PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Bond!JamesBond! said:
manual controls on player camera you can feel player likeness, stats matter and shootings great, i'll never go back any other way.
Barcelona on regular definitely will give you a game.
I became a big PES fan because of this. I play PS4 version.

Player was off balance and sprayed his shot. Shooting isn't easy or laser guided.
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I agree to a certain extent when being off balance on manual shooting a shot can go anywhere like in your video. My problem is that the CPU doesnt have shots like that.

And also with human controlled players with manual shots they are normally hit 'true' like right in the centre of the ball. Yeh it can still go over or wide but the contact is mostly bang in the centre.
 
geeeeee said:
I agree to a certain extent when being off balanced on manual shooting a shot can go anywhere like in your video. My problem is that the CPU doesnt have shots like that.
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This, this!! That's my problem with A) using manual controls and B) PES full-stop.

In the Marseille game I posted a brief video of in the ML thread - where I played on manual, on Professional difficulty - their passing accuracy at the end of the game was 95%.

I'm not sticking to manual for as long as the AI's passing is so ludicrously overpowered. (All that possession and it finished 0-0 - the only thing the difficulty level seemed to do, in this scenario, is stop them from scoring. Everything else was just as perfect and psychic as it is on any higher difficulty.)
 
Chris Davies said:
This, this!! That's my problem with A) using manual controls and B) PES full-stop.

In the Marseille game I posted a brief video of in the ML thread - where I played on manual, on Professional difficulty - their passing accuracy at the end of the game was 95%.

I'm not sticking to manual for as long as the AI's passing is so ludicrously overpowered. (All that possession and it finished 0-0 - the only thing the difficulty level seemed to do, in this scenario, is stop them from scoring. Everything else was just as perfect and psychic as it is on any higher difficulty.)
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yeah but, what did you do to decrease the passing percentage ? Just saying IRL if your not pressing or getting in passing lanes then they will pass 95% too. I wonder if rails being so strong on a side camera because of longer passing distances is making it harder to stop AI passing.

i just played Borussia Dortmund on player camera and they had 82% passing i had 78% i pressed and got in passing lanes.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
yeah but, what did you do to decrease the passing percentage ? Just saying IRL if your not pressing or getting in passing lanes then they will pass 95% too. I wonder if rails being so strong on a side camera because of longer passing distances is making it harder to stop AI passing.

i just played Borussia Dortmund on player camera and they had 82% passing i had 78% i pressed and got in passing lanes.
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There are huge differences in CPU pass rates depending on scripting or something similar. There are matches where pass rates are reasonable, like yours. And then there are matches where the rate is ridiculous - and it doesn't have to be against a particularly skillful team.

Also, whether a high pass rate is reasonable depends on the kind of passes made. If you are defending patiently and the CPU is building carefully, a high rate is fine. If they are attacking aggressively, with risky passes, a high rate is not realistic, not even if you are just covering your base in defense. Unfortunately it's all too easy to see high rates of the latter type.
 
James Beaver said:
There are huge differences in CPU pass rates depending on scripting or something similar. There are matches where pass rates are reasonable, like yours. And then there are matches where the rate is ridiculous - and it doesn't have to be against a particularly skillful team.

Also, whether a high pass rate is reasonable depends on the kind of passes made. If you are defending patiently and the CPU is building carefully, a high rate is fine. If they are attacking aggressively, with risky passes, a high rate is not realistic, not even if you are just covering your base in defense. Unfortunately it's all too easy to see high rates of the latter type.
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good point.

i would like to see a camera like this for 2018 for free kicks, our current camera sucks.
 
geeeeee said:
I agree to a certain extent when being off balance on manual shooting a shot can go anywhere like in your video. My problem is that the CPU doesnt have shots like that.

And also with human controlled players with manual shots they are normally hit 'true' like right in the centre of the ball. Yeh it can still go over or wide but the contact is mostly bang in the centre.
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I agree with this. It seems like in recent PES, there's no such thing as making a poor contact when hitting the ball (for a pass, or for a shot).

What I mean is, in older PES it used to matter more, the timing on the contact you make with the ball. For example, pressing the pass/shoot button too early or late, would give you a bit of pass/shot error. Now I'm not sure if those errors even have anything to do with our timing anymore. Do the players still swing their leg too early/late?

I think those errors, if any, are just hard-coded/scripted now. You just watch the game do it's thing, not much to do with your input timing.
 
If you choose to play manual against the Ai you must know that you're putting yourself at a disadvantage .. .it's a challenge. . how could the Ai join in and also play manual?. . .it's not human, it can only play the way its programmed to play. .if you want to win every match play assisted and even then the scripting can prevent you from winning. . .I think people are confused as to what manual is about. . they look upon it as a way of beating scripting somehow because they're more in control of passing and shooting. .. . it's just a more challenging way of playing where your own skill comes into play. . .accuracy from the user . ..that's all it is.
 
Deco said:
If you choose to play manual against the Ai you must know that you're putting yourself at a disadvantage .. .it's a challenge. . how could the Ai join in and also play manual?. . .it's not human, it can only play the way its programmed to play. .if you want to win every match play assisted and even then the scripting can prevent you from winning. . .I think people are confused as to what manual is about. . they look upon it as a way of beating scripting somehow because they're more in control of passing and shooting. .. . it's just a more challenging way of playing where your own skill comes into play. . .accuracy from the user . ..that's all it is.
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Honestly, manual controls should give you the control over the direction, trajectory and the power of the pass/shot you WANT to take. Then PES should calculate the direction, trajectory and the power you have given to the input and translate it on the field based on the player stats. There should be a directional guide too in case you know you are doing your part right but it's just the player that doesn't know how to do the killer pass you want him to do.
 
Mehtab said:
Honestly, manual controls should give you the control over the direction, trajectory and the power of the pass/shot you WANT to take. Then PES should calculate the direction, trajectory and the power you have given to the input and translate it on the field based on the player stats. There should be a directional guide too in case you know you are doing your part right but it's just the player that doesn't know how to do the killer pass you want him to do.
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I found that it does perform it by the players stats.
 
I don't want BAL to become the Journey. I didn't like the Journey at all. It is very boring and much too short.

But yes, Bal is utterly broken.

I want a more consequent BAL. A mode where you stay in the team when you play well.

I remember starting a BAL carreer in PES2016. I started with Wigan who were dreadfull but i did very well. In the january tranfer window i got a transfer to Leicester who were last in the EPL at that time. With me in the team they won 8 or 9 consecutive matches. I was MOTM 4 or 5 times and suddenly i became a fringe player. I never started a game again and Leicester plumetted to the bottom of the table and got relegated.
This is not logical.

This year i started a BAL with Metz and after a few matches, something similar happened, i just stopped playing the mode.

IMO it has to do with the point you get at the end of the matches. That is so random (in every mode). 95% of the time your CF gets most points if he scores. This is an insult for people who really like football.
 
Lami said:
Am I the only one who wants BAL to become like The Journey from Fifa (obviously picking whoever we like), or a better version of it? :JAY:
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Nope, not at all. I play BAL much more than any other modes, and I really would like to see it improved. Something like the career mode in nba 2k.
 
or in fact the Road to the Show mode in the MLB show games. single player at its best
 
Deco said:
how could the Ai join in and also play manual?
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If you're playing on manual, you're misplacing passes occasionally. So, make the AI misplace passes too (instead of hitting the ball in the perfect centre every time and always finding the teammate, or at worst, suffering an interception - never a misplaced pass). It's that simple, for me.

I played again last night on manual, because I did enjoy it, and every 25 passes I'll see one that assisted passing would never have let me hit. But if you want the most realistic football experience possible (which I do, even if it means sacrificing the level of fun a bit), I can't look at a stats screen telling me that the opposition had a passing accuracy of 95% (!!!) and think that's right - or fair, when I'm purposefully slashing mine to a ridiculously low level for a top-flight football team.

To me, manual is the opposite of realistic. It's hard - not realistic. It's a handicap (as you say), not a simulation option. In my opinion!

But if assisted passing meant no mishits, and manual introduced totally mishit and misplaced efforts from you AND the AI... I'd sign up.

robbieryan said:
or in fact the Road to the Show mode in the MLB show games. single player at its best
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Tell me more...
 
I used to play on the lowest level of assisted passing, not manual but with the least assist.
In PES2017 i have the feeling that there is no difference between maximum assisted passing and the lowest form of assisted passing. That is perhaps my biggest gripe with PES2017.

If you have everything manual, the stats don't play a role. Then it would make no difference if you play a long pass with the likes of Fabregas, Eriksen (who are obviuously ver good at it) and a fringe player of a second division team. I want to feel the difference between players (which is also the main reason i prefer PES to the other game and i must concede that there is nothing wrong with the other game. My preference is subjective but is very clear).
 
gerd said:
If you have everything manual, the stats don't play a role. Then it would make no difference if you play a long pass with the likes of Fabregas, Eriksen (who are obviuously ver good at it) and a fringe player of a second division team.
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I think this is a key point of the manual debate. Some say the player attributes make a difference - some don't. I don't think there's a definitive answer to this one, because it goes down the same sort of route as "the last patch has made the game 1,000x better" when in reality, nothing changed.

I'm on your side of the fence (I get the same pass success level no matter who I play as), but others who have more manual experience say the opposite. I'm not certain, either way.

I do feel a "snap" where some passes are so locked-on that I couldn't possibly have done it myself, which is how I read someone describing it the other day (it's a great term for it) - but whereas some think that's the players' attributes kicking in, I'd say that's the game giving you a little help because you were very close to perfect aim (because I've had this "snap" occur with all levels of passers).
 
I hated the fact that we, Xbox One owners had to pay the same price as the PS4 owners and got an incomplete game features wise (lack of kits/DB importing). I just hope there will be no such discrepancy between these 2 console versions this year, or, lower price for the version missing features.

Also, i hope they will fix the crosses, sick and tired of people exploiting this like they exploited the through passes in 2016. Besides that, for me PES 2017 was a perfect game since i've had lots of fun playing with friends online.
 
Manual override is true manual as it will go more or less exactly where you point. Saying that on pass assistance 0 v 1 there is a difference. If you have a man square above but slightly behind you on PA 1 if you push up and pass it will go to the receivers feet but on PA0 it will go into the space in front of him
 
hitmanuk said:
Manual override is true manual as it will go more or less exactly where you point. Saying that on pass assistance 0 v 1 there is a difference. If you have a man square above but slightly behind you on PA 1 if you push up and pass it will go to the receivers feet but on PA0 it will go into the space in front of him
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...and i love that! never ever is every pass directly into the feet in real life!
and i love to lay off the ball (a meter short) to my team mate to hammer it directly into the net!

and what fun it brings when playing 1on1 local! when i started to show manual controls to my friends they had some problems getting used to it. the ball was going all over the place sometimes. :D
after a couple of matches they enjoyed the benefits of manual control. not all my friends did, but some.
sometimes this even happens to myself. when i'm getting nervous in front of goal... i spray it like crazy! but i do "like" that too... happens in real life too. at least i can say it was my fault!
 
Actually if you set your passing settings to level 0, it effects how the AI passes the ball. they still make pretty good passes but not as fast and less ping pong. In the other hand if you put your pass settings to level 3 you can see how the AI's passing becomes more quick feet to feet on the floor more like tiki taka.
 
Chris Davies said:
I think this is a key point of the manual debate. Some say the player attributes make a difference - some don't. I don't think there's a definitive answer to this one, because it goes down the same sort of route as "the last patch has made the game 1,000x better" when in reality, nothing changed.

I'm on your side of the fence (I get the same pass success level no matter who I play as), but others who have more manual experience say the opposite. I'm not certain, either way.

I do feel a "snap" where some passes are so locked-on that I couldn't possibly have done it myself, which is how I read someone describing it the other day (it's a great term for it) - but whereas some think that's the players' attributes kicking in, I'd say that's the game giving you a little help because you were very close to perfect aim (because I've had this "snap" occur with all levels of passers).
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You are pretty spot on with the "snap" theory as it's almost impossible to project the true trajectory/direction/power of a pass/shot from the input given by the user due to the physics engine and animation sync issue/delay so the game has a threshold on how much you get it close to another player or the post and then doing what it normally does for the assist settings. Manual isn't as manual as people think it is. It's called perceived control when you think you have more control than what you truly have.
I bet that the threshold bias for the "snap" is what causes pass support to play a role too.
 
Elja said:
Actually if you set your passing settings to level 0, it effects how the AI passes the ball.
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I've had the opposite experience though, Elja. As I've posted in here and the ML thread, I played Marseille in the Europa League and they finished the game with 95% pass accuracy - that's on Professional, with fully manual controls for me.

They even went down to 10 men (first time I've ever seen it and I've played hundreds of games, video in the ML thread), and carried on pinging the ball around (with two in defence because they didn't make any changes).

For that to happen (even with 10 men), I'm pretty certain that the game doesn't make the allowance you say it does... They weren't passing the ball around to be safe - the AI doesn't change the way it plays depending on the scoreline (there is at least a consensus here, I think) or how many men they have on the pitch. They were simply perfect.

There are lots of different things we can't say for certain - even things like whether a patch effects gameplay or not. Which is why it would be really helpful to get a strong denial (or confirmation) from Konami when that happens, because everyone's experience seems to be different...
 
The thing i love about manual is the freedom of play but the AI should have more of manual passing also if that's the setting your playing. Just can't wait to see 2018!
I might be wrong, but the developers that worked on the masterpiece Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2015 could have been moved to the PES project. I doubt Konami let them go. If so PES future is very bright.
 
Chris Davies said:
I've had the opposite experience though, Elja. As I've posted in here and the ML thread, I played Marseille in the Europa League and they finished the game with 95% pass accuracy - that's on Professional, with fully manual controls for me.

They even went down to 10 men (first time I've ever seen it and I've played hundreds of games, video in the ML thread), and carried on pinging the ball around (with two in defence because they didn't make any changes).

For that to happen (even with 10 men), I'm pretty certain that the game doesn't make the allowance you say it does... They weren't passing the ball around to be safe - the AI doesn't change the way it plays depending on the scoreline (there is at least a consensus here, I think) or how many men they have on the pitch. They were simply perfect.

There are lots of different things we can't say for certain - even things like whether a patch effects gameplay or not. Which is why it would be really helpful to get a strong denial (or confirmation) from Konami when that happens, because everyone's experience seems to be different...
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I think that's probably the scripting in master league chris, try it out in exhibition mode.. I've tried various passing assistance level, and I can feel that the AI plays different depending on what level we use. The passing accuracy like I said before is still good ,they don't often make passing errors but on level 0 they don't pass it as quick as on level 1, not as much one touch passing.
 
Mehtab said:
You are pretty spot on with the "snap" theory as it's almost impossible to project the true trajectory/direction/power of a pass/shot from the input given by the user due to the physics engine and animation sync issue/delay so the game has a threshold on how much you get it close to another player or the post and then doing what it normally does for the assist settings. Manual isn't as manual as people think it is. It's called perceived control when you think you have more control than what you truly have.
I bet that the threshold bias for the "snap" is what causes pass support to play a role too.
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I think it was Pes 2014 that was terrible to use on manual, especially the passing . .not only did the ball only trickle a few yards but the more pressure that you put on the pad the more it would bobble and was difficult to control. Sometimes manual doesn't feel like manual as you say or are we just so used to using it now? . .first few times I used manual I couldn't believe how inaccurate my shooting was . .took a while to get it together.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
I might be wrong, but the developers that worked on the masterpiece Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2015 could have been moved to the PES project. I doubt Konami let them go. If so PES future is very bright.
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Tell us more - what are you hoping for? I've no idea what that game is or what could translate into PES...
 
I just can't wait to hear more about shooting, it's one of those things that fixes or breaks the game as a whole for me. I really wanna feel that variety in shooting and scoring.
 
I have to admit that I understand half of things that you guys say about "if you do this and di that...tweak this and tune that, the game plays great!" All I know is that I want that PES 2018 became a game you just pick up and play without needing none of this tweaks. A game that click instantaneously, a game that you say "wow, did you see what the AI just did? Or, when you hit a dip long shot on the crossbar, you jump out of your seat even if you are losing the game, you know?

We are a football tribe.
 
Chris Davies said:
Tell us more - what are you hoping for? I've no idea what that game is or what could translate into PES...
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best baseball game ever made!
real hitting physics system unlike MLB The Shows computer generated system. it's in Japanese but translation is worth it. There's so much positive to say about it. Very deep Game play, animations, fun factor, stats are a big impact, in Pro Yakyuu Spirits baseball. Worth buying a PS3 to play it.

Real NPB Game

Look at the baseball coming out of the pitchers hand, you need to read the spin so you can tell if it's breaking. it's a very deep baseball game. This is on PS3.

I just think that it's no coincidence that 2015 was the last year for Pro Yakyuu Spirits baseball, and 2016 is when PES came back strong.
Pro Yakyuu Spirits developers have to be doing something at Konami, as successful they were it makes sense for Konami to move them to the PES project.
If they did put these developers on PES, we are in for a real treat!

Here's my first half stats, 30min game, regular difficulty, manual game play, with player camera.
Pro_Evolution_Soccer_2017_20170523093516.jpg


final 30min game stats. i got killed playing a high line.
Pro_Evolution_Soccer_2017_20170523122512.jpg
 
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