PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Chris Davies said:
Just to clarify, this is where I've seen "auto" referred to:

LXHCuH3.jpg

SOURCE: Twitter

Definitely sounds like the new shielding is automatic to me!

Personally, I'm fine with it - more control is all well and good, but there's a fine line. Once you have to remember to hold down a shield button so that the opponent doesn't just ceaselessly smash the ball off you every time by holding down "pressure" (and it's very easy to win the ball in PES), I'm of the belief that there's DEFINITELY no harm in it being automatic when it's something so instinctive to any footballer (though it'd be nice if it was linked to the attributes).

Total control sounds like a dream, until it becomes more like landing a plane than telling a bloke to smack his foot into a ball...

For my money, the tactics should be complicated, but the controls definitely shouldn't be. (How kids do tricks in FIFA I'll never know, it's like trying to crack a safe in the middle of a football match. Sod that.)
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Can't agree that it should be auto. For me, that's the worst thing they can do.

- The dispossession/standing tackle is auto now (not talking about X+X. I'm talking about the R2/trap interception they removed from older games. In 17, if you stand close enough to the ball carrier, you player will perform a standing tackle automatically. And this is part of what creates the continuous dispossession mess in the box. They just keep auto dispossessing one another, while none of us know where the ball really is at).

- The first touch is auto now (again, R2 trap. If I put my pad down after a pass, the first touch will happen by itself. No need for cushioning my touch. No need to adjust my run to meet the touch. It'll just snap to player).

- The sliding tackle direction is auto now (you can't choose direction on O tackles).

- The [] and X pressure are auto centering tools (brings player from 25 yards away, to 0 distance to the ball. Homing missiles. No stat consideration/limitation either, as to who is more willing to press from far away, and who is more effective in ball winning).

From 15-17, there are more and more things in the game that's getting decided through locked situations. I no longer feel like I'm under control, or that the game require any of us to make these decisions, decisions that footballers would make. Every touch matters.

In fact, next week I'll upload a video to show why all of this is locked. Everything is a rail. And there will be examples of how much freedom when rails are broken.

But, one thing they can do, is to follow the example of manual/auto feints. So that those who want it auto, will get it auto. Those who want it manual, will get it manual.

In fact, I think this should be the format for all controls.

Defense needs to be way more manual as well. But give whoever wants auto/manual, their own settings. Most of the players in manual leagues are outraged with how everything is predetermined already. Way, waaay too much stuff happens by itself in this game.
 
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IMO the call for manual gameplay has killed PES.
On the one side people want the game to be more and more manual, on the other side they complain about the fact that there are lesser stats (and thus lesser individualism for players).

IMO there is no need for much stats if the game gets more and more manual.

To me the essence of PES is the players' individuality.

I don't want more manual controls. I like some moves to be contextual.

I can understand why people want more manual controls, because then your (= the user who has the controller) skills are more important. To me that is less relevant. I never play online, only play the CPU. Couldn't care less if another player is better than me...as a matter of fact i would be quite happy to be evo-web's worst PES player if it means more individuality for the players.

There is a solution for this dilemma, doing what Gran Turismo used to do: having two separate discs. One for gaming against the computer and one for online (and i wouldn't mind if those controls would be more manual, that makes perfect sense, i don't care about online). That way, everybody would be happy.

Of course this will never happen.
 
vxcmplx said:
Can't agree that it should be auto. For me, that's the worst thing they can do.

- The dispossession/standing tackle is auto now (not talking about X+X. I'm talking about the R2/trap interception they removed from older games. In 17, if you stand close enough to the ball carrier, you player will perform a standing tackle automatically. And this is part of what creates the continuous dispossession mess in the box. They just keep auto dispossessing one another, while none of us know where the ball really is at).

- The first touch is auto now (again, R2 trap. If I put my pad down after a pass, the first touch will happen by itself. No need for cushioning my touch. No need to adjust my run to meet the touch. It'll just snap to player).

- The sliding tackle direction is auto now (you can't choose direction on O tackles).

- The [] and X pressure are auto centering tools (brings player from 25 yards away, to 0 distance to the ball. Homing missiles. No stat consideration/limitation either, as to who is more willing to press from far away, and who is more effective in ball winning).

From 15-17, there are more and more things in the game that's getting decided through locked situations. I no longer feel like I'm under control, or that the game require any of us to make these decisions, decisions that footballers would make. Every touch matters.

In fact, next week I'll upload a video to show why all of this is locked. Everything is a rail. And there will be examples of how much freedom when rails are broken.

But, one thing they can do, is to follow the example of manual/auto feints. So that those who want it auto, will get it auto. Those who want it manual, will get it manual.

In fact, I think this should be the format for all controls.

Defense needs to be way more manual as well. But give whoever wants auto/manual, their own settings. Most of the players in manual leagues are outraged with how everything is predetermined already. Way, waaay too much stuff happens by itself in this game.
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i couldn't of said it better. Way to much AI controlling the game.
Can't wait for the video, hope somebody sends it to Konami.

gerd said:
IMO the call for manual gameplay has killed PES.
On the one side people want the game to be more and more manual, on the other side they complain about the fact that there are lesser stats (and thus lesser individualism for players).

IMO there is no need for much stats if the game gets more and more manual.

To me the essence of PES is the players' individuality.

I don't want more manual controls. I like some moves to be contextual.

I can understand why people want more manual controls, because then your (= the user who has the controller) skills are more important. To me that is less relevant. I never play online, only play the CPU. Couldn't care less if another player is better than me...as a matter of fact i would be quite happy to be evo-web's worst PES player if it means more individuality for the players.
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but we aren't calling for less stats, more stats i say, (like first touch stat) we want manual shielding (example hold R2 to shield) that's stat based because automatic not only takes control from us it brings in more AI scripting crap. I just want this shielding to work when i want it, not when i get it.
 
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gerd said:
IMO the call for manual gameplay has killed PES.
On the one side people want the game to be more and more manual, on the other side they complain about the fact that there are lesser stats (and thus lesser individualism for players).

IMO there is no need for much stats if the game gets more and more manual.

To me the essence of PES is the players' individuality.

I don't want more manual controls. I like some moves to be contextual.

I can understand why people want more manual controls, because then your (= the user who has the controller) skills are more important. To me that is less relevant. I never play online, only play the CPU. Couldn't care less if another player is better than me...as a matter of fact i would be quite happy to be evo-web's worst PES player if it means more individuality for the players.

There is a solution for this dilemma, doing what Gran Turismo used to do: having two separate discs. One for gaming against the computer and one for online (and i wouldn't mind if those controls would be more manual, that makes perfect sense, i don't care about online). That way, everybody would be happy.

Of course this will never happen.
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2 posts I made last year that deals with this subject matter. It's pretty lengthy and comprehensive, so I'll just post the links:

https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/p...discussion-thread.76425/page-117#post-3156624

https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/pes-2017-playstation-xbox-discussion-thread.76425/page-118#post-3156713

Edit: actually, make that 3:

https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/p...discussion-thread.76425/page-335#post-3180180
 
Dangerous territory getting into the manual vs stats debate. I don't want to open a can of worms but I think there's a balance which hasn't been found by either game. If one does, I think it'll be a game changer.

Stats should help or hinder your (semi) manual input imo. A manual option should be available for those that want that. FIFA currently doesn't represent certain stats well enough (moreso in 17) but PES does too much to try and assume what you're doing. I find it infuriating that the CPU decides where i'm trying to pass, it happens all the time.

With shielding, there should be some contextual moments but it should also be able to be triggered but the user. The effectiveness once it's triggered will be determined using stats. So if i trigger shielding with dembele but herrera is in a better position (ie i've timed the shielding badly), dembele's stats may mean he stands a better chance of still shielding. With smaller players, you'd have to make sure you had a better pody position etc if you want to hold off a bigger/stronger player.

If they can find a way to find a balance between both world, the game would be incredible. A mixture of unexpected wow moments without frustration of never being in total control.
 
I think all of the PA settings from 0-3 are cut from the same cloth. They are stat based, or not stat based (shrug). And I think they are all just as bad really.

I like to talk about it as "the snap", as you can learn to make the "snap" kick in, in any setting, and when the snap happens, I'm not sure if stats even matter anymore.


So, this video, would someone like to point out to me, which pass from which player, that stats actually mattered here?

Now, manual is just as bad, if you learn to activate the snap:


It's just harder to activate, but when it kicks in, you do feel the game changing your inputs (or do you all think I'm some kind of manual sharp shooter here? No, that was the snap kicking in and modifying my inputs. From feet to feet to feet to feet. Not any different to me, really)

scholes1 said:
I find it infuriating that the CPU decides where i'm trying to pass, it happens all the time.
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I was thinking of responding to this, but I'm not sure if you mean the same thing or not. I just call it "the snap", and it feels really, really magnetized to me.

I play manual for its expressive gradation (and for its errors), but when the snap happens, you know it's still assisted.

Everyone thinks assistance/correction doesn't exist for manual. Well, it does. It's just the activation zone is smaller.

When the snap happens, do stats still matter? In any setting? I have no idea. It feels like it don't matter. In both videos, players just look like they are sending the same pass, always.
 
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MyClub - PES League is the future money- wise for Konami, and the players there don't care about things like realistic ball physics, they are playing A GAME rather than playing a game trying to replicate real football. People like us, attending forums like this and WENB are the minority, but we feel we are the majority...
 
gerd said:
IMO the call for manual gameplay has killed PES.
On the one side people want the game to be more and more manual, on the other side they complain about the fact that there are lesser stats (and thus lesser individualism for players).

IMO there is no need for much stats if the game gets more and more manual.

To me the essence of PES is the players' individuality.

I don't want more manual controls. I like some moves to be contextual.

I can understand why people want more manual controls, because then your (= the user who has the controller) skills are more important. To me that is less relevant. I never play online, only play the CPU. Couldn't care less if another player is better than me...as a matter of fact i would be quite happy to be evo-web's worst PES player if it means more individuality for the players.

There is a solution for this dilemma, doing what Gran Turismo used to do: having two separate discs. One for gaming against the computer and one for online (and i wouldn't mind if those controls would be more manual, that makes perfect sense, i don't care about online). That way, everybody would be happy.

Of course this will never happen.
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Couldn't agree more. With it being Manual stats won't have as much of an effect as they should have. Every player will start to do the core fundamentals of football the same way.
 
TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal! said:
Couldn't agree more. With it being Manual stats won't have as much of an effect as they should have. Every player will start to do the core fundamentals of football the same way.
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I'm not sure about that .. .I use manual all the time and there is a difference between players. . .I've one player on my team in Ml who is the only one who can hit an accurate long ball. . . only a couple who can head the ball. . .only a couple who can dribble and hold the ball up etc. . they have maintained their individuality. Their stats still shine through.
 
TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal! said:
Couldn't agree more. With it being Manual stats won't have as much of an effect as they should have. Every player will start to do the core fundamentals of football the same way.
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This is only true for manual in the way it's implemented now.

We should have full control over where a pass can go, stats should influence that input. With this in mind, a through pass and normal pass button are still required (i know a lot of manual players don't agree). For example, if i want to play a pass down the left side of a player, I can't use X, because the CPU would rightly assume I want it to feet. The through ball button would become a "pass into space" button. That way, the cpu knows that and can have the right influence using stats. IE, will the pass be executed under pressure, will the power be consistent, will the player need to be balanced, will there be leeway on your input.

To do this, the AI needs to be incredibly smart and make good decisions. I don't know if it's possible and I guess it's similar to semi manual now. But stats don't need to just influence direction, they should influence all the external factors, a couple of which i mentioned. Pressure, fatigue, pitch conditions, ball spin, is the ball under control, body shape, balance etc.

Too often, PES assumes where you want it. routinely missing out players to pass to the person further away, even if the bar hardly went up. There are simialr examples where the trajectory is decided which isn't what i want personally.

I think both games need to to a better job of stats influence.
 
scholes1 said:
This is only true for manual in the way it's implemented now.

We should have full control over where a pass can go, stats should influence that input. With this in mind, a through pass and normal pass button are still required (i know a lot of manual players don't agree). For example, if i want to play a pass down the left side of a player, I can't use X, because the CPU would rightly assume I want it to feet. The through ball button would become a "pass into space" button. That way, the cpu knows that and can have the right influence using stats. IE, will the pass be executed under pressure, will the power be consistent, will the player need to be balanced, will there be leeway on your input.

To do this, the AI needs to be incredibly smart and make good decisions. I don't know if it's possible and I guess it's similar to semi manual now. But stats don't need to just influence direction, they should influence all the external factors, a couple of which i mentioned. Pressure, fatigue, pitch conditions, ball spin, is the ball under control, body shape, balance etc.

Too often, PES assumes where you want it. routinely missing out players to pass to the person further away, even if the bar hardly went up. There are simialr examples where the trajectory is decided which isn't what i want personally.

I think both games need to to a better job of stats influence.
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Good points made.
 
Was hoping they'd bring back custom offline leagues.. Guess thats another year of writing down results on paper.. (Usually have friends over and do draft leagues :D)
 
I hope they remove the homing missile slide tackles that have plagued the game for the past few iterations. All you want to do is cut out a pass by sliding, but instead, you'll defy the laws of physics and fly 10 feet through the air to tackle the opposing player as if he murdered your entire family.
 
Also - give us FOULS. Fouls and a decent master league on the level of 2010 - 2011. As far as I'm concerned they leave the gameplay alone and just fix those two things.
 
koningfrikandel said:
Also - give us FOULS. Fouls and a decent master league on the level of 2010 - 2011. As far as I'm concerned they leave the gameplay alone and just fix those two things.
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I've been playing a lot and what i learned is L1 time tap + making a movement away from challenge gives fouls, free kicks and cards. I play on player camera though it's easier to see challenge.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
I've been playing a lot and what i learned is L1 time tap + making a movement away from challenge gives fouls, free kicks and cards. I play on player camera though it's easier to see challenge.
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Understand what you're saying but that is actually drawing fouls. The "normal" passage of play should give us more fouls. I remember pes 5's fouls pissing me off because there were so many. Now I want them back.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
I've been playing a lot and what i learned is L1 time tap + making a movement away from challenge gives fouls, free kicks and cards. I play on player camera though it's easier to see challenge.
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It's easy to win fouls . . hold R2 and pull back or sideways ..or anticipate a tackle especially a sliding tackle and change direction .. .the tackle has already been committed.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
I've been playing a lot and what i learned is L1 time tap + making a movement away from challenge gives fouls, free kicks and cards. I play on player camera though it's easier to see challenge.
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well said, same here. gotten a lot of freekicks too.
the only thing that bothers me is the obvious penalties not given, and they are pretty much and very obvious.
 
RAMAXWY said:
well said, same here. gotten a lot of freekicks too.
the only thing that bothers me is the obvious penalties not given, and they are pretty much and very obvious.
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yeah, i have seen times where i go to shoot and get hit and no foul called, hopefully with these new animations in 2018 it's a better foul system.

koningfrikandel said:
Understand what you're saying but that is actually drawing fouls. The "normal" passage of play should give us more fouls. I remember pes 5's fouls pissing me off because there were so many. Now I want them back.
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no it's not drawing fouls, it's ball control in traffic, which can lead to fouls if timing is good and AI tries a tackle.

video here shows dribbling by a defender using L1 time tap. Defender fails to get the ball off me.

Full Highlights video if you care to see it.

Sexy! No......not Iniesta the animations.
 
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1)
what means 'dribbling by a defender using L1 time tap' ....? if i use L1 when sprinting by a defender nothing special happpens.

2)
did anyone noticed that there are hughe differenses in turf and lighting between the stadiums? for example the anfield daytime and dortumnund night time ... turf and lightning is perfect. hope pes18 will follow that direction
 
sando said:
1)
what means 'dribbling by a defender using L1 time tap' ....? if i use L1 when sprinting by a defender nothing special happpens.

2)
did anyone noticed that there are hughe differenses in turf and lighting between the stadiums? for example the anfield daytime and dortumnund night time ... turf and lightning is perfect
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you can't use R1 while using L1 only one at a time. It's actually hard to explain.

yeah, i think they improved on every stadium. 2018 will be beautiful stuff.
 
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There is some post processing of course in the trailer. Overall I see merit in the planned improvements but I'll not be jumping on the hype train just yet.
 
Now i get it :D in full trailer they will Will re-create Barcelona vs PSG . This match had an outstanding charge and an emotional end, they would make a "mini movie" for it .
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
you can't use R1 while using L1 only one at a time. It's actually hard to explain.

yeah, i think they improved on every stadium. 2018 will be beautiful stuff.
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thx i will try L1 on its own... do you tab it or hold it?
 
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