PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

rojofa said:
Sliders even being present diminishes the fun of the game for me tbh. Yeah, its optional, but when there is the choice to tinker with sliders I usually do, and end up never satisfied with them.

I'd rather just play the game for what it is, for better or worse, and just play something else if I'm not enjoying it instead of trying to brute force it into being "realistic" with sliders.

I also like that the game mechanics are the same offline and online, and that whenever I see a video of a goal knowing that I can do it myself; they've not just scored because of a certain slider combo.

You can also end up compensating for a lack of skill with the game mechanics by producing sliders that just give the scorelines you want. For example, you could be getting destroyed by the chip through ball... So you diminish its frequency with sliders... But wait, the reason you were getting killed with it could have been mindlessly pressuring and leaving the spaces. Now the CPU doesn't exploit clear open space and punish your bad defending as it should etc.
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In bold, that's the problem right there. The choice to play something else instead of PES.

As a PES fan, that is a heartbreaking statement. Heartbreaking.

PES is supposed to be about longevity. Replayability and being engrossed fully.

The problem that PES, and some, don't understand, is that we live in times in which perceptions vary, and if expectations matter. Just because person A can live with the faults, and person B cannot, shouldn't be the deciding factor of whether or not the game still gets played.

I am not asking for sliders the same way FIFA does it. I'm asking for any form of sliders that represent a true way to customize KONAMI's perception of the game. They keep missing the mark. It's not even a fundamental mark anymore, it's a proven representation that the game is designed for action inside a 10 minute match.

I think those who oppose sliders need to consider those who don't play 10 minute matches (5 minute halves). If you play 10 minute matches, and I play 30 minute matches, why would I want to experience the same level of events that you do? This is how sliders, or gameplay customization, come into play. It allows me now to adjust to MY perception of how it should play, relevant to the amount of time given.

This is why in slider creation, on FIFA for example, when someone asks how we can adjust them to work for someone who plays 4-6 minute halves, I tell them....reduce pass error, reduce shot error, increase run frequency, etc.

How sad is it that FIFA gets more play time than PES for me? It's not as easy to just go play something else when PES lets me down, it's that I personally can't let go, and don't want to - but it's fighting me. I haven't played Master League since PES 15. Sad.
 
Have always bought PES on release but I held off buying PES 18 due to the lack of fouls so im disapointed that the patch has not addressed this but im not surprised. Least I saved money.

Has anyone had a penalty playing the Ai ? In fact has anyone had a penalty playing PES 17 ? i had one. How can a game with no penalties be classed as a football game? Look how many are awarded in actual games ie Premiership. No matter how good the open play in PES its totaly broken.

I used to really love PES but sadly its like a dog that can no longer walk and needs to be put down. Its had its day and has been overtaken this year by the competition. Never thought id move to the dark side but I have.
 
Matt10 said:
How sad is it that FIFA gets more play time than PES for me? It's not as easy to just go play something else when PES lets me down, it's that I personally can't let go, and don't want to - but it's fighting me. I haven't played Master League since PES 15. Sad.
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That seems a bit overdramatic to me, if you don't enjoy a game then just put it down and do something more enjoyable with your time. I never bought PES 2014-17 at all and barely played FIFA 16/17, didn't buy FIFA 18.

There are too many quality games out there to get hung up on trying to squeeze some fun out of bad football games by chasing perfection with sliders.

Matt10 said:
The problem that PES, and some, don't understand, is that we live in times in which perceptions vary, and if expectations matter. Just because person A can live with the faults, and person B cannot, shouldn't be the deciding factor of whether or not the game still gets played.
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How on earth does this logic work? If "Person B" perceives faults the game that they can't live with, they should still end up playing the game anyway? Why? It's not work, we don't need to play these games.
 
rojofa said:
How on earth does this logic work? If you perceive faults in a game that you can't live with, you should still end up playing the game anyway? It's not work, we don't NEED to play these games.
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Some people are only really interested (or at least, very heavily interested) in one gaming genre, or one sport, though.

Many people have said that they have to* play a football game all year - I'd put myself in that category. I'm not one who hangs onto the past but I think this year's crop are pretty disappointing, and as much as The Witcher 3 can be amazing, and Cuphead is great in co-op - I'm back on last year's football games (and still giving this year's Football Manager a go) because it's football I want to play.

*Not literally "have to". Obviously.
 
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I actually have to enjoy the fact that PES 2018 still hasn´t convinced me yet. This made me install games like Division and try things like project cars... It´s like a fresh start, I´m playing games I usually don´t, and it´s nice.
 
PESBUL said:
Big NO! After PES 2018 my trust in Konami returned again. I'm sure now they know what they are doing. We don't need this slider. The game is great I can't stop playing, its first game like that since PES 6 and PES 2013.
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This is a great example of different perspectives.

The similarity is that we both want to play PES. However, you would think that the result = "not playing PES", that it would affect that priority to "make people play PES".

The irony is if you said, "make more faces!" I'd say, fine, as long as they also pay attention to gameplay. If they don't want to pay attention to gameplay, then fine, give me gameplay customization. (EA + 2ksports approach).

Like I said, we're in times now where virtually all, if not most, sports games have sliders. Why is PES different? PES says it wants to get with the times with MyClub and probably Esports, then why are they lagging behind in this area?
 
Virtually all games have sliders, and virtually all games are slower and slower in their evolution. From my experience, the more customizable the game is, the less evolution it gets through the years. Fifa has made minor tweaks on the last years, PES has been improving way much (it had to anyway). The day the put sliders in it, is the day where they´ll stop making improvements, and turn their attention to online money making features only.
 
rojofa said:
That seems a bit overdramatic to me, if you don't enjoy a game then just put it down and do something more enjoyable with your time. I never bought PES 2014-17 at all and barely played FIFA 16/17, didn't buy FIFA 18.

There are too many quality games out there to get hung up on trying to squeeze some fun out of bad football games by chasing perfection with sliders.

How on earth does this logic work? If "Person B" perceives faults the game that they can't live with, they should still end up playing the game anyway? Why? It's not work, we don't need to play these games.
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Sorry i had to come in here. I play footy games 99% of the time that the PS is on. I have no interest in other games. I used to when i was younger, living at mum and dad’s, with no responsibilities. I would buy a new game each week and spend most of my life in my bedroom playing games.

Now, 30 years on, i have many reponsibilities. So game time is kinda short. I liked nothing more than playing ML on average one or two matches a day. Building a team. About 12 years ago i could get through a number of seasons and feel satisfied.

Now i very rarely play one season in the latest PES’. Because i basically don’t enjoy the gameplay as much as i did back then. So i agree with Matt, it is very frustrating and kinda heartbreaking when there is no decent new PES to play, especially ML.

Chris Davies said:
Some people are only really interested (or at least, very heavily interested) in one gaming genre, or one sport, though.

Many people have said that they have to* play a football game all year - I'd put myself in that category. I'm not one who hangs onto the past but I think this year's crop are pretty disappointing, and as much as The Witcher 3 can be amazing, and Cuphead is great in co-op - I'm back on last year's football games (and still giving this year's Football Manager a go) because it's football I want to play.

*Not literally "have to". Obviously.
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I agree.

xicpanad said:
I actually have to enjoy the fact that PES 2018 still hasn´t convinced me yet. This made me install games like Division and try things like project cars... It´s like a fresh start, I´m playing games I usually don´t, and it´s nice.
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Ive got Project Cars and it is good but then after spending an hour or so im missing footy games. It’s good but prefer footy ;)
 
xicpanad said:
Virtually all games have sliders, and virtually all games are slower and slower in their evolution. From my experience, the more customizable the game is, the less evolution it gets through the years. Fifa has made minor tweaks on the last years, PES has been improving way much (it had to anyway). The day the put sliders in it, is the day where they´ll stop making improvements, and turn their attention to online money making features only.
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I think evolution of games depends on what aspect of the game. Some would say FUT/MyClub evolutionary, and some would say they are detrimental. It's two sides of the same coin essentially. I can't agree that sliders/customization would make devs lazy or have attention on other things. That is again just a misguided perception that is extremely convenient to bring up because we don't work there at KONAMI/EA. Basically, it's an argument that holds no weight because it can't be argued fairly.

Concept to execution is the base of where these games need to be created. If the execution is off the mark, then why shouldn't the user/consumer have the option to modify this area? It's optional afterall, which opens up the perception of having more control and not being left to the mercy of what the devs hear from a combination of the yes men and critics.
 
rojofa said:
How on earth does this logic work? If "Person B" perceives faults the game that they can't live with, they should still end up playing the game anyway? Why? It's not work, we don't need to play these games.
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So we have to give up football games all togheter, which for many is the only genre played because we don't need to play it after all, yet you can't ignore sliders whenever they are in the game, which you could just do and play exactly as they weren't in?

I sense a strong irony here..
 
Madmac79 said:
So we have to give up football games all togheter, which for many is the only genre played because we don't need to play it after all, yet you can't ignore sliders whenever they are in the game, which you could just do and play exactly as they weren't in?

I sense a strong irony here..
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Not even saying give them up, just play one you actually like. There must be one out of the 10+ released in the last 5 years or so that was enjoyable, or maybe even older ones (people still play PES6). Especially if you only play offline, you don't have to keep persevering with the latest versions that you don't enjoy.

If the option is there to play with sliders, I am usually tempted to take it, but I prefer not to even have that choice because I'd rather just play and enjoy the game instead of almost subconsciously studying how the game is behaving and thinking about how I should change it.

If I often concede a certain type of goal (e.g. lofted through ball) in PES 2018, I'll consider my team tactics, style of play, pressuring, use of super cancel etc. to the point that now I'm defending much better and cutting most of them out.
In a potential PES 2019 with sliders, maybe I'd just be tempted to increase a pass error slider or decrease long pass frequency etc.

And like Zee, I'm wondering if when sliders are supposedly this holy grail feature for a sports game, why isn't FIFA enough for people who want the sliders in PES? Sliders don't fix fundamental gameplay design problems, all you can do is polish the turd.
 
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I think underneath it all we all want a game similar in playability as PES 5/6 without the need to be tinkering with the 'perfect' set of sliders. Many of us simply do not possess the time to tend to this issue.

I get we are in a different era now and that more people want options like this but simply put as PES fans from the 'glory days' most of us are adjudging each new PES in comparison to the old ones and why they have not been as playable since that. And as a PES fan from that generation I'm not to fussed on sliders as i want to play my mates and others online in the same way as I do at home. Each quest for the perfect set sliders becomes a relentless endless pursuit of perfection that never is quite achieved. On the other hand with the limitations in the current game I can understand why people see the need for same.
 
I played an exhibition games as Arsenal vs Real Madrid at the Emirates on superstar with live update on and had a fantastic game I was slightly better overall drew 2-2 and had 3 penalty kick during the game (2 for them 1 for me) 4 yellow cards and Real played great football too really enjoyed it

Then I tried the same match on legendary and lost 4-0 Real turned into Stoke unde Pulis spamming high balls to Benzema so the reality is this kind of play is by design its a quick way to make the AI dangerous enough for them to be competitive vs humans its why it wont be mentioned by Adam as a possible fix. He has actually replied to me every year over issues except this year but i have flooded him about the AI so much I expect a restraining order will be forthcoming
 
rojofa said:
Not even saying give them up, just play one you actually like. There must be one out of the 10+ released in the last 5 years or so that was enjoyable, or maybe even older ones (people still play PES6). Especially if you only play offline, you don't have to keep persevering with the latest versions that you don't enjoy.
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You have to get out from this loop in your head that whoever wants sliders actually hate Pes.

I love this Pes, I just want to have more gameplay customization since as long as we'll have two undisputed soccer games, developers will always gonna be lazy in a way or another.

rojofa said:
If the option is there to play with sliders, I am usually tempted to take it, but I prefer not to even have that choice because I'd rather just play and enjoy the game instead of almost subconsciously studying how the game is behaving and thinking about how I should change it.
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Yeah, what you feel for slides is very clear. But that's your personal problem on how you approach the situation, not something intrinsic of sliders. Stats editor change the gameplay too but I can't remember crusades because some kid in the 2008 did a global overslow to an horrible game.
 
Matt10 said:
This is a great example of different perspectives.

The similarity is that we both want to play PES. However, you would think that the result = "not playing PES", that it would affect that priority to "make people play PES".

The irony is if you said, "make more faces!" I'd say, fine, as long as they also pay attention to gameplay. If they don't want to pay attention to gameplay, then fine, give me gameplay customization. (EA + 2ksports approach).

Like I said, we're in times now where virtually all, if not most, sports games have sliders. Why is PES different? PES says it wants to get with the times with MyClub and probably Esports, then why are they lagging behind in this area?
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Look ... I've been waiting for a good PES game for 10 years! 10 years of disappointment, I think, are too much. Now .. I have a game that I like, that is really good and covers almost all my desires and needs so.. I am very afraid of over-criticism and thoughtless suggestions ... everything can go wrong AGAIN.

In my opinion, integrating sliders can be a mistake because it means rewriting the core and mechanic of the gameplay from ground zero, I may be wrong, but I do not want to risk that. We do not have to fix something that is not broken. Gameplay at this stage is good enough, we have to build on it with modes, new animations, and so on.

With PES 2018, Konami proved that I really understand football.

Believe me, I was a huge skeptic, and I criticized every step, but now things look good... are they? Again, PES is much much better than FIFA, at least as far as gameplay is concerned, so ... let's just build up.
 
PESBUL said:
Look ... I've been waiting for a good PES game for 10 years! 10 years of disappointment, I think, are too much. Now .. I have a game that I like, that is really good and covers almost all my desires and needs so.. I am very afraid of over-criticism and thoughtless suggestions ... everything can go wrong AGAIN.

In my opinion, integrating sliders can be a mistake because it means rewriting the core and mechanic of the gameplay from ground zero, I may be wrong, but I do not want to risk that. We do not have to fix something that is not broken. Gameplay at this stage is good enough, we have to build on it with modes, new animations, and so on.

With PES 2018, Konami proved that I really understand football.

Believe me, I was a huge skeptic, and I criticized every step, but now things look good... are they? Again, PES is much much better than FIFA, at least as far as gameplay is concerned, so ... let's just build up.
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You've been waiting 10 years? Same. I'm still waiting. However, do you see the irony here? Are you wanting to wait another 10 years?

PES 14 and 15 were better as a base in terms of gameplay. However, they didn't build off of those, did they? No, instead we got PES 16.

I'm not talking about a revolution or anything, I'm just asking for a flippin' option for a SOLUTION. Waiting another 10 years, and hoping they don't mess up, does not seem like a very good solution.
 
Whatsup with player positioning in PES?

All my full backs are staying back YET not covering the ground as there is always space behind them for a over the top through ball.

In general my player most of the time covering space behind the opposition rather than to intercept balls.

Midfield stays way back with the 4 defender sometimes having this big space between the half line and my 3 strikers.

Only the option file is wrong is the game like this in general?
And yeah as for the sliders could come handy for marking and for DF line like now.
 
elfie said:
You are probably right, I think i'm on professional now but maybe i should go down 1 level.
Thing is i recall the previous level being too easy.

That's where sliders would come in handy btw. If 1 level is too easy and the next too difficult sliders can help you to make the easy level more difficult or the difficult one easier by giving your team certain advantages.

I really feel that sliders would make pes an even better game.
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Seriously, Try Regular, it’s like Professional of previous years.
 
Chris Davies said:
Some people are only really interested (or at least, very heavily interested) in one gaming genre, or one sport, though.

Many people have said that they have to* play a football game all year - I'd put myself in that category. I'm not one who hangs onto the past but I think this year's crop are pretty disappointing, and as much as The Witcher 3 can be amazing, and Cuphead is great in co-op - I'm back on last year's football games (and still giving this year's Football Manager a go) because it's football I want to play.

*Not literally "have to". Obviously.
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Couldn't have said it better myself!
 
zeemeister said:
Sliders?

Fuck that. I don't have time to tinker and devs to start getting lazy because we can fix it..

Half the people here who want sliders are fifa players... If it was so great why are you even here. SMH
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No. Just no!
Half the people here who want sliders played other games that let you customize certain aspects of the gameplay and have experienced first hand what it can do to the game to better suit your tastes instead of having to wait for a full year OR little patches that are SUPPOSED to fix things. If you're lucky enough, these patches do fix the things you were expecting. However, more often than not, the patches don't fix shit. They might improve the 'overall experience' (as they call it) but they don't adjust the game to your personal taste. So indeed, you're left with a bittersweet sensation and you end up playing something you are not entirely in love with and hope that come June-July-August you start seeing the next game with everything you've been waiting for, for year. What happens next is you see SOME of those things in the new game, but some other things are still getting left out, or they changed something that you thought was perfect and now it feels worse.

So sliders WILL help you. And it won't save devs from having to improve.

FIFA has Sliders since 14 and yet you can see how many things they've improved/broke. It's not the same game as last year, much less compared to two years ago.

superleeds1 said:
Sliders will bring skating on ice,and odd running motion, seen it before.

There I've said it. Its a no from Me.
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How come? Skating is very much present right now. How will sliders "bring" it?. And what odd running motion are you talking about?.



What I don't understand from you lads, is that you're opposing to AN OPTION.

It's like complaining because they added "Cloudy With Rain" weather this year, and the OPTION to select Time Of Day and Weather Type in Master League before each match now: "Oh no! it sucks! I wanted to be surprised by the game!" IT'S JUST AN OPTION! You can still set it to Random!

It's not like we're talking about something that will force everybody to re-adapt or force you to use this "new thing" whether you like it or not.

Like it? Use it. Dislike it? Play vanilla game. Period! What is it that you are opposing to?.
 
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Chuny said:
No. Just no!
Half the people here who want sliders played other games who let you customize certain aspects of the gameplay and have experienced first hand what it can do to the game to better suit your tastes instead of having to wait for a full year OR little patches that are SUPPOSED to fix things. If you're lucky enough, these patches do fix the things you were expecting. However, more often than not, the patches don't fix shit. They might improve the 'overall experience' (as they call it) but they don't adjust the game to your personal taste. So indeed, you're left with a bittersweet sensation and you end up playing something you are not entirely in love with and hope that come June-July-August you start seeing the next game with everything you've been waiting for, for year. What happens next is you see SOME of those things in the new game, but some other things are still getting left out, or they changed something that you thought was perfect and now it feels worse.

So sliders WILL help you. And it won't save devs from having to improve.

FIFA has Sliders since 14 and yet you can see how many things they've improved/broke. It's not the same game as last year, much less compared to two years ago.



How come? Skating is very much present right now. How will sliders "bring" it?. And what odd running motion are you talking about?.



What I don't understand from you lads, is that you're opposing to AN OPTION.

It's like complaining because they added "Cloudy With Rain" weather this year, and the OPTION to select Time Of Day and Weather Type in Master League before each match now: "Oh now, it sucks! I wanted to be surprised by the game!" IT'S JUST AN OPTION! You can still set it to Random!

It's not like we're talking about something that will force everybody to re-adapt or force you to use this "new thing" whether you like it or not.

Like it? Use it. Dislike it? Play vanilla game. Period! What is it that you are opposing to?.
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We´re just affraid of the sacrifices that come with the sliders. I don´t know if implementing sliders can actually be done without changing anything in the base code, you know, to make it adjustable. We´re not affraid of sliders, we´re also affraid of what they can break when/if they are implemented.

The fact that some people here don´t want them, only proves how good the game is right now and how people are enjoying it, despite some flaws. I agree that sliders could prove usefull to change some dificulty parameters, but I can´t believe they will make a game better and more realistic on all the issues it might have.
 
xicpanad said:
We´re just affraid of the sacrifices that come with the sliders. I don´t know if implementing sliders can actually be done without changing anything in the base code, you know, to make it adjustable. We´re not affraid of sliders, we´re also affraid of what they can break when/if they are implemented.

The fact that some people here don´t want them, only proves how good the game is right now and how people are enjoying it, despite some flaws. I agree that sliders could prove usefull to change some dificulty parameters, but I can´t believe they will make a game better and more realistic on all the issues it might have.
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I really like the game this year. Flawed and all.
But I still believe that sliders (if implemented well) could have made it unbeatable.
 
gomito#10 said:
your using regular? Also Jimmy is spot on, I have been using R2 on headers and WHOA what a game changer. It shields the player from the opponent and Makes the player Jump higher... its weird. Jimmy how else do you use R2?
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I’m on Professional but actually prefer Regular on Zero Assist Passing. It’s a more balanced game. I’ve never, ever tried Regular, but Professional feels like Top Player this year.

Hold R2 and L2 and High Pass for a more controlled lifted high pass, especially with little power. Totally different to high Pass or lofted through ball. Look how high this goes with little pace.




Hold R2 off a goal-kick or set piece to position your player to receive the mid-air ball.


Hold R2 and X for a slow controlled accurate pass.

Hold R2 in possession to either drag-back (pull away from opposition ) or close control side-step (by holding up or down)

Hold R2 and X when receiving a pass. High or low for a first touch finesse pass.


https://youtu.be/hjIPNT7uD4E

Hold R2 and shoot for a controlled placed shot, powerful or delicate.


Hold R2 when close to a player for a composed standing tackle that never gets punished for a foul.


Press X to pass then R2 to activate a player run. Like a one-two, but more an after decision rather than an initial.

Hope this helps bro ;)
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
I’m on Professional but actually prefer Regular on Zero Assist Passing. It’s a more balanced game. I’ve never, ever tried Regular, but Professional feels like Top Player this year.

Hold R2 and L2 and High Pass for a more controlled lifted high pass, especially with little power. Totally different to high Pass or lofted through ball. Look how high this goes with little pace.




Hold R2 off a goal-kick or set piece to position your player to receive the mid-air ball.

Hold R2 and X for a slow controlled accurate pass.

Hold R2 in possession to either drag-back (pull away from opposition ) or close control side-step (by holding up or down)

Hold R2 and X when receiving a pass. High or low for a first touch finesse pass.


Hold R2 and shoot for a controlled placed shot.

Hold R2 when close to a player for a composed standing tackle that never gets punished for a foul.

Press X to pass then R2 to activate a player run. Like a one-two, but more an after decision rather than an initial.

Hope this helps bro ;)
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Thanks, Jimmy. Maybe I'll give Regular a go. I gave it a real go in PES 16. I'll try to my 5-sec fix from 17 and other areas, we will see. THanks for the video as well.
 
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