Gameplay Mechanics of WE/PES

[Adonis]

I dunno about all this tbh.

Im one of the few who in the past didnt believe in this AI bs, but the more recent versions have made me think otherwise.

Saying that though it hasnt really bothered me that much. I still have many of the old PES/WE games (includung ISS Pro 2 on PSX) and have recently tried going back to them. It lasted around 30mins! Elements of recent games have become a main part of the continuation of the series.

For example I tried playing PES3 and found myself getting annoyed with the passing. Holding the X button to pass further doesnt work so it was very frustrating. Then theres the R2 stop/dribble...not happening again. I also found the shooting way too easy. I put on WE7I and the same things apply here.

I guess for me by playing the older versions I realised just how far the WE/PES series has come. Throughout the years people have said once you play the new version you just cant go back. Imo that still applies here. When I play PES5/WE9 straight after watching footy on tv it makes me realise how close it is to the real thing. But perhaps thats the problem? With Konami trying to get closer and closer to the real thing have they taken the fun out of the series?

But I can see how its different for some. Id advise many people who already havent to go back and play the older versions and bring back the negatives and positives they experienced. For example I enjoyed the simplistic gameplay of ISS Pro 2 for a bit, but soon enough it started to get a little boring, and the limited controls made me put the controller down.

Ive enjoyed the PES/WE series loads over the years, and even though Ive not been as excited in recent years when a new version nears the prospect of the game on a next gen console has me buzzin again

 

[RuneEdge]

:roll: See? You did it again. I posted many possible explanations to your interferences but did you acknowledge them in your post? No. And this proves just how narrow minded you are. And when you look at what you DID include in your posts, they're just petty little excuses like "Oh wait a minute, first you call it cheating and now you dont." or "OMG! Your first post ended with a full stop and the last one didnt. HAHAHA YOUR PUNCTUATION IS SOOOO FUNNY LOLZ!" Stop picking out pointless shit and talk about the matter in hand atleast. :roll:

JOIN THE FUCKING CLUB TOOTS! :roll:
That's why I quoted 6 points seperately, just a couple of posts ago. I don't quote half your other shite BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN REPEATING THE SAME SHITE OVER AND OVER AGAIN WHICH I'VE ALREADY REPLIED TO.

This is the crap that I'm talking about. And no you havent replied to all the points I made. I gave you perfect explanations to every situation where you and everyone else here accused the game of interferences. You ignored ALL of that and asked "well why does it only happen in the ML?". Well if you werent so narrow minded with this whole issue then you'll remember that in the ML, fatigue is built up over games which makes matters a lot worse than in exhibition games.
Another thing you have to notice is that if you save before the game, no matter how many times you reload the save, the same match will always be hard for you. And I know this is something many of us agree on. Now everytime you reload the game, the oppositions lineup, tactics, etc can all change. But what is the one thing that always remains constant after every reload? Its the fatigue and form arrows. Which further proves that my explanation makes more sense than "the game interferes".
There might be other reasons for these things, I just gave you two other possible reasons. But the fact that you only want to think that the game cheats when there are many other possible reasons, makes you wrong.
I'm not saying that I'm right with all this. As a matter of fact, I never have. I've just told you that there are so many things to consider that cheating is probably the thing thats least likely to be the reason. And on top of that, I've gave you the only facts from this discussion and thats quotes from Seabass himself.

No, you didn't want this to get ugly. You just couldn't accept my opinion earlier on, so you accused me of saying I don't give a toss what anyone else thinks and said accepting other people's opinions won't change was totally pointless, and you just couldn't let it go. Your overall tone throughout this thread has been nothing but condescending, you seem to think you are some divine WE/PES prophet who's knowledge engulfs the world, and we should all get on our knees and kiss your arse. You PM'd me and I asked you to keep it in the thread, because it's frustrating enough having to repeat myself for the millionth time in here nevermind doing it over two methods of communication.

Again, another point you made that has nothing to do with the discussion. :roll: I dont care how my posts sound to you. Whether I sound too arrogant with what know about the game or whatever is nothing to do with the discussion but rather a personal problem you have with me. Shit like this doesnt belong in this thread cuz its go nothing to do with the discussion. Hence the reason why I PMed you a while back. Cuz I dont want to waste other peoples time when they have to read crap like this cuz no one wants to read it. This is just something thats more personal so leave it out of this thread.

No, you then quoted a piece where I'd said in my experience the hard games were hard because my own team were affected, and that the AI side actually didn't play any better. You haven't read it properly or you are just incredibly ignorant, because you've quoted my opinion on why certain games are hard and then asked me why AI teams playing better is considered as me playing shite. I never said the AI teams played better, you did, so why are you quoting that? :eh:

You've completely lost me with this one. And not being able to find the original post that we quoted doesnt help either. But if it pleases you, I'll just nod my head and say you were right here. :roll:

Is that...is it...is it some semblance of acceptance that folk can...they can have different opinions? :shock: :shock: :shock: FUCK ME IT JUST MIGHT BE!

There's a large section you posted here on arrows, form, consistency, etc. I'm afraid you've wasted your time, I and other people have stated they know how these things work and HAVE ALREADY FUCKING EXPLAINED THAT THEY WERE ALSO IN THE OLD VERSIONS OF THE GAME, THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE AN AFFECT ON IN OUR OPINION! Not to mention, I've seen players with red form arrows exibit these traits, like the weird shooting and AI headers into your own goal.

The more you post, the more you sound like you're making up lies to favour you. What are the chances of you actually going into the formation screen and checking everyones arrows and fatigue levels straight after a "incident"?
You could have atleast just held up your hands and said "Hey, maybe I didnt consider the arrows and stuff. I guess you could be right but I'll stick with my opinion until I see the arrows and fatigue myself". Stop coming up with stories about personal experiences cuz theres no way we can see them. You could say whatever you want and we'll just have to sit here and agree. Everytime I make a post, I dont do this (well I did just once but it wasnt an important point) cuz I know its something that not everyone can believe unless they saw it.
I could have told you that I just played the game for a 100 hours straight and I didnt experience any changes in difficulty or any interferences. Now by saying that, my post is as valid as all your posts. But are you gonna believe me? Regardless of whether its the truth or not, its something thats not worth saying cuz I cant prove it and it also gives be an artificial arguement meaning it can very easily be a lie.

If these are bugs, why do they only happen in the games that the AI makes tough for you to win, why don't they happen in the games that the AI favours your team?

*Waits for RuneEdge to accuse me of only pressing the wrong buttons in the hard games*

*Laughs*

Well if the bugs did stop the CPU from playing, how would you know? As far as we know, it might be happening all the time. But is the PS2 gonna log into Evo-Web like you and moan about it? :roll:

*realises that 3rd person text isnt funny*

*Cries*

You've already admitted the AI has preset difficulties for different games! It's not a question of reading someone's mind, it's coded into the fucking game that 'Match X' will be tough and 'Match Y' will be a breeze!

So have you seen the coding of the game? Cuz if you havent, how can you come up with something as dumb as that. Saying the game has bias is one thing but now claiming you know how its coded is just too funny. What a joke.

What, like you did?

"Its a simple sign of the CPU doing everything with maximum accuracy which I personally call "cheating" since it only happens in games and moments that are convenient for the CPU."

Hypocrite. :applause:

I just gave it a name "cheating". Its nothing like the cheating you say the game does. :roll:
Maybe a better word to use would have been "cheap". If I played you in a match of PES5, and you were a much better player than me (ie being able to dribble past my whole team using skill you've mastered with hours of training, or being able to score goals from every freekick you take within the 30m radius), of course I'm gonna call it cheap or cheating or something. Cuz your skill would be so great that it leaves me with no choice but t accept my defeat every time without being able to do anything about it. But its doesnt mean you're technically cheating.
Now whenever I say the game cheats, its exactly the same thing. One minute the game is normal, the next minute, they'll have a corner and will score the perfect header or volley. Cheating is just a word I used, it doesnt mean they are actually cheating in the sense you say it is.
This is just one of the many examples of you not understanding me.

RuneEdge, if, and remember this is just an 'if', Seabass came up to you and slapped you in the face with a rubber glove, that he'd just dipped in poo and used to write on the wall "The AI interferes." in 20-foot high letters, you'd probably tell us all he didn't really mean it, his wife spiked his saki an hour earlier and he was just a little crazy right now. You could explain anything, you have been clutching at straws the whole thread.

I'm only believing the only person you CAN believe. You on the other hand are making things up to explain things that you dont like about the game. If Seabass came out and said himself that the game interferes then there wouldnt a discussion since its something thats confirmed.
But you have completely made up the whole idea of cheating. You might have experienced moments in the game where its just not possible to explain why the CPU might have gained an advantage. But unless you know for a FACT that its cheating, what you're claiming is just an assumption. I on the other hand have gave you possible explanations to the same situations with reasons that we know are TRUE. Not something that I made up. As a matter of fact, has anything in my posts been made up? No. I just used the information that we all KNOW and used it to explain as much of the game as possible.
So who is wrong here, thats right its YOU. It doesnt matter if Seabass came out tomorrow and said "ClassicD is right, the game does interfere". Cuz thats not whats wrong. The reason why you're wrong is because you're too narrow minded and dont want to agree that there are other possible explanations to this that are more valid than your made up accusation of the CPU interfering. Since I have looked at all possible answers, I can also accept it if the game in fact did interfere. But you probably still wont accept it if Seabass came out and told you personally that you were wrong.
Its just like the theory that we evolved from monkeys. Theres a lot of true facts involved and it all makes sense. But the whole idea is not a proven fact. Its the same with what I'm saying. Whether we're right or wrong on this matter stil remains to be proved but the way you're so determined to only believe in what you think is the truth is where you are wrong. Even though my idea is just an opinion, it makes more sense than than "the game interferes". Notice how its always been you asking the questions while I'm answering them? You have nothing you back your case.
With that said, I think this pretty much concludes this discussion. Hopefully we wont have to drag this along any further.

 

[ClassicD]

Ok, I think I'm pretty much quoted out, I can't be arsed. So I'll just summarise my opinions, which I hope you'll understand are not going to change no matter how many times you give 'explanations' or 'proof'. Cheers:

I believe the "interferences", "hard games", "bugs" and "wrong button presses" are not the result of fatigue, form arrows, or consistency. I don't doubt these things are there for a reason and have an effect, but I don't believe they're the reason.

Hopefully, you'll accept that this is just an opinion, whether you agree with it or not.

 

[ClassicD]

Ive enjoyed the PES/WE series loads over the years, and even though Ive not been as excited in recent years when a new version nears the prospect of the game on a next gen console has me buzzin again

Think you're spot on, the game has reached a plateau on this generation and maybe that's the problem.

 

[RuneEdge]

If thats how you feel then that thats ok but you have to remember that this whole thing started the moment you said that my opinion was wrong...

 

[ClassicD]

I still believe your opinion is wrong, but I had the decency to state that and say let's agree to disagree, which you couldn't do. Can we move on from this now?

 

[RuneEdge]

I still believe your opinion is wrong, but I had the decency to state that and say let's agree to disagree, which you couldn't do. Can we move on from this now?

But I've been explaining throughout this thread that my opinion has more truth in it or makes more sense than yours. So if you knew that what you believe in is only an opinion, why is it that you still believe in what you're saying and disagree with what I'm saying?
This is why I feel you're disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. But not because you honestly feel what you said was right.

 

[ClassicD]

But I've been explaining throughout this thread that my opinion has more truth in it or makes more sense than yours. So if you knew that what you believe in is only an opinion, why is it that you still believe in what you're saying and disagree with what I'm saying?
This is why I feel you're disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. But not because you honestly feel what you said was right.

You are again getting back into the who is right and who is wrong discussion. My opinion is different to your's. You believe your's is the correct view, I believe mine is. It's not rocket science.

 

[RuneEdge]

You are again getting back into the who is right and who is wrong discussion. My opinion is different to your's. You believe your's is the correct view, I believe mine is. It's not rocket science.

WTF!?!? In your last post you just said this:

I still believe your opinion is wrong, but I had the decency to state that and say let's agree to disagree, which you couldn't do. Can we move on from this now?

First it started with you saying I'm wrong, then after the long discussion you gave up cuz I explained perfectly that you were being narrow minded, then you start it again by saying I'm still wrong and now you say its not about being right or wrong?
I honestly give up. This proves you're just trying to leave with the last word regardless of how dumb it is. :roll:

You know what? I'll make this easy for you. Right after you've finished reading this (if thats what you are doing cuz you havent shown any evidence that you read other posts), quote this post, and then reply with really smartass comment that contradicts what you've just said, then I wont post anything after it so then it looks as though you got the last laugh. Cuz thats what you want, right?

Ok. So remember, it must be a smartass comment. Try and make it as funny as possible.

Ready?...GO!

 

[djdoc]

Proof that the AI Intereferes? One minute your players play well, passing is good movement is decent and things look good..... next thing you know your players play like complete retards, the ball is no longer under control it bounces off of them straight to a cpu player who then runs past you at a speed of light! CPU player pulls your attacker down.... no free kick.... no booking.... nothing.... Your player does the same thing..... CPU Player goes down and usually a booking but I had a player sent off for the softest of touches last night.... AGGHHHHHHH

DJ

 

[RuneEdge]

Proof that the AI Intereferes? One minute your players play well, passing is good movement is decent and things look good..... next thing you know your players play like complete retards, the ball is no longer under control it bounces off of them straight to a cpu player who then runs past you at a speed of light! CPU player pulls your attacker down.... no free kick.... no booking.... nothing.... Your player does the same thing..... CPU Player goes down and usually a booking but I had a player sent off for the softest of touches last night.... AGGHHHHHHH
DJ

I explained most of that in the thread.

 

[ClassicD]

WTF!?!? In your last post you just said this:

First it started with you saying I'm wrong, then after the long discussion you gave up cuz I explained perfectly that you were being narrow minded, then you start it again by saying I'm still wrong and now you say its not about being right or wrong?
I honestly give up. This proves you're just trying to leave with the last word regardless of how dumb it is. :roll:

You know what? I'll make this easy for you. Right after you've finished reading this (if thats what you are doing cuz you havent shown any evidence that you read other posts), quote this post, and then reply with really smartass comment that contradicts what you've just said, then I wont post anything after it so then it looks as though you got the last laugh. Cuz thats what you want, right?

Ok. So remember, it must be a smartass comment. Try and make it as funny as possible.

Ready?...GO!

There was no contradictive post, I said you were getting back into the DISCUSSION, you know the one we've just had for pages and pages? You are trying to get a definitive answer on the whole matter, you are incapable of accepting that I think you're wrong. And although I do think you're wrong, I can see that it's your opinion and am attempting to defuse the situation by respecting that it's still your opinion, regardless of what I think of it.

Last word? Listen to yourself! Apparently I "gave up". Were we playing a game? It certainly seems that way from your point of view.

You are either at the wind up, or you are a child.

Dave, please don't even begin with this guy, read over the past few pages (I don't blame anyone who hasn't bothered), and then see how you feel. Myself and at least 2 other people have told him he's going round in circles, that his explanations don't cover every aspect or every situation, but he stands by them. That's fair enough, what's not acceptable is his refusal to allow other people an opinion unless it's the same as his.

 

[ronaldo10]

i totaly agree with u classicd

 

[RuneEdge]

First of all, how can you say that I'm wrong but its my opinion? If its a matter of opinion, theres no right or wrong. If its a matter of fact then I think I'm the only one presenting facts in this thread. All you've done is said "I saw this happen" and "I saw that happen".
And you say I havent covered every aspect or situation, well tell me one that I didnt explain. I covered everything that was said in this thread.

There was no contradictive post, I said you were getting back into the DISCUSSION, you know the one we've just had for pages and pages? You are trying to get a definitive answer on the whole matter, you are incapable of accepting that I think you're wrong. And although I do think you're wrong, I can see that it's your opinion and am attempting to defuse the situation by respecting that it's still your opinion, regardless of what I think of it.

Well I think YOUR opinion is wrong. The only difference here is that I'm telling you why you're wrong and you dont want to know. And if that was the case, why make a thread? I thought this was a place for discussion. If you didnt care about why your opinion might be wrong, you might as well have done a poll to see how many people agree or disagree. If you dont like it then its only your fault. Now that you created this monster, you better deal with it. Especially since you started the whole thing by telling me I'm wrong and then getting upset when I told you the same thing.

Last word? Listen to yourself! Apparently I "gave up". Were we playing a game? It certainly seems that way from your point of view.

Well after I made this post:
http://www.evo-web.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=647868&postcount=92
You replied with this:

Ok, I think I'm pretty much quoted out, I can't be arsed.

Well its pretty obvious that you CAN be arsed cuz you're still here saying the same stuff. But by saying that line regardless of whether you're really bothered, you basically "gave up".
And by doing that, you were able to avoid replying to my post cuz you've got no answers. Its kind of a cheap way to dodge a bullet, isnt it?

If we're ever gonna come to a conclusion, I suggest we forget the BS that has been said and lets start again. This time we make it simple and easy to understand. I've said the same things again and again but you've ignored all of it. If you dont understand something, you just ask like how I did with one of your examples. This also means I dont want to read crap like "WTF dude, that makes no sense at all" or "Are you bonkers, mate?" or whatever. I've avoided so much here and its kind of annoying.

I'm gonna make this REALLY easy this time. In my next post, I'll make a set of points. All you have to do is tell me why each of them is wrong. Not ONE of them, ALL of them. So this time you cant chicken out like you have been doing everytime an important question is asked.
So ignore what has been said by the both of us. I'll explain everything one more time in one post. And we'll take it from there. If you have a problem with THIS post, just forget it. Dont bother quoting this.
The discussion begins after the next post.

If you dont agree to this, you're basically accepting defeat in this debate cuz you truely feel that you're right, what have you got to lose, huh?

THIS IS THE END OF THAT CHAPTER

 

[RuneEdge]

OK, I'm gonna keep this clean and I'm hoping you do this in the same manner.

For every incident you have said that there are interferences, here is how I explain ALL of them.

Reason 1. The stats could have been reduced by form and fatigue. And I explained perfectly well how low your stats can drop for even world class players. (dont make me quote it cuz you know what I mean) This perfectly explains how you can have many chances in one game but not the other. In one game, your form and fatigue could have made your players perform badly but in other games, it might be the other way round. So if you ever get many chances in one game but not in another, this is probably the answer why it happened. And it makes perfect sense.

Reason 2. It could have been a simple bug in the game. And we know there are many such as the ref carding someone after an offside. Or when players faint as if they just got shot and then they suddenly jump up like nothing happened (there are many videos of this). Sometimes if you cant control you player or you player suddenly starts running really slowly, this can also be because of a simple bug. There are many clear bugs in the game so one of your examples can easily be one of them.

Reason 3. The game might not have understood what you wanted to do so it assumed you wanted a certain command when you really meant something else. And example of this was when you want to pass to a certain player but theres another team mate very close to him in the same direction. In situations like this, the game wouldnt know who to pass to. I suggested that you try hold the pass button to control where it goes. And I also explained that this is one of the reasons why this game has more control than in previous games.
Another example of this is when you said the game wont let you reach loose balls before the CPU who is a lot further away. Now I've seen this happen outside the ML too so you cant call it a ML problem. My explanation to this is that the game doesnt know that you want to run after the ball so it gives you a more manual control (like the sort of control you get when super cancelling). Now if your player had a locked on target like the loose ball or when your defender is applying pressure to an attacker, the game normally assists you by making your player run directly towards its target. Now your obvious problem is that it didnt do that. But a simple bug can cause the game to not know you want to run after the ball so your player is no longer locking onto the loose ball, meaning you cant run fast after it like you normally would. Theres so much for the game to do internally that it could easily not know you wanted to run after the ball.

Those are my three main reasons but I know you'll have more to say about this.

One major point you can make (or have made) against this is that why does it only happen in the ML. Well I have a few things to say to that.
First of all, everyone here agrees that when you come across one of those games where you cant win, no matter how many times you reload the save, it still seems to be difficult to beat that same opponent. Well after every reload, your opponents formation, line up, substitutions, etc can all change. The only thing that remains constant is your players form arrows and built up fatigue level. Now if your form and fatigue is the cause of the problems, it only makes sense that you find it difficult after every reload of your save file since the form and fatigue is still the same. Make sense? It should do.
Something else worth noting is that lets assume for a moment that you're right and the game truely does cheat. You believe that the game picks a side and favours them, right? And we all also agree that when you save the ML file, reloading the file doesnt change anything. So that means if you are right, the data where the game picked who to favour must also be inside your memory card file or your save data somewhere. Now people have already hacked memory card files many times. People have also hacked the ML to the point where its possible to control player development growth, control age increases, control your funds, etc. Why hasnt anyone found out about the game apparently cheating? Surely it would have been discovered and exploited by now.

Another point is when you asked "why does it keep happening in the ML at convenient times?" Well if the ML was such a problem for you, why are exhibition matches bothering you? You cant use the arguement of why does it only happen in ML games when you also said it happens in exhibition games too.

So when you ask yourself, just why is the game more difficult, my explanation was that the game increases its AI whenever it thinks it needs to do so. Not by cheating but by making perfect tackles, doing making dribbles, inch perfect shots, etc. Of course theres some cheating in the form of giving away fouls and cards but none of this is the result of directly controling you, which is what you're accusing the game of.

Your last point is that why doesnt this happen in PES3 and 4. Well first of all, those games might not have bugs. If one game had them, it doesnt mean they all do. Secondly, those games are older than PES5 so their AI is a lot less advanced. Which means my Reason number 3 (as explained above) would apply here too. And my final point is that when I played previous games, I still experienced those increases in difficulty like I explained in the paragraph above this. Now you might choose to not believe me when I say this I can only tell you that I'm being 100% honest about this and that this claim is as good as all of yours have been. So since I believed you to some extent, you can only believe me too.

Now I'm not saying those are THE definate reasons why these things happen cuz I dont know but neither do you when you say the game cheats cuz no one has CONFIRMED this to you. How can you disagree with my opinion when it makes as much sense, if not more sense than your view? Have you got anything to back your case that the game cheats? Other than the examples above, are there any other incidents that cant be explained (and if you do, you obviously must give me the chance to do so otherwise its pointless mentioning them)?
I gave you proof in the form of quotes from Seabass to prove that what I'm saying isnt a lie. So far, I've been giving all the answers. Now I turn the tables on YOU. Have you got any form of proof to prove that what you saw was indeed the result of cheating?
Read every point I made here and you'll realise that theres no BS writen here. Its all been confirmed on many occasions which is why I believe it.

 

[RuneEdge]

Now in your reply, explain why all of it is wrong. Dont single out one error and then brag that you proved me wrong. Explain why ALL of it is wrong. My post is broken up into paragraphs so instead of quoting the whole thing, you could just tell everyone what part you are refering to.
If you stick to these rules, this thread will stay clean and the conversation will be more understandable and easier for the rest of the people here to pick a side to agree with.

 

[ClassicD]

Hold on, you want to start again?

Er, no. I think I'll pass.

You win, everyone else is talking shite, and you're 100% correct.

 

[RuneEdge]

Hold on, you want to start again?

Er, no. I think I'll pass.

Just like how you've always done, you avoided the questions at convenient times. You're worse that the game. :roll:

Cant you answer anything thats been said in my post? If you can then do it for the sake of putting an end to this.

 

[ClassicD]

Tried putting an end to it twice, regardless of opinion, didn't work.

What happened to me having the last word btw?

 

[RuneEdge]

You're still doing it. Being childish at the right time.
How can you even sleep after being such a chicken?
Just at the last moment when I wanted things to settle down a little so the matter can be discussed normally, you dont want to.

Its a very simple question. You dont need to be sarcastic or anything. Just be honest. Cant you reply to my post?

 

[ClassicD]

Can I have the last word?

 

[RuneEdge]

Can I have the last word?

So you want to take this as a joke then?

 

[ClassicD]

That'll be a no then.

:lol:

 

[Chris Davies]

Whilst I completely agree with Classic 110% as always, I can never go back to playing the older versions. Quite honestly I don't know the completeness of what it is (I'm not a graphics whore and I don't care if Rooney is still at Everton), but after playing WE9, the game that started my love-affair with the series (WE6FE) just seems miles away.

I do think, however, WE9 could have been a lot, lot better by having the WE6FE gameplay engine and inserting the features of WE9 that I can't live without (for example, the advantage, the side-steps and now the low-shots), and ditching all the crap that doesn't need to be there, such as the way that a player can take SUCH a long time to do what you've told him to do - which is multiplied when combined with online lag.

I think the series has come on leaps and bounds, but it's accumulated a lot of needless and annoying glitches along the way. As Classic said though, whether they take these out for WE10 remains to be seen. I mean, the way that Seabass almost laughs off the idea of featuring real-league systems and abandoning the master league says to me that they're not aiming to make the super-realistic game that we all play it for. I have a horrible feeling that one day WE will become a poor man's FIFA, just to compete against FIFA. But, we'll see soon enough, I suppose.

 

[Adonis]

That'll be a no then.

:lol:

:lol:

 

[RuneEdge]

That'll be a no then.

:lol:

Have nothing to say? Been proved wrong? So you're gonna walk away from this debate like a chicken?
Ok. If thats how you want to do this then its fine by me.
You could have just said so and that would have been the end of that.

But now you just lost some respect there by acting like a 8 year old. :roll:

 

[ClassicD]

Whilst I completely agree with Classic 110% as always, I can never go back to playing the older versions. Quite honestly I don't know the completeness of what it is (I'm not a graphics whore and I don't care if Rooney is still at Everton), but after playing WE9, the game that started my love-affair with the series (WE6FE) just seems miles away.

I do think, however, WE9 could have been a lot, lot better by having the WE6FE gameplay engine and inserting the features of WE9 that I can't live without (for example, the advantage, the side-steps and now the low-shots), and ditching all the crap that doesn't need to be there, such as the way that a player can take SUCH a long time to do what you've told him to do - which is multiplied when combined with online lag.

I think the series has come on leaps and bounds, but it's accumulated a lot of needless and annoying glitches along the way. As Classic said though, whether they take these out for WE10 remains to be seen. I mean, the way that Seabass almost laughs off the idea of featuring real-league systems and abandoning the master league says to me that they're not aiming to make the super-realistic game that we all play it for. I have a horrible feeling that one day WE will become a poor man's FIFA, just to compete against FIFA. But, we'll see soon enough, I suppose.

I'd have to agree with this, Adonis made a similar point earlier that although PES5/WE9 has some problems it also has advantages over older versions. That said, the most well-balanced version on PS2 IMO, is probably WE8LE.

From the supposed feature list of WE10 (though it may be nothing but rumour), they've noticed a lack of responsiveness in WE9 and it's been tweaked for the next game. That I assume is the delay between issuing a command and seeing it executed, that you refer to.

After thinking about a point made by Adonis earlier, that the last few versions haven't had the same excitement factor whilst you waited on their release, I had a look for the number of versions we've had on PS2 compared to PS1:

PS1

* Winning Eleven J-League
* Winning Eleven J-League 97 (or Goal Storm 97)
* Winning Eleven 3 (or ISS 98 )
* Winning Eleven 3 Final
* Winning Eleven 4
* Winning Eleven 2000 U-23
* Winning Eleven 2002


PlayStation 2

* Winning Eleven 5
* Winning Eleven 5 J-League
* Winning Eleven 5 Final Evolution
* Winning Eleven 6
* Winning Eleven 6 J-League
* Winning Eleven 6 Final Evolution
* Winning Eleven 6 International
* Winning Eleven 7
* Winning Eleven 7 International
* Winning Eleven 8
* Winning Eleven 8 J-League
* Winning Eleven 8 K-League
* Winning Eleven 8 International
* Winning Eleven 8 Tactics European Club
* Winning Eleven 8 Tactics J-League
* Winning Eleven 8 LiveWare Evolution
* Winning Eleven 9
* Winning Eleven 9 International

Now I know there are sort of multiple versions in there, but still! No wonder it feels like the series is stagnating a bit! :shock:

P.S. Rune, it'd be "an 8 year old".

 

[Milanista]

You're missing Winning Eleven (1996), which was awful. I think its the only one of the WE games to differ from the other Sony releases. It does however bring back memories, since it was my first sports game on the PSX (It was included with the machine when I bought it in Tokyo).

 

[ClassicD]

Why was it different, not the same game engine? Did the same guys make it (KCET/KTYO)? Definitely doesn't look like it:

 

[Adonis]

You're missing Winning Eleven (1996), which was awful. I think its the only one of the WE games to differ from the other Sony releases. It does however bring back memories, since it was my first sports game on the PSX (It was included with the machine when I bought it in Tokyo).

do you mean the very first version equivalent of ISS Pro? If not I have to find this game! Cant believe theres a version I dont know about!

That list you pulled up ClassicD does tell its own story, but I dont think thats the reason why the excitement isnt there any more.

Personally, the last title I couldnt wait for was WE8. I remember when all the details were shown on it. The graphics looked amazing, and the prospect of having the whole Italian, Dutch and Spanish leagues licensed was unbelievable. There was also a big gameplay shift, which to be fair has always been apparent with every proper sequel.

WE9 didnt excite me as much due to the lack of graphical improvements. I know it sounds a bit shallow, but when you see scans of the new game looking very close to the previous version it sort of loses its 'wow' factor. Obviously once playing it I realised how different it really was, but you cant tell that by looking at magazine scans a few months before release

After some thought I realised that there are two main reasons why I dont have the same buzz for the series anymore. First off is because Im older, working full time and have less time to play games. Sounds a but strange seeing as I work in games store, but true nonetheless.

Secondly its the fact that I feel the PS2 hardware is a spent force. I believe Konami have pretty much got what they can out of the little box. Thats mainly why I cant wait for the next gen version