PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

romagnoli said:
I don't remember people talking about this problem much when the demos were released, either (I may be wrong).


I don't disagree that impressions on single player are important - but people have to be realistic about why none have emerged as of yet, rather than being facile and cynical towards the press or community. It's May FFS.
Click to expand...

http://winningelevenblog.com/blog/pes2012-the-wenb-review/

From this review, doesn't look like people were talking about these issues with the retail code either. Not to worry though as the charming and downright compelling nature of the Football Lfe modes were pushed in great detail. I would go back on these boards and link to folks who after playing 2-5 games with their retail copies were noticing all the CPU, single-player issues that were completely ignored in the full review. But what the hell, it was only October FFS!!
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

kouroux said:
jeuxvideo.com say that the game is even more attack-orientated than before.Like the AI can still pull off those almost impossible to stop dribbling sequences.
wtf ?????
Click to expand...

they are not talking about AI, they are talking about human users being able to abuse R2 dribbling. It seems that using R2+ top players speed is a breeze to go through the defense

That is indeed worrying
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ameppe said:
they are not talking about AI, they are talking about human users being able to abuse R2 dribbling. It seems that using R2+ top players speed is a breeze to go through the defense

That is indeed worrying
Click to expand...

But in Pes 2012 that's also the case in online games tho.

I really want to see more user efforts when it comes to dribbling with top players in terms of timing, but there should also have more challenging in defence.I have not seen anyone talking about the pressure and fatigue/staminia system, it seems that it's already in people's DNA to hold down double pressure blindly and think it's normal to have no risk whatsoever by doing that.
 
Last edited:
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Too early to speculate about that. It would be pretty annoying if they had FINALLY removed any sort of unrealistic "catch-up", only needing to balance it all a little bit, and now, 'cause some people aren't as good as they wished at the game, they put it back again...
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

romagnoli said:
Or maybe, just maybe, EA / Konami want to be able to get as many people as possible playing the game at each press/community event. 16 at 8 booths, rather than 8.


And when was PES ever more of a single player game than a multiplayer game? It has always had both at its heart and soul. Fair enough if some of you'd rather this round of impressions was at least partly based on single player, but let's keep a level head while we're at it.
Click to expand...

Touched a nerve perhaps?

I totally understand why people at previews play human vs human and it's an important part of both titles but hardly the only important element. Many people do enjoy CM or ML which obviously is built upon the CPU vs human experience. Hence is rather important. Not that it ever seems to be a concern of previewers/reviewers (both professional and amateurs).

And it isn't cynicism, it's skepticism - which to my mind is perfectly reasonable as far as games are concerned in general and specifically for these titles. Perhaps romagnoli disagrees?
 
Last edited:
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

And that's great. The lead this time around is the guy who worked with PES 3 series :). Long time hardcore PES fan. Fresh approach was needed for the series as many said Seabass lost his way and didn't know what to do with series anymore ;).

Can't wait to see what comes out this time around... Waiting for E3 with high expectations now.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

trup2foryou said:
http://winningelevenblog.com/blog/pes2012-the-wenb-review/

From this review, doesn't look like people were talking about these issues with the retail code either. Not to worry though as the charming and downright compelling nature of the Football Lfe modes were pushed in great detail. I would go back on these boards and link to folks who after playing 2-5 games with their retail copies were noticing all the CPU, single-player issues that were completely ignored in the full review. But what the hell, it was only October FFS!!
Click to expand...

Really do you actually trust that particular source???
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

trup2foryou said:
http://winningelevenblog.com/blog/pes2012-the-wenb-review/
From this review, doesn't look like people were talking about these issues with the retail code either. Not to worry though as the charming and downright compelling nature of the Football Lfe modes were pushed in great detail. I would go back on these boards and link to folks who after playing 2-5 games with their retail copies were noticing all the CPU, single-player issues that were completely ignored in the full review. But what the hell, it was only October FFS!!
Click to expand...

People not reporting flaws in the retail code, having had access to the single player in the retail code, is another matter. The point I was making was that complaining that people probably haven't played any single player at this stage in the production cycle, when the only opportunity to play the game was at a one-day press event in Brazil, is unrealistic.

The reason I brought up the demo in particular is that I remember getting lambasted a few months ago by a couple of new people here who at the time were putting themselves about in a similar way - I had said PES 2012 seemed really good when I played it for half a day in late July. When I then had a look back at what people thought of the demo versions, the very same people were talking about how they couldn't get enough of the game after a few days of solid play! In fact the whole forum was pretty unanimous about it. Either something changed between the demos and the retail version, or pretty much everybody here was wrong. If it was the latter, then we may as well shut this place down and head over to PESfan. So assuming we agree on the former, then something changed between the code that was ready to roll for September (or very late August?) and the code that was released in October. Surely that puts complaints about what's being reported in May into context.

Arthur Young said:
Touched a nerve perhaps?
Click to expand...
Only that one-liner I highlighted, and only because it is absolutely reeked of undue cynicism (not skepticism).

I totally understand why people at previews play human vs human and it's an important part of both titles but hardly the only important element. Many people do enjoy CM or ML which obviously is built upon the CPU vs human experience. Hence is rather important. Not that it ever seems to be a concern of previewers/reviewers (both professional and amateurs).
Click to expand...
It is absolutely important, yes. I've no idea why reviewers don't spot such things when they've actually had access to the full, finished title, and have no reason to miss such things. Reviewers don't have long with the game, of course, and have to cover every mode. Even so they should be able to notice a trend in CPU performance when their job is to observe and articulate. Unfortunately there isn't such a thing as a football expert in the games journalism industry - there may be games reviewers who happen to know more about football than their colleagues, but given how often they only realise something is wrong with FIFA's representation of football when the next one comes out, you have to question how well positioned they are to make such calls in such a short space of time.


And it isn't cynicism, it's skepticism - which to my mind is perfectly reasonable as far as games are concerned in general and specifically for these titles. Perhaps romagnoli disagrees?
Click to expand...
Skepticism is fine. That one-liner was cynicism.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Re: 'professional' games journalists not spotting things. Even if they were professionally competent (a highly dubious assertion) if they were minded to be brutally and unflinchingly honest (and that resulted in a negative report) there are obviously some counter-pressures:

(i) the normal human psychology of not annoying someone doing you a favour - along the lines of "I'd like to be on the next all-expenses paid jolly to Brazil/Canada/Tokyo etc."

and

(ii) the company might complain to magazine/website etc., and ask them to send someone 'less negative' next time or no invite. Access is leverage.

For members of the community similar impulses exist - hell I would not risk my place on these jollies (if I was invited) by being too critical in public during the pre-release period.

Ultimately we only really find out about these games when they hit the stores.
 
Last edited:
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

MadbaLL said:
those new screenshots = pes 2011 v3
Click to expand...

Meh, Graphics are nice in PES (at least on PC where I play, when editors remove the blurriness). The Models are much better than FIFA's , while the texture could use work, it does not bother me.

Once we see it in motion and we get the demo, we can judge more completely.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

The most surprising information imho is that Seabass lost his position as chief-developer of PES. It was his baby from day one so that is a huge change. Apparantely the powers that be at Konami think Seabass lost his edge and new talent needs to get at the helmet.

Will be interesting to see in what new direction a Seabass-less PES 2014 will go.

Regarding PES 2013:

- I like the sound of not having to use supercancel.

- I'm curious about Player-ID, but if Konami manages to put only 10 players with player-ID into the game, it will be useless or worse it will make the game unbalanced. But I keep my fingers crossed that 100 players or more get that special treatment.

- Goalkeeper's improvements are most excellent news to me.

- Slower gamepace is also most welcome. I find -2 too fast after patch 1.06 on xbox360 so...

- I'm a bit concerned that manual shooting should be too finickly. I have the concern that Konami tries to make it extra-hard to keep people away from using it, so that shooting goals remains scripted. I hope not.

- I have read nothing about a new realtime two-tiered stamina/fatigue-system, which is heart-breaking, cause besides the animation-engine that is what keeps the game from feeling real.

- Nothing read about ballphysics, they are very basic and disappointing in PES 2012.

- Nothing read about graphics-improvement, especially level of detail in gamecam. Regardless if there are improvements to graphics and animation, if they look awful on wide-cam it was for nothing. Also nothing regarding night-game's look and feel.

I look forward to it, it should be at least a better PES 2012-version with more freedom and individuality, but I'm also curious what EA will achieve with Fifa 13 regarding AI.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Am I misunderstanding or is seabass busy with the development of the next gen PES? So far so good its hard to tell anything from these impressions but it all sounds promising the proof though lies in the pudding.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Arthur Young said:
Re: 'professional' games journalists not spotting things. Even if they were professionally competent (a highly dubious assertion) if they were minded to be brutally and unflinchingly honest (and that resulted in a negative report) there are obviously some counter-pressures:

(i) the normal human psychology of not annoying someone doing you a favour - along the lines of "I'd like to be on the next all-expenses paid jolly to Brazil/Canada/Tokyo etc."

and

(ii) the company might complain to magazine/website etc., and ask them to send someone 'less negative' next time or no invite. Access is leverage.

For members of the community similar impulses exist - hell I would not risk my place on these jollies (if I was invited) by being too critical in public during the pre-release period.

Ultimately we only really find out about these games when they hit the stores.
Click to expand...

This.
 
Last edited:
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

zeemeister said:
Am I misunderstanding or is seabass busy with the development of the next gen PES? So far so good its hard to tell anything from these impressions but it all sounds promising the proof though lies in the pudding.
Click to expand...

Some articles seem to hint towards a new PES franchise game, not next-gen. My guess is a 5-a-side game.

@henrys hand: Konami said in the press conference it will be around 40-50 players with "signature packages", while other players will also move and behave differently according to their stats.
 
Last edited:
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Yeah, I don't think Seabass was sacked or forced to step down. He's working on something else, which meant somebody had to step up into his PES role.

Arthur - I agree. That said, there's no reason why reviewers couldn't be balanced, or at least point out failings, and still give a favourable review. Not spotting that FIFA doesn't have first touch error, or that formations don't interact properly, or that defenders don't cover each other properly... These are all things that could have been pointed out while still giving an 8 or 9 out of 10. In PES' case, reviews have generally been more critical, but still (as far as I remember) didn't point out the defensive camping flaws.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I'm pleased that someone else has been given the chance to take over from Seabass. On the one hand I love the man dearly for the hundreds of hours of entertainment I've got from playing his games down the years. On the other hand - and if I'm being brutally honest - the man has failed the PES series on this generation of consoles and squandered a position of critical dominance that PES enjoyed on the PS2.

So I wish him well but time for a change.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Yes Seabass working on another project(s) is, on balance, good news - fresh thinking from others that have worked on PES but never been in control of final decisions. Well hopefully anyway!
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Let me pour a drink for some of you guys as obviously your glasses are half empty all the freakin time.

We get screenshots and people are straight away crying because they WANT VIDEOS's!

We get a review of whatever the press could playu in a limited time frame and people are straight away accusing them of not checking any other modes or that the games were not played against the CPU.

Toughen the $%^& up and take it for what it is.

If you don't have any optimism for Konami regardless of what they show or say, that's fine and I can understand why, but I don't think you need to be making a hoo ha about it from the very first information we get about the game.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

romagnoli said:
People not reporting flaws in the retail code, having had access to the single player in the retail code, is another matter. The point I was making was that complaining that people probably haven't played any single player at this stage in the production cycle, when the only opportunity to play the game was at a one-day press event in Brazil, is unrealistic.
Click to expand...

Duly noted and I agree. I thought you were having a go at us for being skeptical. With the history of PES hype and shoddy reviews, we as consumers of the game have every right to feel a bit dubious that this is - yet again - the iteration of PES that will bring it back to the PS2 glory days.

Look, it's like going out on a Fri night with your friends for a couple of beers. If you've come home in the past smelling of perfume and with lipstick on your collar, well then your wife has every right to be worried the next time you tell her your hitting the pub. If you've never displayed this behavior and your wife still gives you a hard time, then she's just being a bitch. Seems to me that journos and community folk covering PES the past few years stink of perfume and not only have lipstick on their collars, but on their crotch as well!!
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

You know what's a better solution? Don't like them? Don't read their reviews.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

It would have been nice to have videos but they will be posted when E3 is about.

There is a line that worries me in Adams review re keepers - it said something like the dives were a bit samey - something like that.

For me keepers will make or break PES13. Its no good have a great new shooting system if the keepers are shit anyway.
The have had Cassilas doing the diving so lets hope they do turn out great.
Konami have to realise that keepers dont dive for every shot or header at goal. Some of the animations in PES12 are crazy.
I have noticed a massive improvement since 1.06 but the animations let them down.
The animation of the keeper catching a shot thats straight at him about waist height and falling to his side in a circular motion has to go. Its been around since ISS and looked shocking back then.

Dont let us down Konami!!!
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I'd prefer if there were a lot more animations for keepers, but I'd be ok if they did the job properly, especially with quicker ball release and with not being exposed too much when they come out to narrow the angle down. Get the AI right for them and keep implementing more animations until release date is what I'm thinking.

However, they did only use two teams so I'm hoping different keepers would show off a wider variety of saves/animations.

Wasn't there meant to be further info out later today?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ameppe said:
they are not talking about AI, they are talking about human users being able to abuse R2 dribbling. It seems that using R2+ top players speed is a breeze to go through the defense

That is indeed worrying
Click to expand...

The AI of PES2012 was generally very good at times unstoppable at dribbling.If they've perceived that problem in the multiplayer mode, more than likely the same issue is present in the matches against the CPU.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I liked the talk of the John Terry fish dive.

764877_o.gif
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Keith Houchen said:
How much of these impressions are based on single-player? I'd put money on very very little. I'd even put some money on NONE AT ALL.

Pro Evolution Soccer is a single-player game in its heart and soul. All the summer previewers ever do is play against their mates from other websites and magazines. They've not actually played the game we'll end up playing in October.
Click to expand...

who cares about single player. its all about MP mate. welcome to the 21st century my friend.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom