Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Cool, so it sounds like both games will be great, with FIFA probably being a slightly better one because of the solid framework that EA has build over the last few years. Though it sounds like I'll have to give PES a try after 2 years of avoiding it.
 
Regarding these impressions:

I don't see what there is to be down about. I never thought I'd see this day:

Secondly, animations in FIFA 11, and player specific ones, are now beyond PES. EA have caught up and surpassed PES in this field this year, with things like first touch and first time passes being a joy in FIFA 11.
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That is a big, BIG, quote imo. It should mean that gameplay will LOOK and FEEL different with many different clubs this year (especially combined with ProPassing). It's going to be very interesting to see all of this in motion next week.

This comment (and subsequent comments made by adam):

His take then was that FIFA 11 this year is ahead overall, while it lacks the realism or satisfaction of the gamplay core of PES - but stressed to point out thats more about opinion than fact.
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..is a bit bitter/sweet. Sure we have a large improvement over Fifa10 with the realism, but knowing PES is still better with the tight possesion play will rankle with the debbie downers. I personally am not too worried. An improvement over FIFA10 is welcome and all I expected really. Can't expect miracles. PES has been good for YEARS in this field and IMPROVED in this area for 2011.

This FIFA is sounding awesome so far imo. From the comments on the touches to the huige factor being persnoality+ (i moaned about individuality on here for AGES last year), i'm f*ckin excited!!!... ahem.

I already know what they need to do for their next game though :lol: (seriously). Develop more intelligent team AI for the CPU and for your own team. Attack and defence. A good attacking team should be INSTANTLY NOTICEABLE. Also the passing in tight spaces will be improved along with more improvements to the "pressure". lol I'm already seeing Fifa12 as being the seminal title in this generation. EA are nearly there from what I can tell.

Back to Fifa11 though, Wednesday seems miles away :lol:
 
It's the fact that -every- preview is positive which makes me not worry at all about the lack of gameplay video. They are either just confident, or there is something huge. It really doesn't matter now

Oh, and it's not Wednesday you're waiting for - the press conference is on tuesday. Wait.

That's tomorrow.
 
Rodelero said:
It's the fact that -every- preview is positive which makes me not worry at all about the lack of gameplay video. They are either just confident, or there is something huge. It really doesn't matter now

Oh, and it's not Wednesday you're waiting for - the press conference is on tuesday. Wait.

That's tomorrow.
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Yeh but i'm even more confident now because all the snips that have leaked about FIFA11 this year have said how good the game is and how much better it is than FIFA10.

Also I'm getting the feeling that EA is very confident that the footage we see will impress us otherwise they'd have hacked together something for when PES was showing all those juicy movies for their fans.

This way, EA get to make a big impression all in one go on... TUESDAY. TOMORROW!! :PIG: :D

I'm really excited about personality+ though now. I just want to know how deep EA went with it. Remember, they have the license. Hope they put it to good use for a change!!
 
So is it just me or have we lost the ability to do a drop kick with the goalie ever since FIFA World Cup 06? Not that it's important, I couldn't help but came to that realization when I booted that game up just for kicks (no pun intended, although I did notice how hard they really tried to replicate the Pro Evo feel until they went about their own way with FIFA 07)...
 
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I'm honestly not overly concerned when it comes to gameplay - the WC game is quite good after all and the additions for 11 sound solid. As someone who primarily plays MM, the only thing I'm worried about is CM.
 
Wouldn't trust some of the comments from the press and others as far as I could throw them, it's the same every year, we have had members off here commenting on the game in front of them and then back tracking on build etc, all this comparison to PES is fairly pointless too, I guess we'll all get to see, this and next week...
 
4.....

@ Rom, Tnx for the info. Good to hear they have added extra heading abilities. As for the impressions, I thought the WC game was pretty decent in close quarters with the correct players (although you do need to use a combination of R2 and L1 (the slow dribble (button to do tricks) and the player stop)). But it could be better and physical defending is still too strong. Also thought player differences were decent aswell, so another round of improvements should make for some decent gameplay, aswell as better defending AI.

CM however.......
 
mfmaxpower said:
Though the discussion may have moved on now, I wanted to respond to the tackling/pressure issue by asking, am I the only one who thinks increasing the pitch size should be a priority? Often I feel like FIFA is a little cramped and could use with some more space to play with. Maybe this is just a side-effect of having gone over to the Dark Side? I seem to remember PES to feel more spacious.
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Pitch size is as it should be, the scale is accurate for an average-sized pro pitch. It's the AI behaviour and overall tempo of the gameplay that makes it feel congested. The AI on both sides of the ball spends most of the time running directly towards each other, rather than into space or position, and typically does so at maximum rather than varied speeds. The human player is encouraged to press frantically, by the way the game is (un)balanced in combination with your average gamer's natural impatience ('I want to play, give me the ball back').
 
nerf said:
Pitch size is as it should be, the scale is accurate for an average-sized pro pitch. It's the AI behaviour and overall tempo of the gameplay that makes it feel congested. The AI on both sides of the ball spends most of the time running directly towards each other, rather than into space or position, and typically does so at maximum rather than varied speeds. The human player is encouraged to press frantically, by the way the game is (un)balanced in combination with your average gamer's natural impatience ('I want to play, give me the ball back').
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I think they should try to lower the acceleration time. I think Gary said it only takes 2 seconds currently to reach top speed, instead of 6 or so in real life. Not sure making it only 2 seconds actually makes the game more "fun", it could be one of the reasons that the games feels so hectic.
 
TikTikTikTikTik said:
Tbh I think the lack of gameplay videos is because there isn't anything to "see". Last year we had the 360 that let everbody analyse all the angles being used ect. I'm pretty sure non of us will actually be able to "see" personalty+ from the usual webvideo of a match being played by people who usually can't play properly anyway. They showed it off well in the green/red stickman ones imo.
The tweaks to lighting and replays or whatever they are doing won't be visible to most (unless maybe placing two videos side-by-side). And even then it will be subtle with the low res vids that get released.

I'm not that bothered about not having a gameplay vid as I'm not expecting to see much difference anyway, it should all be about how it feels this year if they live up to what they are talking about.

What I am really sceptical about though is the MM. To me it looks like they have merged 10's promised amazing new transfer system and "rumour world" into the WC menu's and made a proper scheduling system whilst removing the fluff. However even the WC game f#$ked up in my first campaign creating all kinds of numbered players and then not loading the match, so I'm worried we will have a more basic MM which still contains bugs.

They seem to be missing the point that the atmosphere for MM is only partly created in the menu's, but mostly it's created in dynamic in-game atmosphere's and tactics. Championship deciders should be a ridiculous level of cheering and booing, relegation fodder should be playing 10men defense tactics to try and draw when playing a big team. Derby matches should have the ridiculous high pressure of 10 but with added fatigue and dirtyness. Relegation battles should be dire longball match-ups with very little chances, etc, etc. The atmosphere is created by feeling like you are playing teams that are actually playing for something and not just going through the motions of a single match.

Everything about EA and MM seems to be focused on getting the emails right and sh!t like that, that I would assume, most of us skip past anyway after reading it once. It's nice having a news item saying barca have managed to get to the QF of the CL whilst I'm trying to win the EL (Liverpool) or that we get to see a RVP signature image but I want the atmosphere to be in the matches. Far more so then the menu system. Tbh just having the basics in there would be good enough for me. Just have the correct shedules with day/night and seasonal weather correct, have access to stats from multiple leagues, have a good player development system and have a decent transfer system. To hell with all the "Ibra rumoured to be signing for Citeh" nonsense. I don't really care, as long as I see realistic transfers with other teams it's enough.

Have that and then have the in-game stuff and it would be so much better. I thought the WC did a really good job of showing the different levels of teams and player quality, however they all had the same "goal" of qualifying. It would be great to play a team like Blackpool and see them not give a toss about scoring or attacking but just keeping you away from their goal.
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I remember Ea last year talking about how realistic the transfers would be in MM for Fifa10. First transfer i saw on MM was Benjani signing for Chelsea. Brilliant.
 
mfmaxpower said:
Have to say, these impressions worry me. This in particular: "FIFA 11 this year is ahead overall, while it lacks the realism or satisfaction of the gamplay core of PES."

Basically, that's the status quo of the last few years, which means I won't be getting my wish this year: a more realistic FIFA, a return to form PES, or both.

Though the discussion may have moved on now, I wanted to respond to the tackling/pressure issue by asking, am I the only one who thinks increasing the pitch size should be a priority? Often I feel like FIFA is a little cramped and could use with some more space to play with. Maybe this is just a side-effect of having gone over to the Dark Side? I seem to remember PES to feel more spacious.
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Here lies the problem. Fifa is a good game to play. It's exciting. However, it's not football. The guys down at EA would greatly benefit from having people who 'know' football aiding them. These are the main two problems for me...

Player positioning

Being honest, it's fairly awful. Defenders often take up very strange positions, which in turn allows the opposition forwards to also take up very strange positions.

Size of Pitch/Pace of game/Aggression

This is all the same problem really. The pitch is a good size and is proportionate. What's not proportionate is the aggression of the players, and the speed of the players. I've seen a lot of Ice Hockey comparisons on Fifa forums, and to an extent it's true. It's like EA are aiming at 12 year olds who are too impatient to learn how to enjoy playing without the ball. So rather than find realistic ways to get the opposition to lose possession, EA seem to have just decided to go with an over the top shoulder charge, which can be used at will for 90 minutes and in any situation.

The overall speed of the players in relation to the size of the pitch is also wrong, as is the overall flow of the game. The pace never changes, and it's often as relentless as you want it to be. Football never works like that.

One of EA's biggest problems is the actual gameplay feedback forums. I've been on there, and it's clear as day that 90% of the people on there are kids. Fifa will never be a realistic experience, because if it was, it would lose a lot of it's fan base. A realistic football simulation wouldn't appeal to the MTV generation. Besides, the majority know how to play Fifa the video game, without needing to know how to play football.

It's a shame, because Fifa has a lot of things going for it. The presentation and some of the animations are great. The trouble is, EA can appease their fans by releasing a new gimmick every year, or they can plaster over the basic flaws in the game by throwing in a load more new animations.

It's a shame because Fifa could be a great game if it wanted to be a football simulation. As it stands, it seemingly just wants to be a video game.
 
I don't think you should lose all hope. Just because we've had two really horrendous years doesn't mean that EA fundamentally are opposed to making the right type of game.
 
lol I will be sorely dissappointed if the gameplay trailer is a CGi-fest. The vid needs to be worth the months of confirmed/denied vids online. I hope it's worth it.

The gamefloor vids excite me more than the official trailer though.
 
ono5985 said:
One of EA's biggest problems is the actual gameplay feedback forums. I've been on there, and it's clear as day that 90% of the people on there are kids. Fifa will never be a realistic experience, because if it was, it would lose a lot of it's fan base. A realistic football simulation wouldn't appeal to the MTV generation. Besides, the majority know how to play Fifa the video game, without needing to know how to play football.
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I like your post but I'm not sure I agree with this part. I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, I just have my doubts, especially about the idea that a more realistic football sim would be less appealing to FIFA fans.

Sure, the EA forums are atrocious - posts trend toward the juvenile, meaningless, and at worst malicious. But until EA release a more "realistic" game and see its sales figures drop, I'm hesitant to jump to the conclusion you have. Some of EA's other games, like Madden, Tiger Woods, and MLB, do very well for themselves, yet they are not frenzied action-fests but instead require moments of pause and thought.

If the game is fun, they will play it. I don't have the sales figures in front of me but didn't PES 5 and 6 sell well, when they were at the heyday of realistic football sims? Now combine that with next gen graphics and 360 dribbling etc, and you're telling me the kids won't like it?

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm completely talking out of my butt here, but until it actually happens I'm going to resist the argument that a more realistic FIFA would turn away a significant portion of its fanbase.
 
mfmaxpower said:
Some of EA's other games, like Madden, Tiger Woods, and MLB, do very well for themselves, yet they are not frenzied action-fests but instead require moments of pause and thought.
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Madden's actually taken the FIFA 09 "Game-long highlight reel, high-scoring, touchdown-laden affair" route this year. People are pretty annoyed and I blame Peter Moore for wanting to make everything more "accessible." They've also added a one-button control system to Madden.

If the game is fun, they will play it. I don't have the sales figures in front of me but didn't PES 5 and 6 sell well, when they were at the heyday of realistic football sims? Now combine that with next gen graphics and 360 dribbling etc, and you're telling me the kids won't like it?
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This is what I've been saying. They seem to have been selling alright with FIFA 08 and then suddenly, Moore comes in and the suits decide that the game needs to be faster and even easier to play. If people aren't soccer fans, just like if people aren't American football fans, all of this two-button control junk, isn't going to make them suddenly want to play a video game "sim" of the sport. Simply because it's so easy to play now. They sold millions of copies without these changes. Who told them that this needed to happen? Did they focus test 5 year-olds and grandmas?

To ono5985, people have suggested that they create two separate modes, which I think the devs have shot down a few times. NBA 2k11 this year is doing exactly that though. There's default, casual, and simulation "Game Style" settings. What you choose determines how easy certain moves are. Casual is arcade-style play with sky-high shooting percentages, more highlight reel-worthy dunks, etc, few stoppages in play, end-to-end basketball, and I'd imagine that these difficulty settings will specifically affect the sliders in the game (they have to if shooting percentages are boosted up). Sounds pretty close to essentially making two versions of the game instead of the difficulty just governing how much the CPU cheats.

EA should look into doing something like that. Make the higher difficulty settings adjust the sliders and remove things like passing assists, etc. (if they ever get sliders). And of course make it work online. Call it Arcade and Simulation, or whatever. Maybe guilt a few people into picking Simulation for fear of looking like a newbie and maybe they decide that they like it and wanna learn to play it. If not, stay on Arcade.
 
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Bit deflated tbh, first preview that sounds like it's telling it how it is rather than the usual 'lets wait and see/certainly looks promising' purposely ambiguous previews we usually get.

Sound as if PES has improved, but not enough for a return to form. While FIFA has been marginally improved and not really delivered on their individuality promises. I imagine it'll just be slightly tighter turning circles for better dribblers, and slightly more accurate passes for better passers. Ugh.
 
mfmaxpower said:
I like your post but I'm not sure I agree with this part. I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, I just have my doubts, especially about the idea that a more realistic football sim would be less appealing to FIFA fans.

Sure, the EA forums are atrocious - posts trend toward the juvenile, meaningless, and at worst malicious. But until EA release a more "realistic" game and see its sales figures drop, I'm hesitant to jump to the conclusion you have. Some of EA's other games, like Madden, Tiger Woods, and MLB, do very well for themselves, yet they are not frenzied action-fests but instead require moments of pause and thought.

If the game is fun, they will play it. I don't have the sales figures in front of me but didn't PES 5 and 6 sell well, when they were at the heyday of realistic football sims? Now combine that with next gen graphics and 360 dribbling etc, and you're telling me the kids won't like it?

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm completely talking out of my butt here, but until it actually happens I'm going to resist the argument that a more realistic FIFA would turn away a significant portion of its fanbase.
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You aren't wrong at all. I think a lot of people thanks to 09 and 10 have really lost all hope which is sad. I hope 11 will reignite it, because otherwise it's going to be even worse in 12 months time.

The main thing about the forums, shite though they are (and for anyone who wants a laugh about this listen to the recent FSB podcast - which is full of stuff about the forums), is that we have to get on there and be persuasive. We've suceeded to an extent already but we can do more with better organisation and better strategy.

I know that a lot of us can't stand being on that forum, and I have times on there when I want to crack spines, but, it is the place EA listen to primarily and I really don't think that's going to change in a great hurry. We should try to change that forum from the inside AND complain about it from the outside, not just the latter!

Yes, it's a bit of a shitstorm, and yes at every moment at least half, to three quarters of teh threads on the front page are worthless - and yes, the largest thread on the FIFA 11 NG Impressions forum is a 'Rate the player!' thread, in which people decide to use their lacking football knowledge to rate a player on the basis of their somewhat irrelevant OVR rating.

But having said that, the second biggest thread there is an enormous thread discussing manual and the control system in general (shameless plug) - and those discussions are highly, highly productive. What we need to be able to do is spark discussion like this more often on a wider range of subjects and keep those topics alive - particularly through the all important October, November, December, January period. It will help once hte 'Feedback & Suggestions' forum is put up for FIFA 11, because then we won't have to compete for threadspace with "UEFAs Player of the Year shortlist is a joke"*.

All too often good threads are lost, and whilst they may have good discussion in them they can be buried to page 5 or 6 before you know it - and unless EA saw that thread, and you'll have no idea if they did, that's pretty much it.

It would be great if we could persuade EA to design the forum/moderate the forums in a way which provides more constructive discussion - and frankly the best way of doing that would be to get rid of the piles of useless BS on it at the moment.

*what the fucking hell does that have to do with FIFA?!

Murkurial said:
Maybe guilt a few people into picking Simulation for fear of looking like a newbie and maybe they decide that they like it and wanna learn to play it. If not, stay on Arcade.
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:LOVE:

Definitely something which would help; and further still - the FIWC competition should be simulation based. Whether it's really necessary, I'm not sure. If EA get to a point where they feel they can't really make the moves necessary to make it a sim whilst still keeping the casuals happy, then this is the route.
 
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sry for off topic but it flashed into my mind after Eltonsp said that he wants the demo...
I personally felt that FIFA 10 was rather different to the FIFA 10-Demo than FIFA 10 to 2010 FIFA World Cup
 
I think Rom has already mentioned that sliders should, or could (can't remember), be in for 12. So 3 slider "sets" shouldn't be a big step.

There is hope that they will be able to incorporate quite a large number of settings into a sliders system as they have created a basis now with the non-patch update file. If that would enable them to create a tweaking system that allows players to adjust all kinds of elements between arcade/regular/simulation or a 1-10 setting would be good. It would take a lot of testing to make sure certain settings don't break the game, but at the same time atleast parts that were "broken" could be tweaked.

Just thinking of the potential is getting me very excited for 12.....oh ooooh. :(
 
The danger of sliders, is the same as one of the main issues with the assisted-semi-manual debate - how do you make sure that everyone doesn't play on the arcade settings - as let's be honest - patently everyone will if there is no real reason not to. As long as they put those reasons in from the start by design it should be fine.

My worry is that, even if it was only three sets, that's another load of splits this community is already failing to cope with. The FIFA online community hasn't coped with the split of people wanting to play with a variety of teams, or 5 star teams, the split between slow and normal game speed, the split between assisted and manual...

EA need to take a overall look at those failures and improve on them too.
 
TikTikTikTikTik said:
I think Rom has already mentioned that sliders should, or could (can't remember), be in for 12. So 3 slider "sets" shouldn't be a big step.

There is hope that they will be able to incorporate quite a large number of settings into a sliders system as they have created a basis now with the non-patch update file. If that would enable them to create a tweaking system that allows players to adjust all kinds of elements between arcade/regular/simulation or a 1-10 setting would be good. It would take a lot of testing to make sure certain settings don't break the game, but at the same time atleast parts that were "broken" could be tweaked.

Just thinking of the potential is getting me very excited for 12.....oh ooooh. :(
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The problem with using sliders is they do not settle the issue of what the base gameplay should be like, and considering the growing popularity of online competition, the factory default settings are still the most important.

For someone like me, who primarily has played MM, sliders would be pretty cool, because, obviously, I'd be able to make the game play like I'd want it.

But I think what some of us are arguing is that we want the default settings to look more like what we all here consider optimal, i.e. more realistic football.
 
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