The Retro-PES Corner

[WhoAteMeDinner]

It's true the CPU struggle to score on 1-on-1 against the keeper in PES6. It seems like the CPU doesn't know what to do, when the goalkeeper comes out. But this is not related to dribble stats IMO.

@fmicablues7 , I think it really is mate, in the Playstation 2 version. I know you play PC editions only. The gameplay differences between PC and Playstation versions appear to be massive. The best striker or winger I have with good dribble stats can just about manage to turn a little wide of the COM keeper and open up a shooting window but can never go around the goalie and do a tap-in.

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

@WhoAteMeDinner I honestly can't say I've ever noticed that on PES6 about the one-on-one's. But it is many years since I played with the 'vanilla' players. I've even had Amador players scoring one-on-one's against me. Does your keeper have the 1-on-1 ability by any chance, I'm wondering if that's factoring in? Maybe it's another PS difference to PC? I've never played it on PS.


@Walker™ PES3 on the PC? With an emulator do you mean?

@mattmid, definitely a Playstation 2 issue, having looked at the close control of the players on the video you posted. Not a single player I have or played against does that.

 

[miguelfcp]

@WhoAteMeDinner: Yes, those clubs seem to vary in terms of placement on each league according to each re-start of the save. I haven't checked it in detail, but as far as the naked eye can see after a quick glance, the rest of the clubs on the ML world always seem to be organized the same way on every retry. Will have to check it though.

Meanwhile, I lost my Ironman Challenge on the first match of the 2nd fixture, Ascoli 0-1 Inter. Turns out the bookmakers did predict it correctly. I found out that Ascoli was truly one of the worst teams of Serie A, if not the worst, vs an amazing Inter with the likes of Figo, Adriano (yes, THAT Adriano), Crespo, Ibrahimovic, Stankovic...
I tried a 5-4-1 with a diamond midfield and a lone man up front, and while it worked on limiting Inter's offensive potential, it made Ascoli non-threating offensively. A deserved win for Inter means an early Game Over for me.

Restarted the challenge, this time on France's Ligue 1. While I won't be facing any world powerhouses here - probably the best team is Lyon, but still not as good as Inter/Milan - there'll be many balanced encounters often with no favourites for to grab a win.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Been reading a couple of post on page 113. you guys really prefer a football stadium with a running track around it?!
I am very surprised! How come?

I do prefer football stadiums instead of all in one sports arenas/stadiums. England has some nice stadiums. France, Italy and Germany too. I guess all countries feature some pretty cool stadiums.
Fully closed arenas I don’t like too much. Prefer the small, open football stadiums. Craven Cottage or Millerntor anyone?!

 

[mattmid]

@PRO_TOO I'm with you on that, I don't like running track stadiums. Or the new soulless 'bowls'

 

[geeeeee]

Regarding the talk about one on ones, this is what i like so much about PES2008 PS2 version.

In this video i am Leeds v Ipswich (cpu) and Ipswich has 3 one on ones. The first one he tries to chip the keeper but misses, the second one he blasts it but it is saved, the third one he dribbles round the keeper and scores.

Please watch from around the 1:30 mark, all three one on ones are in the first half.


PS @PRO_TOO what are you doing here ?

 

[PRO_TOO]

@mattmid top!!

@geeeeee i was just curious whats up in here! wanted to know why you guys prefer the old games n such!
thats why i asked about the stadiums. i like to know what other players think when going the olde road!

because me, i could never go back! i watched your latest video (leeds vs ipswich) and i just cant stand the dated look. it played so nice when i was on ps2 back in the days (when i had no clou whats coming/when this was the pinacle ( was 20ish))... but to me, so much stuff looks dated. be it the gfx as a whole, the running animations with these little legs moving so fast (is fidget the right word!?)...
guess you guys play it for gameplay reasons first. you may be able to dribble the keeper and they do come of the line... but the rest lacks gameplay wise. or is it not?!
maybe its just a feeling in my guts that prevents me from coming back. pretty sure a test at home could give me an answer. i wish i could have a night with friends, a ps2, pes and some beer. this could be a fun night i guess, having all those good memories come back. but right now: i bet after such a night id still prefer the latest version.
its hard for me to explain. hope you get it.
ps: i am open minded so please dont hammer me!
pps: its the same with other gaming genre! racing games... shooter... i tend to prefer the latest version. dont want to start a discussion war in here!

just my point of view and i'm interested in yours!

 

[cosmo]

Sound in the newer games is not great, doesn't matter that much anyway, and for graphics, its's not that important too I think because of the view while playing, textures etc. are fine (on PC), the "hand-drawn" Animations are neat, some/most trump many of the Animations in the newer titles, they got better with 2014 and later but some stuff just looks and importantly feels awkward, both in a realistic sense and a feedback/gameplay sense.

Then there is controls, nothing beats the easy to learn yet hard to master and intuitive and grounded (in football sense) controls of PS2 era PES, they nailed the relation between understanding the game(sport) and then transition it to a video game, so that the player feels whats going on on the pitch, this relates directly to gameplay depth and therefore replay-ability, this is one of the core pillars of a good PES game, this rule was broken many times starting with PES 2011 imo (08 09 and 10 were classic in that sense imo).

Nother pillar is player individuality (related to point controls above), e. g. 2014 and imo all games past that don't come close to that, one could almost say its not even a PES game, it's just the name.

Then there is the AI, most of the movements and behaviors you still see in the newer games because a) Konami is lazy and b) most of them behaviors just work and are good, but the problem comes with the transition to newer other elements and the implementation, it just works better in the old games because its the whole package there that works as a unit.

Referee in newer games is still bad, this alone makes the old games better _IMO_, very important.
Same with the Keeper AI.

Also the newer games tend to have a weakness with playing styles, the games favor (passively) a certain way of playing or scoring goals, this is rarely the case in the classics, maybe PES 6 is a bad example in that regard.
Then of course all the small features that they removed with time..

Well I could go on..
which points I can understand in such a discussion that one could bring up is stuff like the right stick player switch and for some it can be a huge deal to not play the old games, or the directions, but directions they somehow never implemented well in my opinion, the passing and movement(animations) just dont feel that well wrapped around that 360° stuff, so this point is 50/50 with me.

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

Been reading a couple of post on page 113. you guys really prefer a football stadium with a running track around it?!
I am very surprised! How come?

I do prefer football stadiums instead of all in one sports arenas/stadiums. England has some nice stadiums. France, Italy and Germany too. I guess all countries feature some pretty cool stadiums.
Fully closed arenas I don’t like too much. Prefer the small, open football stadiums. Craven Cottage or Millerntor anyone?!

@PRO_TOO , forum members like me and my main men @rockstrongo and @mattmid like football the way it was in the good old days. Running tracks, very little roofing cover and no corporate boxes. Fans should be allowed to stand and do so in the wind and the rain. Likewise real men on the pitch, a world where a left hook to the jaw of a player does not bring about rolling around and wailing like a baby, but rather a rub of the chin and a shrug.

Real football stadiums, real fans and real players.....bring it all back.

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

@PRO_TOO I'm with you on that, I don't like running track stadiums. Or the new soulless 'bowls'

@mattmid , Stadio Delle Alpi or Juventus Stadium. Do not let Dinner down.

 

[rockstrongo]

@PRO_TOO , forum members like me and my main men @rockstrongo and @mattmid like football the way it was in the good old days. Running tracks, very little roofing cover and no corporate boxes. Fans should be allowed to stand and do so in the wind and the rain. Likewise real men on the pitch, a world where a left hook to the jaw of a player does not bring about rolling around and wailing like a baby, but rather a rub of the chin and a shrug.

Real football stadiums, real fans and real players.....bring it all back.

What he said!
@WhoAteMeDinner always speads the gospel.
New stadiums are shite,Football +Justin Bieber +supercross.
Not to mention hospitality suites,50/50 scarves,sushi,stand up and you'll get ejected,call the ref a cunt and you're season tickets gets revoked (THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!)

Old grounds are lovely,but I prefer the old bowls,use to love shitty old English stadiums as well,but nothing beats a "curva" with 5-10 k noisy fans.
But most are getting tore down or rebuilt.
Any one remember that Anfield use to be noisy,look at it now,or OT,or every prem ground.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Sound in the newer games is not great, doesn't matter that much anyway, and for graphics, its's not that important too I think because of the view while playing, textures etc. are fine (on PC), the "hand-drawn" Animations are neat, some/most trump many of the Animations in the newer titles, they got better with 2014 and later but some stuff just looks and importantly feels awkward, both in a realistic sense and a feedback/gameplay sense.

Then there is controls, nothing beats the easy to learn yet hard to master and intuitive and grounded (in football sense) controls of PS2 era PES, they nailed the relation between understanding the game(sport) and then transition it to a video game, so that the player feels whats going on on the pitch, this relates directly to gameplay depth and therefore replay-ability, this is one of the core pillars of a good PES game, this rule was broken many times starting with PES 2011 imo (08 09 and 10 were classic in that sense imo).

Nother pillar is player individuality (related to point controls above), e. g. 2014 and imo all games past that don't come close to that, one could almost say its not even a PES game, it's just the name.

Then there is the AI, most of the movements and behaviors you still see in the newer games because a) Konami is lazy and b) most of them behaviors just work and are good, but the problem comes with the transition to newer other elements and the implementation, it just works better in the old games because its the whole package there that works as a unit.

Referee in newer games is still bad, this alone makes the old games better _IMO_, very important.
Same with the Keeper AI.

Also the newer games tend to have a weakness with playing styles, the games favor (passively) a certain way of playing or scoring goals, this is rarely the case in the classics, maybe PES 6 is a bad example in that regard.
Then of course all the small features that they removed with time..

Well I could go on..
which points I can understand in such a discussion that one could bring up is stuff like the right stick player switch and for some it can be a huge deal to not play the old games, or the directions, but directions they somehow never implemented well in my opinion, the passing and movement(animations) just dont feel that well wrapped around that 360° stuff, so this point is 50/50 with me.

first: thx for replying and replying so well!
oh boy... when you put all those points right in my face i begin to think (about it even more)!
valid points i have to say, as far as i remember the old days.

let me just get my point of view across to you for some of what you said.
the sound: how i loved to import chants wich made the whole experience even more detailed and immerse! guess you are kinda "wrong" here, or its not as important to you. sounds does make a huge impact, atmosphere wise! the newer games lack that a bit and i kinda forgot about it. the other game made me realize what i was missing (19 that is).

oh man! you really bring back some memories that was hidden in the back of my brain! that learning curve!!!!
i spent hours, days and weeks telling people in the forums that there is something like a learning curve. some did not believe me! you might be right here... i had to learn the "master controls" and even basic stuff felt like schooling!
nowadays i just play... sure i have to learn stuff but you might have a point here.

i still feel differences between players... but yeah... you might be right here too, that it was more pronounced back then.
watching that Leeds vs. Ipswich video looked very arcade to me, even when player stats could be felt more with a gamepad in hands back then. hm... as i said, i wish i could play that olde ps2 PES once more to see what the nearly 40 year old me feels when playing.

keeper and refs... yeah... oh boy... you have me there.

so you think the older games were more free and the newer ones "guide" you to play some certain way!?

so after replying to you and having a lot of thoughts coming to my mind... guess im down to admit the games back then had more depth. these little things you did not mention at the end of your post, i feel i know what you mean! i miss them too! neither game has them (implemented well) right now!

for what its worth, i really like to thank you taking me back memorie lane! good points you brought up.
in the end: i am trying to find someone with a ps2 and PES in my circle of friends. besides the good conversation, thats what you did to me!

 

[PRO_TOO]

@PRO_TOO , forum members like me and my main men @rockstrongo and @mattmid like football the way it was in the good old days. Running tracks, very little roofing cover and no corporate boxes. Fans should be allowed to stand and do so in the wind and the rain. Likewise real men on the pitch, a world where a left hook to the jaw of a player does not bring about rolling around and wailing like a baby, but rather a rub of the chin and a shrug.

Real football stadiums, real fans and real players.....bring it all back.

i agree to the fullest! but i don't like running tracks!
good old days of football... i am all the way with you!!
when i help out coaching my local team, i stand! 90 minutes at the sideline, walking up and down, screaming stuff!
when i have the chance to choose a seat or standing ranks in a stadium... i stand!
i don't know its called "the Neymar" but yeah, i don't like those rolling and moaning stuff these days. every contact is an invitation to fall down. sad times.
i don't need that cantona style all the time, but something in the middle!
guess im like minded!

 

[PRO_TOO]

What he said!
@WhoAteMeDinner always speads the gospel.
New stadiums are shite,Football +Justin Bieber +supercross.
Not to mention hospitality suites,50/50 scarves,sushi,stand up and you'll get ejected,call the ref a cunt and you're season tickets gets revoked (THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!)

Old grounds are lovely,but I prefer the old bowls,use to love shitty old English stadiums as well,but nothing beats a "curva" with 5-10 k noisy fans.
But most are getting tore down or rebuilt.
Any one remember that Anfield use to be noisy,look at it now,or OT,or every prem ground.

haha... good point! 50/50 scarfs! WTF! who invented that shXX!?

one day... and thats one of my football dreams... ill be at anfield! want to sing that song, goosebumps and tears and everything...!!!

 

[rockstrongo]

haha... good point! 50/50 scarfs! WTF! who invented that shXX!?

one day... and thats one of my football dreams... ill be at anfield! want to sing that song, goosebumps and tears and everything...!!!

Been there,a long time ago,use to be a fun place.
Ha ha 50/50 scarves are so hilarious
I'll honestly take any of your grounds (Germany) before Anfield
Maybe FC Köln vs Borussia Mönchengladbach or Schalke v BVB.
You have a great deal of good grounds in your backyard mate

 

[cosmo]

i still feel differences between players... even when player stats could be felt more with a gamepad in hands back then.

one looks more real, the other plays more real

so you think the older games were more free and the newer ones "guide" you to play some certain way!?

the new games are more free, you can do more and in more ways, but the outcome varies a lot on what a) makes fun and b) also can be played successfully
old games you can do less, but what you can do has more impact and you can succeed with almost anything you can do

in a sense the newer games give you a false fredoom, the old illusion of free choice, its all a LIE!!

@ tracks
i do like the tracks, it has that old feel to it, it gives me a broad and epic touch
bengalos banging, chants with that slight distant echoey feel to them, thats the best

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

What he said!
@WhoAteMeDinner always speads the gospel.
New stadiums are shite,Football +Justin Bieber +supercross.
Not to mention hospitality suites,50/50 scarves,sushi,stand up and you'll get ejected,call the ref a cunt and you're season tickets gets revoked (THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!)

Old grounds are lovely,but I prefer the old bowls,use to love shitty old English stadiums as well,but nothing beats a "curva" with 5-10 k noisy fans.
But most are getting tore down or rebuilt.
Any one remember that Anfield use to be noisy,look at it now,or OT,or every prem ground.

@rockstrongo , how is your Playstation 2 PES rediscovery going my friend ? What game version are you playing a master league in ?

The word is spreading, the gospel of PES on Playstation 2 is the true path to enlightenment.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Been there,a long time ago,use to be a fun place.
Ha ha 50/50 scarves are so hilarious
I'll honestly take any of your grounds (Germany) before Anfield
Maybe FC Köln vs Borussia Mönchengladbach or Schalke v BVB.
You have a great deal of good grounds in your backyard mate

i know! there are some lovely spots around here.
why don't you like Anfield!? the stadium it self...? because the atmosphere can't be it!
in germany i need to go to the Westfalen stadium one day! want to see "the Süd" for real, even if i'm a Bayern fan!
I've been to the waldstadion in Frankfurt, Leverkusens little jewelry box, and hamburgs Volkspark! Berlin is missing and dortmund too. thats just 2 places i want to see in Germany.
last year on vacation in brazil i had a stadium tour at the maracana! my heart was beating so hard! my travel group could not understand when i got wet eyes!
i might upload a video were you can see me goalkeeping at maracana!
yes yes.. i did that!!

 

[cosmo]

frankfurt has good fan atmo and stuttgart, also nurnberg. if you can go there

mainly referring to ultras and choreos etc.

 

[PRO_TOO]

one looks more real, the other plays more real



the new games are more free, you can do more and in more ways, but the outcome varies a lot on what a) makes fun and b) also can be played successfully
old games you can do less, but what you can do has more impact and you can succeed with almost anything you can do

in a sense the newer games give you a false fredoom, the old illusion of free choice, its all a LIE!!

@ tracks
i do like the tracks, it has that old feel to it, it gives me a broad and epic touch
bengalos banging, chants with that slight distant echoey feel to them, thats the best

ah i think i get it! that on the rails stuff, that was more pronounced back then, made you excited when you got something spectacular done off the rails. kinda like that! i get it. i hope so!
in the newer pes i feel the shoots, and we talked about it enough, are not varied enough. we had that better before.
i repeat myself. i guess a good gaming session for a few hours with the old pes could show what you mean and maybe im just to long gone to appreciate it more (the old games).

 

[cosmo]

well i would not touch em on console tbh xD

im downsampling them from 8k to my native 4k monitor here on pc, it looks gorgeous
i would not bother otherwise i think, no console man here :p

 

[rockstrongo]

i know! there are some lovely spots around here.
why don't you like Anfield!? the stadium it self...? because the atmosphere can't be it!
in germany i need to go to the Westfalen stadium one day! want to see "the Süd" for real, even if i'm a Bayern fan!
I've been to the waldstadion in Frankfurt, Leverkusens little jewelry box, and hamburgs Volkspark! Berlin is missing and dortmund too. thats just 2 places i want to see in Germany.
last year on vacation in brazil i had a stadium tour at the maracana! my heart was beating so hard! my travel group could not understand when i got wet eyes!
i might upload a video were you can see me goalkeeping at maracana!
yes yes.. i did that!!

Wow,goalkeeping at the mighty maracana.
It's not that I don't like Anfield,Ive been there when it use to be a factor for the home team, nowadays it's gone downhill,I just think the atmosphere is gone,it's not the fans fault,not Liverpool's (well maybe a great deal) but the league.
Wish that a big club like Liverpool could acctually put some value in their praise for their supporters.
Rebuild The Kop into a standing section again, especially since the police and government lied about the "horrors of standing up" and pretty much blamed Liverpool and their supporters +plus standing up as the factor behind Hillsborough.

 

[rockstrongo]

@rockstrongo , how is your Playstation 2 PES rediscovery going my friend ? What game version are you playing a master league in ?

The word is spreading, the gospel of PES on Playstation 2 is the true path to enlightenment.

Only Pes 6 ATM mate,which in my opinion is a mixed feeling,like the good stuff,but to me it's linked to much to my old Pes 6 days (20-25 seasons on it,so I'm not really biten yet.
Gonna give Pes 3/5 a spin
Not been playing much football games lately.
Banging Red dead and racing games.
I'll get the itch again when I'm tired of gunfights

 

[rockstrongo]

frankfurt has good fan atmo and stuttgart, also nurnberg. if you can go there

mainly referring to ultras and choreos etc.

One of my favourites use to be (only one visit in the 90s) Kaiserslautern and Fritz Walter Stadion,a really noisy home end there

 

[geeeeee]

@PRO_TOO being honest it has taken me about 13 years to finally find a new footy game that i am enjoying so much and as you would have seen from my posts in the FIFA thread it is the new FIFA.

But prior to this I have been so disappointed with the new games.

This has been because of a combination of a few things over the years. I will list them to simplify it.
Regarding PES...

1. The bad transition from PS2 to PS3. Even though i quite liked 2009 on PS3.
2. The lack of fouls compared to PES5 has always annoyed me.
3. Trying to get used to the stick rather than using the D-pad.
4. The difficulty in editng the games compared to PS2.
5. The lack of variety in shooting, Human and CPU.
5b. Overpowered shooting, feeling souless.
6. Stats not being as effective.

Regarding FIFA...

1. I have always struggled to get into FIFA and I could never really put my finger on it.

But this year I have loved FIFA i have to admit.

The reasons i still play retro PES.

1. My brother and me still play huge competition’s together using all the teams and it takes about 3 years to complete because we only meet up once a month. We are so closely rated. In one competition at the end we worked it out that I had won only 2 games more than him out of over 100 games.

2. My brother is older than me and could never get on with the newer ones. So I have to keep playing the older ones with him.

3. The feeling when scoring is so much better than the new PES’ (not including new FIFA now though)

4. The guys that started this thread with the new challenges

5. The guys that have started AMADOR.

So my footy fix now is PES2008 PS2 version and FIFA19 PS4 version.

 

[cosmo]

oh thats lovely with your brother, best thing to do in such games

 

[ganea]

The best transfer engine is surely in PES3/WE7I. There are a lot of transfers from the CPU teams every transfer window. And i think the option "Level of the players acquired" prevent some stupid deals from the CPU.
I will repeat it until the end of my life, PES3 is the game to play as far as the ML is concerned.

which settings i need for realistic tranfers in ml ? transfer frequency ,level of acquired players ,acqusition difficulty , all in maximal stars?

 

[mattmid]

@mattmid , Stadio Delle Alpi or Juventus Stadium. Do not let Dinner down.

Well, maybe a couple then but I'm thinking of some of those old Eastern European one's where you must have needed a pair of binoculars to see the pitch. I like the old stadiums that are right on the pitch.


50/50 scarves are a joke.


Everything that's wrong with modern football can be summed up in one simple photo from last season

Spoiler: No. Just no.

The even better part, he'd just missed two goals right after half time as well.

 

[PRO_TOO]

@PRO_TOO being honest it has taken me about 13 years to finally find a new footy game that i am enjoying so much and as you would have seen from my posts in the FIFA thread it is the new FIFA.

But prior to this I have been so disappointed with the new games.

This has been because of a combination of a few things over the years. I will list them to simplify it.
Regarding PES...

1. The bad transition from PS2 to PS3. Even though i quite liked 2009 on PS3.
2. The lack of fouls compared to PES5 has always annoyed me.
3. Trying to get used to the stick rather than using the D-pad.
4. The difficulty in editng the games compared to PS2.
5. The lack of variety in shooting, Human and CPU.
5b. Overpowered shooting, feeling souless.
6. Stats not being as effective.

Regarding FIFA...

1. I have always struggled to get into FIFA and I could never really put my finger on it.

But this year I have loved FIFA i have to admit.

The reasons i still play retro PES.

1. My brother and me still play huge competition’s together using all the teams and it takes about 3 years to complete because we only meet up once a month. We are so closely rated. In one competition at the end we worked it out that I had won only 2 games more than him out of over 100 games.

2. My brother is older than me and could never get on with the newer ones. So I have to keep playing the older ones with him.

3. The feeling when scoring is so much better than the new PES’ (not including new FIFA now though)

4. The guys that started this thread with the new challenges

5. The guys that have started AMADOR.

So my footy fix now is PES2008 PS2 version and FIFA19 PS4 version.

oh what a lovely heartwarming writing! this was the perfect read for me to go to bed calmly now!

edit: have to add something. you do speak out of my mind, geeeeee! some other users do too! thats why i keep hammering the... ,lets call it "the conference", topic!
we like minded people need to meet some day in person!! middle of Europe (sorry outer Europe folks if its to far), 1 weekend, a hotel, several rooms, one lobby, 1 ps2, 1 ps4, 2 4k HDR screens, some PES games (you can bring your fifa (closed box)), spare cash for fun! whole weekend should not cost more than 300 bucks a person (depending on flight prices, but its cheap these days)!
send me a private message, create me a thread, put it in your sig... whatever! this is due and needs to happen!
#ONEEVOFAM

edit2: geeeeee liked it before i invited everyone!

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

Well, maybe a couple then but I'm thinking of some of those old Eastern European one's where you must have needed a pair of binoculars to see the pitch. I like the old stadiums that are right on the pitch.


50/50 scarves are a joke.


Everything that's wrong with modern football can be summed up in one simple photo from last season

Spoiler: No. Just no.

View attachment 7314

The even better part, he'd just missed two goals right after half time as well.

WTF are they watching with that popcorn ? A Rom Com. Premier League my ass......