Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

[winston]

Re: Fifa 11

The problem with aftertouch is that 'aftertouch' isn't realistic.

But what it tries to simulate isn't unrealistic.

Football games are now a million times more sophisticated in terms of how it represents the contact with the foot, but also in how much it needs to look believable for our brains to process it without questioning what is going on.

Perhaps. I think there's scope for manual implementation.

I don't know how manual passing will represent swerve, but it's a bloody hard question to answer - how do you represent such a thing without (a) automating swerve, (b) having to artificially add ball spin after the ball has been kicked, or (c) making the system so hard to use that it isn't practical?

Longer term, I'd like to think they'll be looking at the whole control system. What they have implemented is basically an exact copy of PES controls, the basis of which is more than 10 years old.

We now have things like analogue left and right triggers. I think that gives room for thought about left trigger to shoot/pass/kick with your left foot, right trigger to shoot/pass/kick with your right foot. The fact they're analogue opens the possibility of the velocity you hit the trigger determining how hard you kick the ball. There are other shoulder buttons so your kick can be laced or side-foot.

There's a free analogue stick - thought can be given as to whether it can be used for aftertouch (or beforetouch). That can then allow control of elevation and spin of the kick/shot/pass.

That frees up all the normal kicking buttons for other things (heading, etc).

I know that Swedish chap, Trance_Allstar, who used to frequent these forums a lot, had plenty of good ideas about redesigning the controls.

It was laughable in those games looking back though. I'm happy for it to be automated and agree with parts of what Roman just said.

I don't think anybody was suggesting EA should just copy exactly an implementation from a simplistic 20 year old game.

The long term goal should be for as much as possible to be manual.

 

[nerf]

Re: Fifa 11

It does make you wonder what they've been doing all this time without Personality+. Some of those things are pretty basic necessities, there's not much 'plus' about it. Still, at least we're getting it now and it will surely make a big improvement.

So they've got passing, shooting, tackling, gk attributes... again, what about the tactical side of things? Marking, Positioning, Tactical Awareness and Vision are all attributes that already exist in the database. Are they getting the same treatment?

Also, in the Sweetpatch bullet-point list they call 'touch distance' and 'interceptions' "new attributes". Do they actually mean new database attributes (can you imagine rating touch distance out of 100!?), or just new factors? If touch distance is a new attribute, then what does the Dribbling attribute do? Couldn't it be the same?

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Touch distance = ball control.

The mental attributes were all in there already, as with the existing attributes. I can't speak specifically for positioning or vision, but certainly the point of this whole thing is to overhaul how the stats are used.

Winston - it doesn't matter if the intentions are right. If you kick the ball and then apply swerve afterwards, regardless of how the ball was kicked or the initial spin on the ball, then it doesn't have a hope in hell of making it into a sim. Gary in particular is quite militant about only implementing gameplay changes that make footballing sense and are not counterintuitive to how that particular footballing action works.

I've posted suggestions for twin stick controls before, and I'm sure several others have. I bet even EA have tried it out in the past (they've tried out Natal and Move already), but I think it's too much to ask to fit that in alongside what is already there. It'd need the whole game engine to be built around it. Even then, though, you're trying to map a lot of nuances and complexities to four shoulder buttons.

The only real way to see if such a thing would really catch on would be to try it out in a primitive form via a PSN or XBLA game of some sort.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: Fifa 11

Touch distance = ball control.

The mental attributes were all in there already, as with the existing attributes. I can't speak specifically for positioning or vision, but certainly the point of this whole thing is to overhaul how the stats are used.

Winston - it doesn't matter if the intentions are right. If you kick the ball and then apply swerve afterwards, regardless of how the ball was kicked or the initial spin on the ball, then it doesn't have a hope in hell of making it into a sim. Gary in particular is quite militant about only implementing gameplay changes that make footballing sense and are not counterintuitive to how that particular footballing action works.

Personally I think there is scope for a sort of aftertouch, which would actually be beforetouch. To do a timeline of how I'd like it:

1. Aim Analog Stick
2. Start holding pass button
3. Let go of pass button
4. Roll analog stick to dictate which way you want it to swerve
5. Ball is kicked

At the moment the problem with having it all being contextual is you have no real way of doing outside of the foot or dictating how much curve you want. Curve on a pass is mostly dictated by the way the passer hits it - if it wasn't then it wouldn't just be the best players who could do it - it would happen all the time. Obviously, the period of time you have to do it is quite small but I think it's enough - it would also simulate the fact that the quicker you do the pass the less time you have to apply these kind of things.

I agree that aftertouch is a poor idea as it is fundamentally unrealistic... but at the same time if manual is to stay completely manual it does mean it's constrained in a very important way.

Oh and in FIFA 10, didn't 'positioning' affect the position of a player in a dead-ball situation?

 

[Murkurial]

Re: Fifa 11

I know you probably got very little game time but how did the free ball seem, I find a good 95+ percentage of the time the ball never runs free, it mostly falls to the AI, this goes with tackles missed passes and clearances..

There is always a player there, not to mention your players inability to clear a ball more than 20 yards..

This for me adds to the "whole things on rails" feeling and there are times when every single loose ball goes to the AI...

This kind of sounds like the situation where the ball will be sitting out in open space and whether you move for it or not, your player will lock on to it and make a b-line for the ball.

Do you know if this has been adjusted Rom?

I remember someone, perhaps even you, mention that there should be some sort of imaginary circle (not unlike the tackle circle from the Paterson vid) that the ball must enter for it to effectively "belong" to that player. So that you actually have to run to the ball yourself to get it. I'd imagine that doing something with first and second defender pressure would be necessary to make sure that players can't just hold the button and run straight for the ball.

Hopefully that makes a little sense.

Looks like A LOT of stuff has been worked on. Can't wait to see the culmination of their efforts.

I'm a bit surprised at how much seems to have been addressed as well. Hopefully it doesn't end up being like FIFA 10 and it's broken promises and early praise.

They seem to have worked on a TON of stuff.

Sorry guys but.. now i saw the video by EA for Personality + ... and this is total Rip off PES :X
Just.... look
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I do.

I'm assuming they're not just going to classify players as low or high at any given skill, but will have a full range of skill levels in between.

This will potentially make a big difference in the gameplay.

Don't want to sound like a pessimist but I don't see how the shooting right in from of goal is any different from Ronnie being able to bike it in that position (high skill) and someone like Lucio having to try the low skill move in that same situation. As you said though, they HAVE to have a range of skill levels and animations in between low and high that result in different accuracies and shot types. Otherwise, it doesn't really seem like they've changed anything.

 

[kouroux]

Re: Fifa 11

1. Aim Analog Stick
2. Start holding pass button
3. Let go of pass button
4. Roll analog stick to dictate which way you want it to swerve
5. Ball is kicked

I tried to imagine doing that with my ps3 controller and tbh it's really not easy to do all of that.It would take way too long to do all of that in order to add curve to passes (or shots if your same principle is applied to them).Passes/shots with inside or outside of the foot which will create different type of trajectories do not take that long in real football.

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

I just remember something that bothers me a lot in FIFA... the radar!

romagnoli since you are actually involved in the development of FIFA 11, do you think you can poke Gary about setting an option to NOT fade away the radar? Because as soon as you're low on the screen you can't use it any more. Should be simple for them to add that. Also as a bonus it would be nice if they had the options that PES have, and that is to change the colours of the radar in the options when the game is on. That's not as important as the fade thing to me though.

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: Fifa 11

Speaking of the radar it's not very accurate either. I was always wondering why I would be called offside when in the radar it was a very close call. Well it's because it's not accurate at all! The other day I checked and according to the radar the player I was controlling was still in the area, he was infact 1/3 in half.

 

[winston]

Re: Fifa 11

I just remember something that bothers me a lot in FIFA... the radar!

romagnoli since you are actually involved in the development of FIFA 11, do you think you can poke Gary about setting an option to NOT fade away the radar?

Good point, well remembered.

And get them to record the sound crowds in Spain make when a goal is scored, where they scream "goooooal" rather than "yeeees", then assign that cheer appropriate leagues.

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: Fifa 11

I hope they don't make it too cut and dried on the Low skill High skill player thing, that's going to be hard to pull off well...

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Got some sad news after talking to Gary

The 1 vs 1 lock limit removal does not include multiple player controlled players, at least not at the moment. So in Clubs several people still can't attack the ball at the same time, same with for example 2 vs CPU.

They're going in the right direction though, so hopefully they can manage to implement it in FIFA 12 if it's not in 11.

 

[tobi]

Re: Fifa 11

Romagnoli has the button delay and offside implementation been fixed?

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: Fifa 11

Got some sad news after talking to Gary

The 1 vs 1 lock limit removal does not include multiple player controlled players, at least not at the moment. So in Clubs several people still can't attack the ball at the same time, same with for example 2 vs CPU.

They're going in the right direction though, so hopefully they can manage to implement it in FIFA 12 if it's not in 11.

 

[drekkard]

Re: Fifa 11

Got some sad news after talking to Gary

The 1 vs 1 lock limit removal does not include multiple player controlled players, at least not at the moment. So in Clubs several people still can't attack the ball at the same time, same with for example 2 vs CPU.

They're going in the right direction though, so hopefully they can manage to implement it in FIFA 12 if it's not in 11.

Quite absurd from my point of view...

 

[Gab_]

Re: Fifa 11

Quite absurd from my point of view...

It apparently has to do with their way of calculating the player path, here is a quote from his answer:

To give you some background - calculating a players path to control/pass/shoot the ball is a very expensive calculation so we only allow one player per team. We found a way to increase this for 11 but we need to write more code for pad controlled players.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

Personally I think there is scope for a sort of aftertouch, which would actually be beforetouch. To do a timeline of how I'd like it:

1. Aim Analog Stick
2. Start holding pass button
3. Let go of pass button
4. Roll analog stick to dictate which way you want it to swerve
5. Ball is kicked

At the moment the problem with having it all being contextual is you have no real way of doing outside of the foot or dictating how much curve you want. Curve on a pass is mostly dictated by the way the passer hits it - if it wasn't then it wouldn't just be the best players who could do it - it would happen all the time. Obviously, the period of time you have to do it is quite small but I think it's enough - it would also simulate the fact that the quicker you do the pass the less time you have to apply these kind of things.

I agree that aftertouch is a poor idea as it is fundamentally unrealistic... but at the same time if manual is to stay completely manual it does mean it's constrained in a very important way.

Oh and in FIFA 10, didn't 'positioning' affect the position of a player in a dead-ball situation?

For me, the problem there is that I adjust my aim right up till the ball is played. When I don't do this, the ball often goes where the player was half a second ago, not where he is when I release the ball. It's seldom my first aim that is accurate but my subsequent adjustment up to the last frame. Personally I think pushing back the time that you have to get your accuracy right even further would make the game a lot harder.

So I don't think you could use this system to put curl into the game by default. However you might be able to implement such this idea when you hold L2 - when you deliberately want to hit a curved ball.

I just remember something that bothers me a lot in FIFA... the radar!

romagnoli since you are actually involved in the development of FIFA 11, do you think you can poke Gary about setting an option to NOT fade away the radar? Because as soon as you're low on the screen you can't use it any more. Should be simple for them to add that. Also as a bonus it would be nice if they had the options that PES have, and that is to change the colours of the radar in the options when the game is on. That's not as important as the fade thing to me though.

I did mention this when I talked face to face with Gary. The colour of the radar, the colour of the referee, the keeper kits, the fade-away of the radar etc. Also little things like adding a 1 second delay before being able to take a free kick so you don't press X to skip a free kick and end up passing short when you could have scored. Gary definitely wrote down what I said about the radar colours!

Gary and Aaron were always carrying notepads, eager to jot stuff down, and they asked us to do the same. Not sure how many people did but I certainly had a good few pages of feedback..

I hope they don't make it too cut and dried on the Low skill High skill player thing, that's going to be hard to pull off well...

There will be midpoints, but obviously when making a quick vid like this they need to show good vs shit.

Incidentally I got a response about the reducing of the numbers of players with 5 star skill - it's one of the things they've told the DB guys anyway. I gave the example of Milos Krasic in the Wc2010 game who feels really unique as a fast winger with great dribbling but only 2 skill stars - I don't know if he plays like this in real life but it does already start to give him personality in the WC game.

Got some sad news after talking to Gary

The 1 vs 1 lock limit removal does not include multiple player controlled players, at least not at the moment. So in Clubs several people still can't attack the ball at the same time, same with for example 2 vs CPU.

They're going in the right direction though, so hopefully they can manage to implement it in FIFA 12 if it's not in 11.

:|
That's a bummer. So, ironically, 1v1 ball lock will be removed in 1v1 games?

It does seem odd. Still, you have to think it's something that will be fully sorted for FIFA 12.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Re: Fifa 11

Yeah I think the best way to implement it would be to hold a shoulder button and then press pass and it would deliberately attempt it.

About the "High Skill" Vs "Low Skill" watch with video with Aaron McHardy
YouTube - FIFA 11 Aaron McHardy Intervista ( sub ITA )

He says before it was about having good players and just worse players, but know its about giving each individual his strengths rather than just assigning good and bad players.

 

[drekkard]

Re: Fifa 11

It apparently has to do with their way of calculating the player path, here is a quote from his answer:

Still quite a obscure and poor excuse. If they canhave multiplae players going for the ball in one scenario, they should be able to make it in any other scenario. I doesn't make much sense from a programmer perspective. So it will work sometimes in 1 vs 1 only? Really, really strange... Just like the replay functionality. Itshould have been a must since first game on next-gen, no excuses.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Re: Fifa 11

They haven't ruled it out though, just said they'd need to add further code for it.

 

[Coopz]

Re: Fifa 11

There were a few pictures in the paper today showing Fifa 11 and they looked very realistic

They are probably already in here but i can't be arsed looking

 

[ant0n]

Re: Fifa 11

Yeah I think the best way to implement it would be to hold a shoulder button and then press pass and it would deliberately attempt it.

About the "High Skill" Vs "Low Skill" watch with video with Aaron McHardy
YouTube - FIFA 11 Aaron McHardy Intervista ( sub ITA )

He says before it was about having good players and just worse players, but know its about giving each individual his strengths rather than just assigning good and bad players.

Sounds good but I just hope they have gotten better game testers this time around so that bugs are not overlooked and are consequently patched throughout the cycle.

 

[PuR0sURPo]

Re: Fifa 11

the FIFA11-PC will be next gen or even are just rumors?

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: Fifa 11

PC users are getting a new NG engine, it's been codenamed: "Amiga".

 

[Placebo]

Re: Fifa 11

Maybe if more people ask the same question over and over the wisdom gods will provide the answer........

 

[Scorpio]

Re: Fifa 11

Maybe if more people ask the same question over and over the wisdom gods will provide the answer........

That only works with God of War III.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

http://fifasoccerblog.com/blog/nuggets-of-fifa-11-info-emerge/

Some good stuff in here. Not sure how much of Glen's stuff was meant to be out yet, but hey, it's in the public domain..

Edit: Glen's Gameplay Preview/review is here.

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/...n-cooley-fifa-11-gameplay-preview-review.html

You may recognise the bits he and Spike comment on as something we've discussed recently. I'm refusing to get drawn on this topic as I'm pretty sure NDA's have been stretched to the limit there, but let's just say this area of the game will be much, much, much better.

 

[Scutch]

Re: Fifa 11

http://fifasoccerblog.com/blog/nuggets-of-fifa-11-info-emerge/

Some good stuff in here. Not sure how much of Glen's stuff was meant to be out yet, but hey, it's in the public domain..

Edit: Glen's Gameplay Preview/review is here.

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/...n-cooley-fifa-11-gameplay-preview-review.html

You may recognise the bits he and Spike comment on as something we've discussed recently. I'm refusing to get drawn on this topic as I'm pretty sure NDA's have been stretched to the limit there, but let's just say this area of the game will be much, much, much better.

That's great, Rom. Cheers for those. Very interesting reads.

Are the nets better in this one?

(I jest)

 

[romagnoli]

Re: Fifa 11

The nets are whatever you want them to be!!

 

[Placebo]

Re: Fifa 11

Celebrations and nets do nothing for me, liking the sound of the replay system, just hope replay length and halftime/fulltime highlights is fixed as they're abysmal.

Won't start being remotely excited however until I hear how they're going to make up for the abomination that was 10's manager mode.

 

[pepper63]

Re: Fifa 11

Any news on real time pitch and weather,kits and so on?