Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Gab, short term stamina has been in FIFA for a while now? It was in 10 and the WC game. Look out for it next time you play either of them.

All passes have a power bar including throughies.

Manual will never be as effective as assisted or semi assisted passing, not in its current form on analog sticks with no points of reference and a pad that can be moved and twisted in your hands as you look at the screen. But making assisted and semi passing use a manual power bar is a pretty big step towards bringing them closer together which is the only realistic possibility over the course of the next couple of years.

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Gab, short term stamina has been in FIFA for a while now? It was in 10 and the WC game. Look out for it next time you play either of them.

Yeah I don't play with any HUD activated so I didn't know. But don't you agree that it can't be working very well? I have never seen a player getting tired after a long sprint so that he can't continue sprinting. I thought this was the reason for pressuring being so effective in the FIFA games. They never seem to get tired.

 

[luke909]

Re: Fifa 11

Has anything been mentioned about defenders being put on the goal line for freekicks?

When the opposition does that, the AI should bring my players forward into the 6 yards box, rather than standing 18 yards out.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

Gab, short term stamina has been in FIFA for a while now? It was in 10 and the WC game. Look out for it next time you play either of them.

All passes have a power bar including throughies.

But that's already true - isn't it. There is already a powerbar for them isn't there? But does it actually do anything now? I mean, right now, if to tap the pass button it goes to the first person there. But now, if you tap pass on assisted will it do a good pass to that player - or will it do a short, bad one?

Manual will never be as effective as assisted or semi assisted passing, not in its current form on analog sticks with no points of reference and a pad that can be moved and twisted in your hands as you look at the screen. But making assisted and semi passing use a manual power bar is a pretty big step towards bringing them closer together which is the only realistic possibility over the course of the next couple of years.

Well then don't you agree that manual should be made easier to give us a third viable option?

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Gab,

I'm stretched across both here and the EA forums at the mo but I posted a comment about the stamina there. Basically the stamina was not significantly improved, so I showed the stamina levels to the devs at the 90 minute mark or so and they agreed that it was well off the mark. I doubt it will have been fixed for the press build either but from the furrowed brows on their faces I'm pretty sure that will be moving quite high up their priority list.

Everyone,

this is the time when EA are going to be doing a lot of number tweaking to balance the game. Most of the technological stuff will likely be implemented by mid July or so, with the rest being about the numbers that become the outcomes that we all see. If you have suggestions that are basically going to involve number tweaks rather than new animations etc, such as the stamina issue or improved ball physics or whatever, then please post in my suggestions thread. I'm gonna start sending stuff over tonight - questions, initial thoughts, suggestions etc, and Gary really is eager to hear ideas both small and large. I've been sending him horrifically large PM's and he still signs off with'keep the feedback coming' so it'd be rude not to..

Can somebody post Gary's C&VG interview from today please, and tell me how to do the smug smiley when he talks about shooting?

 

[nerf]

Re: Fifa 11

How would you make manual easier while still being fully manual?

I don't find it too difficult as it is, although I don't play against assisted players. And surely an 'easier manual' would become Semi?

 

[jonneymendoza]

Re: Fifa 11

How would you make manual easier while still being fully manual?

I don't find it too difficult as it is, although I don't play against assisted players. And surely an 'easier manual' would become Semi?

Its difficult trust me. can u string passes like most can on semi? very hard to play one touch football on manual. you need time and space to make your passes go to the appropriate man.

 

[PU6HY]

Re: Fifa 11

Well then don't you agree that manual should be made easier to give us a third viable option?

errr. No. Manual isn't supposed to be easy. You practice at it and get better. You don't make it easier for the kiddies and adult gimps to rip the piss out of it! Jeez. And yeah, semi is the easier manual as somebody else mentioned.

I'm chuffed to bits that they are getting rid of the laughable ping ponging by introducing this. I just hope it works as stated.

 

[Searain]

Re: Fifa 11

I then please post in my suggestions thread.

Where's this thread at?

 

[drekkard]

Re: Fifa 11

When you get the hang of it, you can string great passing plays in Manual. That's playing against another manual player online who won't abuse pressure all of the time. So, if they solve presing, you can shield the ball, and things get more tactical, then I see how Manual should be way closer than Assisted. But, anyway, it's obvious Assisted will always be easier. It doesn't matter to me. I only play people I know and have an absolute awesome time with them: Azzur, Quietriot, Balccat...

Romagnoli, keep up the good work, thanks for all the info and effort you're putting.

Overall, I'm liking all I hear. Of course, good ideas can be badly implemented (fifa 10, pes 2010) but at least they're going in the right direction. Of all the things I wanted them to change as a hardcore gamer, maybe 75% of them ARE being worked. They can do it right or wrong, but in such a popular and broad franchise as Fifa, I'm satisfied if only 50% of what they're promising is well done.

I'm having great great times playing manual with the aforementioned people, so can't wait to see if it's true that the overall outcome is a more thoughtful, tactical game. At least it seems the are trying. I had to wait 8 years for Konami to start listening.

 

[WEtongelre]

Re: Fifa 11

Hopefully there will be a "On-off button" for celebrations. I hate it when the camera zooms in directly after scoring.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Re: Fifa 11

When you get the hang of it, you can string great passing plays in Manual. That's playing against another manual player online who won't abuse pressure all of the time. So, if they solve presing, you can shield the ball, and things get more tactical, then I see how Manual should be way closer than Assisted. But, anyway, it's obvious Assisted will always be easier. It doesn't matter to me. I only play people I know and have an absolute awesome time with them: Azzur, Quietriot, Balccat...

Romagnoli, keep up the good work, thanks for all the info and effort you're putting.

Overall, I'm liking all I hear. Of course, good ideas can be badly implemented (fifa 10, pes 2010) but at least they're going in the right direction. Of all the things I wanted them to change as a hardcore gamer, maybe 75% of them ARE being worked. They can do it right or wrong, but in such a popular and broad franchise as Fifa, I'm satisfied if only 50% of what they're promising is well done.

I'm having great great times playing manual with the aforementioned people, so can't wait to see if it's true that the overall outcome is a more thoughtful, tactical game. At least it seems the are trying. I had to wait 8 years for Konami to start listening.

You should come and play me in a manual game then. im happy to play fifa 10 in manual. i already play in semi with throughballs set to manual plus there are a lot of people from avf you can play in manual.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Drek,

that's the key point when taking in all this news. EA are making a lot of changes in areas we want them, but that doesn't mean they'll be perfect - some will overshoot, some will not be big enough changes, some will lead to whole new problems. That's part of the perennial struggle to make the best football game possible. EA are taking very bold new steps with their personality improvements and with pro passing. As with PES 2011's animations, it won't be utterly bang on first time unless they luck out, but that's why our feedback is going to be utterly essential when 11 comes out. Gary made noises about a new patching system in a C&VG interview, and also about a possible sim mode for FIFA 12. I think FIFA 11 is shaping up to be a great game of football, but it's also an investment into a series of games that us lot, right here, can continue to have a big say in.

 

[nerf]

Re: Fifa 11

Its difficult trust me. can u string passes like most can on semi? very hard to play one touch football on manual. you need time and space to make your passes go to the appropriate man.

One touch football should be difficult, shouldn't it? As Drekkard says, you can put together some fluid one/two touch moves with Manual controls.

You could even do it on 09, presumably it's even easier on 10/WC with 360 degree direction and better movement.

YouTube - ManualComp2.flv
Offline and in Slow mode, admittedly.
Edit: Wasn't 09's 'Overcast' weather lighting horrible

I'm just not sure how you could make Manual easier without it becoming, well, semi-assisted.

Where's this thread at?

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=54775

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Retri,

back up to the FIFA subforum and look for 'Let's FIFA 11/12/13'. There's a gameplay and an MM thread.

 

[drekkard]

Re: Fifa 11

One touch football should be difficult, shouldn't it? As Drekkard says, you can put together some fluid one/two touch moves with Manual controls.

That's the kind of play you can achieve in manual when you've put a lot of time and get better at aiming. It's bloody hard to achieve, though, as it is in real life. That's why manual sometimes can be very rewarding, because exceptional things are difficult to happen, and when they do you feel greatly rewarded.

I myself have done plays like that now and then, and my opponents as well do great plays sometimes, but it takes some luck, some skill and defender to make some mistakes in the way and don't abuse with the pressure.

Jonney, I would be delighted to play manual with you, but last time I saw, you hadn't been connected to psn for a month. Note that playing semi vs. manual in the current states gives a huge lead to the one playing semi. Switching to manual is not that hard, it's a matter of patience and obstination.

But once you master passing, there's no way back. Passing in semi feels too "scripted" (most dangerous word to describe it, I know)...

Romagnoli, now that I've read all the thread, I have more questions. You've talked many times about trapping. Are they doing special to trapping that involves any kind of user input or it's all down to the player attributes? Are there different ways to trap the ball? With the right stick you could "directionally" trap the ball towards a direction in past fifas. Has this received any kind of attention?

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Can't remember if I answered this, but yes, I meant that through balls use pro passing too.

By the way, if it's been missed, you don't see the Pro Passing 'ideal' marker until the ball has been hit, so you don't have an arrow onscreen saying 'stop charging here'.

 

[kouroux]

Re: Fifa 11

Can't remember if I answered this, but yes, I meant that through balls use pro passing too.

By the way, if it's been missed, you don't see the Pro Passing 'ideal' marker until the ball has been hit, so you don't have an arrow onscreen saying 'stop charging here'.

Then honestly what's the point of having this marker ?

 

[jonneymendoza]

Re: Fifa 11

One touch football should be difficult, shouldn't it? As Drekkard says, you can put together some fluid one/two touch moves with Manual controls.

That's the kind of play you can achieve in manual when you've put a lot of time and get better at aiming. It's bloody hard to achieve, though, as it is in real life. That's why manual sometimes can be very rewarding, because exceptional things are difficult to happen, and when they do you feel greatly rewarded.



I myself have done plays like that now and then, and my opponents as well do great plays sometimes, but it takes some luck, some skill and defender to make some mistakes in the way and don't abuse with the pressure.



Jonney, I would be delighted to play manual with you, but last time I saw, you hadn't been connected to psn for a month. Note that playing semi vs. manual in the current states gives a huge lead to the one playing semi. Switching to manual is not that hard, it's a matter of patience and obstination.



But once you master passing, there's no way back. Passing in semi feels too "scripted" (most dangerous word to describe it, I know)...



Romagnoli, now that I've read all the thread, I have more questions. You've talked many times about trapping. Are they doing special to trapping that involves any kind of user input or it's all down to the player attributes? Are there different ways to trap the ball? With the right stick you could "directionally" trap the ball towards a direction in past fifas. Has this received any kind of attention?

I was away in February but either then that I'm.always on.

ps3 name is AVF_JonneyM



Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: Fifa 11

Then honestly what's the point of having this marker ?

So glad to hear that you can't see it during button pressing. It means you have to learn what the correct power is per player (assuming pass power/accuracy will be easily felt between different players).

You could argue that they might aswell just ditch it, which for hardcore gamers is true really. We will know which player can do what type of pass based on our football knowledge, guess it's a bit of a tutorial for the crapper players.

 

[stilts1844]

Re: Fifa 11

@rom

Thanks for the reply to my question. I would also suggest that they finally fix your central defenders being on the post on corners, that's been a problem for ages now.

Also I saw that you had mentioned that the big problem isn't the skill moves themselves, but rather the amount/type of players that have 5 stars - 5 stars really should be reserved for the best of the best (Ronaldinho, Ronaldo etc) rather that players that are good at dribbling, but don't necessarily run around doing the elastico (Sean Wright Phillips, Rooney). Really hope this is being addressed, especially as it goes a long way towards their focus on individuality.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

errr. No. Manual isn't supposed to be easy. You practice at it and get better. You don't make it easier for the kiddies and adult gimps to rip the piss out of it! Jeez. And yeah, semi is the easier manual as somebody else mentioned.

I'm chuffed to bits that they are getting rid of the laughable ping ponging by introducing this. I just hope it works as stated.

But what Romagnoli has already speculated is that manual still won't be competitive - and that's always going to be a problem. In fact, considering these error-factors apply to manual for passing, it's arguably going to get even harder. I play manual when I can and it's the only way I can enjoy this game in non-clubs format - but currently manual just isn't viable for competitive football. It's simply too difficult to ever be more effective than assisted will be in my mind... and I don't think that's because assisted will always be too effective.

The difference between semi and manual is a big enough gulf for it to be made slightly smaller. It's probably one of the big things which makes manual so much less popular - it's just SO much harder.. and whilst I love how it makes FIFA play relatively, it's just a bit too hard. Shooting is just a bit too hard, short, quick passing is almost impossible ala Barcenal. A little assistance could go a long way to solving many issues at once.

You are right that changing manual would stop it being manual - I think that's a step we should be willing to take. The gap between semi and manual is enormous currently - larger than the gap between assisted and semi (this all could have of course already changed but.. hell). Of course manual could be kept as a super-hardcore option but even as the most zealous supporter of manual against assisted, I think we're asking too much to balance it.

If we stop constraining ourselves by calling manual settings manual and start tweaking it gently towards the middle ground, maybe we could finally get what I think is the ideal situation:

Ease:
Assisted > Semi > 'Manual'
Effectiveness for a weaker player:
Assisted > Semi > 'Manual'
Effectiveness for a medium player:
Semi > Assisted/'Manual'
Effectiveness for a great player:
'Manual' > Semi > Assisted
Freedom:
'Manual' > Semi > Assisted

Without making manual a tad easier, I think manual will always be a super niche setting which will never balanced right, and never fit the above ideal. Of course, full manual could be kept as a super-hardcore setting but, realistically, I'm not sure if 'semi' is ever going to be good enough for some really hardcore players... but then if you want to play online competitively, you can't play it. Clubs especially, on manual, is practically impossible.

I use manual for through balls on Clubs, and long balls. I can occasionally do some absolutely wonderful things - but at the end of the day doing what should be relatively simple short passing is a trial in manual. In many ways I prefer to be doing a long pass with manual than a short one - and that just shouldn't be. I'd suggest that to make manual a little easier for passing a small bit of assistance is given for very short passes.

Sweetpatch imply that there will be a stated 'solution' for the manual problem. This will be a make or break factor. I still have absolutely no gut feeling which way they are going about it.

Gab,

I'm stretched across both here and the EA forums at the mo but I posted a comment about the stamina there. Basically the stamina was not significantly improved, so I showed the stamina levels to the devs at the 90 minute mark or so and they agreed that it was well off the mark. I doubt it will have been fixed for the press build either but from the furrowed brows on their faces I'm pretty sure that will be moving quite high up their priority list.

I hope so. What I want when I first play FIFA 11, is to about the 70th minute mark, find that I've killed my less fit players. I probably play much slower less sprint-intensive football than the average player and I still think I use it too much. I want to actively have to change my playing style to work with an improved system. My slight fear is that maybe the entire way fatigue works right now is flawed, and that however much it's tweaked up and down it will never feel quite right.

Football Manager seems to do something quite different - players with low fatigue are more likely to get injuries, knocks, and to play poorly. Maybe an all round decrease of attributes as the fatigue drops (assuming this doesn't happen already in which case it should be more noticable).

I don't know how this issue has gone unsolved for so long really - do all the testers not use sprint? Maybe they always play against CPU where perhaps sprinting is less useful? There is certainly some disconnect because it's been obvious for... well frankly ad vitam aeternam.

The 5 star skills system should be removed and replaced by maybe a three star basic skills system with the complicated skills checked on or off on a player-by-player basis. Some of the four star skills are way beyond what any player bar the absolute creme-de-la-creme. That would add to the player-personalities hugely if players could only really do moves they do - rather than all skilled players being equally skilled at moves they are the epitome of using, and a move they never use.

Also, in Virtual Pro, it would be nice if things like 5 star skill abilities weren't dished out quite so easily (the same too with the 5 star 'other' foot).

A question I haven't seen answered: Interceptions. How much more prevalent are they (if at all) - and how much more likely are you to get the ball when those interception animations (assuming they remain) occur. In FIFA 10 basically, an interception animation means for a fact you won't get the ball. It will either cannon or miss entirely.

 

[stuartyd]

Re: Fifa 11

See above.

Thanks for taking the time to respond Rom, cheers!

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Manual will be more competitive than currently but it won't be facing assisted players as equals. I'll talk more tomorrow I think as I'm off out now.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Oh, and the point of the pro passing marker is that you can see that you didn't put enough on the pass and learn for next time.

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Maybe it has already been mentioned, but Gary Paterson confirmed that we will have correct player height this time around in cutscenes. As most people probably know, when you score a goal in FIFA everyone is the exact same height in the cutscene. Judging by his answer it sounds like they've done some IK stuff or something to prevent the clipping too, nice.

Gary's own words:

Different sized players cos we wrote the code that would allow them to interact without clipping through each other - check

Edit: Might only be for the cup celebration things... not sure.

 

[gameklip]

Re: Fifa 11

EAUK_Adroit wrote:
Personality+ will be for all players (utilizing a database that evaluates and grades each player’s skill-set over 36 attributes and 57 traits).

:droooooooool

That's going to make manager mode sick.

 

[Shooto]

Re: Fifa 11

What team does this Ping Pong play for, he sounds awesome.

The news from both camps this year is sounding good, and with FIFA clubs receiving some attention it can only be good news. No more 4ft goalies

Where is the information on saving goals to your xbox? What can we do with the saves afterwards etc?

Saving online goals just sounds great. Goal of the season from clubs leagues etc.

 

[stuartyd]

Re: Fifa 11

Rom, sorry I meant to ask

Has player switching been looked at (especially on manual settings) & also do defenders still move towards the ball just as you are selecting them, momentum then kicks in and leaves them on the back foot chasing the attacker?

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Shooto - dunno what the plan is with saving goals to X360, other than that you are asked whether to save to disk or to the servers.

Stuart - I'm 99% sure the player switching was being worked on but we weren't privvy to it yet. I don't recall having significant issues with player switch stutter from the defenders but I'll add it to my list of things to check in the new build.