PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Bhatti a "blessing for PES"?!

Not in my opinion. PES is still an incredibly basic, barebones and archaic looking/feeling game.

Yet Mr.Bhatti tells us all, every single year, that it's the best thing since sliced bread.

And if you disagree with him or raise the many issues about the game? He blocks you.

And no-one has personally attacked Adam in here, have they?
 
Honestly, Bhatti or no Bhatti, it doesn't matter. I think a lot of us are just sick of the lip service.

This is why I tweeted back to them to focus on the hardcore gamer, and that the hardcore gamer has multiple aspects (gameplay, master league, etc). Filter out the guys in the community that can lead those specific aspects, and tell the PES community about it.

This will bring credibility and a sense of belief. Like if they were to announce that @Chris Davies input would be considered for gameplay, I'd feel instantly hopeful. Or if they announced that @klashman69 focus on tactics would be considered, I'd feel instantly...hopeful again.

It's things like this that I feel would be big steps towards regaining belief in this series, and its direction. Telling us you are all about the hardcore gamer is one thing, but there is nothing with that statement that aligns with my perception of what a hardcore PES gamer is. So it's an empty statement just because I've grown to not trust their perception of the game and how it should be played.
 
In my opinion some of you guys confuse the cause with the effect.

The way I see it, market is pushing towards E-Sports and fast games. That's clearly where money, and even fame (so.. more money) is at right now. So since soccer can fit the case, that's what they're gonna sell/which users and audience they wanna ultimately try to grab a slice of. BUT. There is still a good portion of buyers attached to the old game, to a more slow and simulative game and so on (the most of us). So the result is that they try to make a game good for both those kind of audiences.. and that's where we have our Pes 2018.

This isn't Bhatti's fault. It's not like he has a decisive or big voice about the direction the game should take. He could be too much enthusiastic at times, true, but in the end his job is to sell a game and we all know it.. it's not like he's some kind of trade unionist, representing us fans.. he's gonna hear complains and probably even do what he can about it but that's it, his first job is to advertize the game.

As I said many other times, but I'll repeat once more, the bad of a soccer sim game is that it isn't some kind of rpg, or X-Com, or FPS.. where you can have a kickstarter and fund somebody who's gonna make a good game for the niche that is prone to pay a bit more. I wish it was like this, but it's impossible to happen because a indecent amount of money is needed and licenses can't simply be obtained. So the only soccer games with a desire to be realistics are cannibalized by this two corporations and they'll gonna follow the market first, no matter what.. that's the hard truth and also the reason why at this point I just wish we'd have more customization and a total control of the game mechanics for modders to use and modify.. because where the market is right now, and where it's gonna probably evolve, we'll never have a vanilla Pes 5 anymore.. sorry for the WOT.
 
That's why i've said previously that this e-sport online bullshit thing is the biggest cancer of football games and biggest reason that we'll never have a proper football sim.
All these noobs around the world don't care if the player is sliding on the turf and the animation is cut and doesn't complete naturally,they just want to be able to take super fast turns and change directions even though it looks like the Flash and not a human.They want to pass with incredible accuracy although it looks like ping pong and they want to shoot with every player like he's Roberto Carlos.They don't know shit about real football and maybe don't even watch it and just want easy-to-play pace whoring ''fun'' gameplay.
That's why both games sped up the gameplay once again after the recent updates and they do this every year.Even if they start with a more sim version they'll eventually make it more arcady again in some point through the year.
The sad thing is that even if they manage to produce someday a very realistic sim game with close to life movement and elements,most people won't appreciate it and will start complaining like ''ohh but now i can't dribble so good and fast with Neymar'' ''ohh but now i can't pass and i can't score,ohh change it change it'' goddamn noobs...
So basically people like us who want realism and simulation,will never get it to the point we want because these other people are a bigger money milking cow than us and companies knows that.
But the thing is that football games are based on a real life subject like FOOTBALL so they must be as realistic as it gets.
They're not some fake ass shooter games where you fight aliens in an imaginary hostile planet and you can define gravity,physics etc.
If they don't want to make realistic sim football games because they're affraid they'll lose money maybe they should consider releasing two versions or two exe's or something of their product.One sim and one arcady and let people have what they like.Because it's a total fraud to pay money for something specific,and then through the year because some noobs complained to have that product changed with patches.Happens every single year.This shit must become illegal or something..It's like you pay for a Ferrari and you end up having a Fiat in the end..How is this possible?
Anyway in conclusion i think that if we hadn't this online cancer over our heads,i think that we would already have better and more realistic football games.Not perfect but surely closer to a sim experience.I hope one day they'll take this risk to make football games like they should really be and arcady people will be forced to actually sit and learn how a proper football game should be played and stop whining.Because these statements like ''we want everybody to enjoy and play our game'' it's just not possible.
 
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Konami/EA have no real desire to cater for the full manual/ sim crowd. They know that their scripted and on the rails engine is designed for the manipulation of the online crowd, Which is their top priority.

Sliders in Fifa are still not effective enough and they're getting less and less influential on the gameplay sadly, With every patch after release the game turns into a counter attacking mess that has no resemblance to football.

As for Konami their engine just can't handle loose balls, or creative play despite having all these arrows, pass indicators and off the ball control settings. Full manual and shooting types are less scripted options but are still influenced by the online element which decides outcomes and so on.

What's even more worrying for me is that we're seeing a trend of eliminating essential parts of a football match for the sake of making the game easy to influence IMHO. Stuff like Fouls,Penalties, Keepers coming out, Handballs, Injuries as well as fatigue have all been sacrificed and it has hurt the authenticity.

I would be happy to buy a game of football without a SINGLE license if it plays like it should.
 
Matt10 said:
Like if they were to announce that @Chris Davies input would be considered for gameplay
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God no!
I would instantly stop liking football altogether!

:LOL:

superleeds1 said:
ANYONE comparing cancer to a game clearly has a very limited view of life.

:MAD: :MAD: :MAD:
Click to expand...

Or haven't had any direct relations to cancer. around him. Lucky.

My mother got diagnosed with Cancer last year and that word has gotten a whole new meaning for me ever-since.
 
superleeds1 said:
ANYONE comparing cancer to a game clearly has a very limited view of life.

:MAD: :MAD: :MAD:
Click to expand...
Man seriously now?? I didn't mean it like i'm literally comparing real life cancer illnes to a fucking game wtf!!
It was just a word to describe a bad situation that's all...I could say 'flaw' or something...whatever...
Why so triggered?? I hope it's not for the reason i'm thinking about and i wish you and all your loved ones are healthy as an ox. But don't make assumptions about view of life of someone you don't even know.
 
Chuny said:
God no!
I would instantly stop liking football altogether!

:LOL:



Or haven't had any direct relations to cancer. around him. Lucky.

My mother got diagnosed with Cancer last year and that word has gotten a whole new meaning for me ever-since.
Click to expand...
Like i said in my reply to superleeds1 it was just a phrase to describe a bad situation and i have seen people using it many times to describe something very bad.It's just a word,it doesn't automatically mean that there is any comparing.
It wasn't my intention to make someone sad or bring bad memories.If it did accept my apologies.
 
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shez said:
Konami/EA have no real desire to cater for the full manual/ sim crowd. They know that their scripted and on the rails engine is designed for the manipulation of the online crowd, Which is their top priority.

Sliders in Fifa are still not effective enough and they're getting less and less influential on the gameplay sadly, With every patch after release the game turns into a counter attacking mess that has no resemblance to football.

As for Konami their engine just can't handle loose balls, or creative play despite having all these arrows, pass indicators and off the ball control settings. Full manual and shooting types are less scripted options but are still influenced by the online element which decides outcomes and so on.

What's even more worrying for me is that we're seeing a trend of eliminating essential parts of a football match for the sake of making the game easy to influence IMHO. Stuff like Fouls,Penalties, Keepers coming out, Handballs, Injuries as well as fatigue have all been sacrificed and it has hurt the authenticity.

I would be happy to buy a game of football without a SINGLE license if it plays like it should.
Click to expand...

A post from the heart, i see where your coming from man.

I agree especially on the Penalties, injuries and general incidents ingame.

A 15 minute game on PES 5 took forever, sometimes even half and hour in real world time due to all the fouls, incidents. 15 minutes in PES 2018 feels short, sadly at times halves go buy with very few incidents and the ball going out of play. to sum this issue up, its the exact same core problem which has been in the engine since 2014. Yes, 'Tron Running'.

The game still suffers from lack of a movement gradient from still moves, to jogging, to running then sprinting. If you look at the developments since PES 2014 Konami have left this base the same and built cautiously around over the years focusing on building a huge library of animations and physics.

This 'Tron Running' effect restricts creative play unlike in the PES 2011-2013 games where responsiveness was instantaneous. Obviously PES 2018 has a animations and physics engine which is night and day better than the previous gen but still, it seems Konami have had issues upgrading this fundamental over the last 4 games. I've spoken about the same thing every single year since 2014, repeated this post every year like Groundhog Day. Good thing is like in the film the game has been getting better every time.

This interests me, i have heard about the key developments for PES 2018 early last year the reply was PES 2018 would be a moderate upgrade in all areas enhancing the game to work with PS4 Pro better and upgrading graphical elements. What was also said was PES 2019 would be the game which would see substantial revolutionary changes. For me this would allude to Konami finally addressing this issue and allowing greater freedom in dribbling and movement potential, hopefully finally breaking that 'on rails' tron system.

To understand how core this issue is to the engine, this is the reason why STILL only 2 players can jump for a header because this engine is not 'coded' to handle more than 2 players contesting an air ball. The last generation from PES 1 to 2013 and best shown in PES 2010, you could literally have all 20 outfield players jump up and contest a ball in the air.


I feel as if Konami have enough animations already to finally develop this area. This I think has always been their vision, however they didn't realize just how many animation where needed to actually produce this.
 
shez said:
Konami/EA have no real desire to cater for the full manual/ sim crowd. They know that their scripted and on the rails engine is designed for the manipulation of the online crowd, Which is their top priority.

Sliders in Fifa are still not effective enough and they're getting less and less influential on the gameplay sadly, With every patch after release the game turns into a counter attacking mess that has no resemblance to football.

As for Konami their engine just can't handle loose balls, or creative play despite having all these arrows, pass indicators and off the ball control settings. Full manual and shooting types are less scripted options but are still influenced by the online element which decides outcomes and so on.

What's even more worrying for me is that we're seeing a trend of eliminating essential parts of a football match for the sake of making the game easy to influence IMHO. Stuff like Fouls,Penalties, Keepers coming out, Handballs, Injuries as well as fatigue have all been sacrificed and it has hurt the authenticity.

I would be happy to buy a game of football without a SINGLE license if it plays like it should.
Click to expand...

Correct. Full manual is still on rails. The game is on rails under any setting. I reallly hope for a lose ball system but that's probably just too chaotic to program for them.
 
Dennis_87 said:
Man seriously now?? I didn't mean it like i'm literally comparing real life cancer illnes to a fucking game wtf!!
It was just a word to describe a bad situation that's all...I could say 'flaw' or something...whatever...
Why so triggered?? I hope it's not for the reason i'm thinking about and i wish you and all your loved ones are healthy as an ox. But don't make assumptions about view of life of someone you don't even know.
Click to expand...


Its a foolish way to speak,don't expect to see You ever use it here again.
 
superleeds1 said:
Its a foolish way to speak,don't expect to see You ever use it here again.
Click to expand...
There are nicer ways to tell people if something bothered you so much,not need being so triggered like you know me from yesterday or i did a personal attack on you.
You are the one being foolish acting like it's the first time you heard that word or that i wanted to insult someone.It's just a word and words can describe different things.Grow up.If your reply was polite i would even apologize to you because it wasn't my intention to make someone sad or bring bad memories.
Don't act like an Officer just because you're staff.The world doesn't need any more white knights,we have enough.
 
klashman69 said:
A post from the heart, i see where your coming from man.

I agree especially on the Penalties, injuries and general incidents ingame.

A 15 minute game on PES 5 took forever, sometimes even half and hour in real world time due to all the fouls, incidents. 15 minutes in PES 2018 feels short, sadly at times halves go buy with very few incidents and the ball going out of play. to sum this issue up, its the exact same core problem which has been in the engine since 2014. Yes, 'Tron Running'.

The game still suffers from lack of a movement gradient from still moves, to jogging, to running then sprinting. If you look at the developments since PES 2014 Konami have left this base the same and built cautiously around over the years focusing on building a huge library of animations and physics.

This 'Tron Running' effect restricts creative play unlike in the PES 2011-2013 games where responsiveness was instantaneous. Obviously PES 2018 has a animations and physics engine which is night and day better than the previous gen but still, it seems Konami have had issues upgrading this fundamental over the last 4 games. I've spoken about the same thing every single year since 2014, repeated this post every year like Groundhog Day. Good thing is like in the film the game has been getting better every time.

This interests me, i have heard about the key developments for PES 2018 early last year the reply was PES 2018 would be a moderate upgrade in all areas enhancing the game to work with PS4 Pro better and upgrading graphical elements. What was also said was PES 2019 would be the game which would see substantial revolutionary changes. For me this would allude to Konami finally addressing this issue and allowing greater freedom in dribbling and movement potential, hopefully finally breaking that 'on rails' tron system.

To understand how core this issue is to the engine, this is the reason why STILL only 2 players can jump for a header because this engine is not 'coded' to handle more than 2 players contesting an air ball. The last generation from PES 1 to 2013 and best shown in PES 2010, you could literally have all 20 outfield players jump up and contest a ball in the air.


I feel as if Konami have enough animations already to finally develop this area. This I think has always been their vision, however they didn't realize just how many animation where needed to actually produce this.
Click to expand...
I noticed this with the aerial challenges too... I play 11v11 team play quite a bit and often my big CB will just refuse to jump and make the clearance at the near post despite me mashing the X button if the game has decided a player in the middle is designated to make the challenge... Pretty frustrating.

Dennis_87 said:
There are nicer ways to tell people if something bothered you so much,not need being so triggered like you know me from yesterday or i did a personal attack on you.
You are the one being foolish acting like it's the first time you heard that word or that i wanted to insult someone.It's just a word and words can describe different things.Grow up.If your reply was polite i would even apologize to you because it wasn't my intention to make someone sad or bring bad memories.
Don't act like an Officer just because you're staff.The world doesn't need any more white knights,we have enough.
Click to expand...
I didn't think your use of the word was wrong - it can be used that way e.g. the example here in the Oxford dictionary;
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cancer
"‘gambling is a cancer sweeping across the nation’"

This does not equate to someone trivialising the medical condition by comparing it to gambling, it's just another different but valid usage of the word.
 
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It's a figure of speech and it's largely, generally used by people as said above. Even dictionary at hand is correct as rojofa posted. If this word hurt your sensibility I can say I feel sincerely sorry for you, but the way Dennis used it objectively wasn't disrespectful.
 
Dennis_87 said:
Like i said in my reply to superleeds1 it was just a phrase to describe a bad situation and i have seen people using it many times to describe something very bad.It's just a word,it doesn't automatically mean that there is any comparing.
It wasn't my intention to make someone sad or bring bad memories.If it did accept my apologies.
Click to expand...

Don't worry. I didn't take it personal.
You never know what the people on the other side of the monitor might be going through. So these words are to be avoided. Might be a touchy subject for the guy reading on the other end. It's a strong word for people who have loved ones with that condition or if you have it yourself.
 
klashman69 said:
A post from the heart, i see where your coming from man.

I agree especially on the Penalties, injuries and general incidents ingame.

A 15 minute game on PES 5 took forever, sometimes even half and hour in real world time due to all the fouls, incidents. 15 minutes in PES 2018 feels short, sadly at times halves go buy with very few incidents and the ball going out of play. to sum this issue up, its the exact same core problem which has been in the engine since 2014. Yes, 'Tron Running'.

The game still suffers from lack of a movement gradient from still moves, to jogging, to running then sprinting. If you look at the developments since PES 2014 Konami have left this base the same and built cautiously around over the years focusing on building a huge library of animations and physics.

This 'Tron Running' effect restricts creative play unlike in the PES 2011-2013 games where responsiveness was instantaneous. Obviously PES 2018 has a animations and physics engine which is night and day better than the previous gen but still, it seems Konami have had issues upgrading this fundamental over the last 4 games. I've spoken about the same thing every single year since 2014, repeated this post every year like Groundhog Day. Good thing is like in the film the game has been getting better every time.

This interests me, i have heard about the key developments for PES 2018 early last year the reply was PES 2018 would be a moderate upgrade in all areas enhancing the game to work with PS4 Pro better and upgrading graphical elements. What was also said was PES 2019 would be the game which would see substantial revolutionary changes. For me this would allude to Konami finally addressing this issue and allowing greater freedom in dribbling and movement potential, hopefully finally breaking that 'on rails' tron system.

To understand how core this issue is to the engine, this is the reason why STILL only 2 players can jump for a header because this engine is not 'coded' to handle more than 2 players contesting an air ball. The last generation from PES 1 to 2013 and best shown in PES 2010, you could literally have all 20 outfield players jump up and contest a ball in the air.


I feel as if Konami have enough animations already to finally develop this area. This I think has always been their vision, however they didn't realize just how many animation where needed to actually produce this.
Click to expand...

Spot on, Klash. I think there's something to touch upon here in which PES/FIFA's mentality of Less Time = More Running = More Chances.

That couldn't be further from the truth. If there isn't much time to do anything, then lowering the amount of running off the ball will pull players out of position more. The problem with FIFA and PES is that the runs off the ball are so central. You see center mids sprinting as soon as the ball is passed off. Naturally, a defending player (because there's no sense of a zonal system in these games) will just run with the sprinter. This is the main way space is created in PES and FIFA. Look at most goals scored, I bet you will see at least one animation in which a runner off the ball was being chased, forcing someone out of position.

It's lazy programming like that which nullifies tactics and reduces any sense of the older PES days.

Look here, look at the center mids, how they pass the ball and jog calmly into positions. They show to the ball, they run off the ball, they drop back for the ball. Meanwhile, the defending players left to be mindful of runners off the ball on the flanks, and forwards showing to. This is the natural space that gets created by a product of a zonal defense.

(my livestream from Saturday, so fast forward to gameplay; etc)

In PES 2018 and FIFA they just focus on constantly sprinting up and down the pitch. It makes gameplay hectic and fast and that's what sells right now.

I tweeted to Adam and whoever about how if a game is made to be online, then the offline player will also have to experience this. This is why I made such a fuss about making sure they prioritize adjusting the game for the amount of minutes chosen. Or why it's also such a wish that they would include gameplay customization. Sure, FIFA has it, and sure the code is still the online code, but at least we can get it somewhat CLOSE - and if that could be in for PES 18 somehow, then I'd still be playing it and it wouldn't be collecting dust on my hard drive.
 
So, I have been trying Adv shooting out this week and damn it's hard, I have lost quite a few games because of my inability, I hit the bar from all sorts of angels when shooting. :) Scored a beautiful volley though that had that "old" PES feeling which was nice.

I can't say I see that many different animations etc compared to manual shooting that people claim there is but I hope that will change when I get the hang of the mechanics of it.
 
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Had to switch back from full manual to manual pass and basic shooting.

Always hitting the keeper is mad frustrating and I couldnt win any single game with manual shooting.
Fell down on one of the last places in the premier league.

That gameplay patch, modified camera on professional is the perfect difficulty level.
I have to play very carefully and think about every move I make.
But with manual shooting its too hard.

Basic shooting along with the above named setup feels good and also feels rewarding WHEN I score.

I know, I could try advanced shooting.....maybe one day I‘ll give it a try in training mode.

But my ML is a lot of fun at the moment...I‘m off work this week playing this game every single day.
 
Hi chief saying "manual pass" you mean level 1 assisted pass? I'm trying level 0 passing and prof level but for me it' difficult.
 
No, I mean level 0. Non-assisted.

I love how it looks that way...
Assisted, every pass comes directly to the players feet, except for through balls of course.
I´m very much on visuals :).

But on 0, the passes don´t come exactly to the player...he has to make a few steps to get the ball.
I like it that way.
 
chiefrocka4real said:
Had to switch back from full manual to manual pass and basic shooting.

Always hitting the keeper is mad frustrating and I couldnt win any single game with manual shooting.
Fell down on one of the last places in the premier league.

That gameplay patch, modified camera on professional is the perfect difficulty level.
I have to play very carefully and think about every move I make.
But with manual shooting its too hard.

Basic shooting along with the above named setup feels good and also feels rewarding WHEN I score.

I know, I could try advanced shooting.....maybe one day I‘ll give it a try in training mode.

But my ML is a lot of fun at the moment...I‘m off work this week playing this game every single day.
Click to expand...

I started on Top Player and have since switched to Professional. I find it really balanced in comparison. AI and myself have quite even possession stats/chances and fouls. I leave it on Level 1 passing but have switched to Manual shooting as I didn't like how many shots would miss just wide with the same angle. But as I've said in the past, the light presses of the shoot button get you low driven shots, even on assisted. The power is more determined by position/speed of the player and the relative distance of the ball from his foot.

Has been a bit of work finding a camera angle I really like but last few games have been great battles. Just playing a season as San Lorenzo (I think) in the Argentinean League. But now the Christmas holidays are coming up, I'll do a quick edit of the unlicensed teams and start a master league.

On a side note, I started a MyClub recently and the manager I chose plays with a 4-2-3-1 but I find my striker gets too isolated and wanted to change formation - but you can't do that nor change tactics?? Is that right?
 
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