PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

How do you defend from corner though? On Legend difficulty i always lose virtually every single duel. Not to mention the player-switching is erratic inside the box. I never feel that i could switch my player as fast as the AI.
 
Alright lads, it's time for my first and possibly last annual 'End of Chrimbo' stream on twitch. Tonight at 20.00 UK time my destiny in ML will be decided as I take on my second Europa League knockout fixture against some poor team (I honestly don't remember what team it is) that somehow has a great chance against my selection of world beaters, as the home game for my AC Milan team ended 1-1. So I need to score a goal, that should be easy for my now - and kind of always - rusty manual shooting skills.
See you tonight at twitch.tv/daretostream
Don't forget to say hi if you drop by
 
Ameppe said:
I'm sorry for the state of Pes and everyone that still believed in them followiung the usual empty promises.
Pes doesn't deserve to be treated this way, the last few Pes have very little of the real Pes.

If during Ps3 generation they tried to recapture that magic and almost did it with Pes 2013, after Pes 2014 onwards seems like they lost the will to improve, they just made sure to make a playable, simple game, fun to play for short bursts, once in a while. But it's deep as a puddle right now. Most of its complexity and fun depth coming from Ps2 and to a certain degree, Ps3 games, has been lost.

Player individuality reduced to visual individuality, stats meaning nothing at all, offline modes being abandoned since years, AI teams playing far from a real life team.

They only improved control and responsiveness. Pes feels good when you can control and dribble with the ball, but the problem is, it's way too linear and samey ball control for every player. It's like they addressed the most common complaint of the game being clunky during Ps3 generation, but forgot to reintroduce individuality elements to distinguish players.

Even playing now Pes 2019 myclub vs CPU when i see some players with 60 ball control moving with the ball like they have 90 or so, even if the goal has been great makes me feel sad.

I mean, when i see low rated players constantly doing things that they shouldn't be able to according to their stats i lose all interest in the game. This happens both when i score or when i concede in unrealistic ways.

Just as an example: one of the last few matches during a counterattack with a 1vs1 struggle with a defender that was desperately trying to reach me. Well, the defender managed to reach me, pushed melike a crazy, he was a beast, 85 or so physical contact, he should have been able to stop my attacker with 65 physical contact. He should have been able to push me down, but nope. My attacker managed to resist without even stumbling one bit and i scored. I felt bad.

Physical contact means nothing. Speed means nothing. Ball control means nothing, header means nothing, shooting precision, power and finesse mean nothing. Only long passing somehow has some kind of influnce on precision, and that is only relegated to special passing abilities that some players like Modric have, but that shouldn't be locked behing specific player abilities.

It's just not a matter of modes and offline. It's the gameplay that has regressed to a much simpler state right now. Yes, it can be fun, but it's not able to keep being fun if you play more than one hour of consecutive matches. That also impacts the longevity of the game and its lasting appeal. The pitch is ours motto feel like a joke right now, honestly.
Click to expand...
Couldn't have said it any better. I don't know who said they fixed that same goal they score every time, cut back and score from 6 yard, but that's all they score against me. And that's after I've blocked a bunch of them per game too. The game is extremely linear. It's always pushing me in a certain direction to play. I'm almost always never happy when I score. What kind of game does this, when this should be the climax.

This plays like the FIFA of old instead of the PES of old.
 
The most notable thing about my recent stint with the game, the team I play for in BAL are a counter attack long pass team. Yet actually playing, it was one touch tiki taka nonsense that put me off 2018.
 
One thing both Pes and FIFA should have is the way NHL (EA) updates the game.
Their patches are called "tuner sets" and works like Pes/Fifa patches ,but with a great feature,your allowed to chose which one to play with.

Let's say you loved patch 1.2 and hates the new 1.3?
Just choose the old one,updates on rosters/trades won't be affected.
2019 and this should be an option here as well!
 
Amen to that. Theta exactly what's happened; a lot of people prefer the earliest version of NHL19 and, because of the tuner sets being available, they can simply go back to the version they enjoyed playing the most.
 
Is Konami still looking at these forums for feedbacks?

I just want to talk a bit about the problems of the basic triangle button (through ball), on full manual setting.

1) First of all, it's not really that manual. It finds a target player far too easily (easier than X)

2) It does very weird things to the defense. The defenders momentarily refuse to react to the ball. When u play against another human, it's very noticeable. U can actually tell which pass is triangle and which one is X or O. The problem only exists on the triangle (through ball button)

The problem it creates:

- defenders inability to react to the ball, in fact, it's like as if the defenders don't "understand" that the ball is there in front of them. This problem persists until someone takes a first touch on the ball

- defenders gets pulled by some "magnetism", automatically. I had moments when I point my stick the the right side, and the player moved to the left. This means u are forced to super cancel, every time your opponent use the basic triangle button. And even with super cancel, the defenders still don't quite understand where the ball is. U basically have to hold down super cancel and try to move your player to make his body touch the ball somehow. It's all very weird. Even if your body touch the ball, there's no animation from him to take control of the ball. It's like the ball is completely invisible to him. And like I said earlier, everything returns to normal, once someone takes a first touch on the ball.

So basically, if you are a defender, you are at a huge disadvantage, facing a basic triangle pass. Your first touch isn't really a first touch. You just happened to trip on the ball (because the defender's ball trapping animation is not activated anyway, he simply doesn't know the ball is there in front of him). This, of course, creates big problems in defense.

- Third problem. The player switching is locked, when your opponent uses basic triangle pass. You cannot switch players until someone takes a first touch

- Fourth problem. Sometimes the wrong players are programmed to come out to meet the ball. With player switching locked also, u can imagine big holes in the defense open up because of this

- Fifth problem. Basic triangle pass allows for 90-180 passing. Much easier to do big angle passes with triangle button, compared to X button. It kinda overrides body angle. X usually have errors when performing passes at unreasonably acute angles



So there's some really weird behavior with the basic triangle button on manual setting. A lot of people in divisions tend to use this button when they get into difficult situations (for example, trapped under pressure). The defensive reaction bug buys them more time. Bad passes seem to make it to the receiver easier, purely because defenders are unable to react.

If u play manual, online or offline against a human player, u must already know these sensations/reaction bugs I'm describing. It only happens when an opponent is using the basic triangle button.

It's been happening for a few years now. It's a weird thing that Konami never addressed. Take a look at this vid from PES17 for example. The ball can be right in front of a defender's nose, and there are no animation sets that u can activate, for him to retrieve the ball. Basically, he just treat the ball as if it's not there:

youtube.com/watch?v=yIj0QEWcIq4



I think the reason for this, is because the triangle pass is programmed as a "final pass" in PES.

And this creates problems in manual. In assisted, the pass paths are quite rigid and locked. The calculations to make the defenders react to a "final pass behind defense" traveling on locked path, is much easier. In manual, this triangle button pass could be under hit and fall in front of a defender. It's the degree of freedom that makes it go crazy. A "final pass behind the defense" suddenly played to feet, or played in front of defender instead of behind him, the game doesn't know how to deal with these situations. The calculations are not designed for something like that to happen. So the basic triangle does really strange things to defenders in manual setting.

I think the advance triangle does something weird as well. But the weird part is it confuses both the attacker and defender:NO:

I hope they can have a look at this and make some adjustments eventually. It's been going on for 5-6 years already


(edit: is something wrong with the youtube video embed feature? I'm getting a picture, not a video?)
 
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Antoine said:
Well, honestly, its 2018 and with all the technical advancements in football games and the power at their fingertips, no one can bring us the football title you would expect to see in this day and age.

First off, Pes, which has a lovely flow to it in the middle of the park but that is let down with shoddy attacking in the final third, keepers with restricted animations (earlier today i played three matches and scored two identikit goals, same shot, same keeper animations) limited licenses, but most of all, the most bland ai in a football game to date.

I mean c'mon, i've never seen such one dimensional a.i. We were told it was fixed but to me it plays exactly the same. How can you have a football game but no long shot efforts? Where is an a.i that will keep you challenged and on your toes without cheating? There was better a.i ten years ago!

Pes has lovely graphics, great player models and some nice lighting but its all let down by the above issues. I mean they've still got only 10 save slots ffs and a replay camera system that belongs in the dark ages.

A terrible disappointment.

Which brings me onto Fifa, which has the licences and the I have to say has the variety of play you expect from a football game, you really do get lots of spontaneous play that you would associate in football and that Pes lacks.

However...whoever designed the player models needs firing. They just don't look like athletes. They don't look like modern footballers. They have a hunched run, they have no real close control, they run with an awkward gait and their animations look out of sync.

Then you get the ball physics...ground passes act like bowling balls, theres no random bounces. Sometime i head the ball as a pass, and this is all on manual by the way, and the ball moves at 100mph! I mean ffs they had this in the previous versions so where has it gone?

And fouls? Where are they on BOTH games, Penalties are a fucking event.

Then they release about a million fucking patches, which has you constantly tweaking sliders, sliders by the way that they don't fucking describe to you and let you know what they do.
A terrible disappointment.

2019 has to be the year they ditch these games for multiplayer and start thinking about the single player crowd. Its dumbed down money making shite and it gets on my tits. Trying to turn these games into sports - well fuck me, I saw a fifa final the other week on youtube and both lads are playing on assisted controls - fucking assisted controls and they are supposed to be so called professionals at this sport game? I'd whoop them both on manual. Its a fucking joke.

Multiplayer is the worst fucking thing to hit consoles in the last few years. Theres this accepted stance that everyone naturally gravitates towards it and needs it, but i wouldn't waste my time with a bunch of people who just want to win at any cost. keep multiplayer for when you are round at your mates not for strangers giving you grief over the internet.

Both of these games have really let me down this year and I for one will definitely, DEFINITELY hold back on purchases of both titles next year.
Click to expand...

Hey we play pretty nice football in multiplayer these days, and we do it in manual. It's not hopeless

It's a lot of work u kinda have to get serious about team building and training etc. Not easy to get a good group going

youtube.com/watch?v=jMb0I3RYB4w


youtube.com/watch?v=3NwqZt7okCo

 
vxcmplx said:
Is Konami still looking at these forums for feedbacks?
Click to expand...

I bet Adam and Asim still think this forum is a bunch of hardcore retards as Asim agreed to say some time ago. Don't think they collect feedback from here, at all.
 
Emroth said:
Did he really say that??
Wow.. I always wanted to be hardcore!
:LOL:
Click to expand...

Asim didn't personally said that but he retweeted and liked a tweet of a guy on twitter saying to not listen to evo because "they are a bunch of hardcore retards". Adam made clear many times he sees what we say here as impossible to achieve because they can't follow what we say, just because we are too hardcore for the casual player.

I don't consider myself hardcore at all. I just want Pes to go back to make sense, follow stats, have great and fun modes, especially offline modes. I don't know how that makes me or anyone else here an hardcore gamer, it's just common sense.
 
Ameppe said:
I just want Pes to go back to make sense, follow stats
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if Konami view proper implementation of stats as too hardcore now. The casual pick-up-and-ping-pong player doesn't want to see any of their players mis-kick the ball, they want to click pass a few times, click shoot and score....which is pretty much how passing & shooting has become in this game. And probably why things like the shot technique stat no longer exists.

I bet even some of their own programmers are pissed off at the type of game they have to deliver as they know they can do something far better.
 
Ameppe said:
I don't consider myself hardcore at all. I just want Pes to go back to make sense, follow stats, have great and fun modes, especially offline modes.
Click to expand...
Me neither. Hence I laugued at that.

So going by his way of thinking, If anybody playing football games would like to see
- unpredictable AI
- fair results
- team/player ID
- more shots variety
- dribbling
- penalties
...and some more indepth modes to keep you interested...
...then such person is too hardcore for casual player. So what sort of casual players are they talking about? 6 year olds? Or maybe someone with one hand?
If what we say here is too hardcore, then their "casual" player shouldnt had moved beyond Tetris.

Unless their cathegorising of people is simpler than that. Anybody, who played good old Pes games is too hardcore for modern, limited society... maybe thats it...
 
Ameppe said:
Asim didn't personally said that but he retweeted and liked a tweet of a guy on twitter saying to not listen to evo because "they are a bunch of hardcore retards". Adam made clear many times he sees what we say here as impossible to achieve because they can't follow what we say, just because we are too hardcore for the casual player.

I don't consider myself hardcore at all. I just want Pes to go back to make sense, follow stats, have great and fun modes, especially offline modes. I don't know how that makes me or anyone else here an hardcore gamer, it's just common sense.
Click to expand...

Me too. Then again, of the thousands playing this game how many play ML? How many play ML over an extended period? Of those who play it extensively how many actually notice these things? And how many of those who notice really bother? It must be a fraction of a fraction of a fraction. Off hand, I count no more than 10 people on this forum who complain about it. In any case it is too small a group to take seriously from a developer perspective when there is a gazillion of other things to fix (like delivering Ibrox Park).

I am not defending their shitty attitude, I am just trying to have a realistic perspective.
 
Ameppe said:
I bet Adam and Asim still think this forum is a bunch of hardcore retards as Asim agreed to say some time ago. Don't think they collect feedback from here, at all.
Click to expand...
i strongly believe the vision adam had for this game is now gone, he has caved into the world of microtransactions and myclub, personally after pes18 the offline game is dead and wont be revived need to accept it and move on, iv learned they dont give a shit about the offliners its as simple as that, adam and co will be suger coating the underlying issues for pes 2020 with rebranding and player packs at the same time taking out more things out of the game im betting it will be BAL that will get the chop, as for master league getting a makeover they will only probably put in divsions 2 back in and make it as if its brand new again and thats it, you will know how much effort will be put into the game this year if the presentation and menus have improved at the very very least to keep up with the modern times.
 
Rodchenko said:
Me too. Then again, of the thousands playing this game how many play ML? How many play ML over an extended period? Of those who play it extensively how many actually notice these things? And how many of those who notice really bother? It must be a fraction of a fraction of a fraction. Off hand, I count no more than 10 people on this forum who complain about it. In any case it is too small a group to take seriously from a developer perspective when there is a gazillion of other things to fix (like delivering Ibrox Park).

I am not defending their shitty attitude, I am just trying to have a realistic perspective.
Click to expand...

The actual situation is: we have Fifa and a Fifa clone.

Why should Konami be happy to be the Fifa clone, instead of being its own thing? I think if they tried to differentiate like they did in the past many would follow them. This would make Fifa developers uncomfortable and push them too to innovate and try new things.

This actual situation where Fifa continues to sell so much they can afford to cruise control because of complete lack of competition from Pes, is the worst possible. Only Pes can be the one series to try and shake things up, otherwise we are doomed to yearly DLCs of Fifa and Pes for years to come.

So, what can be seen as innovation? Pushing forward on realism. You know that realism sells, too. People now accept the arcade like gameplay that both games offer because they can't do otherwise, but i bet if Konami tried to introduce more and more realistic elements every year nobody would complain about that and so even the "hardcore" fans like us would be happy.
 
I think we sometimes dig too deep and overthink a lot.
Truth is - most of us want basic elements of a football. Like fouls in Fifa. Is it really is asking too much?? Or for star players in Pes to dribble??
Its so fucking simple to implement.
Those MyClubs and FUTs will not be enough to keep both titles going in long run.
Single player is not dead. Sooner or later theyll wake up.
 
They only respond to the yes crowd to the omg this game is amazing, that’s why this game has down hard, all the guys that have given constructive criticism to the game have been blocked, which is why the game is as it is, I’m just hanging for cyberpunk 2077, pes will become non existent for me and the rest of my mates when that comes out
 
Why nobody had complain about ML prices and release clause?

This is very awful from my point of view...even about the contract renew...i haven't see anything about that...especially in social media
 
aderow said:
Amen to that. Theta exactly what's happened; a lot of people prefer the earliest version of NHL19 and, because of the tuner sets being available, they can simply go back to the version they enjoyed playing the most.
Click to expand...
Yes!
I play with 1.01 instead of the new 1.03 which has an insane amount of penalties (are you listening fifa!)
 
vxcmplx said:
Is Konami still looking at these forums for feedbacks?

I just want to talk a bit about the problems of the basic triangle button (through ball), on full manual setting.

1) First of all, it's not really that manual. It finds a target player far too easily (easier than X)

2) It does very weird things to the defense. The defenders momentarily refuse to react to the ball. When u play against another human, it's very noticeable. U can actually tell which pass is triangle and which one is X or O. The problem only exists on the triangle (through ball button)

The problem it creates:

- defenders inability to react to the ball, in fact, it's like as if the defenders don't "understand" that the ball is there in front of them. This problem persists until someone takes a first touch on the ball

- defenders gets pulled by some "magnetism", automatically. I had moments when I point my stick the the right side, and the player moved to the left. This means u are forced to super cancel, every time your opponent use the basic triangle button. And even with super cancel, the defenders still don't quite understand where the ball is. U basically have to hold down super cancel and try to move your player to make his body touch the ball somehow. It's all very weird. Even if your body touch the ball, there's no animation from him to take control of the ball. It's like the ball is completely invisible to him. And like I said earlier, everything returns to normal, once someone takes a first touch on the ball.

So basically, if you are a defender, you are at a huge disadvantage, facing a basic triangle pass. Your first touch isn't really a first touch. You just happened to trip on the ball (because the defender's ball trapping animation is not activated anyway, he simply doesn't know the ball is there in front of him). This, of course, creates big problems in defense.

- Third problem. The player switching is locked, when your opponent uses basic triangle pass. You cannot switch players until someone takes a first touch

- Fourth problem. Sometimes the wrong players are programmed to come out to meet the ball. With player switching locked also, u can imagine big holes in the defense open up because of this

- Fifth problem. Basic triangle pass allows for 90-180 passing. Much easier to do big angle passes with triangle button, compared to X button. It kinda overrides body angle. X usually have errors when performing passes at unreasonably acute angles



So there's some really weird behavior with the basic triangle button on manual setting. A lot of people in divisions tend to use this button when they get into difficult situations (for example, trapped under pressure). The defensive reaction bug buys them more time. Bad passes seem to make it to the receiver easier, purely because defenders are unable to react.

If u play manual, online or offline against a human player, u must already know these sensations/reaction bugs I'm describing. It only happens when an opponent is using the basic triangle button.

It's been happening for a few years now. It's a weird thing that Konami never addressed. Take a look at this vid from PES17 for example. The ball can be right in front of a defender's nose, and there are no animation sets that u can activate, for him to retrieve the ball. Basically, he just treat the ball as if it's not there:

youtube.com/watch?v=yIj0QEWcIq4



I think the reason for this, is because the triangle pass is programmed as a "final pass" in PES.

And this creates problems in manual. In assisted, the pass paths are quite rigid and locked. The calculations to make the defenders react to a "final pass behind defense" traveling on locked path, is much easier. In manual, this triangle button pass could be under hit and fall in front of a defender. It's the degree of freedom that makes it go crazy. A "final pass behind the defense" suddenly played to feet, or played in front of defender instead of behind him, the game doesn't know how to deal with these situations. The calculations are not designed for something like that to happen. So the basic triangle does really strange things to defenders in manual setting.

I think the advance triangle does something weird as well. But the weird part is it confuses both the attacker and defender:NO:

I hope they can have a look at this and make some adjustments eventually. It's been going on for 5-6 years already


(edit: is something wrong with the youtube video embed feature? I'm getting a picture, not a video?)
Click to expand...

It's a shame that manual passing does not apply to through passes, and really weird that there isn't a manual setting for through passes. Shouldn't be that hard to implement. Advanced through passes are usually way too slow for the snappy passing that is most often required for that often crucial through ball.
Also, have they somehow effed manual headers again? They were fixed at a point, after their 'big fix' patch, but lately my players have this weird tendency to just stand still when a cross comes in and not even attempt to head it.
 
Emroth said:
I think we sometimes dig too deep and overthink a lot.
Truth is - most of us want basic elements of a football. Like fouls in Fifa. Is it really is asking too much?? Or for star players in Pes to dribble??
Its so fucking simple to implement.
Those MyClubs and FUTs will not be enough to keep both titles going in long run.
Single player is not dead. Sooner or later theyll wake up.
Click to expand...
the (sharply) dwindling sales numbers are a godsend, at least I hope so. I hope they drop even further next year so at least EA OR Konami wake up. As it is, EA is the company putting more effort into offline. I've just dipped my toes in FIFA19 and I have to say it plays a fine game, handling is now very similar to PES. In fact the only thing PES still has over FIFA, general "feel" on the ball, is now just very slightly noticeable. Strange how quickly I got used to it, it really is FIFA and a FIFA-clone nowadays I guess. WHY are there no fouls in FIFA though, that is grating to me. If FIFA has that then PES literally has no reason to exist anymore for me. Would be the final nail in the coffin and from a personal standpoint, all the better. At least then I wouldn't be giving the half-assed effort that is PES any chances anymore.
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
They only respond to the yes crowd to the omg this game is amazing, that’s why this game has down hard, all the guys that have given constructive criticism to the game have been blocked, which is why the game is as it is, I’m just hanging for cyberpunk 2077, pes will become non existent for me and the rest of my mates when that comes out
Click to expand...
I'm so pumped for Cyberpunk. You know it's going to be good, CD Projekt Red delivers and then some. I regard The Witcher 3 as THE best game of all time and best of all, there is NO online component to the core gameplay. None whatsoever. Old-school single player gaming at its very best.
 
Ameppe said:
The actual situation is: we have Fifa and a Fifa clone.

Why should Konami be happy to be the Fifa clone, instead of being its own thing? I think if they tried to differentiate like they did in the past many would follow them. This would make Fifa developers uncomfortable and push them too to innovate and try new things.

This actual situation where Fifa continues to sell so much they can afford to cruise control because of complete lack of competition from Pes, is the worst possible. Only Pes can be the one series to try and shake things up, otherwise we are doomed to yearly DLCs of Fifa and Pes for years to come.

So, what can be seen as innovation? Pushing forward on realism. You know that realism sells, too. People now accept the arcade like gameplay that both games offer because they can't do otherwise, but i bet if Konami tried to introduce more and more realistic elements every year nobody would complain about that and so even the "hardcore" fans like us would be happy.
Click to expand...

This!!!

I think Konami don't get what a huge chance they have now. Everyone I know is so completely fu**** up about Fifa 19 (all online players of course) that they would instantly switch to a different football game. Even the internet community and Pro Players of Fifa online are so bored and furious about EA Sports that they are willing to switch to a different footie game but they just don't see a different or better choice. It's like you said you have the choice between Fifa and a wannabe Fifa (which is still a lot better than the original Fifa at least for me). Konami (or a different company) could easily take advantage of this it's almost the same situation like a few years back when NBA 2K had overtaken NBA Live and even destroyed it for a few years. But why would you switch to the different game if it has almost nothing to offer? Like I said I think it would be super easy for Konami if they would just take the right steps.

1. Remove Scripting and Bias in online games. They could even advertise their game with this and a lot of people would switch only for that reason. Something like "we offer the fairest and most competitive football game on the market".
But what is Konami doing instead?! They copy the shitty online scripting that is hated by everyone in Fifa and make it irrelevant which game you play.

2. Better online modes. Everyone loves FUT (mode wise not gameplay wise) it has good stuff like transfer market, free choice of tactics, featured players (realistic ones) so why not just copy that? Why make a half arsed shitty copy of that (named Myclub) when you can just copy the whole thing OR make something better and more fun like MLO.

3. Gameplay wise it wouldn't even have to be spectacular the first few years. Just get the football basics right. Passing, Shooting, Player Stats, Defence. That's it. Online players and especially Fifa players are like I said so fed up with the game the last years and especially Fifa 19 that they would take a simpler and glitch free game that reacts logically and doesn't do what the producers want gladly.

For offline players I don't know I think that at some point you just have to accept that offline gaming (in non story games) is just outdated. (Maybe someday it has a comeback who knows). The solution would be to add some "friends" or guys from the forum to the PS4 friends list and get together for a few games from time to time. I think everything else is just vain hope.
 
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Worm199 said:
So, would you actually recommend going back to PES 18 Master League, instead of continuing with PES 19's?
Click to expand...
NO in my opinion. PES 18 is the worst of the worst bar none to me. At least PES 19 has fouls and "some" semblance of player individuality. PES 18 IMO, has nothing to offer whatsoever.
 
koningfrikandel said:
NO in my opinion. PES 18 is the worst of the worst bar none to me. At least PES 19 has fouls and "some" semblance of player individuality. PES 18 IMO, has nothing to offer whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Im with you on that.
Apart from skills being more responsive and italian/spanish D2's, Pes18 was shambles.
Rocket shots were fun for a little while but it quickly became unnatural and arcade. Headers were OP to bits. Never had in-game injury, very few fouls. Plus graphics was shite comparing to 19.
With all the flaws that 19 has id rather few games on 19 for my football fix than going back to 18.
 
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