Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

My problem with all of this is that if you go back to the words of Glen, Chris, et cetera, a year ago, we heard all the same crap. The absolute devotion and jubilation at almost every change they've made - and now I see it again.

If this game turns out a failure again ... bah.

That's fine. Think for yourself. You can do that, can't you? I'm just reporting on how things seem to be progressing, and considering how much they've implemented stuff that the public have asked for, specifically people in here, then of course there's going to be a very positive vibe. The game's still in its very early stages and we've played relatively little of it, so we don't know what the final game will be like when it has been released. So 'if this game turns out to be a failure', after 'all the same crap' and the 'absolute devotion' you're hearing from me, then you win the prize.

 

[pboreham]

Re: Fifa 11

@romagnoli - I'm not sure you can 'win' arguments with gamers.

If FIFA didnt listen or implement these things, then everyone would moan. If they do (and they are seeming to), then people find new stuff to moan about, rather than appreciate the hard work that is going into it.

My main issue is still probably one that will not be able to be seen until we actually have the games in our hands, is that can they make players and especially teams feel sufficiently different outside of the 'big divisions'?

 

[johnny_on]

Re: Fifa 11

Manual Passing

* Problem
o Hardcore players like to play manual
o ...but match up against assisted players
* Solution
o Coming soon...

Coming Soon......Hmmm ...Anyone any ideas what they might come up with???

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

In addition to the above, there's a myriad of smaller gameplay fixes that the team is working on for FIFA Soccer 11 for things like top spin shots, analog sprint...

Did you try to keep this away from us romagnoli? So now we should be able to have control over the sprint speed and not only toggle between jogging or sprinting.

Top spin shots is also something I've been moaning about in the official forums so I'm happy to see they're working on that too. Everything sounds so good on paper at the moment, almost nothing left from my feedback I've given on their forums. Really hope they can deliver in the end.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Does anyone know how this custom soundtrack feature in Fifa 11 will actually work?

Such as will we be able to create a custom playlist in-game then our music will stop automatically before the match starts then resume after like it does with EA trax or is it just XMB custom music support which means we have to stop the music ourselves before each match which would be a bit of a hassle.

Has anything about the soundtrack been announced? I thought it was entry and exit music for matches.


Stilts - nothing was mentioned explicitly about keepers flapping more etc, and noticing patterns in the keeping is the sort of thing that takes more than a few days of intermittent play for you to notice really. I'll try and make a list of unanswered questions to see if I can get anything from EA or from any second hands-on I or others may get.

Adelante - the tackling coverage is more about tackling when the ball isn't in front of you. For example if you're jockeying and an attacker tries to dribble past you, a good tackler is better at sticking a foot out to his side / behind him to knock the ball away. it was represented in a diagram as a bit like a PES 5 stat hexagon, where bad tacklers have a smaller tackling coverage area behind and to the side but fairly big in front, whereas top players have an almost full coverage area surrounding them. The size of the area was a radius of about 1m. A full coverage area does not mean automatic tackle success.

 

[DarthKebab]

Re: Fifa 11

Players still use their wrong foot alot of the time?

Can those who have played this give an answer please? surely it would be a major part to change after having players take 30 yard accurate shots with their wrong foot despite being in a central position to ensure it is their preferred foot.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Gab, analog sprint was my idea so I was chuffed to hear it was in (though I knew it was before I flew over) but ironically I haven't even used it yet - it wasn't in the old build and I was too busy looking at everything else in the two games I got of the newer build to try it out!

I guess I'll have to find out whether I can get gamespot at work. I can get the EA forums, but evo-web is blocked - work that one out...!

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Darth - I don't know if it's going to change but it hadn't radically improved for the builds we played. The accuracy of passing was impacted by weaker foot use though.

We discussed with the devs an idea someone had about a 'stronger foot only' button, but I said I'd much rather if they fixed the logic that determines which foot is used rather than making things that fiddly. So it was discussed with them. Whether the final build has any changes - it's too early to say.

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Did you notice if dribbling were done mainly with the stronger foot? I doubt they've gone so far with the individuality yet, but it would be a nice touch.

 

[nerf]

Re: Fifa 11

However the defensive lines hadn't been fixed yet - Gary P said so from the off when they listed a number of known bugs with the build we had.

Hopefully that means it's on the list and will get fixed then. I'm liking the sound of everything else, but the defensive line, marking/covering and weak foot frequency are the ones I'm still really hoping for.

 

[tobi]

Re: Fifa 11

What about the defensive AI in general, in 09 and 10 the defenders would initially be in the right position but when the ball was played towards the striker they would automatically jump forward for no reason. With some fight (manual cursor switching), I can prevent them from doing this but eventually the defender will get his wish and push forward. I'm not talking about needlessly pressing the ball, just jumping forward as if their trying the play offside. Also did any of your CB's go MIA at any stage when you were playing. Has this been improved?

Also have they fixed the manual cursor switching and did any bring up the clones online?

 

[DarthKebab]

Re: Fifa 11

Darth - I don't know if it's going to change but it hadn't radically improved for the builds we played. The accuracy of passing was impacted by weaker foot use though.

We discussed with the devs an idea someone had about a 'stronger foot only' button, but I said I'd much rather if they fixed the logic that determines which foot is used rather than making things that fiddly. So it was discussed with them. Whether the final build has any changes - it's too early to say.

Thanks for the feedback, it really is a dealbreaker for me, the whole dynamic of the game would improve 1000% if this was implemented.

In situations where you have no choice to use wrong foot fair enough but in an open field they should never ever use their incorrect foot for important decisions such as shooting, in real life some players even have to adjust their whole body as they would not use their other foot.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Gab, I don't think the dribbling is one footed yet. It's the sort of thing you notice one way or the other if you look for it specifically, and I'm afraid I didn't.

Incidentally, in that E3 gamespot site you can see a pic for the video interview with the red and blue men? That marking on the floor is tackling coverage.

Darth, I promise I'll ask. I need to go through what we have so far so I have a decent list!

Tobi, defensive AI was and will be improved, but there was still a fair bit of work due in that area of the game. I can say that I scored a really good goal with Carlton Cole (I think) where I took a first touch that rolled a defender who was right on my back, before smacking it in fom the edge of the D. As mentioned before I think the biggest fix for this 6 yard standoff issue (which, I reckon, is also why the fullbacks get trapped in that 'run back 10 yards behind the defence', because they're coded to stay too far away from the attacker to have the option to stop and leave the attacker offside) will be the auto shielding. It's not just the attacker who will hold off the defender; the defender will/should have the means to stop the attacker from turning. So, instead of the full back having to stand off 6 yards from the winger due to lack of shielding interaction, in FIFA 11 the plan is he should be able to get right on the winger and hold him up.

Shielding was only in a very early form in the first build we played so it wasn't as extensive as it will be; I'm adding shielding to my list of new build fixes (you'd be surprised how little you pick up from just two games of a drastically changed build).

 

[WILDSTER180774]

Re: Fifa 11

can someone explain 'analogue sprinting' please?

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

can someone explain 'analogue sprinting' please?

I would assume it is the more you press the right trigger, the faster you go.

 

[Bitter Rivals]

Re: Fifa 11

Manual Passing

* Problem
o Hardcore players like to play manual
o ...but match up against assisted players
* Solution
o Coming soon...

Coming Soon......Hmmm ...Anyone any ideas what they might come up with???

yea, that means it will be fixed with fifa 15

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

That's fine. Think for yourself. You can do that, can't you? I'm just reporting on how things seem to be progressing, and considering how much they've implemented stuff that the public have asked for, specifically people in here, then of course there's going to be a very positive vibe. The game's still in its very early stages and we've played relatively little of it, so we don't know what the final game will be like when it has been released. So 'if this game turns out to be a failure', after 'all the same crap' and the 'absolute devotion' you're hearing from me, then you win the prize.

I just think we need to be wary of what happened last year. Every single person who went to play this game came back talking of it like the messiah; and little more than the same has happen this year - even the problems of FIFA 10 would have been visible in the short sessions you guys get unless the problems were specifically created over a period of time. Don't get me wrong, I was taken in by FIFA 10s demo, as well as the ludicrously positive press given by the lucky community members - but not anymore.

It's difficult for me to tell whether this game is actually looking/feeling/sounding really great or if once again the shine of the new has blocked out the crippling problems of old.

The defensive AI particularly is the kind of thing which should be very obviously right or wrong - and yet we heard nothing about that, but a lot of sensationalist pseudo-journalism. Certainly, if EA's intention with this community programme is to get a good press and a huge hype they are doing a good job, but given last year, I worry that once again we are not getting the full picture - and if this occurs for the second year straight I think some questions about the point of this community project need to arise, because last year it acted as the perfect PR machine for EA, rather than a good asset to our community or even a particularly reliable source.

A lot of the issues seem to be skirted over as "things which will be sorted" - and thus I think we may not be hearing a lot of what is wrong. There seems to be more of an emphasis of talking about what is right than talking about what is wrong.

What I fear, is that the people going, far from being stung by the last year fiasco (though admittedly many of the people who have gone this yera are different people), have fallen into the same trap.

 

[kouroux]

Re: Fifa 11

Again Romagnoli thanks for all this infos and making this a very nice thread as opposed to the ones in the "official" forums.I did ask a question in a previous but maybe you missed it so I quote myself

@romagnoli: Have you noticed if clearances and in general "long balls" can go further than in the current games ?? I mean you can see in real life keepers/players that can shoot the ball from their penalty box to the opponents'.
The maximum you can reach with the long ball power bar should be increased.This way you could make proper long through balls from (let's say) RB to the LW or striker.

 

[AlaaEG]

Re: Fifa 11

Gab, I don't think the dribbling is one footed yet. It's the sort of thing you notice one way or the other if you look for it specifically, and I'm afraid I didn't.

Incidentally, in that E3 gamespot site you can see a pic for the video interview with the red and blue men? That marking on the floor is tackling coverage.

Darth, I promise I'll ask. I need to go through what we have so far so I have a decent list!

Tobi, defensive AI was and will be improved, but there was still a fair bit of work due in that area of the game. I can say that I scored a really good goal with Carlton Cole (I think) where I took a first touch that rolled a defender who was right on my back, before smacking it in fom the edge of the D. As mentioned before I think the biggest fix for this 6 yard standoff issue (which, I reckon, is also why the fullbacks get trapped in that 'run back 10 yards behind the defence', because they're coded to stay too far away from the attacker to have the option to stop and leave the attacker offside) will be the auto shielding. It's not just the attacker who will hold off the defender; the defender will/should have the means to stop the attacker from turning. So, instead of the full back having to stand off 6 yards from the winger due to lack of shielding interaction, in FIFA 11 the plan is he should be able to get right on the winger and hold him up.

Shielding was only in a very early form in the first build we played so it wasn't as extensive as it will be; I'm adding shielding to my list of new build fixes (you'd be surprised how little you pick up from just two games of a drastically changed build).

Much appreciated info, romagnoli. Thank you.

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Isn't ping pong passing the reason why manual people don't want to play against assisted people? Or has it become some sort of elitism that goes beyond that?

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Rod - how can we talk about what is going to be wrong with a game that is barely finished?

As I've said on numerous occasions, I'm looking to get a second play of the newer build if I can because it was markedly improved from the first build we played. It really is hard to make a judgement call about whether defensive AI will be completely fixed in the final build based on a very early, quite sketchy build where the first thin we were told was that defensive lines haven't been fixed.

I appreciate that being condescending is your modus operandi but it would help if you read everything and applied your own common sense rather than expect to be spoonfed exactly what it is you are supposed to think.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

Isn't ping pong passing the reason why manual people don't want to play against assisted people? Or has it become some sort of elitism that goes beyond that?

It's a lot of factors. If just solving the ping-pong-passing is the solution then we will see the same backlash as before I can only imagine.

Assisted leads to a lot more issues than just ping-pong passing. They'll also need to have dealt with the impossibly stupid ability to play pin-point perfect throughballs, the over-ease of longshots, the fact that manual users have to charge up their passes when assisted players can just tap it (possibly sorted?), and so on.

Getting assisted moderately well balanced with semi is perhaps within our grasps now (in that, semi -should- be more effective than assisted for a good player)... but unless they've radically changed manual to make it easier I'd be very surprised if this year's changes will be enough. Of course, this is one of the things which really would be very hard to test in the amount of time you guys had. Did you even get to try different control schemes?

@Romagnoli: Very glad to hear that your push to get analog speed control has got into the game. Having tried to push a similar idea in early 2007 and in 2009 and failing completely both times makes me appreciate the effort you put into getting that done. I was probably arguing with too many people about the M16 on Call of Duty at the time. It's been such an obvious step for a long time I think - I'm surprised they did 360 degree movement first really, considering. We will now have true analog movement - EXCELLENT!

Rod - how can we talk about what is wrong with a game that is barely finished?

Easily. You just have. You've just told us that the defensive lines are still broken - which is fine if they do fix it. You may have said it before (I haven't read every post you've written but I have read every mainstream journalists opinion as well as Chris Davies and pretty much every post on the FIFA forums too) but I think it's plenty easy to say what is wrong - as long as you attach a relevant disclaimer.

As I've said on numerous occasions, I'm looking to get a second play of the newer build if I can because it was markedly improved from the first build we played. It really is hard to make a judgement call about whether defensive AI will be completely fixed in the final build based on a very early, quite sketchy build where the first thin we were told was that defensive lines haven't been fixed.

No one is asking you to know whether they -will- be right but I do think we should be told whether they -are- right. Am I meant to presume that everything unmentioned is unchanged?

I appreciate that being condescending is your modus operandi but it would help if you read everything and applied your own common sense rather than expect to be spoonfed exactly what it is you are supposed to think.

Lush hypocrisy. We were all taken in last year including you. I'm just trying to make sure that doesn't happen again and I think if we were told the truth about what it is now rather than just what is right then maybe it would be a little bit different. I'm not going to be taken in this year but I think others will if you guys are too one-sided. Maybe you aren't being. Maybe this game really is great. Maybe they really will solve all of the issues. I think you should remember how we all reacted before accusing this line of posting as my condescending modus operandi (not that I'm not condescending, but that this is about a very real issue).

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Rodelero: It sounds like they're working on all those things, because the direction of through balls have more errors now I think. I guess it's shot accuracy that we haven't heard anything about, unless I missed it. And obviously the problem with constant pressing, that would be solved with proper stamina implementation. I think PES 2011 will have two, one short term stamina and one main stamina. This way you can't sprint full speed all the time because the short term will go down quickly. I can't see assisted have too much advantage if these things are fixed.

Romagnoli did through balls also have the passing bar on assisted? Is it for all types of passes and crosses or only for normal passes? If it's for every type of pass they should be able to solve a lot of the problems with assisted players being too good I think.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

Rodelero: It sounds like they're working on all those things, because the direction of through balls have more errors now I think. I guess it's shot accuracy that we haven't heard anything about, unless I missed it. And obviously the problem with constant pressing, that would be solved with proper stamina implementation. I think PES 2011 will have two, one short term stamina and one main stamina. This way you can't sprint full speed all the time because the short term will go down quickly. I can't see assisted have too much advantage if these things are fixed.

Well, technically isn't short-term stamina and main-stamina already what we have in FIFA? I fear that for all of the changes assisted will still be just too effective. I'm not sure whether manual can ever be as effective as assisted unless manual is made easier. I think it's unlikely assisted will ever be made hard enough. It sounds like assisted is being more manual which is great - but without a little bit in the other direction I think we'll be left wanting... unless EA have gone with the route of segregation.

Romagnoli did through balls also have the passing bar on assisted? Is it for all types of passes and crosses or only for normal passes? If it's for every type of pass they should be able to solve a lot of the problems with assisted players being too good I think.

Yes, this is a big one. If on assisted you tap pass, does the pass go to a receiver even if the receiver is a long way away? The lack of a need to waste time powering up is one of the core advantages assisted has. I guess until they announce what the solution to the control system problem is we may not know. Do you guys know what that is yet and are NDA'd or, is it an announcement we'll be waiting on?

 

[ELTONSP]

Re: Fifa 11

I would assume it is the more you press the right trigger, the faster you go.

Looks fantastic

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Well, technically isn't short-term stamina and main-stamina already what we have in FIFA?

Not sure, I haven't noticed that you can take short bursts, getting tired and then later being able to do it again. As far as I know you can sprint constantly until your main stamina is low, so basically you get slower the longer time that pass by.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Here you go Rod, a nice little disclaimer for you.

I'm not going to go into detail with what is wrong with a completely unfinished game; it's a complete waste of time for everyone involved. If I say there were trapping issues with the first build that made buildup play quite difficult then that gives no benefit to anyone because that was completely fixed in the next build we played. The same goes for the passing speed which was only slightly faster than the typical sprinting speed, or the positioning of the players being too squashed and leading to a lot of scraps for the ball. That was all fixed in the following build.

So what benefit does it give to talk about stuff that is clearly down to the work in progress status of the game? If I say that defensive lines still need work (as I have done several times) then that is with the caveat that it is still being worked on, because it's still being worked on. What we are shown is not the very latest build, but one of the milestone builds that a dev studio will make at various checkpoints in the game's lifetime to try and balance things as well as possible and see what needs improving at each stage.

The difference between your 'not naming names' condescension and my giving it back is that, given that I have spent most of this thread being pretty open and honest about the status of the game and making it clear that anything we say is at the mercy of the next few months of EA's development cycle, mine is entirely warranted. I've not been invited because I'm a FIFA fanboy who hates PES with a passion, or a yes man without a spine in his body, but because I did (I think it's fair to say) a fuck load of work to make sure the ideas this community has for the FIFA series is being passed Straight to the top of the FIFA tree, in as clear and descriptive a format as possible. For you to come in here and offer up your opening gambit, knowing full well that I was one of the people to have one across the pond, and without reading what I had said up till then, goes beyond blunt honesty and towards twattishness.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

Not sure, I haven't noticed that you can take short bursts, getting tired and then later being able to do it again. As far as I know you can sprint constantly until your main stamina is low, so basically you get slower the longer time that pass by.

Not my feeling of how it works. You have two bars (on top of eachother). The blue one is short-term and the white is long term. They both start on 100%. As you start sprinting the blue one drops very fast - and the white one much slower. The blue one fills back up only to the point the white one has got to.

Once you have no blue bar you can no longer sprint at full pace - though you can still 'sprint' at a faster pace than normal.

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: Fifa 11

I can get the EA forums, but evo-web is blocked - work that one out...!

That will be Jay......

Thanks for the info, sounds good. Although I'm worried they need to exagerrate the differences to make it really have a big effect on the game. And I'm not sure they are allowed due to licensing.

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Not my feeling of how it works. You have two bars (on top of eachother). The blue one is short-term and the white is long term. They both start on 100%. As you start sprinting the blue one drops very fast - and the white one much slower. The blue one fills back up only to the point the white one has got to.

Once you have no blue bar you can no longer sprint at full pace - though you can still 'sprint' at a faster pace than normal.

You know you are probably right, because I don't have any HUD activated so I haven't seen the bars in a very long time. If it is the case then that's awesome, then they only have to tweak it so you actually notice it, because I feel like I can run full speed all the time when playing BAP or CYC in WC.