PES 2015 Discussion Thread (PS4/XB1)

I feel, that Konami has a core team of masterminds behind the math of gameplay, sorunded by a bunch of medicore, zero amibition guys responsible of all other aspects.

I think football games should be produced where the game is played on the highest level, in Europe, not in Japan or Canada
 
And if they feel, that the meaurement for customer satisfaction is a bunch of pro-Bhatti huys praising the game, they should have a look on the all-ime lowest sale numbers. And why the fuck the asked for feedback about gameplay via official surveys, if they do not plant to patch it..
 
bonyi said:
And if they feel, that the meaurement for customer satisfaction is a bunch of pro-Bhatti huys praising the game, they should have a look on the all-ime lowest sale numbers. And why the fuck the asked for feedback about gameplay via official surveys, if they do not plant to patch it..
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I certainly can't completely disagree with you. But lost of people like you are just moaners. Do you expect to be taken serious with feedback like this one ?
 
gerd said:
I certainly can't completely disagree with you. But lost of people like you are just moaners. Do you expect to be taken serious with feedback like this one ?
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I agree with you.

Pro Bhatti guys? :FAIL:

They know if their game failed or not, they have real numbers so they don't feel the need to change anything because they are satisfied with sales numbers.
 
I think they couldn't care less about sales numbers when people additionally spend hundreds of dollars for myClub coins.
 
gerd said:
I certainly can't completely disagree with you. But lost of people like you are just moaners. Do you expect to be taken serious with feedback like this one ?
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I cannot completely diagree with you :)

But tell me an exaple with pes, where structured feedback was used by Konami and changed the game for the good.

I'm disappointed and sometimes I have to let it out because I see, that the game could have been something special, but the for me pretty obvious failures were not addressed and I'm afraid if they do not see now, that the changes are necessary, they won't do it for next year
 
klashman69 said:
Shooting and keepers are good, i like them, the issue is the general movement.

The issue was never and has never been shooting is overpowered or keepers not being able to get to shots, the issues comes before that the constant 'same' goals where you player will always find space 16/25 yards out at 45 degrees to smash the ball in, or in close range to pass the ball in the net, this is because of the movement is too rigid, flat footed and grind like.

Its not that shooting is too accurate at all, it's how he's getting into that space and why he's able to have the same consistent balance to shot well from there nearly all the time!

As you see in my videos, the games are good, varied and exciting, sometime not but realistic in the teams buildup but the goals, they are always that same unstoppable 45 degree drive from the edge of the box!

If they nerfed the shooting like you said or made keepers with superhuman lighting like reactions you would get literally every game finishing 0-0 because the way the game has been made, its rather basic and there isn't the variety in goals like in years before.

PES 2013 was the opposite to this, had a practically unlimited variety of goals because the movement was so much better better, players took appropriate touches when on the ball not too many, proper cryuff turns, proper dribbling mechanic and presented a large amount of variables in body position and momentum from the players balance when shooting!

What doesn't feel right is when a player takes the ball from the wing, cuts inside a defender then scores at the far post, but takes 10-12 touches to do this, when he really only need 4 or 5 touches to do this.




Good, hopefully I'm right in knowing they cant really do much to the game in it's current state and put all efforts into evolving the movement back to 2013 levels for 2016.
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okay out of curiosity i tried out the PS3 demo and the retail game 1.00

demo:
- R2 shooting was much more difficult, it depend on player stance and on where do you pull the left stick while shooting

retail:
- R2 shooting, just pull up / down the stick no matter what and even the shittiest player can curl in one even to Neuer from 20 meters any time


so much for the retail will be the same as the demo bullshit



dont get me wrong even in the demo it is too strong imo one on one or when you are in front of the keeper and you only have to aim straight, but at least you can screw up your R2 shots and you cant score from anywhere
 
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Probably. I wont argue about this with u for sure :D but mainly because of the shooting in it i like it more.


Btw the PC demo is just like the retail. Wich i dont prefer. But the PS3 came out in september and it was the final product wich needed a few tweaks if i remember right. Well those few tweaks included making r2 shooting op.

So this game WAS good. Im not insane at least that i played months with the demo yet hated the retail because one aspect.
 
klashman69 said:
Shooting and keepers are good, i like them, the issue is the general movement.

Its not that shooting is too accurate at all, it's how he's getting into that space and why he's able to have the same consistent balance to shot well from there nearly all the time!
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No. I said three years ago that the shooting was being intentionally dumbed down when they removed the shot technique rating. And so now what we have is a game where any player can fire darts from any angle, regardless of his body balance and positioning. Konami has been "arcading" this series for the past few years by removing player ratings and other such elements. Two years ago they switched the ratings system from 1-99 to 40-99, making the players even more vanilla and indistinguishable from each other.

Pretty looking game with some nice elements, but with possibly the worst defensive AI and GK programming in the history of football video games. Along with the simplified shooting, defenders and GKs are WAY too slow to react, plus defensive tactics (line height and compactness) have no effect on defensive positioning/reaction whatsoever. Making it dead easy to split/lob the defense and to score plenty goals. Which is what the kiddies and the online crowd likes: goal-scoring excitement sells, boring old simulation football doesn't. This series is right on track from what I see Konami doing to it the past few years.

Just wanted to add: I enjoy PES for the most part, so much so that I seldom play FIFA anymore. But the horrible defensive/GK programming in PES is a real killer for me. In FIFA, I can at least force my team and CPU teams to park the bus and flood their box with defenders, which "fixes" the lousy defensive AI in that game. In PES, no such fix is possible, the game programming simply doesn't allow for it. Teams' defensive lines simply won't stay back far enough or play compact enough. PES is borderline broken in that regard.
 
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btw exactly. the same thing happenend to the Resident Evil series. um not shooting a player reaction wise :D but they turned the horror into action shooter since horror games can not be sold to the world wide audiance

hInXST2.gif
 
Borrowed this game at the weekend from a mate who wants rid. I said I’d give him £20 if I liked it.
I had the game from release day and got rid a few weeks ago after not playing it from Xmas.
I decided to start this game from fresh. Forget what I disliked about it before.

Don’t take long for those annoyances to come back does it?

We all know about Option File issues with PS4 so no point in going over that but, I will say though the shear amount of editing you have to do to get this game looking and playing what a basic football game should look and play like is a joke.
Stupid things like boots. Why can’t Konami just give every player a set of real boots? Even in the licensed teams (I picked O Lyon randomly) half the players are wearing the awful Konami default mint green boot. Why? Its stupid little things like that really grate.
Ok so Konami are not allowed the prem teams but they could at least get their kits 99% close to what they should be. To sort out kits, names etc takes a lot of time. Time that most don’t have.
Tactics – 99% of teams set up the same way so every game feels the same. Again, why should we have to go in and edit these teams just to get them playing properly.

Onto the pitch. So I start with O Lyon v Shalke. The game starts off well. But what’s with the cameras? Even if you go custom and max out the options it’s not far out enough. The new fan view for curved TVs (which I have) is too far out. Great when you have the ball but awful when you don’t. You can’t judge what’s going on over on the far side of pitch. As I say game starts well then they play long ball over the top, balls going out of play but Huntelaar somehow manages to stop ball going out in mid-air with the sole of his bouut, bring it under and bend in a shot that should never beat the keeper from the by-line but does. It’s like the keeper has smoke for hands.
10 minutes of a good game ruined by a something stupid.
The game plays lovely in periods but silly things keep letting it down. I just don’t trust Konami to ever sort it out.
 
Are people really playing this in 420p now?!

We'll be moving back to our parents house next and pretending it's the 90s!

:LOL:
 
SteelHorse75 said:
Borrowed this game at the weekend from a mate who wants rid. I said I’d give him £20 if I liked it.
I had the game from release day and got rid a few weeks ago after not playing it from Xmas.
I decided to start this game from fresh. Forget what I disliked about it before.

Don’t take long for those annoyances to come back does it?

We all know about Option File issues with PS4 so no point in going over that but, I will say though the shear amount of editing you have to do to get this game looking and playing what a basic football game should look and play like is a joke.
Stupid things like boots. Why can’t Konami just give every player a set of real boots? Even in the licensed teams (I picked O Lyon randomly) half the players are wearing the awful Konami default mint green boot. Why? Its stupid little things like that really grate.
Ok so Konami are not allowed the prem teams but they could at least get their kits 99% close to what they should be. To sort out kits, names etc takes a lot of time. Time that most don’t have.
Tactics – 99% of teams set up the same way so every game feels the same. Again, why should we have to go in and edit these teams just to get them playing properly.

Onto the pitch. So I start with O Lyon v Shalke. The game starts off well. But what’s with the cameras? Even if you go custom and max out the options it’s not far out enough. The new fan view for curved TVs (which I have) is too far out. Great when you have the ball but awful when you don’t. You can’t judge what’s going on over on the far side of pitch. As I say game starts well then they play long ball over the top, balls going out of play but Huntelaar somehow manages to stop ball going out in mid-air with the sole of his bouut, bring it under and bend in a shot that should never beat the keeper from the by-line but does. It’s like the keeper has smoke for hands.
10 minutes of a good game ruined by a something stupid.
The game plays lovely in periods but silly things keep letting it down. I just don’t trust Konami to ever sort it out.
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Man, it's like I typed this post - you have summed up all of my thoughts exactly.

PES for me is dead. I can't see how they'll improve it next year seeing as we can't get option files on PS4, which is what most PES gamers will play it on?
 
Fray Bentos said:
Man, it's like I typed this post - you have summed up all of my thoughts exactly.

PES for me is dead. I can't see how they'll improve it next year seeing as we can't get option files on PS4, which is what most PES gamers will play it on?
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A bit moaney but i hear your points.

An option file of some sort solves half of your issues.

If PES2016 has better edit and option file issues then that's half your issues resolved.

Editors has to commit that amount of work for the masses every year so i'm hoping this wake up call leads to more appreciation to what option file editors goes through.

As for the camera, its your choice to zoom so far out but if you have a large TV you can afford to come closer so you can see more details and time tackles better.

I also have a problem tackling when zoomed too far out so place the camera a bit closer for a better game.

As for your issue with tactics and teams, try playing with the live updates.. one of my option file partners edits the teams for the live updates.. future Option files will also fix that issue because option files will amend tactics.

So if Option files are sorted in 2016.. obviously the gameplay tweaks will improve in PES2016 so I feel you have no need to panic just yet.
 
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Sorry guys but... this podcast is @$@#$ . I disagree with much of what they say. But who cares what I think Konami will listen to them again and PES 2016 will be another trash but this time full with microtransactions.

PES 2015 is far far far from the perfect , even from a great game .. .. There are good things but the bad things are at times more, but they are happy .. .. I'm angry and I'll stop here
 
angus said:
No. I said three years ago that the shooting was being intentionally dumbed down when they removed the shot technique rating. And so now what we have is a game where any player can fire darts from any angle, regardless of his body balance and positioning. Konami has been "arcading" this series for the past few years by removing player ratings and other such elements. Two years ago they switched the ratings system from 1-99 to 40-99, making the players even more vanilla and indistinguishable from each other.
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They took shooting technique away so Ball control/technique now plays a bigger part in terms of how payers hit the ball, well that was pes 2012/2013 anyway, now its just basic in general.

For example they had 'Shot power' which was always an 'incorrect' term in that now, rightfully it's 'kicking power'

Shot accuracy and shot technique used to be very different in that shot accuracy was literally how accurately every shot was able to be played by the player and shot technique was the attribute which showed how well a player can shoot at difficult angles.

Now they have 'Finishing' which in attribute covers how accurate shots are for players and the types of shots and finishes each player can do in certain angles, or well its supposed to. With technique/ball control playing a bigger part in the accuracy and first time shots, passes etc.. at different angles.

Its for players like Xavi and Iniesta, they don't score many goals but usually take their chances when they are presented with a volley because they have the technique to hit the ball cleanly at a difficult angle.

Pretty looking game with some nice elements, but with possibly the worst defensive AI and GK programming in the history of football video games. Along with the simplified shooting, defenders and GKs are WAY too slow to react,
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I'll say the same thing i said to Gabe, the issue is when the players get in that same position for the 45 degree shot where the keeper does that half dive and and roll and its a 100% certain goal, the movement is very grid like, it allows players too much consistent balance for that shot to always happen. You have to look at it from the other way and see logically with that amount of balance in that angle when taking a shot, theres very little amount if any variables preventing him from missing because thats what happens with stiff movement.

It's all in the movement, and you said about you can get players to park the bus and compress space which is impossible in PES 2015, exactly, this is my point! That only will happen if the movement is sensitive and dynamic enough to allow that which is where PES 2015 biggest issue and weakness is.

This is why i'm still banging on about how good 2013 was.
 
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Gave up on superstar as the opponent in full manual play yesterday, at least for the time being. But it might not be all bad.

My 3.5 star team was facing a 2.5 star opponent away. The opponents had their CF in red condition and wingers in orange. My best CBs were arrow down, so I had to sub in some reserves. As sometimes happens, I decided to try to learn something by playing the match until I got at least a draw.

In the approx. 56th rematch I did the following. I chose very defensive tactics, and used only players in red condition (one DMF, one AMF, one winger) to deliver the ball upfield. A very gamey approch, and I shouldn't have to do that, but it worked: by half time I was up 0-3. The opponent was ridiculously good in intercepting (manual) passes, but they could not steal the ball from these red condition players.

In the second half I returned to regular, non-gamey play. At 70' the CPU intercepts a pass that would have been safe in any other conditions: 1-3. At 75' I hit the post. At 80' I have a loose ball inside my box, surrounded by four of my players and that CF: 2-3. I can see where this is going. I pass the ball to my keeper, have a cup of tea that lasts for 10+2 minutes (at the same time confirming with my own eyes that the CPU will not press the keeper), switch difficulty to top player and move on to the next match.

While some superstar matches are excellent entertainment, at least with my skills there are superstar away matches I know I simply can not win playing full manual unless I take a supergamey approach. Don't get me wrong: that's the way it should be. Superstar should absolutely be reserved for assisted play: otherwise it's too easy. The problem is that when PES came out, top player defense was too porous, which drove me to play superstar.

On the positive side, when I proceeded yesterday to play against top player, I found it to be a better opponent than I remembered. Either I have regressed, or the defensive enhancements that came with 1.03 (well, according to some of us) have done top player good. Played one match at home with result 2-1, and the CPU was a solid adversary. So maybe this frustration turns out to be a blessing in disguise. We'll see...
 
James, I'd be interested in knowing what you thought of Superstar on assisted - whether you suffer in the same way or whether it's a whitewash in your favour. I'm playing on semi-assisted on Superstar and I'm struggling to enjoy it, but then I don't seem to enjoy Top Player at all because even with manual controls I win most games (and I'm not a great player, far from it).
 
Chris Davies said:
James, I'd be interested in knowing what you thought of Superstar on assisted - whether you suffer in the same way or whether it's a whitewash in your favour.
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Never tried PES with any assistance level. Went full manual with Fifa 14 and there is no going back.

But defending is the same on manual and assisted, except that on manual you tend to hand the ball over in more dangerous positions. I usually give away 1-2 goals against superstar on full manual. But granted, the number of CPU goals does depend on how many you score, and in the more difficult matches therein lies my problem.

I don't seem to enjoy Top Player at all because even with manual controls I win most games (and I'm not a great player, far from it).
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That was my experience with 1.01. I am hoping my skills have diminished or 1.03 is better. The two cases might be equally likely. Might also depend on the league / your team. In 1.01 I played with Monaco, now with Twente. There is a considerable difference in offensive quality. Might even depend on tactics. With Monaco I could easily split through the centre of Top player defense. With Twente I am attacking wide.

Have your considered playing leagues with worse teams?

Edit. I am still struggling to figure out what makes some superstar matches so difficult. Away match with opponent attackers in red condition? That might be it. They score, and then they get an additional boost in team spirit. Maybe.

Your reply made me doubt abandoning superstar level. I didn't want to start thinking about that again.
 
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