PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[geeeeee]

I think the best way they should implement manual.

First of all with manual shooting...

While controlling Kane, if my input was correct (with input I mean aiming, power, timing etc..) then maybe there would be a 10% chance (because of stats and positioning and stuff) that it would go wide or high or straight at the GK. If that was to happen then I would think 'oh Kane you should have scored that!'

While controlling Trippier (sorry using Spurs players as an example), if my input was correct then maybe a 40% chance of it going off target because of stats and stuff. Again I would think 'oh Trippier that was a good chance, how did you miss? Next time I'll get you to pass it."

While controlling Kane, if my input was wrong then maybe there would still be a 10% chance (because of Kane's stats) that it would still be on target. And then you would think 'wow, how did Kane pull that out? Or wow that was lucky!"

While controlling Trippier and my input is wrong then there is no chance that the shot will be on target.

That should be pretty much the same with manual passing.

Maybe if that was to happen then there would be a kind of percentage scripting.

Slightly different but I liked the way one of the FIFA's (can't remember which one) had the penalty system with a smaller target or bigger target depending on the player's stats. Maybe something like that but invisible could work.

 

[James Beaver]

You are pretty spot on with the "snap" theory as it's almost impossible to project the true trajectory/direction/power of a pass/shot from the input given by the user due to the physics engine and animation sync issue/delay so the game has a threshold on how much you get it close to another player or the post and then doing what it normally does for the assist settings. Manual isn't as manual as people think it is. It's called perceived control when you think you have more control than what you truly have.

At one point I used to pass with advanced through balls only. I think it gives the closest experience to true manual I have ever had.

Here are two videos of it, demonstrating how it works. The first one is with guides on, to illustrate targeting, the second with guides off (the way I actually played).



Short critical passes turned out to be difficult in offense, that's why I let it go. (But still used advanced through balls in general.) With hindsight, this kind of full manual might still be a good idea, just use regular passes extremely up close.

 

[geeeeee]

I have to admit that I understand half of things that you guys say about "if you do this and di that...tweak this and tune that, the game plays great!" All I know is that I want that PES 2018 became a game you just pick up and play without needing none of this tweaks. A game that click instantaneously, a game that you say "wow, did you see what the AI just did? Or, when you hit a dip long shot on the crossbar, you jump out of your seat even if you are losing the game, you know?

We are a football tribe.

Yes in bold that's what I want!

 

[Deco]

I think the best way they should implement manual.

First of all with manual shooting...

While controlling Kane, if my input was correct (with input I mean aiming, power, timing etc..) then maybe there would be a 10% chance (because of stats and positioning and stuff) that it would go wide or high or straight at the GK. If that was to happen then I would think 'oh Kane you should have scored that!'

While controlling Trippier (sorry using Spurs players as an example), if my input was correct then maybe a 40% chance of it going off target because of stats and stuff. Again I would think 'oh Trippier that was a good chance, how did you miss? Next time I'll get you to pass it."

While controlling Kane, if my input was wrong then maybe there would still be a 10% chance (because of Kane's stats) that it would still be on target. And then you would think 'wow, how did Kane pull that out? Or wow that was lucky!"

While controlling Trippier and my input is wrong then there is no chance that the shot will be on target.

That should be pretty much the same with manual passing.

Maybe if that was to happen then there would be a kind of percentage scripting.
. .Slightly different but I liked the way one of the FIFA's (can't remember which one) had the penalty system with a smaller target or bigger target depending on the player's stats. Maybe something like that but invisible could work.

Ok geeeee I agree with what you have said .. . .I use manual a lot and and I am used to angles when shooting. . when I use a player with less accuracy or less powerful shooting he will either hit it wide or into the keepers hands a lot ,whereas a player with decent stats will score or nearly score which proves that stats come into play. . ..but I also find that it can be similar with passing. . . there is only one player on my team who can hit an accurate long ball to a runner when I get it right. . .. most players can pass 10 yards to a player anyway.. .2 things you have to take into consideration . . .scripting can prevent you from scoring or being on target sometimes. . .and also some players for some reason perform well above their stats and have been in Pes for years for some unknown reason. . .taking penos can be solved by practising in training mode even for Tottingham players.

 

[Deco]

At one point I used to pass with advanced through balls only. I think it gives the closest experience to true manual I have ever had.

Here are two videos of it, demonstrating how it works. The first one is with guides on, to illustrate targeting, the second with guides off (the way I actually played).



Short critical passes turned out to be difficult in offense, that's why I let it go. (But still used advanced through balls in general.) With hindsight, this kind of full manual might still be a good idea, just use regular passes extremely up close.

James do you not think that because you are trying to follow the guides it rules out your estimation of hitting the man without guides? You look like you are aiming at the target.

 

[James Beaver]

James do you not think that because you are trying to follow the guides it rules out your estimation of hitting the man without guides? You look like you are aiming at the target.

Not 100% sure of what you are asking. Assuming I get it right, here is my answer:

The first video, with guides, is just an illustration of the targeting mechanism, for players who don't know how it works.

The second video, without guides, is an illustration of how I actually played.

Did that answer your question?

Note. Both videos were meant to illustrate the concept to other players. They are not from an actual "for real" match.

 

[Deco]

Not 100% sure of what you are asking. Assuming I get it right, here is my answer:

The first video, with guides, is just an illustration of the targeting mechanism, for players who don't know how it works.

The second video, without guides, is an illustration of how I actually played.

Did that answer your question?

Note. Both videos were meant to illustrate the concept to other players. They are not from an actual "for real" match.

I apologise James I thought you played with both. .misunderstood the point . .my bad.

 

[geeeeee]

Ok geeeee I agree with what you have said .. . .I use manual a lot and and I am used to angles when shooting. . when I use a player with less accuracy or less powerful shooting he will either hit it wide or into the keepers hands a lot ,whereas a player with decent stats will score or nearly score which proves that stats come into play. . ..but I also find that it can be similar with passing. . . there is only one player on my team who can hit an accurate long ball to a runner when I get it right. . .. most players can pass 10 yards to a player anyway.. .2 things you have to take into consideration . . .scripting can prevent you from scoring or being on target sometimes. . .and also some players for some reason perform well above their stats and have been in Pes for years for some unknown reason. . .taking penos can be solved by practising in training mode even for Tottingham players.

Yeh i agree Deco that i do feel slight difference between players but i think that maybe they can just tweak it a bit more so that some players miss hit it more often or hit the shot less powerfully Because i do feel that all of my players have a good shot on them. But this also has to happen for CPU players.

 

[Matt10]

The main problem is the fact that every single pass is followed by a dribble. This dribble is the same evading maneuver. You have the ball stuck to your feet, and simply do a "circle" and change directions. The user can do this and the CPU can do this.

Watch any real match. There is hardly any time, or rather a preference, for players to just dribble and not pass. Yes, if given the space, they will dribble, but a pass is easier. Why?

Because, if anyone has ever played the game, dribbling takes up more stamina than passing the ball does. Yet, in PES 16/17, every single possession is followed by a instance of dribbling.

This addresses three critical shortcomings in gameplay fundamentals.

1. Proper pressure (regardless of tactics)

2. Lack of understanding that build up is created by pulling defenders out of position.

3. The ball moves faster than a dribbling player.

 

[James Beaver]

The main problem is the fact that every single pass is followed by a dribble. This dribble is the same evading maneuver. ... Yet, in PES 16/17, every single possession is followed by a instance of dribbling.

Yes.

Unfortunately - or fortunately, depending on your point of view - this is also a huge issue in Fifa 17 CPU play, even with sliders. The preference to dribble is infuriating, as evidenced in one of your vids.

Not wishing to make this a Fifa discussion. Just to put things in perspective. Offline players have it hard now. CPU play very low in priority list, it seems.

Edit. Jump to 13:15 in the video. Setting start time in link doesn't seem to be working on this board.

 

[Lami]

I don't want BAL to become the Journey. I didn't like the Journey at all. It is very boring and much too short.

I don't want the mode to become an exact copy of The Journey, I want the good and personal aspects of it to be in BAL. It can bring the mode to life, really. When I went for trials and was picked for United it felt so real like I was personally there I almost teared up, not exaggerating. When i wasn't doing very well and got shipped out to Newcastle I got very upset. Then I performed well at Newcastle and when winter transfers came and United wanted me back I was already attached to Newcastle that I honestly felt like staying, at least until the end of the season to see bit through and for the virtual connection I felt. The cinematics were cool and nicely integrated. IMO these single player modes really need some life injected into them as currently they're very bland. The length of it would stay like BAL is obviously, until retirement.

I would love such lifelike emotional ups and downs in BAL.

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

Yeh i agree Deco that i do feel slight difference between players but i think that maybe they can just tweak it a bit more so that some players miss hit it more often or hit the shot less powerfully Because i do feel that all of my players have a good shot on them. But this also has to happen for CPU players.

shoot on player camera (so you can see the angles and up close) with different players. I play always on player camera and can tell a big difference in shooting power and accuracy in players. Some players shots are so weak they can't even beat the keeper.

The main problem is the fact that every single pass is followed by a dribble. This dribble is the same evading maneuver. You have the ball stuck to your feet, and simply do a "circle" and change directions. The user can do this and the CPU can do this.

Watch any real match. There is hardly any time, or rather a preference, for players to just dribble and not pass. Yes, if given the space, they will dribble, but a pass is easier. Why?

Because, if anyone has ever played the game, dribbling takes up more stamina than passing the ball does. Yet, in PES 16/17, every single possession is followed by a instance of dribbling.

This addresses three critical shortcomings in gameplay fundamentals.

1. Proper pressure (regardless of tactics)

2. Lack of understanding that build up is created by pulling defenders out of position.

3. The ball moves faster than a dribbling player.

hope to see this improved in 2018.
in 2016 the pressure and spacing was better.
this is what i don't like about 2017 it's unrealistic pressuring and annoying to play against.

 

[Elja]

I don't want the mode to become an exact copy of The Journey, I want the good and personal aspects of it to be in BAL. It can bring the mode to life, really. When I went for trials and was picked for United it felt so real like I was personally there I almost teared up, not exaggerating. When i wasn't doing very well and got shipped out to Newcastle I got very upset. Then I performed well at Newcastle and when winter transfers came and United wanted me back I was already attached to Newcastle that I honestly felt like staying, at least until the end of the season to see bit through and for the virtual connection I felt. The cinematics were cool and nicely integrated. IMO these single player modes really need some life injected into them as currently they're very bland. The length of it would stay like BAL is obviously, until retirement.

I would love such lifelike emotional ups and downs in BAL.

The most konami could do is add some cut scenes like the old type BAL. The journey is something fresh for football gaming, but it's more like watching a movie, no matter how good you play you will still end up loaned to those championship sides because you have to follow the story line. And it's just a one season thing, perhaps if you have a story and after you finish it you have a choice to continue to BAL it would be nice.

For me konami should focus on fixing what they have first, the rating is unrealistic you're overall rating goes up too fast. You could be like 90+ in your early 20s. They should make it harder to add overall ratings, and maybe add training sessions to help you increase your ratings. They should also add an option to simulate the rest of the game if we are subbed off rather than forcing us to watch the whole match.

 

[James Beaver]

I apologise James I thought you played with both. .misunderstood the point . .my bad.

No harm done.

[You probably noticed I left the scene for a while. Dropped challenges. Tried WE9LE. Didn't do it for me. Now on hold as far as footie games are concerned. But not immune to hype. ]

 

[geeeeee]

shoot on player camera (so you can see the angles and up close) with different players. I play always on player camera and can tell a big difference in shooting power and accuracy in players. Some players shots are so weak they can't even beat the keeper.

I take your word for it that it is better shooting on player cam and it is great that you play it that way. But I like to play on broadcasting cam 'left to right - right to left'.

 

[Lami]

The most konami could do is add some cut scenes like the old type BAL. The journey is something fresh for football gaming, but it's more like watching a movie, no matter how good you play you will still end up loaned to those championship sides because you have to follow the story line. And it's just a one season thing, perhaps if you have a story and after you finish it you have a choice to continue to BAL it would be nice.

For me konami should focus on fixing what they have first, the rating is unrealistic you're overall rating goes up too fast. You could be like 90+ in your early 20s. They should make it harder to add overall ratings, and maybe add training sessions to help you increase your ratings. They should also add an option to simulate the rest of the game if we are subbed off rather than forcing us to watch the whole match.

If the story line can somewhat be tweaked to make it more "open world" in a sense where our decisions and stats affect the outcome then that would be very welcomed. Play to the manager's expectations and you're in. Not and you're on his bad side and shipped. Also different managers and their styles should play a role. Many a good player thriving under certain managers plummet under others. You can also be playing well but your public/media responses and actions aren't to the manager's liking. When shit hits the fan the board would then have no choice but to get rid of either you or the manager; who's more valuable? I want all of these things in the game like real football. All these add to the atmosphere. All the drama! And yes please, game simulation when we're not playing is a must.

Regarding stats in general (all game modes and especially ML), I've always wanted hard training to make star players, the legendary ones. Not just the general training everyone does. Also have specific stat growth for achieving higher percentages in matches, i.e. you managed to keep your passing % high at 85 or above and you'd see a bigger increase specifically in your passing stats above others. Dribble past players successfully and the same will happen. Shoot on target and again the same will happen. Score and it'll be an even better increase. HOWEVER, be shit at any of these and more in game and see your stats decrease as well! This would keep us on our toes and make sure we perform well every game with the least mistakes. Not try anything crazy or risky because this time you'd actually be punished for it. This in turn would also affect the player's current mood. I want it see it all reflected in stats as this would be a much better indication of where every player's current stats are, plus a little arrow (or colored numbers) next to each stat to let us know the player's currently improving or declining, and up to us to take the risk if we're in a transfers window.

And sorry for my crappy English recently as I've been posting from my phone sometimes and autocorrect does my head in sometimes.

 

[stuartyd]

Auto Protect
https://twitter.com/adam_bhatti/status/867512526984151042

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

If the story line can somewhat be tweaked to make it more "open world" in a sense where our decisions and stats affect the outcome then that would be very welcomed. Play to the manager's expectations and you're in. Not and you're on his bad side and shipped. Also different managers and their styles should play a role. Many a good player thriving under certain managers plummet under others. You can also be playing well but your public/media responses and actions aren't to the manager's liking. When shit hits the fan the board would then have no choice but to get rid of either you or the manager; who's more valuable? I want all of these things in the game like real football. All these add to the atmosphere. All the drama! And yes please, game simulation when we're not playing is a must.

Regarding stats in general (all game modes and especially ML), I've always wanted hard training to make star players, the legendary ones. Not just the general training everyone does. Also have specific stat growth for achieving higher percentages in matches, i.e. you managed to keep your passing % high at 85 or above and you'd see a bigger increase specifically in your passing stats above others. Dribble past players successfully and the same will happen. Shoot on target and again the same will happen. Score and it'll be an even better increase. HOWEVER, be shit at any of these and more in game and see your stats decrease as well! This would keep us on our toes and make sure we perform well every game with the least mistakes. Not try anything crazy or risky because this time you'd actually be punished for it. This in turn would also affect the player's current mood. I want it see it all reflected in stats as this would be a much better indication of where every player's current stats are, plus a little arrow (or colored numbers) next to each stat to let us know the player's currently improving or declining, and up to us to take the risk if we're in a transfers window.

And sorry for my crappy English recently as I've been posting from my phone sometimes and autocorrect does my head in sometimes.

yeah but, do you really see Konami putting the time and money into that type of development? They're track record shows they don't do it. Heck, it would shock me if we get good commentary like Fifa's had for 6 years, let alone a full story mode.

Auto Protect
https://twitter.com/adam_bhatti/status/867512526984151042

It's called Auto protect. Which means it's automatic. It's incredible, wait until you see it!

he might as well just said what a dummy this person is.

does he have to give a unprofessional smart ass answer to a kid or young person ? They might not know any better being young. this man is immature, no way to talk to the customers.
he might be good for ideas for development, but he's not good dealing with customers.

he should have said: (even if he doesn't mean it) It's incredible, wait until you see it! Yes it's a very good automatic system that changes the game in a positive way, you'll love it.

i'm not nit picking here because i have nothing against him, but that's just rude and unprofessional.

 

[PES94]

yeah but, do you really see Konami putting the time and money into that type of development? They're track record shows they don't do it. Heck, it would shock me if we get good commentary like Fifa's had for 6 years, let alone a full story mode.



It's called Auto protect. Which means it's automatic. It's incredible, wait until you see it!

he might as well just said what a dummy this person is.

does he have to give a unprofessional smart ass answer to a kid or young person ? They might not know any better being young. this man is immature, no way to talk to the customers.
he might be good for ideas for development, but he's not good dealing with customers.

he should have said: (even if he doesn't mean it) It's incredible, wait until you see it! Yes it's a very good automatic system that changes the game in a positive way, you'll love it.

i'm not nit picking here because i have nothing against him, but that's just rude and unprofessional.

I think you're looking way too much into it. I don't see how that was rude from him. It was a straight forward answer. This is twitter not a meeting.

 

[spurs7]

I think you're looking way too much into it. I don't see how that was rude from him. It was a straight forward answer. This is twitter not a meeting.

It's not rude at all ,

 

[superleeds1]

yeah but, do you really see Konami putting the time and money into that type of development? They're track record shows they don't do it. Heck, it would shock me if we get good commentary like Fifa's had for 6 years, let alone a full story mode.



It's called Auto protect. Which means it's automatic. It's incredible, wait until you see it!

he might as well just said what a dummy this person is.

does he have to give a unprofessional smart ass answer to a kid or young person ? They might not know any better being young. this man is immature, no way to talk to the customers.
he might be good for ideas for development, but he's not good dealing with customers.

he should have said: (even if he doesn't mean it) It's incredible, wait until you see it! Yes it's a very good automatic system that changes the game in a positive way, you'll love it.

i'm not nit picking here because i have nothing against him, but that's just rude and unprofessional.

What pes94 & spurs7 said.
We all know how Mr Bhatti has reacted to some very difficult posts on social media,but instead of dragging him through never ending purgatory,why not cut him a bit of slack?

It seemed a perfectly straightforward and reasonable response.Your reading too much into that reply.
Just saying.

 

[*aLe]

I think you're looking way too much into it. I don't see how that was rude from him. It was a straight forward answer. This is twitter not a meeting.

What he said.
Indeed I wish he always were that straightforward and clear while answering indeed.

 

[PES Russia]

*Notification*
We continue to work. We hope for your support.
Sincerely with respect, PES Russia.

Read the publication: https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/pes-2018-thank-you-very-much-konami.77537/

Read the publication: https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/pro-evolution-soccer-2018-checklist-for-playtesters.77536/

 

[Keith Houchen]

Checklist for playtesters:

• The single-player game.
• The single-player game.
• The single-player game.

Please don't come back gushing about PES2018 having not actually played it.

 

[Topaz]

Checklist for playtesters:

• The single-player game.
• The single-player game.
• The single-player game.

Please don't come back gushing about PES2018 having not actually played it.

Glad to know that I wasn't the only person that could care less about the online gimmicks. Most of the time, I play against the CPU and rarely with my buddies. Just give me a football game that gets the fundamentals of football right, have a fluent animation as well as animation transition and footplanting and have players and teams that are distinguishable. I don't know why it's so hard recently to get that right when it was right at the beginning.

 

[Ameppe]

Much more teams to differentiate, while database team developers is always the same number. Do you know how many people worked on Pes 2017 database?

Six developers. Just six. Look at the Pes 2017 credits.

The EU KONAMI just gives the Japanese team characteristics numbers for individual players, but team tactics and everything else is in Tokio team hands. This is why, expect the most important teams, tactics are completely similar in every other team and they all tend to play the same.

They really need to increase their development team numbers in Japan, we can only hope they did something for Pes 2018.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Much more teams to differentiate, while database team developers is always the same number. Do you know how many people worked on Pes 2017 database?

Six developers. Just six. Look at the Pes 2017 credits.

The EU KONAMI just gives the Japanese team characteristics numbers for individual players, but team tactics and everything else is in Tokio team hands. This is why, expect the most important teams, tactics are completely similar in every other team and they all tend to play the same.

They really need to increase their development team numbers in Japan, we can only hope they did something for Pes 2018.

good point! as i already said a couple of times: give this (data stuff) to the community. the other company have plenty of hired and free people doing that kind of stuff. i would like to help and edit, say one club (about 20-25 players) every week completely (for free/for the greater good/for the players/for the pes community)!

 

[Lami]

i would like to help and edit, say one club (about 20-25 players) every week completely (for free/for the greater good/for the players/for the pes community)!

I'm sorry to say this, but after working with Konami for a short period, they do not deserve any of that "greater good".

 

[koningfrikandel]

Lami, care to elaborate? I know Konami "employs" the community for editing and that kind of stuff but never heard from someone who has actually done this. I'm guessing you did?

 

[gerd]

Please explain yourself, Lami.