ENGLAND thread

Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

matherto said:
He was very good for Birmingham though, to clear the 'mediocre defensive unit' part of that.
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I was thinking that after I typed, but I think that may have came down to a "first season syndrome" style thing.. Me and my mates have discussed this in school, do many young(ish) players come into the prem and have one good season but from then on become a bit more average.. Ben Foster was the same when he got a chance at Birmingham if you think about it.
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

gerd said:
I've been saying for ages that Hart is not as good as most English people think. Very average GK.
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Agree with that. Well not average, he's good but the media seem to think of him as either one of the best or the outright best keeper in the world. :LOL:
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

Metallica said:
Hart is a great keeper, he had a massive part in Man City winning the league last season, he made some really important saves through out the course. If he had got injured at some point I doubt City would have won the league.
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MCity won because MUTD drew too many !:P
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

he's a great natural talent, but it looks like he got no education at all, wich explains his poor technique.
just to mention the first of his flaws that springs into my mind, he never makes any sidesteps at all. it's like he's unaware of the very concept of sidesteps. he just dives into the savings every time, without making any adjustments with his feet.
that's about the first thing they teach u when you're a kid joining an academy (or any football school really)to become a keeper. "kids, never stand still on your feet... always keep moving, by making small sidesteps to adjust your position to the current position of the ball and to decrease your response-time when u eventually need to dive. ideally u wanna avoid to dive at all, whenever u can"..... this really is kids stuff. the crazy thing is that hart is actually so much naturally talented that somehow manages to make up for his (very) poor technique.

he's a very good keeper, probably above average, but he's not great.... and without a proper education and training, he probably won't ever be a truly great keeper.
great keepers dive as little as possible, whereas hart always dives, and there's just no getting around this fact (and that's just one of his quirks).
to be honest though i really like him, and i certainly believe the gk position is the last of england's problems right now (infact i wouldn't consider it a problem at all). :))
 
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Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

Hart has one quality that lots of more talented keepers don't have - complete and utter belief in himself. It's arguably more important that good technique/ footwork and so forth.

Ben Foster is an immensely talented goalkeeper, but a single mistake and he falls apart. Joe Hart makes mistakes every match but just smiles his cheeky smile and gets on with it. Hart made at least as many mistakes if not more than De Gea last season, but all we ever hear in the press is about how shaky the Spaniard is and world class Hart is.

Confidence goes a very, very long way in goalkeeping (and striking, incidentally)

As for the match - I thought England did well all considering. For those saying they weren't very adventurous - I didn't think the French were either really. The number of times that not a single French player was in line with the English defence was uncountable - with Benzema frequently dropping into the gap between the 2 lines leaving no up front whatsoever.

France basically tiki-taka'd it outside the final third for half the match, which suited both sides I think. France got to say 'look we played good football and had possession and didn't lose' and England got to say 'looked we contained, did what we planned and didn't lose'.
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

beachryan said:
Hart has one quality that lots of more talented keepers don't have - complete and utter belief in himself. It's arguably more important that good technique/ footwork and so forth.
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it may be as important as technique, but not more important. for every position, technique is really a basic substrate to become a football player. it's like reading and writing... u might well be a genius, but u won't go that far without someone teaching u how to read and write.
u can become a good keeper with great technique and a self conscious attitude. u might also become a good keeper with a poor technique and a strong confident mindset.
but in order to become a great keeper, u simply need both.

as for the game i kind of agree with u. besides it's not like either teams needed a win. what both teams really needed was the other team not to win (and get 3 points, as that would have made the 3rd match much more complicated for the losing side). a draw was in the cards, as both teams will really play for their qualifications against the other 2 teams (sweden and ukraine).
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

In order to build a decent team, you HAVE to get the foundations settled.
Do not concede, hold a firm back line, sort things out defensively.

Then... and only then... can you start to build the confidence that comes with winning and drawing games - certainly not losing - then you can start to develop a license to play some more creative, attacking football.

This England 'team' - under Hodgson anyway - has had, what, 10-12 training sessions? 3 matches?
There were only 3 players on show yesterday - Gerrard, Terry, Cole - with Championships experience and it showed with a nervy start and some edgy mistakes during the basics; control, short passing, final ball.

We have to play to our strengths.
We cannot bow to a European desire for pretty passing, intricate skills or slow build up if it's not in our make up.
For too long we have not played to our strengths and tried to adapt to the opposition.
Hodgson is the type of manager that will say to his players 'this is how we're going to set up, we're going to defend solidly and we're gonna counter with pace and flair... let the opposition deal with US'.

Our domestic clubs have had great success in Europe over the past decade by playing the game that suits them and overrunning teams.
Yes, we can hit it long at times, we can kick bollock and bite at times and it's not always pretty, but if you try to beat Spain by playing like Spain, try to beat France by playing like France, then you will lose.

I'm not suggesting playing spoiling tactics or fouling, or anything ugly like that, but our style is direct, fast paced and physical.

If someone wants to subjectively call this 'ugly' and compare it to what THEY think 'good' football should be, then let them... we'll just focus on doing whatever we need to do to build the right way for us.

Doing what needs to be done, is never pretty, but must be done before you can do what you want to do.

Hodgson is no fool.
I don't know whether we'll manage to show it in these Championships in such a short time, but once we have a solid, spirited team that is hard to beat and good foundations in place, then we'll have the confidence to attack with speed and power, like many of our domestic clubs have beaten their European counterparts in recent times.

1-1
Restricted the much fancied French team, with all their attacking flair to mainly longer distance efforts.
Created some decent chances and have some young energy with pace.
I think we'll get better and build on this good start.

*thumbs up thingy*
 
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Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

Yeah, that's one thing I've noticed about English goalkeepers over the years, Ben.

In general, their footwork is very substandard compared to other goalkeepers.
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

I was once a GK myself and i have a feeling i have a good eye for the talent of GK's (but it would not be the first time i'm wrong).
Someone mentioned Al-Habsi here: IMO Hart certainly isn't better than him? They are in the same league.

The biggest GK talent i saw in England the last years was Foster, but it didn't work out for him at Man Utd and that was a huge set-back for him (and i don't blame Man Utd). It's true that Hart has more confidence and seems actually one of the few top players who seems to enjoy himself when on the pitch. That is important, certainly for a GK.

That is his main strength: the mental side of the game.

In terms of GK techinque and physical presence he is by far inferior to other young GK's like Neuer or Courtois (wh are both mentally strong aswell). The gap between hart and the absolute best GK's like Casillas, Buffon and Cech is huge. Courtois and Neuer (and Neuer has an advantage over Courtois here) are come close very fast.
 
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Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

I mentioned Al-Habsi Gerd, I think he's an okay keeper but Hart is better because I trust his handling more, Al-Habsi spills alot of comfortable saves and catches where most keepers don't.
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

@gerd
Out of curiosity, how do you rate Lloris and Handanovic (not young but according to experts in top 10)?
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

I don't see them very often, but from what i've seen they are both better than Hart, not among the very very best, but very close. Both solid GK's who lack a litle bit of personality and presence.

I'll try to explain myself (andkeep in mind that i don't know them very well, so i migh be wrong). Imagine a striker who is through on goal, not a Drogba, Eto'o, Messi, Villa, Ronaldo, but a very, very good striker. In the split second before deciding to shoot or to lift it over the keeper, GK's with presence like Casillas, Buffon and Cech, will make the striker doubt himself. He will start to think. When the same striker faces Lloris or Handanovic, he will not think and will take a decision by instinct. There is a good chance that Lloris and Handanovic will catch the ball, but they don't have the psychological advantage of the biggest GK's. Courtois and (even more) Neuer are very close to that state of psychological upper hand. That is also what IMO De Gea lacks. He is immensely talented and played a fantastic second half of the season, but he lacks the presence of Schmeichel (the best GK i ever saw, with Neville Southall as a close second and the thing that separates them is once again the psychological upperhand that Southall had less than Schmeichel).

But maybe i'm just blabbering...that's the way i see it, but i'm often wrong.
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

No Glen Johnson if the official pictures.
England_2245492b.jpg


There he is ....
Glen-Johnson-photo.gif
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

Taylor_94 said:
I mentioned Al-Habsi Gerd, I think he's an okay keeper but Hart is better because I trust his handling more, Al-Habsi spills alot of comfortable saves and catches where most keepers don't.
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Al-Habsi has been having great performances in the last couple of seasons. But I suspect he is one of those keepers who are great when in-demand, but if he spends a long time without making a save he can lose concentration. This will sound harsh, but I'm talking Almunia-esque features here.
Al-Habsi plays for Wigan now so he has to make lots of saves almost every match. But if he went to a top 4 team would he make it?

Many people say this concentration thing comes with age and experience, but I think young keepers like Hart and Sczcesny have it in them.
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

gerd said:
I don't see them very often, but from what i've seen they are both better than Hart, not among the very very best, but very close. Both solid GK's who lack a litle bit of personality and presence.

I'll try to explain myself (andkeep in mind that i don't know them very well, so i migh be wrong). Imagine a striker who is through on goal, not a Drogba, Eto'o, Messi, Villa, Ronaldo, but a very, very good striker. In the split second before deciding to shoot or to lift it over the keeper, GK's with presence like Casillas, Buffon and Cech, will make the striker doubt himself. He will start to think. When the same striker faces Lloris or Handanovic, he will not think and will take a decision by instinct. There is a good chance that Lloris and Handanovic will catch the ball, but they don't have the psychological advantage of the biggest GK's. Courtois and (even more) Neuer are very close to that state of psychological upper hand. That is also what IMO De Gea lacks. He is immensely talented and played a fantastic second half of the season, but he lacks the presence of Schmeichel (the best GK i ever saw, with Neville Southall as a close second and the thing that separates them is once again the psychological upperhand that Southall had less than Schmeichel).

But maybe i'm just blabbering...that's the way i see it, but i'm often wrong.
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Well, I agree with you here. I think this is the difference between a world class GK and a great one.
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

Not the first time Johnson's been caught wandering at the back. :P
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

Hmmmm, 1-2.

I feel like im watching some crappy epl mid table match. Its probably the technically poorest one so far in the tournament.
 
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Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

Fantastic goal from Wellbeck, Walcott as a super sub...glad for him.
 
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced

gabe.paul.logan said:
yup this is the funny part, i think PL is the strongest competition on Earth but if it comes to name at least 11 english players who can beat any team on Earth then you ...just...realize...you cant...you already wanted to name Clichy, Drogba, Toure, Cech ohoh, but wait a minute :D

only Rooney, Welbeck, Chamberlain and maybe Parker will perform great i guess

btw whats up with Adam Johnson, Lennon, Sturridge, G Holt, K Walker, Wilshere?
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I dont wanna be a dickhead but...umm who cares :D
"Told ya"
 
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