Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

[romagnoli]

YES IT APPLIES TO THE CPU. Always has, always will.

 

[Gab_]

YES IT APPLIES TO THE CPU. Always has, always will.

It's funny all this about the CPU cheating because they are lucky "all the time". I created a Puzzle Quest clone prototype with AI opponent and even though I didn't create any cheating AI, the fucker made all these amazing combos. If I would have let anyone else have a go at it I can bet that they would complain about the AI cheating even though it doesn't exist. The reason I did this little prototype is because people across the internets refused to believe that PQ didn't have cheating AI even though the creator told them several times that it didn't exist and was all about being lucky or not.

Might seem a little off topic, but I think this is the case with the AI in FIFA too. People never notice when they're lucky, only when having bad luck or the CPU being lucky.

 

[kouroux]

That's not the same thing. That's ball control, not the shot blocking animation. One's a deliberately coded action, the other's an unfortunate coincidence of the current, shoddy trapping mechanism.

Yes, I was specifically talking about block animations.I think the principle is very good but hopefully "P+" will affect it too.
Not everyone should be throwing themselves that quickly to block shots

 

[klashman69]

Might seem a little off topic, but I think this is the case with the AI in FIFA too. People never notice when they're lucky, only when having bad luck or the CPU being lucky.

True, this is also what makes people to and big extent think they are really good. So when at times they luckily beat a player 4/5-1 (it happens, i've won some games where i was just plain lucky!) They think they are an expert and can't see how the game is just favoring them every now and again!

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

You're never lucky, you're just really good!

@ Rom, do you think they would be able to add an override into the game to prevent any chesting animations in the area? It happens far too often still. Which game had it as a big problem, 08 or 09? I remember they fixed it for a version but it seems to be creaping back into the game. Playing the WC version Ive had far too many chesting animations (attackers actually jumping up to chest the ball) when I'm trying to header it. How often do players chest the ball in real life anyway?, 1/1000?! 1/500?! Either way it's nowhere near the rate that it's in the game, and it's so low that it would be better to remove it imo. That would hopefully make the arial challenges better aswell as players would either jump for the ball, header it normal of do a high diving header. I get the impression that the chesting animation too often overrides, or has the wrong parameters, when all you want is to player to put his head on it.

 

[romagnoli]

Not for this year there won't be any override. There are a lot more animations though - the issue is that the current system doesn't have the right heading animation for those particular moments where you are chesting the ball. Rather than play an unsuitable animation, the game doesn't perform any animation at all.

FIFA 11 adds a lot more heading animations; you should hopefully find the chesting frequency is cut down sizeably.

 

[Murkurial]

I think if he meant only slide tackles then he would have said slide tackles. I think he means both standing and sliding tackle animations.

If a slower tackle animation makes it easier for the attacker to avoid, then it might make people think twice about launching into tackles without thinking, and I'll take that as a positive. I understand the concern about loss of responsiveness but personally I feel like there's probably a bit of 'wiggle room', in that tackle animations are perhaps already faster than they should be.

But there isn't a standing tackle button, is there? You just hold the B or A button and your player will run into the other guy and then try and steal the ball. There isn't an actual button press used to make your player stick a leg in.

And anyway, if it's either of the two, it's gonna lead to a less responsive game if implemented poorly. Or maybe it increases poor tackles and, if they call fouls right, deter people from doing it. But I just don't see how you can make the standing tackle less responsive in the same way that you can do it to a slide tackle.

It also might be related to player personality, in that maybe higher tackle attributes perform tackle animations faster (as well as over a wider radius)?

That would make sense. Though I wonder why he didn't mention that considering they did make a mention of the tackle radius and reaction times for better defenders in another video. Makes it sound like reactions times are down across the board.

------

Absolutely not. It's something they desperately needed to do. Just reducing the stamina does not, in any way, fix the fact that the defending player was way too clairvoyant in attacking the ball. You could barely left stick dribble past a player at all in FIFA 10 because, even though you took a clever touch to change direction, the defending player who was sprinting at you would have such instantaneous reaction times that he'd respond to your direction change immediately.

That's not really a tackle though is it? Might be arguing semantics a bit but lowering the reaction times to changes in movement (and factoring in weight shifting, foot planting, ball-location, etc.) is what would do that, no?

This is how you making tackling less effective - by making you choose the right moment to go in for the tackle, because sprinting at someone who has the ball well under control means they will have the ability to outmanoeuvre you.

Agreed, but holding B or A and having a player run at the guy, and when he gets close automatically sticking a foot in, isn't exactly the same as tapping X to slide on someone is it? What you're describing doesn't sound like it's got anything to do with tackling but the quote from the EA guy seems to suggest that he's talking about the actual tackle animations.

 

[romagnoli]

Murk, I'll be quick as my battery's dying.

The whole post from Gary is about why pressing - primary or secondary - will be less effective. The slide tackle is not being discussed. Everything here is just talking about holding O and X, or whatever it is on X360.

 

[WILDSTER180774]

Head over to fsb, there are some new FIFA 11 impressions posted. Very interesting and positive.

 

[Placebo]

Anything on career mode?

 

[Rodelero]

Hey guys, just wanted to give you guys some impressions from some of my mates in the press who have both FIFA 11 and PES 2011 code.

I thought I'd post it in here though, as it's more favourable for FIFA 11 right now. He did say, comparisons are maybe unfair as he has same preview code of PES as me (around 70-75%), but around 90% FIFA 11 code. So pretty much what we'll be playing in Cologne.

I won't name names either, as it was said in confidence. But you'll get press previews first week of September - even reviews.

His take then was that FIFA 11 this year is ahead overall, while it lacks the realism or satisfaction of the gamplay core of PES - but stressed to point out thats more about opinion than fact.

For him, stats in passing, and even having the confidence to play in confined spaces is more satisfying in PES, although FIFA 11 has caught up so much in this respect the physical nature of them game has been toned down loads.

Secondly, animations in FIFA 11, and player specific ones, are now beyond PES. EA have caught up and surpassed PES in this field this year, with things like first touch and first time passes being a joy in FIFA 11.

He went onto mention that as a full game (presentation, feel, visual satisfaction, audio, graphics) again FIFA 11 is still way ahead of PES 2011. He used the words solid and reliable. He feels PES 2011 is fantastic in spots, but as a whole suffers from Konami trying new things, where as EA have developed their engine to such a degree it's untouchable. The game is so satisfying, that even the better aspects of PES aren't big enough for him to go back to Konami's game.

The last part is the most interesting, where he states animations now look believable. They're less OTT and from gameplay cam can look like less than last year. They're not less, but the way they're represented makes it feel much more realistic.

His conculsion then, is while PES is better in core play feel of a player, and even one player vs CPU (states one play AI in FIFA 11 still needs work), EA aren't far off on those things. So for him FIFA 11 will rule again, but not just for FIFA fans, but fans across all bases.

Inter
esting

 

[ant0n]

Inter
esting

Not a surprise. We know 11 will be good. Question is how good?

 

[mfmaxpower]

Inter
esting

Have to say, these impressions worry me. This in particular: "FIFA 11 this year is ahead overall, while it lacks the realism or satisfaction of the gamplay core of PES."

Basically, that's the status quo of the last few years, which means I won't be getting my wish this year: a more realistic FIFA, a return to form PES, or both.

Though the discussion may have moved on now, I wanted to respond to the tackling/pressure issue by asking, am I the only one who thinks increasing the pitch size should be a priority? Often I feel like FIFA is a little cramped and could use with some more space to play with. Maybe this is just a side-effect of having gone over to the Dark Side? I seem to remember PES to feel more spacious.

 

[klashman69]

Yes, that is interesting as he says PES 2011 is more realistic but FIFA is more enjoyable.

Depth is the key! It's how good FIFA is seen to be next march, July which will really see how successful the game was since FIFA was incredible for the first day or so.

What's more interesting is that i've just been branded a fifa fanboy

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments=1&v=_gxn8vk_Gzk

I'm just controversial am i

 

[Nick Cave]

We'll still get the usual supspects on both sides posting the "OMG best game ever" for the first week and "I'll never get bored of this", two weeks before there bored of it...

 

[romagnoli]

Have to say, these impressions worry me. This in particular: "FIFA 11 this year is ahead overall, while it lacks the realism or satisfaction of the gamplay core of PES."

Basically, that's the status quo of the last few years, which means I won't be getting my wish this year: a more realistic FIFA, a return to form PES, or both.

The impressions say you'll be getting a more realistic FIFA. Or do you mean more realistic than PES 2011?

Similarly with PES - he says it has improved and is fantastic in certain areas. So it is much closer to being back on form.

I would expect his talk about the passing relating to PES's semi-manual setup. It'd be interesting to see what he thinks of FIFA when using semi assisted passing.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Yes, that is interesting as he says PES 2011 is more realistic but FIFA is more enjoyable.

Depth is the key! It's how good FIFA is seen to be next march, July which will really see how successful the game was since FIFA was incredible for the first day or so.

What's more interesting is that i've just been branded a fifa fanboy

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments=1&v=_gxn8vk_Gzk

I'm just controversial am i

To be honest though, last year's FIFA had me disappointed within a couple weeks. Maybe it was how bad MM was, but I just never could really get into FIFA 10. I know the reviews were through the roof, but for me the overall feel of FIFA regressed from '08.

 

[mfmaxpower]

The impressions say you'll be getting a more realistic FIFA. Or do you mean more realistic than PES 2011?

Similarly with PES - he says it has improved and is fantastic in certain areas. So it is much closer to being back on form.

I would expect his talk about the passing relating to PES's semi-manual setup. It'd be interesting to see what he thinks of FIFA when using semi assisted passing.

Where do the impressions say FIFA's gameplay will be more realistic?

 

[romagnoli]

It doesn't use those specific words but it says that FIFA has caught up and isn't far off PES on the core feel of a player. That's already more realistic. It would be helpful if he elaborated though.

 

[mfmaxpower]

It doesn't use those specific words but it says that FIFA has caught up and isn't far off PES on the core feel of a player. That's already more realistic. It would be helpful if he elaborated though.

Yea, sorry, I'm being a bit of a downer. Maybe I'm being overly protective of my expectations. Feel like I kinda got burned badly last year by EA, as pathetic as that sounds!

 

[steveee]

e. Stamina/Fatigue
Hopefully the video will be released soon but basically, stamina will have a greater effect on how quickly a player will fatigue and fatigue will have a greater effect on a players acceleration and sprint speed (among other things).

If this is true... this will make the game a lot more enjoyable for myself playing against others online and make it more realistic. There should be a penalty of some sort for all the jokers online that don't know how to play football and just hold the sprint button and double press all game with 2nd defender pressing.

Absolutely not. It's something they desperately needed to do. Just reducing the stamina does not, in any way, fix the fact that the defending player was way too clairvoyant in attacking the ball. You could barely left stick dribble past a player at all in FIFA 10 because, even though you took a clever touch to change direction, the defending player who was sprinting at you would have such instantaneous reaction times that he'd respond to your direction change immediately.

Reducing the stamina might make the opposition struggle to get right up on you when holding double press, but would not change the fact that if you did try to take the player on you would struggle to beat them because they'd know what you were doing sooner than you did.

This is how you making tackling less effective - by making you choose the right moment to go in for the tackle, because sprinting at someone who has the ball well under control means they will have the ability to outmanoeuvre you. It's not about making the defender seem sluggish or drunk, but about tweaking how overly accurate the CPU was at reading the movement of the ball to something more human.

I also agree with you on this.. this is one of my problems with FIFA and WC... is it lets less skilled players just hold the sprint button basically on d and run into people getting the ball which is a very arcade like of playing the game which makes it to unrealistic.


I think both of these things if true will make the game so much better...

 

[Fc_Zenit_Fan]

You guys know if they did anything about the guys online that block your goalkeeper from kicking the ball outfield? Also, are we ever actually going to see that stamina video that Gary promised?

 

[Fc_Zenit_Fan]

To be honest though, last year's FIFA had me disappointed within a couple weeks. Maybe it was how bad MM was, but I just never could really get into FIFA 10. I know the reviews were through the roof, but for me the overall feel of FIFA regressed from '08.

Actually FIFA 10, to me, is a great game. Only if I play using fully manual controls. It just feels like real football, and every pass and shot you make feels satisfying. If you havent given manual controls a try, you should. It's fun and makes the game last a lot longer.

 

[Rodelero]

To be honest though, last year's FIFA had me disappointed within a couple weeks. Maybe it was how bad MM was, but I just never could really get into FIFA 10. I know the reviews were through the roof, but for me the overall feel of FIFA regressed from '08.

A couple of weeks ? I think I went on the rampage day two

I think there is definitely truth in the idea that in some ways FIFA regressed from where it had been with '08 - but I think we'll find that when they do get it right, we'll jump way past it. FIFA 08 was in many ways a very constrained game - and it had some awful responsiveness issues. It would have been very interesting to see what FIFA 08 would ahve been like if they just fixed the responsiveness - but I don't think it would be quite the golden rainbows and multicoloured sunsets that people imagine.

The number of things which have been added from 08->10 are enormous - so when it clicks into place (and I know some doubt if it ever will - but it will) - we'll go to a new height.

 

[romagnoli]

I said during these past months that FIFA won't get the nuances of individuality perfect and surpass PES's in one year - just as Konami won't surpass EA's animations in one year. It's a learning curve for both. We all want everything to be bang on or utterly perfect but we all know that it takes a he'l of a lot longer than one or two years to get there. We're at the stage where football games are so complex that getting things implemented and sophisticated enough to not need dramatic technological reworkings every edition is costing more and more in man hours as well as requiring more ability from a design perspective. For instance, the context error system EA are putting in for passes is more than just a cone emanating from the player that changes size - it takes into account the way the ball is moving and adds bias to which way the ball is likely to be mis-hit. Similarly with the ball physics the actual model behind it is future-proofed - it's the numbers that they input manually that aren't perfect.

Next year I'll be going all out to get the pressuring redone, I'll look at the momentum/footplanting, I'll say exactly wha we want to be able to control with the sliders... Most of all I want the AI and the tactics/formations system to become a source of pride for EA, not a cause for complaint/bickering on the forums.

Though we'll see what we think after playing the game for a while...

 

[mfmaxpower]

Actually FIFA 10, to me, is a great game. Only if I play using fully manual controls. It just feels like real football, and every pass and shot you make feels satisfying. If you havent given manual controls a try, you should. It's fun and makes the game last a lot longer.

Yeah, I play mostly on all manual, although when I'm feeling frustrated I'll switch to semi passing, but manual everything else. I think the reason for this, and one of my biggest gripes with the game overall, is again the high pressure by the defense. I feel like the game forces me to play faster than it should. Maybe I'm justing getting old and the reflexes are going!

Also, like I said, MM really sucked donkey ballz last year, and as a result I probably only played FIFA 10 a tenth as much as I played 09 and 08.

 

[klashman69]

To be honest though, last year's FIFA had me disappointed within a couple weeks. Maybe it was how bad MM was, but I just never could really get into FIFA 10. I know the reviews were through the roof, but for me the overall feel of FIFA regressed from '08.

In short They have taken too many of 08's fundamentals out! People have said that i was being too critical from a 30 second video, all i was pointing out was that the running animations of Pepe don't look right and the way he turns is completely wrong!

Since Romi talks to the developers and they use his vast knowledge and input, I need to get it to somehow to really see the good elements of FIFA 08 and hopefully good back to it since it will ironically fix many of our concerns.

 

[mfmaxpower]

The number of things which have been added from 08->10 are enormous - so when it clicks into place (and I know some doubt if it ever will - but it will) - we'll go to a new height.

I know! I can't even imagine going back to no 360 dribbling! That being said, that's why I used the word "feel" when I compared 08, 09, 10. The improvements that have been are unquestionable, but nonetheless, if just feels like something was there in 08 that hasn't been since - makes me think of the "magic" of PES of old we often refer to.

Next year I'll be going all out to get the pressuring redone, I'll look at the momentum/footplanting, I'll say exactly wha we want to be able to control with the sliders... Most of all I want the AI and the tactics/formations system to become a source of pride for EA, not a cause for complaint/bickering on the forums.

Though we'll see what we think after playing the game for a while...

Once again, you're absolutely right, and I'm 100 percent behind you about the AI and tactics/formations.

Quick question though: do we know how Pro Passing will affect heading, if at all?

 

[Fc_Zenit_Fan]

I've read that they will make player comparisons in MM use the hexagon, kinda like in PES. I'm wondering if we just look at the player individually will it also show the hex or not (so we can quickly determine his strength and weaknesses)?

 

[romagnoli]

Adam elaborated:

Hi Adam,

can you elaborate on the bits about realism? Your mate says it's not as realistic - in what ways? Is it that FIFA 11 hasn't progressed in terms of realistic play or that it has improved but PES is still ahead?

Cheers

Rom

Hey Rom,

The only aspect he feels FIFA 11 lags behind PES 2011 is working the ball in tight spaces. Something that we both agreed on over the years is that something PES has got right over FIFA is the way players seems to get across the pitch in smaller concise strides. This is never something accountable for unless it's a situation where you're faced with an opposing player.

So, with FIFA 10 for example, something we both felt was missed in the game was the ability to dribble in-between players in close quarters, without the need for tricks, and avoid challenges. Not beat the man, but maintain possession with a degree of authority and realism - without having to make large direct movements away from the player. The physical nature of the game, and the high percentage in tackling success, meant this wasn't possible to a large degree in both FIFA 10 and WC.

He said FIFA 11 is improved greatly with regard to being able to work the ball in small places with slight players like Iniesta, Robben, Pedro etc, but still behind PES 2011. For me, this aspect is PES 2011's best feature, beyond anything Konami has actually achieved before. Players with high technique and dribble accuracy can work tight spaces, but individually to each other. So players like Xavi/Sneijder can evade pressure well, but totally uniquely to the way players like Iniesta/Robben can. It's deep and varied in PES 2011.

So in that respect, it's not a case of FIFA 11 being at a low level, as it's much improved, but PES 2011 has raised the bar much higher this year in that aspect.

I'm sure you'll get all this once you play both games!