The Retro-PES Corner

I don't really know what is more important than bandages on a player. In a PES 3 ML long campaign save, I signed the not so brilliant ex-Man Yoo player: Kleberson.

Well Klebbers (as Macco and Vornander creatively named him) was such a key DMF strongman, that I gave him a massive head band that looked a bit like a bandage and he played even better then.

:COAT::COAT::COAT:
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: You and the bandages, me and the moustaches. If I assigned moustaches to all of my starting-11 players, we'd win the WEFA Championships every year. I don't do it because I want the opposition to have a chance...
 
I can't believe I've never seen this before. Actual Dynamic lighting in a football game. A PS2 game at that.


It's gotta be up there with Football Kingdom's nets as far as trivial aesthetic infamy except i wonder how many people have even heard of this game let alone seen this feature.

Looked up the actual game, not much say about it gameplay wise other than it's another, alternative small budget football game released in the early 2000's.


I think it's just interesting because similar to the PS1, lot's of devs were at it, trying to cash in on the technology and the popularity of football, but nobody knew how to make anything that was deep and replayable apart from KCEJ.
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
I can't believe I've never seen this before. Actual Dynamic lighting in a football game. A PS2 game at that.


It's gotta be up there with Football Kingdom's nets as far as trivial aesthetic infamy except i wonder how many people have even heard of this game let alone seen this feature.

Looked up the actual game, not much say about it gameplay wise other than it's another, alternative small budget football game released in the early 2000's.


I think it's just interesting because similar to the PS1, lot's of devs were at it, trying to cash in on the technology and the popularity of football, but nobody knew how to make anything that was deep and replayable apart from KCEJ.
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Wow! It's a rather nice surprise to see dynamic lightning here.

Is the gameplay of this soccer america really so bland, anyway? The youtube video doesn't look so bad!
 
I kid you not @MafiaMurderBag, but I saw a guy on r/FIFA complaining about the fact that playing on a certain stadium on a day/afternoon setting was a horrible experience because of the exquisite shadows that are cast. I think it is Veltins Arena, with its quirky rooftop. Of course, graphically the representation of the stadium was superb, there wasn´t anything unrealistic about it. The thing is, for the hyper-competitive eSports crowd, those shadows hinder their performance, they say, and wouldn't it be a tragedy if you lost those precious precious online fake points because of the freaking sunlight?
I wish I were kidding, but I'm not.

 
miguelfcp said:
I kid you not @MafiaMurderBag, but I saw a guy on r/FIFA complaining about the fact that playing on a certain stadium on a day/afternoon setting was a horrible experience because of the exquisite shadows that are cast. I think it is Veltins Arena, with its quirky rooftop. Of course, graphically the representation of the stadium was superb, there wasn´t anything unrealistic about it. The thing is, for the hyper-competitive eSports crowd, those shadows hinder their performance, they say, and wouldn't it be a tragedy if you lost those precious precious online fake points because of the freaking sunlight?
I wish I were kidding, but I'm not.

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You know what; I have seen posts in various MyClub related threads, calling players to block whoever player chooses to play with: sunlight,rain, snow, long grass, anything except for night/fine weather!
These people tend to be also hugely offended, by those who perform celebrations or watch their replays!! And also by replays or cutscenes in-game, from players emotion reactions, substitutions.
Less of them but still enough are annoyed by throw-ins, miss placed passing and fouls!!cause it is not proper to interrupt a 10minutes match and it is boring if it requires battle in midfield and it is not end-to-end ping-pong goalfest. Finally goalfest matches that end 6-5, 7-6 are better for some reason and show more “skillgap” than a 1-0 or 2-1 or “hell-no” a 1-1 or a “god save us “ goalless draw 0-0!!!

True story, no sarcasm, I have read everything above from people who play exclusive MyClub. I haven’t add anything to make fun!
 
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This guys don't want to simulate a football match.. they just want to win their game. Indifferent if it's pes, fifa, overwatch or fortnite. It's sad that we are going towards sterile and meta driven games that feels nothing like proper football. Not even visuals are safe lol.. all matches with the same bright weather and no shadows or they might get disturberd in their quest for the lamest tactic to win.

Sorry for the vent, but when I read stuff like the reddit post above I want to puke!
 
@slamsoze: Your post pretty much sums up the culture of modern football gaming. It reads like a bad joke, but it's all true...

On a brighter note, and to cleanse our palates :D I found this out recently:


It seems to be ISS Pro Evo but with MLS teams.
 
slamsoze said:
You know what; I have seen posts in various MyClub related threads, calling players to block whoever player chooses to play with: sunlight,rain, snow, long grass, anything except for night/fine weather!
These people tend to be also hugely offended, by those who perform celebrations or watch their replays!! And also by replays or cutscenes in-game, from players emotion reactions, substitutions.
Less of them but still enough are annoyed by throw-ins, miss placed passing and fouls!!cause it is not proper to interrupt a 10minutes match and it is boring if it requires battle in midfield and it is not end-to-end ping-pong goalfest. Finally goalfest matches that end 6-5, 7-6 are better for some reason and show more “skillgap” than a 1-0 or 2-1 or “hell-no” a 1-1 or a “god save us “ goalless draw 0-0!!!

True story, no sarcasm, I have read everything above from people who play exclusive MyClub. I haven’t add anything to make fun!
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Again...:PUKE::PUKE::PUKE:
 
Confession: I hate the (admittedly realistic) shadows on the pitch in FIFA. It can really hinder visibility and, subsequently, the quality of gameplay. And I'm a man vs machine Career Mode guy and nothing else.

I'm happy to sacrifice some realism for the benefit of gameplay. At the end of the day you're playing the part of some kind of controlling overlord - how much realism do you need?
 
miguelfcp said:
I kid you not @MafiaMurderBagThe thing is, for the hyper-competitive eSports crowd, those shadows hinder their performance, they say, and wouldn't it be a tragedy if you lost those precious precious online fake points because of the freaking sunlight?
I wish I were kidding, but I'm not.
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It's a shame we no longer seem to have the the option of one football game being a pure simulation and one that is literally a pick and play game. Like Gran Turismo and Forza i guess (Would that be a good analogy? I think Forza is the more casual racing title...) It's weird because both titles want to look as realistic as possible but they're both amalgamations of simulation and arcade which is OK on one hand because you get a balance and they can both be customized offline to suit the users taste (to a degree) but that control is becoming lesser each year as both devs want you to adapt and play a certain way.

PA1 on PES is seemingly no less assisted than PA3, which is now the default, officially recognized and suggested way to play the game across all modes especially online, where they want you to be - Due to play testers and focus groups complaining about the passing settings pre release and the devs would observe the testers, who were mostly kids & pre teens pausing the game at kickoff and switching straight to PA3.

Sometimes you get these problems with any kind of art or media product you release when you try to listen to and please everyone, in the end you get a disjointed and inconsistent product. But sometimes you can't commit with your original artisitic vision, because you're at the mercy of investors and corporations who want to make money at the end of the day so you end up butting heads and compromising. Musicians, Game Developers, Film Directors & Screen Writers, you name it. It's rarely ever 100% the original vision you had. And if it is, then it's not going to make us much money but will be critically acclaimed.

I've said it before but as a creator, you can either have integrity or fame/money but it's very rare to have both

miguelfcp said:
@slamsoze:On a brighter note, and to cleanse our palates :D I found this out recently: It seems to be ISS Pro Evo but with MLS teams.
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That's quite fascinating. But of course Konami were no stranger to releasing localized, franchised versions of their main game. Of course on the PS2 they released several J-League exclusive Winning Eleven games but the MLS is interesting trivially. Once upon a time, Konami officially had an MLS license in the leagues infancy.

mattmid said:
The thing is it's sadly not that new is it - to paraphrase Seabass in the PES5 Guide - Defender's automatically going up for corners was removed because of people complaining that they were getting caught out by quick counter attacks. :BRICK:
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This is why alot of the time on PES 5 & 6 when taking corners, you'd have 3 players in the box versus 5 or 6 defenders. Usually 2 strikers and either a midfielder or a winger. And if one of your strikers was Martins or Owen then well, it's about as good as having to attackers in box for your corner. Ridiculous. You could remedy it with toggling up your attacking bias during corners and people would join up but why should you have to.

gabe.paul.logan said:
playing PES 5 lately. its pain in the ass in the midfield. lot of fouls. cpu cheats. but its very rewarding scoring a goal it has so much variety and error.
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It's a bittersweet game, i've played more of this game over the last month due to my Champions League series than i have in my entire since the year the game was released. It's certainly brought back many childhood memories, it was near close to being the perfect football experience summarised in a football game.

Because scoring is so difficult in this game, it's such a rewarding release when you do. They really tried to convey the feeling of frustration a scrappy game can entail. Trying to build up a rhythm or an attack just to get your ankle clipped and your momentum halted, but i've noticed this is a game where the referee's had different personalities too. Some refs are a lot stricter than others. I had a game last night where i was getting kicked all over the pitch and the ref gave me nothing and then i had another where i won a penalty for a very pathetic knock in the box.

However, coming into this off of WE9:LE and PES 6, you certainly notice the quality of life changes implemented in those 2 games that were absent from PES 5. There's a lot of on rail passing and players are a little more static/rigid on PES 5.

You had a lot of instances where you pass the ball to a player, and they'd stand there frozen waiting for it to meet them and inevitably you'd get intercepted. Usually you'd remedy this with a good old fashioned super cancel, but it seems a little over sensitive to orient your player once you "Wake them up". Keepers range from being absolutely brilliant pulling off unbelievable saves to literally refusing to dive for other strikes which they have a fair reason to try to. No PES game is perfect but apart from these flaws, PES 5 was about as close as you could get to a pure simulation on that engine post PES 3 and pre PS3 era until '11-13.
 
mattmid said:
The thing is it's sadly not that new is it - to paraphrase Seabass in the PES5 Guide - Defender's automatically going up for corners was removed because of people complaining that they were getting caught out by quick counter attacks. :BRICK:
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@mattmid , the number of lightning counter-attack goals I used to score in PES 3 was what made it such a dynamic and unpredictable game. You could have three scoreless draws in an ML campaign and then in the next game score an early goal and then the COM team would push forward and it would be breakaway central for seventy minutes. Electric and just to note the PES ball physics and bonkers ricochet movement are unrivalled in any other game I truly believe.

PS matters mate, Bolton Wanderers look on the edge of obliteration this morning. So things could be much worse for Pompey.
 
@MafiaMurderBag: Glad I'm not alone in this. I don't understand why PES tries to be FIFA when it could be its own thing, other than the fact that Konami wants to get its albeit tiny share of the microtransaction cake. There's a whole untapped market for a true football simulation which was never explored, though PES5 was probably as close as Konami got to "open that door" and dive in.

I either read or saw this in a movie, can't remember :DD but in this environment of mass media consumption, the process behind the production of any kind of media has changed dramatically. You no longer need the yesteryear's typical creative mastermind behind a project, all you need is a team of psychologists and Big Data analysts who'll figure out what sells and, then, how your own project must be built to fit the consumer's preference. No doubt Konami and EA take the same route nowadays. This is why creativity in sports gaming - and high-budget movies and music - is practically gone: they're selling people what people already like, there's absolutely zero risk involved - but a lot of easy money can be made.

What particularly football gaming needs is someone with a big set of balls who tells both the psychologists and the Big Data analysts and the gaming media and the youtubers and the esports players and crowd to eat his goddamn shorts, because he's going to follow his vision anyway and produce something he believes will be revolutionary; not because he wants the money desperately, but because his vision is worth pursuing. I don't believe this kind of person is to be found in either EA nor Konami, it'll have to be an ambitious low-budget outsider stealing the show surely.
 
@miguelfcp , it is actually even more sinister and deliberate miggy. We have all lovingly recounted the good, bad and just plain weird variety of football games in the PlayStation One and Two eras, (roughly 1995 - 2006). What has caused the total destruction of all of Konami's and EA's competition since then ? This is not just marketplace competition, it is a cartel or duopoly at work. EA even went so far as to killing off its own FIFA online to this end.

Tacitus: "And where they make a desert and call it peace".
 
@miguelfcp Exactly. But I don't think it's a modern phenomena by any stretch of the imagination (although with these two games yes). It's some deep set thing in humanity to follow the crowd, to be sheep if you like. He's wearing his baseball cap backwards, that's cool, we'll do that. No it isn't. But we must follow the crowd and not think for ourselves.
bcap.jpgmain-qimg-f753643d1a3c39a71b9a890b01a2ac4d.jpg
Same principle as wearing trousers around their arse looking like they've shit themselves as they try to keep them from falling down when they walk. But, but, it's trendy. I'm cool. Now, like you say, they are tapped into all this.
 
@mattmid: "Spoiler: Twats" :LMAO: You're right, and that is why I believe powerful developers like EA or Konami, if they wanted, could make the likes of Master League or Become a Legend popular/popular again with little effort. It's just they don't feel the need to take a risk given how financially comfortable they got with the UT/myClub platforms. If there's anything the 20th and the 21st century taught us, is that it really is possible to sell anything to the majority of people.

@WhoAteMeDinner: Sadly, it's true. The way football gaming seems to work now is: play FIFA, get tired of it after a few months, then switch to PES, then get tired and go back to FIFA. PES these days is a pressure valve to let of steam from the people who get frustrated with FIFA, which is indubitably the leader of the market. It seems this "deal" is working for both franchises.
 
God how I detest the term "franchises".
When anything is referred to as that, you just know the video game, film or television series is just output from a sausage meat factory.

And the meat in question is probably the balls of all those game developers they handed over to the global corporation's who have made the world so dull and bland.

:R1:R1:R1
 
Eve Online and Blizzard's World of Warcraft mmo subscription and in-game purchases models are mainly to blame for this micro-transaction systen that has not just destroyed gaming as we know it, from RTS games to football games, but wider media too. Fifteen years ago, could anyone imagine paying three or four different television subscription fees each month just to watch television series and films. If you want to watch sport as well, start robbing banks to pay for six or seven fees.

The world is now a massive extortion racket.
 
@WhoAteMeDinner It was bad enough years ago when you used to buy a game and find you had to unlock half of it through achievements (racing games were particularly bad for this, having tracks you had to unlock). I used to hate that, I've just paid for the game and I can't play half of it! Now it's micro transactions, something I've never paid and never will.
 
@mattmid, almost to prove our strong opinions on the state of English football correct. Today Notts County were relegated from the football league. Juventus play with their strip colours for goodness sake. And this evening I see Sky Sports have forced all EFL League One fixtures to kick off at 5:30 in the evening.

Talk about a hostage situation: the Sky Bet EFL broadcast on Sky.
 
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@WhoAteMeDinner Yes, all switched so they could show one live, because of the live tv blackout on saturday afternoon. The actual fans that go are the last concern of tv. Meanwhile we get Sunderland in the play offs and the away leg is on a Saturday night at 7:30. 5 1/2 hours away by car on a clear run, about 7 hours on a coach and no chance of finding trains back here at that time of night.

I have no affinity to Notts County but it's really quite sad that a club that was the oldest professional club has found itself relegated to non-league.
 
slamsoze said:
You know what; I have seen posts in various MyClub related threads, calling players to block whoever player chooses to play with: sunlight,rain, snow, long grass, anything except for night/fine weather!
These people tend to be also hugely offended, by those who perform celebrations or watch their replays!! And also by replays or cutscenes in-game, from players emotion reactions, substitutions.
Less of them but still enough are annoyed by throw-ins, miss placed passing and fouls!!cause it is not proper to interrupt a 10minutes match and it is boring if it requires battle in midfield and it is not end-to-end ping-pong goalfest. Finally goalfest matches that end 6-5, 7-6 are better for some reason and show more “skillgap” than a 1-0 or 2-1 or “hell-no” a 1-1 or a “god save us “ goalless draw 0-0!!!

True story, no sarcasm, I have read everything above from people who play exclusive MyClub. I haven’t add anything to make fun!
Click to expand...

@slamsoze , honestly great post. But I just can't understand the younger generation's (most of them anyway), total fear of any kind of challenge or adversity in games. What the hell will become of these people in the real world ?
 
A day late with my upload as i've not been home all week but i finally finished it. Episode 3!

We are at the business stage of the Group Stage, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Real Madrid & Liverpool are all in trouble and are about to commence their rescue missions to qualify for the last 16!


This is the last group stage game but the knockout stages will be Home & Away. One of the bizarre quirks of the older games is the lack of customisation of tournaments. They didn't introduce Home & Away group stages until PES 6.

The biggest bug bear that still exists to this day is not being able to have a god damned 16 team group stage in the African & South American cups.
 
miguelfcp said:
@jajabinx35: I do, yes, and love those games. Very few people know about this, because by then the PSP PES was behind (then new-gen) PS3 and also PS2 PES, but PSP PES is brilliant. I'm more and more convinced it is better than the PS2 counterparts, despite looking like the exact same game.

That would be great. I found some videos and lost forum threads over the years about PSP PES editing, but many of those sources don't exist anymore.

Does your ISO work also on a PSP? If so, I would gladly test it. :)

@MafiaMurderBag: Thanks man, I'm going to watch your Episode 2 later on and report back :)). The Defaults do exist on PES19, although it really says it all when even you, a PES fan, do not know about it...less alone the younger generations who are forming the core of the PES fanbase. The modern game and the modern ML don't really entice any of us to spend time there, and when you do, you get on your ML save, fire up a game, and on the stadium adboards you see ads for myClub...
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Apologies for the late reply. The iso works on the psp, once it's nearer to the time to compile up the iso for testing, will definitely send a message to you.

Today, managed to win a trophy with old arsenal....but still stuck in D2 league.

Latest update, still retro'ing teams. Latest one I've added in is steau bucaresti team. Had no idea they were a force back in the days.
 

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MafiaMurderBag said:
A day late with my upload as i've not been home all week but i finally finished it. Episode 3!

We are at the business stage of the Group Stage, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Real Madrid & Liverpool are all in trouble and are about to commence their rescue missions to qualify for the last 16!


This is the last group stage game but the knockout stages will be Home & Away. One of the bizarre quirks of the older games is the lack of customisation of tournaments. They didn't introduce Home & Away group stages until PES 6.

The biggest bug bear that still exists to this day is not being able to have a god damned 16 team group stage in the African & South American cups.
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I really like your commentary. Enjoying the videos.
 
Gents, can PSP PES games really be as good as PlayStation Two original versions ? Given it the PS2 game engine ? Maybe the pick up and play nature of the portable game just is a nice pace change ?

Oh and way back, @MafiaMurderBag , Soccer America International looks amazing for that time, as dynamic as PES 3. Only almost too much movement, the camera seems to jerk around each time a player receives a pass. You would be puking up after a couple of hours play for sure.
 
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