical aspects right such as ball control (well, in PES2011 anyways), the way the CPU teams set themselves out is utterly unrealistic and shatters any idea of being sim-like. Packing the first third of the field with all eleven men then leaving a massive, gaping gap in the midfield, then spamming through passes and repetitive ways of scoring are abysmal ways of replicating the way football teams play.

Don't get me wrong, I 'get' why people don't like FIFA in terms of ball control and players feeling the same, but sliders really work wonders in this regard. Individuality in my career mode is huge this year. Different players feel very different. But where I never thought FIFA was realistic in the slightest, despite all the niggles here and there, the fact that career mode Premier League matches can overall pan out so realistically is the big difference. In PES2012 an away trip to Man Utd would see them have an 11 man defence and nail you on the counter, just as if you were playing Wolves or Bolton. In FIFA12, away at Man Utd you'll struggle to get the ball, be under pressure, and YOU'LL be the one having to play on the counter, whereas you'll have much more even contests at lesser teams. For the first time, FIFA12 makes the AI more tactically aware at defending and doesn't rely on mass defences or overpowered rugby challenges of the past. Ironically, PES, which never used to rely on such rubbish, won me over from FIFA last year for this very reason, now they've almost stolen EA's old method of defensive pressure whereas EA have advanced their AI/engine beyond needing to go down that route.

Just my two cents on that issue.

 

[Ameppe]

I think we should stop talking about Adam and wenb over here. After all it's not their fault if Konami failed to improve Pes series. It's not Adam's fault if Konami seems like they have not a clue about how to develop Pes series.

Let's ask Seabass how and why Pes Team managed to destroy almost everything good about Pes 2011...

 

[Jamezinho]

It's interesting what Rom said about Konami having to drop a few ideas and features from the development of PES2012, although I'm sure they were all superficial things in the grand scheme of it. My main gripe with PES is the engine, though, and I'm sure the core gameplay of PES2012 would have been exactly the same even with these additions.

Therefore unless I hear very early on that PES2013 is built on a new engine I'm not sure the game is even worth following next year. The current engine is inadequate, obsolete and limiting, and Konami simply cannot continue with it any longer.

PES2012 is a game that I will dip into from time to time. FIFA 12 is an excellent video game, but it still fails to hit the spot for me as a football fan, hence I sold it. So it looks like yet another year with barely a football game to play.

PES2013 and FIFA13 both need to up their game considerably or I think I could be done with football games for good.

In my opinion he got exactly what he wanted, he kissed Konami ass long enough to get a job with them but in the process of doing so has sacrificed his and probably WENB's credibility by refusing to remain impartial.

He wont give a toss that we think he's an arsehole or has misled us because he got a job with Konami out of it. So who is laughing at who here?

Even shortly after he started WENB people were saying this was his intention, and sadly it seems they may be correct.

So true!
But their is a few over at wenb believe me! Some real brown nosers. Although I think it may well be Adam himself posing as someone else.

He's done that here before. I remember a couple of years ago when Ubisoft (his employer) announced Pure Football (which turned out to be Pure Shit) and he signed up on Evo-Web with a different username pretending to be a new member. I'm not sure exactly his reasons why but I think he was trying to find out who was leaking information about PES and Pure Football. He said on his forums that he had the blessing of the powers that be on here to do it.

Bellend status was confirmed after that. A hugely immature and unprofessional thing to do.

 

[Northzzz]

Really can't agree on people's comparisons with FIFA12. For me, someone who's always argued that PES is the more realistic, for once I'm going with game reviews and saying I think that FIFA12 is the most realistic game ever. There, shoot me down!

There are tons of things that need refining like ball control etc, but if you get the sliders right it immediately becomes far more realistic. The games ebb and flow at a realistic pace, the CPU has equal if not more possession of the ball, and there is a limitless variety of goals to score. Conversely, while PES gets certain tecnical aspects right such as ball control (well, in PES2011 anyways), the way the CPU teams set themselves out is utterly unrealistic and shatters any idea of being sim-like. Packing the first third of the field with all eleven men then leaving a massive, gaping gap in the midfield, then spamming through passes and repetitive ways of scoring are abysmal ways of replicating the way football teams play.

Don't get me wrong, I 'get' why people don't like FIFA in terms of ball control and players feeling the same, but sliders really work wonders in this regard. Individuality in my career mode is huge this year. Different players feel very different. But where I never thought FIFA was realistic in the slightest, despite all the niggles here and there, the fact that career mode Premier League matches can overall pan out so realistically is the big difference. In PES2012 an away trip to Man Utd would see them have an 11 man defence and nail you on the counter, just as if you were playing Wolves or Bolton. In FIFA12, away at Man Utd you'll struggle to get the ball, be under pressure, and YOU'LL be the one having to play on the counter, whereas you'll have much more even contests at lesser teams. For the first time, FIFA12 makes the AI more tactically aware at defending and doesn't rely on mass defences or overpowered rugby challenges of the past. Ironically, PES, which never used to rely on such rubbish, won me over from FIFA last year for this very reason, now they've almost stolen EA's old method of defensive pressure whereas EA have advanced their AI/engine beyond needing to go down that route.

Just my two cents on that issue.

I can't agree. I think the sliders are a big afterthought at current and all in all none of them fix the streamlined sense of momentum and inertia, which for me are the two biggest issues with Fifa. Lowering acceleration only gives an attacker on the ball a better advantage anyway because he's in the middle of dribbling, already maxing out his acceleration. A static defender takes even longer to respond. I don't know if you read my post yesterday? about the problems in general with defending too. Rom agreed. I think it's imbalanced enough in favour of the attacker as it is. Adjusting acceleration ruins it completely. The few games that i played out when i lowered the acceleration (in fact it was to your suggested level) just had me and the cpu running past one another to score every time because defenders couldn't react and catch up from static positions.

Lowering speed makes the players run slower but doesn't affect any other aspects of dribbling, i.e how quickly they can push the ball when changing direction when dribbling, how quickly their first control is, how quickly they can turn on the spot with the ball. Lowering speed leaves you with a situation where the game is half fast, half slow, but the wrong way round.

Those two aspects right there make the game twice as fast as it should be. Toning down speed and acceleration doesn't make the game consistently slower as some people have suggested to me in the past. You still receive the ball, control it, turn, turn in another direction, pivot in another far too quickly that it simply defies human capability most of the game. The game is just so fast even on slow and i attribute it mostly to this reasons, and perhaps dribbling is a bit too streamlined, at least concerning how precisely and quickly a player can push the ball in another direction in an instant. People say players in Fifa dribble like Messi does in real life. I personally find that a true analogy.

On the other hand Fifa mirrors the fast paced side of football very well, PES doesn't at all, but it doesn't mirror any of the methodical parts of the game. Football is not played at 100 miles an hour for 90 minutes.

If they could sort out inertia and momentum then i'd probably enjoy it 5 times more because it does have a lot of good other features as you have said. I just don't get how people can play the game and not ask why it feels like the game is being played way too fast, even on slow. It bugs me too much to enjoy it.

That said, you're right when you suggest AI in Fifa has more variety. In PES every team plays in the same style. Oddly they do play differently, better teams are better, but the style is always the same. I think a lot of that is down to the fact that PES feels like 11 individuals on a team whereas Fifa feels like 1 team. I've always thought as a reflection of a team Fifa has been better. It just lacks the feeling of individuals. That in turn isn't such a virtue because when playing with club teams in PES you do get a weird lack of cohesion.

Anyway something i've felt about Fifa and PES for a while. Fifa reflects specific aspects football better when the actual game is being played but on the whole it just feels like something is wrong (i think it's because i take Fifa as a whole rather than a combination of parts making a game). PES doesn't reflect many specific aspects of football very well at all whilst it is played but (minus the scripting) in the end the game some how manages to mirror football well as a whole somehow. If anything i'd say the end justifies the means in PES, it's more evident in local multiplayer or if you can turn scripting off with mods. Maybe that is scripting? Better teams usually win, ergo the end justifying the means, but i don't think they cheat as much as they did before i had modifications. I can't put my finger on it.

 

[Jamezinho]

I can't agree. I think the sliders are a big afterthought

That's how I see it. Don't get me wrong, the sliders helped me get more out of Fifa but they can't add the things the game lacks.

In an ideal world no sports game should need any sliders other than a difficulty level. If the game was built properly in the first place, with realistic pace, physics, touch and inertia then there's no need for them. I prefer to see a game played the same way by everyone. As the likes of PES5 showed us, when a game feels so right sliders aren't even required.

 

[ftgpete]

Really can't agree on people's comparisons with FIFA12. For me, someone who's always argued that PES is the more realistic, for once I'm going with game reviews and saying I think that FIFA12 is the most realistic game ever. There, shoot me down!

There are tons of things that need refining like ball control etc, but if you get the sliders right it immediately becomes far more realistic. The games ebb and flow at a realistic pace, the CPU has equal if not more possession of the ball, and there is a limitless variety of goals to score. Conversely, while PES gets certain tecnical aspects right such as ball control (well, in PES2011 anyways), the way the CPU teams set themselves out is utterly unrealistic and shatters any idea of being sim-like. Packing the first third of the field with all eleven men then leaving a massive, gaping gap in the midfield, then spamming through passes and repetitive ways of scoring are abysmal ways of replicating the way football teams play.

Don't get me wrong, I 'get' why people don't like FIFA in terms of ball control and players feeling the same, but sliders really work wonders in this regard. Individuality in my career mode is huge this year. Different players feel very different. But where I never thought FIFA was realistic in the slightest, despite all the niggles here and there, the fact that career mode Premier League matches can overall pan out so realistically is the big difference. In PES2012 an away trip to Man Utd would see them have an 11 man defence and nail you on the counter, just as if you were playing Wolves or Bolton. In FIFA12, away at Man Utd you'll struggle to get the ball, be under pressure, and YOU'LL be the one having to play on the counter, whereas you'll have much more even contests at lesser teams. For the first time, FIFA12 makes the AI more tactically aware at defending and doesn't rely on mass defences or overpowered rugby challenges of the past. Ironically, PES, which never used to rely on such rubbish, won me over from FIFA last year for this very reason, now they've almost stolen EA's old method of defensive pressure whereas EA have advanced their AI/engine beyond needing to go down that route.

Just my two cents on that issue.

Fifa's AI passing wise is good but it still hoofs the ball and finds the striker with ease which is Bs, same happens in PES 2012. Aerial balls are still ridiculously over powered.

Tatical defending is great and the only reason I'm in division 3 online is because I'm good at it, but offline it is ridiculous how easy the AI attackers can turn you and just waltz past.


Regarding Adam, yes he has been guilty of hyping the game up and being a jerk but the game is cr*p because Konami are clueless. Even WENB have said since 2008 that animation and goal keepers need to be improved but have they? Nope.

And I don't think he is getting paid in his new position with Konami, he is just going to give bad feedback from 'only positive' thoughts WENB which Konami won't listen to anyway.