The Retro-PES Corner

Part I of "The Defaults" is live, an article I thought you guys might appreciate reading.
Really enjoyed this article. The truth is that the Masterleague defaults are really from a time gone by. I don't think they exist on PES 2019 do they? If they do, then the incentive for the current generation of PES players to use them or even venture into the ML mode is redundant. I too, miss the sense of attachment you'd get to your defaults as you basically watched them grow, improve, get injured, and leave it all on the pitch for you as they were all you had. Then once you had enough money to start buying real & quality players, you still had a sense of obligation, loyalty if you will to those who serviced you when you had no one else. I miss those days too and it was very endearing but with the current games not really grabbing me and the ML being so non-immersive, it's an experience that i may not be able to recreate again in the modern game sadly.

The closest i'd get was when i tried myClub & FuT, You'd have to start of with real shitty players and because i'm not willing to spend real money on fast tracking my way to a decent squad, i'd stick with the crap players and make a go of it. And for a short while, at least on FIFA, it was the closest i'd get to the original defaults experience. You'd figure out the strengths of your low rated players, form a sense of attachment to them when they'd score crucial and you climb out of Division 11. But both FuT & myclub are flawed in the sense a lot of the time you're never fairly drawn against teams with players rated of a similar quality, so you end up getting spanked by someone with Ronaldo's & Neymar's even though your in a low division because their a poor player in general, they've brought them with real money and you just can't compete with their speed and their shot accuracy.

You've started me off on a tangent but FuT & myClub could've been great evolution of an online ML but the Micro transactions and pay to win at all costs philosophy absolutely destroyed any chance of that happening. And we've already discussed the addiction and toxcity that's come with it.

Retro guys i am calling for all of you. I was digging in Youtube for Dreamcast footies, i am searching for some PES or ISS for Dreamcast basically and i found this diamond from 1999. I couldnt find any source in English language about the game, but as i can understand it is some Manager game but you can control some actions? in the cutscenes. The physics it has are something more than amazing, considering it is a 1999 game!!! Has any of you any knowledge on this game? Its name is "J-league pro soccer club o tsukurou"

I recall someone from here has mentioned it again in the past, maybe its english name is Let's make a pro soccer team
Well that's pretty mind-blowing, another fascination entry in the museum of Football gaming. It's so interesting that clearly plenty of resources have been spent on making the animations look this way yet, just seems to wasted on a cut-scene driven RPG style game.

It's something that's always intrigued me and i understand theirs lots of logistical and bureaucratic reasons why, but especially when you have these very special games that are only released in Aisia, WE9: LE for example.. Policenauts from Hideo Kojima is another; Why wouldn't you, as a creator or developer want as many people to play your product, experience your work as possible?

Thanks Gabe!

Anyway Episode 2 of my Champions League is up!

Match Day 1 was defined by frustration, While the likes of Juventus, Arsenal & AC Milan found victories, many of Europe's favourites we're humbled by draws. Can the likes of Barca, Inter & Real Madrid get their campaigns back on track?

 
@jajabinx35: Man, you should consider giving a public masterclass on how to edit PSP PES. Always wanted to do something more profound than just ingame-OF editing, but not only I don't know any better, the web isn't exactly filled with many people explaining the process.

Do you play pes on psp? I'm more than happy to make video tutorials in the future to help out.

I'm likely to need help with testing the iso in the future, if you are interested?
 
@jajabinx35: I do, yes, and love those games. Very few people know about this, because by then the PSP PES was behind (then new-gen) PS3 and also PS2 PES, but PSP PES is brilliant. I'm more and more convinced it is better than the PS2 counterparts, despite looking like the exact same game.

That would be great. I found some videos and lost forum threads over the years about PSP PES editing, but many of those sources don't exist anymore.

Does your ISO work also on a PSP? If so, I would gladly test it. :)

@MafiaMurderBag: Thanks man, I'm going to watch your Episode 2 later on and report back :)). The Defaults do exist on PES19, although it really says it all when even you, a PES fan, do not know about it...less alone the younger generations who are forming the core of the PES fanbase. The modern game and the modern ML don't really entice any of us to spend time there, and when you do, you get on your ML save, fire up a game, and on the stadium adboards you see ads for myClub...
 
I've actually got PES2017, the only one from modern times, and I had no idea the defaults were still there!
 
I've actually got PES2017, the only one from modern times, and I had no idea the defaults were still there!
Yes they are sir :P But they are uninspiring as hell. Their names are completely random in relation to nationality i.e.: An Italian Giorza, a Greek Casteldine etc The worst let down was from 15 to 16, where they changed their names again for no reason as @miguelfcp posted in his blog accurately, and they kept their old "commentary" names i.e.: Giorza used to be Paccini (more italianish) in 15. In 16 his name became Giorza, but the speaker called him Paccini ! (at least in Greek commentary). For years i thought it was a bug, but it was indeed someone's half-baked idea.Same for Q. Arcas aka Gellazca.
As far as i know from pesmaster this group of defaults is the same since PES2013.
In regards to age i think they never age. Basically PES2012 was the last pes that defaults grew up a year.

El Moubarki was always my favourite as he was much OP for a default and he resembled much of a PAOK FC RWB played in Greece during 2010, Anis Bussaidi ,a Tunisian who at his peak was poor man's Dani Alves!!! :P
 
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The defaults and regens are far too good in PES 2019. Arcas, for example, starts at 75 OVR. Three seasons in and he's a Spain international at 88 OVR for my mid-tablers Auxerre. Also the regen of Mathieu appeared in my youth team at 75 OVR.
 
:OT:
Bolton Wanderers are on the brink of financial oblivion. No doubt the latest new owner/chairman coming in will pass the EFL "fit and proper person test".

@mattmid , ever heard of any crook failing this test ?

:FAIL:
 
The defaults and regens are far too good in PES 2019. Arcas, for example, starts at 75 OVR. Three seasons in and he's a Spain international at 88 OVR for my mid-tablers Auxerre. Also the regen of Mathieu appeared in my youth team at 75 OVR.

Overall player ratings are total bollox, how can a game series that used to have forty or fifty different ability stats and special ability stats too be boiled down to one meaningless number ?

:NONO::NONO::NONO:
 
Thought i'd share a couple more PES 2014 clips!

Decent AI from Sanchez to recognize I brought my keeper out and takes a gamble on the lob. I don't recall seeing the AI attempt lobs on any of the recent FOX PES titles, unless i havn't lived?

What's the name for this skill? I couldn't pin it down to anything anywhere... Still a cool finish.

Quite enjoyed this save animation, yes i'm aware there's a little jankiness on the shooting animation and the frames as the keeper begins his dive but it's still a realistic dive. Better than the moon physic dives from '19.

Nice glimpse of the games inertia and sense of weight.
 
@WhoAteMeDinner It would never happen of course, but what it needs, in the absence of sensible owners to run the clubs properly, is a wage cap. These clubs don't even need the money the fans have to pay to go to see these poor over worked loves roll around on the floor. Thing is it all trickles down to the lower leagues as well. The Premier league have a thing now don't they where the maximum away ticket is £20. All well and good but I still had to pay £23 recently as an away fan to go to watch my team at Wycombe in League One. £25 if you count the rip off admin fees. So we're paying more to watch our teams away in League One than in the Premier, how does that work?

What it really needs is for everyone to bin their sky and bt subscriptions and then see how these clubs get on with paying the ridiculous wages they are paying their players with no tv money.

At that level there is no connection with your players any more, not when the 22 people on the pitch are probably earning more per year than the entire paying crowd added together. It's mostly just a bunch of mercenary's pulling on the clubs' shirt and kissing the badge like they give a f*** before they move to the highest bidder and kiss that badge.

While of course if you were a player you're not going to say no, but surely when you're for instance De Gea who's already on 200k a week I think(?) why on earth do you need any more? Isn't 10 million a year income enough? I'd like to think if I was a player at that level I'd be playing for the love of the game when already financially set for life. It just seems there are few like that.

It pains me to say it because surely that's the point of football and for your team but I find myself thinking that I don't want us to get back in the Premier League. Firstly because it's just obscene now and secondly what's the goal for the season, ooh I hope we stay up this year. Repeat ad infinitum. Then I think but what does that mean if we get in the championship and as the season starts, your first thought is can we win the league/get promotion this year, how can I not want that? Then of course once you're in the Championship the messed around kick off times start, Sat lunch time, tea time, Sunday lunch time, Thursday night and so on. I've really enjoyed the time in League One and Two, 90% saturday 3pm kick off's, yes at times the football's been desperate, but it's mostly enjoyable and it's for the most part honest pros giving their all. Hopefully if we ever get back there again they'll have all buggered off to a European Super League by then and we'll have a league that everyone has at least some chance of winning.

Rant over. :)
 
2014 looks so good.. and IA surely does have interesting stuff coded in it..

However I can never bring myself to play it for more than a few friendlies. More than any other thing, I hate it that there is no rain in it. Just this alone gives me an enormous sense of plainless, I can't really point out why.. but that's the thing that screw it the most to me.
 
@WhoAteMeDinner It would never happen of course, but what it needs, in the absence of sensible owners to run the clubs properly, is a wage cap. These clubs don't even need the money the fans have to pay to go to see these poor over worked loves roll around on the floor. Thing is it all trickles down to the lower leagues as well. The Premier league have a thing now don't they where the maximum away ticket is £20. All well and good but I still had to pay £23 recently as an away fan to go to watch my team at Wycombe in League One. £25 if you count the rip off admin fees. So we're paying more to watch our teams away in League One than in the Premier, how does that work?

What it really needs is for everyone to bin their sky and bt subscriptions and then see how these clubs get on with paying the ridiculous wages they are paying their players with no tv money.

At that level there is no connection with your players any more, not when the 22 people on the pitch are probably earning more per year than the entire paying crowd added together. It's mostly just a bunch of mercenary's pulling on the clubs' shirt and kissing the badge like they give a f*** before they move to the highest bidder and kiss that badge.

While of course if you were a player you're not going to say no, but surely when you're for instance De Gea who's already on 200k a week I think(?) why on earth do you need any more? Isn't 10 million a year income enough? I'd like to think if I was a player at that level I'd be playing for the love of the game when already financially set for life. It just seems there are few like that.

It pains me to say it because surely that's the point of football and for your team but I find myself thinking that I don't want us to get back in the Premier League. Firstly because it's just obscene now and secondly what's the goal for the season, ooh I hope we stay up this year. Repeat ad infinitum. Then I think but what does that mean if we get in the championship and as the season starts, your first thought is can we win the league/get promotion this year, how can I not want that? Then of course once you're in the Championship the messed around kick off times start, Sat lunch time, tea time, Sunday lunch time, Thursday night and so on. I've really enjoyed the time in League One and Two, 90% saturday 3pm kick off's, yes at times the football's been desperate, but it's mostly enjoyable and it's for the most part honest pros giving their all. Hopefully if we ever get back there again they'll have all buggered off to a European Super League by then and we'll have a league that everyone has at least some chance of winning.

Rant over. :)

@mattmid ,
One of your best ever matters mate.
The Dinner will give a more lengthy reply rant after the Champions League commercial circus tonight has got me properly....

:BRICK::BRICK:
:BRICK:
 
2014 looks so good.. and IA surely does have interesting stuff coded in it..

However I can never bring myself to play it for more than a few friendlies. More than any other thing, I hate it that there is no rain in it. Just this alone gives me an enormous sense of plainless, I can't really point out why.. but that's the thing that screw it the most to me.
Oh God i completely forgot about the rain. I don't think it returned until PES 2016 am i right?

This goes hand in hand with my argument against those that beg Konami move onto a new engine for the sake of it when, the last 2 times this happened (2008 & 2014) It was progress visually but at the expense of a regression in a lot of features and while i'd love to believe they'd have learnt from mistakes and would never be so unprepared next time, unfortunately it's a company that has a record of releasing stuff unfinished. I think it was 2016 that shipped with outdated squads, Pre-Summer transfers and consumers had to wait months for a squad update.
 
To me, the videos you post @MafiaMurderBag , are very nice to look at of games from PES 2010 onwards. But pretty looking graphics should only ever be an additional feature of any good football game.
No weather effects, rain, hail or snow just seems lazy and unfinished as you say.
 
@mattmid ,
One of your best ever matters mate.
The Dinner will give a more lengthy reply rant after the Champions League commercial circus tonight has got me properly....

:BRICK::BRICK:
:BRICK:

Enjoy ;) I'll be off shortly to see a much more important game (to me anyway!) in person.

Actually I did see Ajax against Madrid and they played some great football, reminiscent of the Ajax of old. But in true modern football they will sadly get their squad torn apart in the summer as the vultures come hunting for all the talent, much like Monaco did 2/3 yrs ago.
 
Enjoy ;) I'll be off shortly to see a much more important game (to me anyway!) in person.

Actually I did see Ajax against Madrid and they played some great football, reminiscent of the Ajax of old. But in true modern football they will sadly get their squad torn apart in the summer as the vultures come hunting for all the talent, much like Monaco did 2/3 yrs ago.

Best of luck tonight mate. :BEER:
 
Oh God i completely forgot about the rain. I don't think it returned until PES 2016 am i right?

This goes hand in hand with my argument against those that beg Konami move onto a new engine for the sake of it when, the last 2 times this happened (2008 & 2014) It was progress visually but at the expense of a regression in a lot of features and while i'd love to believe they'd have learnt from mistakes and would never be so unprepared next time, unfortunately it's a company that has a record of releasing stuff unfinished. I think it was 2016 that shipped with outdated squads, Pre-Summer transfers and consumers had to wait months for a squad update.
Basically the pre-summer squads are a “feature” even today in 2019, difference is they liveUpdate day-one to “current” squads (current=in KONAMi standards). Back at the day ,they were rushing so much the game to come in early September, during some shitty 20years celebrations promotion period and false promises, and IIRC they failed to implement the day one update. Furthermore they left half the other European teams like mine (Panathinaikos) to be added in a DLC late November. Actually a viable ML was unplayable for two months after game release.
The excuse was some shitty MyClub GP which were useless for the people that got tortured (us the ML players ). And I do not mention that they forgot to program the defensive AI. After all these years you can call this incident “A typical breakfast at KONAMi’s”.

PS.: @Madmac79 dude in my ML world it still doesn’t rain. :(
I am Kidding I just play pes15/16/17 in a low-end PC and rain doesn’t show up in low settings :P :P
 
@slamsoze Damn that sucks. But you are still are experiencing slow ball and players sliding.. right?

By the way, I see it maybe sounds a bit silly on my part to give rain all this importance :LOL:, but you have to understand that I always look at football games in general trying to see a kind of narrative/world building implicitly ingrained in it, and so the more varied the weather and the conditions are, the more my simulated "world" in which matches takes place makes sense and seems varied and alive to me. It's also why I still also see the Iss (Kceo) saga of the N64 period, that also had snow and major weather effects as something magical, and the 2009/2011 era of Pes in which there were also afternoon, beautiful games as something equally captivating.

You also have to consider that rain was ALWAYS in the saga from as far as Iss Pro 98, although in that game it looked it was made out of a 32 bit game era (from Iss Pro Evolution/WE 4 it was already way improved, anyway). It truly felt as an insult to me that they simply shrugged it off in 2014 and it gave away a lot of immedesimation in that "world".
 
Whatever happened to bandages (head and legs)? The only thing retro PES games didn't have was stitching on site!

 
@MafiaMurderBag: Once again, your match commentary...:WORSHIP:
What the hell happened to Barcelona? :SHOCK::SHOCK:
Thanks for the support!
The AI was ruthless, that's what happened. It's always been the edict that AI turns it on against human players in any sort of ML or competition mode compared to exhibition. Someone commented on my video asking why i don't just sim AI vs AI instead of picking a side and playing, and i replied that it's just not as entertaining or exciting watching the AI play each other at least on PES 5 & 6. It's like watching a corrupt fixed match where neither team want to score. At least when i play the AI, Not only can i at least make my team play realistic , productive and entertaining football, But the AI seems to develop this sense of pride and actually gives me a fight. The variation in the AI is night and day and you saw the diversity in some of those goals against Barca alone!

@slamsozeYou also have to consider that rain was ALWAYS in the saga from as far as Iss Pro 98, although in that game it looked it was made out of a 32 bit game era (from Iss Pro Evolution/WE 4 it was already way improved, anyway). It truly felt as an insult to me that they simply shrugged it off in 2014 and it gave away a lot of immedesimation in that "world".

And it's another one of those regressions that further cemented in those that transferred to FIFA during this period that EA's game was the more polished and authentic and actually gave you a lot of choice presentation wise. EA had all different types of weather settings, such as dusk, cloudy, sunny, light and heavy rain and of course snow.

Whatever happened to bandages (head and legs)? The only thing retro PES games didn't have was stitching on site!
I think that each year or at least every couple of games, the art team changes personnel, the creative director or producer changes and with that comes different agenda's and priorities. That's why we'd have had bandages in PS2 era and then when they come over to PS3 & XBOX 360, probably have some different artists more skilled with the tech, they don't consider rendering the bandages, probably get an instruction from a team leader that resources won't be spent on them as it's not as important as say, rendering a photographer behind the goal.

What baffles me is how we had crowd diversity in PES 2014, then on the same engine in 2019, the crowd is universally generic.

 
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