PES/WE 2012 Demo Thread

oh dear was hoping the player switching had been fixed all i want is to select the player nearest to the ball. as pes 2011 kept repeatedly picking out the wrong player.
also was hoping the ai had improved enough to be able to recognise where the player under cpu control would know where he was in relation to the ball and not runaway from it when it is next to him. so the above post fills me with dread.
 
Ern Dog said:
I would like to believe him but i cant, really hope so though.
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Adam_Bhatti Adam Bhatti
Right, an hour in. Not pleased with 2 things. Passing. Too much assistance on 2 bar. And keepers. Shooting better, but keepers not improved.


Adam_Bhatti Adam Bhatti
OK, I've contacted Konami already about the passing assistance. Very concerned.
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.
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnn......

I've just played my first game of the WE 12 Demo. Initial impression, not very good at all. What's happened to the individuality ? It felt non-existent, it actually felt alot like how I remember Fifa. It never felt any real disparity between any of the players. This was always my concern before I'd played the game, based on what people had said. I'm usually in the minority and all the positive praise from alot of people had me a little worried that it may not be to my particular liking. The passing also lacks conviction, it doesnt feel very free and loose at all, it just doesnt feel right. Shooting was ok, it lacked zip but I did pull off some decent strikes adhering to the fundamentals. The ref was excellent, and the physics seem alot better. The Active A.I. was good but made it a little too easy option wise, I tried the Right-Stick Trigger and it worked well, but I'm not sure I'm buying into the philosophy, it feels a lot less organic because of it.

It's silly to judge based on one game, but I wanted to get my thoughts down immediately to see how they differ after longer play-testing. I can totally see how people are getting the 'Fifa Feel' and also the PES 6 comparisions. Which is exactly the opposite to what I want.

Hopefully the UK PES 12 Demo will be available soon so I can have play around with everything, it's hard to navigate on the WE version. Feeling very disgruntled, hopefully I will do a huge 360' after proper play-testing, but my gut feeling right now is saying to the contrary. It feels like a bit of a sell-out, God I hope I'm so wrong about that.
 
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Keepers are utterly shocking at times. Really slow, crawling shots from 25 yards and the keeper just stands still, then drops to his side and puts his palm on the ball but can't even deflect it away properly. Very, very poor sometimes.
 
Also finding a lot of times when I'd expect the striker to make a run beyond the defence but instead they walk towards me asking for the ball. I know you can trigger runs but I was hoping to see more of these diagonal runs from your teammates into space, not always coming back for the pass.

In fact I'm not sure I've seen any of those runs into space that the promo videos were showing off.
 
There is a problem with clearing or trapping the ball off the air in this build. The game forces your player to run to where the ball lands instead of heading the ball out of the air.

Also, I remember people saying how the player would slow down getting on a through pass or loose ball, and it is happening in this demo. When you are chasing the ball, the player speed is definitely slower than usual. Makes the game feel very unnatural.

Has anyone figured out what the direction pad does? I switched my keys so player movement is with the right stick, that changes the direction pad to strategy settings. Nothing happens, however, when i press left or up. Down makes the direction pad appear on the screen and pressing right cycles through the different game plans just as if you hold select and cycle with circle.

How do you change attack level? I can't seem to do it like how it was done in 2011. Holding select and pressing R1 or R2 does nothing.
 
DagsJT said:
Keepers are utterly shocking at times. Really slow, crawling shots from 25 yards and the keeper just stands still, then drops to his side and puts his palm on the ball but can't even deflect it away properly. Very, very poor sometimes.
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If I'm not mistaken the keepers were shit in last years demo/beta weren't they? They were bearable in the full game though.

@ Wabak +1
 
I didnt think much of it after the first couple of games either jimmy, began to warm to it a bit more by the fith. I totally agree with having too many options because of the ai, i was able to pass around the opponents box for quite a while. I think the cpu needs to mark up a bit better to stop this?
 
Robo1979 said:
If I'm not mistaken the keepers were shit in last years demo/beta weren't they? They were bearable in the full game though.

@ Wabak +1
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Yep, I think they were. Jon Murphy has also said that the keepers have been improved so looking forward to the second demo already now :LOL:
 
About the Passing Assistance in the demo:

Adam_Bhatti Adam Bhatti
KAPOW! Happy again. Just like that. Passing assistance is dodgy in demo,but more than satisfied it will be perfect in final code :) #PES2012

Adam_Bhatti Adam Bhatti
Helps having a good relationship with the folks who make the game. All concerns quickly answered. Gimme final code already! #PES2012

Xaor Toby Ross
@Adam_Bhatti Word from Konami or faith? :)


Adam_Bhatti Adam Bhatti
@
@Xaor yeh, email back confirming some tweakery. No explanation why, but final code should be like preview
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DagsJT said:
Yep, I think they were. Jon Murphy has also said that the keepers have been improved so looking forward to the second demo already now :LOL:
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I was a bit shocked to be honest when I found out the demo was being released this far in advance to the games official release.

Judging by the comments on here maybe Konami should've waited a week or two before release and given us the near complete version.
 
I think some are judging it a little too harshly, as it is still a work in progress. when this baby is tweaked it will be superb.
 
I was really really looking forward to enjoying the demo this year, but after a couple of games, I don't think I have ever felt so disappointed with a new PES.

Granted this isn't the final code, but demos in the past made me felt optimistic about the full game while this demo left a very bad taste.

I tested out the manual passing, and it's clear that unless you use non manual passes, you can not do some of the longer through balls that's crucial for bringing full backs up or getting through on the wings. Long distance manual passes are simply too slow compared to the CPU assisted ones.

What happened to slide tackles? It is so unresponsive that I think reaction interception is a thing of the past.

I'm sure shooting and a few other things will be tweaked for the final game, but I really do not think the more complex part of the game will see any drastic change.

Hopefully second demo will prove me wrong.
 
Will the second demo definitely but a later code? From what i read it just sounded like it will have different teams, although i guess there would be no reason to have 2 demos if that was the case.

I like what they have done to slide tackles, there were ridiculously effective in 2011.
 
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My Thoughts

It's a mixed bag really.

They've obviously improved it from PES11, which was an improvement from PES10, but there are still some niggles there and it baffles me as to why they haven't been fixed.


Ball Physics

I quite enjoy the floaty feeling if i'm honest. I find it quite realistic. I've found long ranging shooting to be pretty good with certain players, not so good with other players. For example, i twice cut inside onto Ganso's left foot and unleashed 25 yarders. One smacked the bar, and the other one was parried wide by the keeper. Both looked quite good. I also scored a 25 yarder with Elano with the last kick of the game, which gave me a 2-1 win. On the other hand, i had a free shot with Zambrotta, coming towards the edge of the area, slightly off to the right, and he shanked it wide, by a mile. I like this.

The problem i actually have with the ball physics is that when dribbling, the ball moves, and then stops dead instantly, before it's touched again, and then this process repeates itself. It looks very odd, and it simply defies the laws of physics.

Sometimes passes travel too slowly, regardless of how fired up the power gauge is. Again this can be annoying, but this could be attribute related, so i'll play around a little more before i moan too much. A lot of the time passes seem to toe-poked aswell, rather than side footed. Sometimes it looks great because it fits the situation. Other-times it looks clumsy. Passes have a lot more of an arc to them now, which i like. I didn't notice much difference between the different pass-assist levels.



Keepers

Huge problem. I know Konami know about this, and everyone seems to think the problem will be fixed in time for the real game...

However, i don't feel this to be the case. The main problem for me lies with the actual animations. Goalkeeping animations are very important because when done correctly, they can make a goal or a save look jaw-dropping. When done incorrectly, they can take away the pleasure of scoring a goal....and let's face it, this should be the most fun and important aspect of the game.

Goalkeepers should not, i repeat should not, land on their bellies when they dive.

Goalkeepers should not have trouble saving shots which are literally an inch away from their bodies, bang in the centre of the goal.

Goalkeepers should look at the ball when trying to save a shot. Sometimes they will make a full stretch attempt at saving a shot, with their heads facing forwards, with their bodies as stiff as a board. This is less of an issue than the previous two, but it still takes the shine off a good goal.

This is of course without going into all the known problems with keepers turning into David de Gea on a bad day.


Animations

Some fairly nice ones this year. Some players show quite a fancy first touch. I do feel it's a little overdone though. Sometimes it's like a little heel flick. I've even had defenders doing little spins. It's not really bothersome though, and in some situations it looks great.

There still seems to be an animation issue when a few players find themselves in close proximity to eachother. Normally when you're dribbling and two defenders close you down and get really close to you. It looks messy, like it's missing a collision system. The ball seems to get dragged along, like it's stuck to one of the players. It's almost similar to PES09 when you could literally run through a player when you dribbled at him. It has the same sort of clumsiness. This also seems to happen when the AI are attacking me. I jockey, but when i eventually go to tackle, the CPU player seems to just run through me, or at least his body movement again defies the laws of physics. I suppose this will lessen when i learn how to defend properly.

Shooting animations look a little odd when performing a finesse or curled shot. They still don't seem to have nailed it. I hit a few with Ganso where the ball literally almost came off the heel. The ball leaves the completely wrong part of the foot, and it sounds niggly and pointless, but it matters. Anything that looks un-natural can take away significantly from the game, even if it is just cosmetic.


Graphics

Nice, but blurry. Your eyes adjust to the blur so it's fine. I'm wondering if they have done this to counteract the jagged edges complaints from PES11. Player faces look great, and the lighting is really nice.


AI

Really good. Player runs are intelligent. Playing with a playmaker is great. I was using Elano, and i would play a short pass, and then have him move straight after playing it. In boh Fifa and PES11 the player would automatically run forward. Here, he simply finds the best option which leaves him open to receive the ball again. If you watch David Silva live, he does this all the time. Plays the ball, and moves to be open to recieve it. Probing all the time. Great, and they seem to have implemented it really well.

CPU AI is very good. Already been beat by a couple of great moves. It is easy to retain possession even on top player though. I had a 72%-28% game bu lost 5-0 to Milan. I'm happy with the difficulty though. Keeping possession isn't that hard, but being productive with it is.


Things i wish they'd sort out...

Keepers in general. Keeper animations from PES5/6 were much better, oddly enough

Animations still need a bit of work. Some look great, otherwise are terrible.

I also wish they could do something to make scoring a goal feel great. In PES6, the camera used to zoom in when the ball hit the net, and the angle would change slightly. It was almost like a cut scene, but it made the goal feel complete. I know some people dislike this, but i really liked it. It seperated the goal from the rest of play. At the minute, the ball hits the back of the net (which look great by the way) and the crowd cheer, but it still lacks something.

And that's about it really from what i've played so far.


Overall

I know i've spent most of my post moaning, but it's actually a good game. Feels more free than any football game i've played. The AI is great. Player individuality is really noticeable again. Almost everything about the game is good, and at times it feels really great. It just has a few things which ruin the overall experience. Hopefully with this being a preview code, most of the issues can be ironed out. It is frustrating though that Konami haven't fixed the basic animations which can lead to a bit of an empty/frustrating sort of feeling. Because of this, i feel it is a game which some could grow frustrated with after an extended period of play. Others will love it. I don't know which side of the fence i sit at at the minute. It's a mixed bag, but Konami are definitely heading in the right direction and they appear to be getting there fairly quickly.
 
Ern Dog said:
Will the second demo definitely but a later code? From what i read it just sounded like it will have different teams, although i guess there would be no reason to have 2 demos if that was the case.
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Yup, next demo will be more of what final code is going to be like
 
Why are people suddenly expecting to know the game inside out from a couple of games?

Just because you were good at 2011 or PES5/6?

I had not won for 10 games becuase I was being rubbish and trying to force the new defending, dribbling etc but in essence I need to learn it all again, from scratch, the keepers are shit, we knew that already because we were warned about it already.

Because of the positivity so far from everyone who put a bit of quality time I feel people were expecting it to blow them away effortlessly when the demo reached us little folk, but what pro evo ever and I mean even in the glory days did you master after a couple of games?
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnn......

I've just played my first game of the WE 12 Demo. Initial impression, not very good at all. What's happened to the individuality ? It felt non-existent, it actually felt alot like how I remember Fifa. It never felt any real disparity between any of the players. This was always my concern before I'd played the game, based on what people had said. I'm usually in the minority and all the positive praise from alot of people had me a little worried that it may not be to my particular liking. The passing also lacks conviction, it doesnt feel very free and loose at all, it just doesnt feel right. Shooting was ok, it lacked zip but I did pull off some decent strikes adhering to the fundamentals. The ref was excellent, and the physics seem alot better. The Active A.I. was good but made it a little too easy option wise, I tried the Right-Stick Trigger and it worked well, but I'm not sure I'm buying into the philosophy, it feels a lot less organic because of it.

It's silly to judge based on one game, but I wanted to get my thoughts down immediately to see how they differ after longer play-testing. I can totally see how people are getting the 'Fifa Feel' and also the PES 6 comparisions. Which is exactly the opposite to what I want.

Hopefully the UK PES 12 Demo will be available soon so I can have play around with everything, it's hard to navigate on the WE version. Feeling very disgruntled, hopefully I will do a huge 360' after proper play-testing, but my gut feeling right now is saying to the contrary. It feels like a bit of a sell-out, God I hope I'm so wrong about that.
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Hah, my first match impression was the same as yours, and I immediately thought about people like you and klash. The fluidity and the strange pace of the game tricked me into thinking just that. After a few games I realized this wasn't the case. Individuality is still very much there and you feel that if you play with a team like Porto where you have completely different players like Hulk and Sapunaru, they're worlds apart in terms of agility and speed, mainly on the ball.

Inerthia and momentum are still there but in the more skillful players, because they react much much faster, you'll feel it much less.

Granted that you probably won't like that amount of smoothness since you loved PES 2011 so much, but hopefully the challenging AI and dribbling mechanics will make you overcome that.
 
DarthKebab said:
Why are people suddenly expecting to know the game inside out from a couple of games?

Just because you were good at 2011 or PES5/6?

I had not won for 10 games becuase I was being rubbish and trying to force the new defending, dribbling etc but in essence I need to learn it all again, from scratch, the keepers are shit, we knew that already because we were warned about it already.

Because of the positivity so far from everyone who put a bit of quality time I feel people were expecting it to blow them away effortlessly when the demo reached us little folk, but what pro evo ever and I mean even in the glory days did you master after a couple of games?
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Spot on mate, you have to get a few games in to appreciate whats going on and adapt. like it always is really, last year was no different.
 
Guys there is a difference between adjusting to a new game and things just being f'ed up. Most of the complaints i see are because of the latter.
 
_anderson said:
Hah, my first match impression was the same as yours, and I immediately thought about people like you and klash. The fluidity and the strange pace of the game tricked me into thinking just that. After a few games I realized this wasn't the case. Individuality is still very much there and you feel that if you play with a team like Porto where you have completely different players like Hulk and Sapunaru, they're worlds apart in terms of agility and speed, mainly on the ball.

Inerthia and momentum are still there but in the more skillful players, because they react much much faster, you'll feel it much less.

Granted that you probably won't like that amount of smoothness since you loved PES 2011 so much, but hopefully the challenging AI and dribbling mechanics will make you overcome that.
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I still totally feel the individuality of agile dribblers as opposed to lanky CBs. Super agile players like Robinho take twice as many touches and can turn on a dime; less agile players like Ferdinand take longer less confident strides/touches when on the ball but are still responsive. In the grand scheme of things, the gap is still there but it's been shortened a bit.
 
True, but you have to remember it IS a demo, and not even the 2nd one yet... it's unfair to write the game off at this stage. (imo)
 
When your not in possession, apart from the player you are controlling, are the other players active or are they idle until the cursor changes like in 2011.

Cheers.
 
Ern Dog said:
Guys there is a difference between adjusting to a new game and things just being f'ed up. Most of the complaints i see are because of the latter.
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What do you think is borked?

Heard the keepers, floaty shots and being able to switch wings with no passing error, 2 of those we already knew about from impressions.

I don't have a problem with passing, some goto the man, some are intercepted.

Didn't even know about the burst runs until somebody posted up the controls this morning, but did see examples of it in clips from gamescom.

But the point I am trying to make is people lambast the sites and magazines who review games for not giving certain sports games enough time and a positive report.

I expect some people wanting the game to fail, play one game, delete, slate but not on evo-web, I know they will give it some quality time in the end. :)
 
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