eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

[Ameppe]

- What's good and solid
- What is bad and seriously needs improving
- How can football games evolve in the future on the PS5 etc..

I have said several times that the game has good gameplay when you are in control of the ball, but it's bad when you are not in control, when you are defending. Also, it's quite clear i don't like master league as it is now, at all. The few additions they are now making for Pes 2020 aren't enough, because it's too late too little.

Also i talked about how the AI could be the next big improvement for every game thanks to the new hardware, not just football games.

I'm mostly negative because i think it's much more useful to talk about what is wrong in Pes, fixing what is wrong should be the first step to have a truly great game.

I feel its imperative we establish this to get the best feedback possible. I feel i could come back in 10 years entering my 40's maybe with a wife and kids and we will still have the same people here moaning about efootball 2029 is not realistic like PES5, this is my fear, this is a great forum but i'm concerned for the future.

Why not? If Pes will still be bad as it is now and won't still have some basic things that Pes 5 already had i don't see why people shouldn't talk about it. But you are talking about 10 years in the future. Well, i'm not even sure in 10 years Pes will still be releasing in the same format as now, it will probably be free to play or completely dead by then. That is the road they are following.

It's not even a matter of being negative for the sake of it, or because i like to the pessimistic, it's just analysis of the actual situation. Konami has no clue where to go with Pes, they showed it so many times and i'm quite shocked there are some people that think they know, or have an actual long term vision.

 

[piccolo_bsc]

Well I had the same first response as you, thinking "wait, it's on his channel..?"

And then I took a moment to think, and realised what he must have been saying. What fed into that process was remembering other things: limited number of streams available, many I've seen either were 720p or falsely advertised as 1080p, looks like the youtuber uploads many PES videos from other places, etc.

Put it all together, and not leaping ahead with your first instinct, you realise what he actually meant instead of how you took it. It's called the principle of charity – you should try it.

Still not a reason to insult me, obviously self advertisement is my first conclusion.
But let's move on, i was in the wrong here.

 

[klashman69]

Give me a break. Since you've been keeping tabs, you'll have jotted down in your notes the following things about members/former members of PES Universe:

• 
  True Brits bloke is routinely critical of: repetitive bland AI, crap ML mode in general, dodgy AI, high PA levels, not enough error on PA1, etc.
  David Fish had a public spat with a Konami representative, because he called out how unresponsive PES 2019 was and ended up going back to FIFA
  "PESEP" complains about online scripting in every single one of his live streams
  "Vernimator" complains about lag and scripting all the time

How this relates to my point, the critique from our guys is balance in the sense, they know what they like and they are very clear in what they don't like. This makes taking feedback from them better becuase the exact areas which needed.

Over here there is so many people who seem to hate the series completely and really don't like anything about the game anymore. So there really isn't a basis to take feedback from. The whole lazer guided passing thing for example, i feel this can be improved but its not a huge issue at all, this is a fine balance which will need to be tuned not just with PA but the time length of the game and difficulty and allow the manual modifiers not be compromised unfairly. Last thing i want is some FIFA nonsense where you have a slider which makes the AI miss passes without the content of the pass and how easy or hard it is taken into consideration.

Not to mention, physics, inertia and movement potential should be the big factor here, also whats already been implemented for years which is space the AI has to pass.

 

[Ameobinho]

LOL@the long tedious posts by triggered Konami apologists, It's that time of the year I guess. (Every point of view should be respected of course).

This forum has an excellent track record of pointing out problems in the game, And most of the feedback has been a highlight of a patch released by Konami which falsely claimed to fix these issues (Gk positioning,Fouls,Transfers,AI low cross...etc).

The users on here fixed so many broken issues that Konami lied about and the guys criticizing evoweb shouldn't play with any files from here and enjoy the lackluster product that they seem to enjoy and ant us to shut up about.

I just hope that we concentrate on getting our message across regarding the main issues that we're waiting to be fixed for years now, Instead of some random users trying to argue if these are valid issues or not. Like in the past when some Konami affiliated clowns blamed the users play style for the lack of penalties or fouls, Why would Konami patch it then? lol

pesuniverse make money out of the game with the support of Konami so they're shills in my book.

 

[klashman69]

I have said several times that the game has good gameplay when you are in control of the ball, but it's bad when you are not in control, when you are defending. Also, it's quite clear i don't like master league as it is now, at all. The few additions they are now making for Pes 2020 aren't enough, because it's too late too little.

Also i talked about how the AI could be the next big improvement for every game thanks to the new hardware, not just football games.

I'm mostly negative because i think it's much more useful to talk about what is wrong in Pes, fixing what is wrong should be the first step to have a truly great game.



Why not? If Pes will still be bad as it is now and won't still have some basic things that Pes 5 already had i don't see why people shouldn't talk about it. But you are talking about 10 years in the future. Well, i'm not even sure in 10 years Pes will still be releasing in the same format as now, it will probably be free to play or completely dead by then. That is the road they are following.

It's not even a matter of being negative for the sake of it, or because i like to the pessimistic, it's just analysis of the actual situation. Konami has no clue where to go with Pes, they showed it so many times and i'm quite shocked there are some people that think they know, or have an actual long term vision.

I totally disagree the game is bad off the ball, it's all about how you setup your team. You can get spanked 4-1 by a team passing through you, but with the right setup you can win the very same match 6-1. I did that last week testing Bejing Goan vs another Chinese team.

Chinese teams are difficult to use if you have an average team, the defences are total shit so it turns into a basketball game where its close attack after close attack since all the attack are stronger than the defences. I like the challenge but its frustrating.

PES 2019 gameplay is so far beyond PES 5 there is no comparison anymore, i mean its not touched its legacy as the best PES game of course since PES 2019 off the pitch is a fucking shambles, gameplay its way beyond. I can look back at PES 5 for nostalgia and balance, things like injuries, but in gameplay PES on the PS2 is very, very much dated and has been for years and years now. I have been back and tried them so i know from retrospective.

 

[loco]

How this relates to my point, the critique from our guys is balance in the sense, they know what they like and they are very clear in what they don't like. This makes taking feedback from them better becuase the exact areas which needed.

Over here there is so many people who seem to hate the series completely and really don't like anything about the game anymore. So there really isn't a basis to take feedback from. The whole lazer guided passing thing for example, i feel this can be improved but its not a huge issue at all, this is a fine balance which will need to be tuned not just with PA but the time length of the game and difficulty and allow the manual modifiers not be compromised unfairly. Last thing i want is some FIFA nonsense where you have a slider which makes the AI miss passes without the content of the pass and how easy or hard it is taken into consideration.

Not to mention, physics, inertia and movement potential should be the big factor here, also whats already been implemented for years which is space the AI has to pass.

"Our guys"????

Many people here know what they like and are very clear when they don't like it too.

So "your guys" know the exact areas where feedback is needed and people here don't?

 

[klashman69]

LOL@the long tedious posts by triggered Konami apologists, It's that time of the year I guess. (Every point of view should be respected of course).

This forum has an excellent track record of pointing out problems in the game, And most of the feedback has been a highlight of a patch released by Konami which falsely claimed to fix these issues (Gk positioning,Fouls,Transfers,AI low cross...etc).

What on earth are you talking about? Konami fixed those issues with the first big patch and dam right they should of fixed them! The release was embarrassing and the transfer problem was disgustingly bad on release. TTB made a big video about this stuff (PES Universe member)

The users on here fixed so many broken issues that Konami lied about and the guys criticizing evoweb shouldn't play with any files from here and enjoy the lackluster product that they seem to enjoy and ant us to shut up about.

I just hope that we concentrate on getting our message across regarding the main issues that we're waiting to be fixed for years now, Instead of some random users trying to argue if these are valid issues or not. Like in the past when some Konami affiliated clowns blamed the users play style for the lack of penalties or fouls, Why would Konami patch it then? lol

pesuniverse make money out of the game with the support of Konami so they're shills in my book.

PES Universe are shills? You calling me a shill? I'm part of PES Universe, i can tell you all I've ever got out of PES Universe is a few goodies and credits, we are normal guys with careers doing this out of love for PES, keeping it alive as because Konami have said to us we keep the game alive, without a community it would have died and been murdered by FIFA.

Barry and Ricky built PES universe from nothing whatsoever. You can build something like PES Universe yourself also. We built it for the benefit of promoting PES to the world! As i said and as I've been shouting about regarding feedback which has been listened to, we took the game away from the sidemen who were sabotaging feedback from 2015-2017, every year sabotaging the game in early playtests, they got in due to the views.

TTB, PESEP, Verm, Barry, Nem who went through his FIFA love period, are all very blunt about whats wrong. What, you expect us to be over negative and just trash the game like some do here to be 'cool' in the eyes of a few people on a forum? As someone who has been creating file here for more than 10 years, this is my concern as to why people don't take this place seriously for debate an its used just for patching.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

lets see if you guys can debate like gents

 

[klashman69]

"Our guys"????

Many people here know what they like and are very clear when they don't like it too.

So "your guys" know the exact areas where feedback is needed and people here don't?

From what I've seen its like there are guys here who like basically nothing about the game, pretty much every year. So many never say what they even like, just hate on everything, literally either throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I came here earlier in the year, really looking to find a good precedent to get feedback but i just got attacked by a guy who tried to ram down my throat PES 2019 is rubbish.

 

[banbenbin]

How this relates to my point, the critique from our guys is balance in the sense, they know what they like and they are very clear in what they don't like. This makes taking feedback from them better becuase the exact areas which needed.

Over here there is so many people who seem to hate the series completely and really don't like anything about the game anymore. So there really isn't a basis to take feedback from. The whole lazer guided passing thing for example, i feel this can be improved but its not a huge issue at all, this is a fine balance which will need to be tuned not just with PA but the time length of the game and difficulty and allow the manual modifiers not be compromised unfairly. Last thing i want is some FIFA nonsense where you have a slider which makes the AI miss passes without the content of the pass and how easy or hard it is taken into consideration.

Not to mention, physics, inertia and movement potential should be the big factor here, also whats already been implemented for years which is space the AI has to pass.

This might be the most pretentious post I've seen in evo-web.

Most people have been clear with the improvements they want. For attributes to matter is pretty much the top thing. Most gameplay issues for me, stem from there. The trait cards are the only differentiating character amongst players. I really see no difference in having average midfielder and Kroos. Or Pique playing the ball out of the back vs average Championship centerback. Then there are the animation related issues that make the game look silly. Then there are the ML issues that make the game superficial at best. There are very few people who hate the series here. People are very critical, sure, but give them a football game that does the above and the majority here will be pretty pleased. There are always the trolls, but if you can't look past that, it's more of a you problem.

 

[Ameppe]

PES 2019 gameplay is so far beyond PES 5 there is no comparison anymore

Of course, it's a 15 old game. I never said Pes 5 gameplay is better, but that 15 old game still has basic things that Pes 2019 lacks (that's frankly shocking), like misplaced passes, crosses, shots. An AI that actually plays in a reasonable way even at higher difficulties and doesn't cheat or is boosted by script to win. Referees that actually whistle fouls when there are fouls, physicality. All of this is missing in Pes 2019.

I don't agree that it's a matter of tactics. All the issues with player positioning in Pes 2019 can't be fixed by tactics. Also, the most frustrating thing is that tactics don't work at all when the AI decides you have to concede a goal and the CPU transforms a weak team in a top player team.

 

[Ameobinho]

What on earth are you talking about? Konami fixed those issues with the first big patch and dam right they should of fixed them! The release was embarrassing and the transfer problem was disgustingly bad on release. TTB made a big video about this stuff (PES Universe member).

AI low cross still exists
goalies still glued to their lines, def line too deep
fouls don't exist
penalties don't exist

What did they fix?

TTB, PESEP, Verm, Barry, Nem who went through his FIFA love period, are all very blunt about whats wrong. What, you expect us to be over negative and just trash the game like some do here to be 'cool' in the eyes of a few people on a forum? As someone who has been creating file here for more than 10 years, this is my concern as to why people don't take this place seriously for debate an its used just for patching.

That's harsh on the users on here, I never knew that you're a pesuniverse guy, I'd like you to tell konami to bring back a proper edit mode so that we don't need to pay money to some shills for getting the game to a respectable state for a game released in 2020.

 

[TheGoodOldDays]

I know it's pure snobbery but I can't take anyone seriously who played FIFA during the golden years of PES, and then switched to PES once FIFA actually became decent. You must be viewing the world through a completely different lens (or a broken one).

The more I've seen of PES 2020 the worse it gets. Contrary to what someone said above the physical interactions are the thing where PES is furthest behind, and it sticks out like a sore thumb even more this year. In most cases the outcomes have the sense of being very binary, like you can see it's just a super basic calculation to derive who will "win" this particular battle, very little back and forth which is something EA has somehow got down pretty well.

I just saw Messi get absolutely bulldozed by some average Flamengo defender too. It's like the players have so much weight on the ball but then apart from Suarez who is the one exception they look like feathers whenever they get touched, it's jarring and the lack of on demand shielding will mean you still want to avoid defenders at all cost resulting in hot potato football.

The AI looked strange to me, it's Superstar Barcelona against Flamengo and yet it feels like it is the human player that is Barca, playing against some bottom of the table side. You should be defending for your life as Flamengo, I'd get bored of that in five minutes flat. Is it so hard to simulate a top possession based team without it descending into ping pong? AI is really difficult to get right, no question about it, but I feel it has regressed since the PS2 days and it can't only be about tech.

 

[janguv]

LOL@the long tedious posts by triggered Konami apologists, It's that time of the year I guess. (Every point of view should be respected of course).

This forum has an excellent track record of pointing out problems in the game, And most of the feedback has been a highlight of a patch released by Konami which falsely claimed to fix these issues (Gk positioning,Fouls,Transfers,AI low cross...etc).

The users on here fixed so many broken issues that Konami lied about and the guys criticizing evoweb shouldn't play with any files from here and enjoy the lackluster product that they seem to enjoy and ant us to shut up about.

I just hope that we concentrate on getting our message across regarding the main issues that we're waiting to be fixed for years now, Instead of some random users trying to argue if these are valid issues or not. Like in the past when some Konami affiliated clowns blamed the users play style for the lack of penalties or fouls, Why would Konami patch it then? lol

pesuniverse make money out of the game with the support of Konami so they're shills in my book.

How do you hope to "get across a message" when in the very same post as expressing that wish, you describe a fan group as shills, and indirectly refer to other fans (such as me) as "apologists"?

This is one reason you don't get listened to. Needlessly dismissive, hostile, antagonistic, and conspiratorial.

The other reason you don't get listened to I've already described. Konami are pursuing profit first and foremost – sadly. They recognise that PES Universe is plugged into the mainstream in a way that discrete forums like this never will be. So of course they'll hook up with PES Universe, inviting them on their streams. It makes sense. It doesn't make PES Universe shills, though.

And I notice you did the same lazy thing someone else earlier did, when saying PES Universe are "paid" (by whom?). So how do they "make money out of the game with the support of Konami", exactly? The vague phrasing of course helps you get this point across, as people connect the dots without you having to be explicit. But were you to be explicit, it's far less controversial:

They have a cheap service where users can access option files arranged in a certain way for convenience (others get access too, a small time later, and not lumped into one archive). They do that, separately, and Konami – who have nothing to do with that process – also like to engage with them when it comes to promoting their game. That's the extent of the connection.

 

[its999maggle]

lets see if you guys can debate like gents

Or you know, we can always lock em up in a gladiator cage.

 

[Ameobinho]

My money is on peseuniverse guys declaring the game to be 'free as a bird" in the coming weeks.

Anyways I'm not gonna discuss this anymore and I think my point has been made, Thx.

 

[janguv]

That's harsh on the users on here, I never knew that you're a pesuniverse guy, I'd like you to tell konami to bring back a proper edit mode so that we don't need to pay money to some shills for getting the game to a respectable state for a game released in 2020.

Ha. Couldn't make it up. This is the problem. You genuinely think that because klash is part of PES Universe, he must have a through-line to Konami and influence over how the game develops.

Completely out of touch, and clearly unaware of the fact that almost all of the PES Universe group have had unaddressed complaints about the series for years.

 

[klashman69]

Of course, it's a 15 old game. I never said Pes 5 gameplay is better, but that 15 old game still has basic things that Pes 2019 lacks (that's frankly shocking), like misplaced passes, crosses, shots. An AI that actually plays in a reasonable way even at higher difficulties and doesn't cheat or is boosted by script to win. Referees that actually whistle fouls when there are fouls, physicality. All of this is missing in Pes 2019.

I don't agree that it's a matter of tactics. All the issues with player positioning in Pes 2019 can't be fixed by tactics. Also, the most frustrating thing is that tactics don't work at all when the AI decides you have to concede a goal and the CPU transforms a weak team in a top player team.

Tactics don't 'fix' issues. It's a fundamental part of the game, maybe thats what your missing. You may see something as a problem or its broken, where its actually the AI exploiting the space left, weather this is a problem or now is determined how and if there is a way to stop it.

This might be the most pretentious post I've seen in evo-web.

Most people have been clear with the improvements they want. For attributes to matter is pretty much the top thing. Most gameplay issues for me, stem from there. The trait cards are the only differentiating character amongst players. I really see no difference in having average midfielder and Kroos. Or Pique playing the ball out of the back vs average Championship centerback. Then there are the animation related issues that make the game look silly. Then there are the ML issues that make the game superficial at best.

No they aren't people are not clear at all here.

There are very few people who hate the series here. People are very critical, sure, but give them a football game that does the above and the majority here will be pretty pleased. There are always the trolls, but if you can't look past that, it's more of a you problem.

Disagree massively, this is my big point i made about some people being stuck in the past. I feel some people are stuck with the nostalgia of older games and just want that and want to stay within gameplay which suits what they used to love, problem is they have grown to hate PES from the PS3 to PS4 era, this era in gameplay has moved on so much from the past, they find 1 or 2 key things they don't like, hate everything (Baby with the bathwater) then reference back to the older games forgetting how much easier it was back then to make certain changes.

I honestly think this is a thing here. I do not play PES 2019 like i did PES 2013 much, and it's a totally alien game compared to PES 4/5/6 etc... I feel people play the newer games expecting them to feel the same as the PS2 games. This is exactly what i get from much of the feedback especially regarding lazer guided passing.

 

[janguv]

My money is peseuniverse guys to claim the game is free as a bird in the coming weeks.

The person I heard saying that last year mostly was Daniel Henry (since banned, PES League employee). Others at the same event were saying that a bit too, including "PA2 is the new PA1". I remember PESEP being one of those.

Doesn't make them shills. They're guys who play online exclusively – myClub, and use PA2 or PA3 all the time, have come across a build which has a little more error (body positioning has more of an effect on PA1 this year), are still getting used to it, playing a build where the animations haven't been tightened up (so everything feels looser), and in the hype they are prone to overstating things.

It's really not that complicated or conspiratorial.

 

[Madmac79]

Sigh.

 

[klashman69]

That's harsh on the users on here, I never knew that you're a pesuniverse guy, I'd like you to tell konami to bring back a proper edit mode so that we don't need to pay money to some shills for getting the game to a respectable state for a game released in 2020.

Do you know how much i have been shouting at Konami to do this! I will continue to shout this since edit mode is rubbish right now.

 

[Ameppe]

People that act like we are the ones being wrong and still don't understand the problems Konami has are much more deep than just belonging to Pes 2019 or even just Pes in general are either blind fanboys or shills.

You can't be serious. I mean, Asim worked three years with them and had to resign because he was so frustrated Konami never supported him with his job that was exactly to be a mean of communication between fans and development team.

That is the perfect example that there is something deeply wrong in the way Konami acts towards his fans and how they see Pes as a franchise.

Don't even try shifting the blame on us, saying we are the ones that aren't helping them. They don't want to be helped, that's the truth.

You may see something as a problem or its broken, where its actually the AI exploiting the space left, weather this is a problem or now is determined how and if there is a way to stop it.

There is not a way to stop AI from scoring when it enters goal scoring mode, it's immediately noticeable. You could put 10 men in penalty area and CPU could be able to find the little space they need, even if it means cheating defying physics and literally going through defenders legs to shoot.

 

[cosmo]

- goalies still glued to their lines, def line too deep

-

Typical poor Konami default Formations with 'Deep Defensive Live' overkill.

page 6 or so

Tactics don't 'fix' issues.

last page

oh, atleast we re learning...

 

[sonoman]

Geez, these wall of text rants and love letters are getting kind of tedious

 

[Bonano]

The AI looked strange to me, it's Superstar Barcelona against Flamengo and yet it feels like it is the human player that is Barca, playing against some bottom of the table side. You should be defending for your life as Flamengo, I'd get bored of that in five minutes flat. Is it so hard to simulate a top possession based team without it descending into ping pong?

Was just about to write something similar.
The two vids I've seen with superstar AI Barca they ended with around 30% possesion. And this is THE partnership team of the game; the one team ID you'd think they'd nail.
To me this is very worrying when it comes to the AI.

The goal between Suarez and Messi was nice and surprising though!

 

[Peter Withe]

Give me a break. Since you've been keeping tabs, you'll have jotted down in your notes the following things about members/former members of PES Universe:

• 
  True Brits bloke is routinely critical of: repetitive bland AI, crap ML mode in general, dodgy AI, high PA levels, not enough error on PA1, etc.
  David Fish had a public spat with a Konami representative, because he called out how unresponsive PES 2019 was and ended up going back to FIFA
  "PESEP" complains about online scripting in every single one of his live streams
  "Vernimator" complains about lag and scripting all the time

Off the top of my head, those are or have been main guys, and they've not held back from complaining. Are you able to explain away the complaining? Is it not often enough for you, or they don't make the same complaints as you want them to make? Are they just complaining so as to appear objective while secretly taking goodies from Konami on the sly?

I can imagine a raft of such explanations, each more desperate than the last – each an instance of special pleading. It's laughable.

As with all conspiratorial thinking, this fails to notice the much more basic and plausible explanations:

• 
  They like PES and want it to do well
  They don't look for the same faults as guys here, and if they did, wouldn't notice them to the same extent
  They are susceptible to hype, especially at live events
  They are media savvy and want a positive vibe in their respective channels, so they don't fill them with endless negativity

Etc., etc.

What's your definitive evidence they're shills, then? Probably something along the lines of "errr, they get invited to events and treated nice and stuff". That's true enough. But so does, e.g., Chris here. I'm on another forum (a league), and normally one of the team there gets invited to a playtest. (B-Man used to be at E3 playtests and on camera – was he thereby compromised?)

It's true you see PES Uni guys a little more on these things, but is it hard to see why? The PES "community" publicly exists as a series of transient interactions and friendships across gaming social networks (Twitch, Twitter, YouTube), and that's what Konami sees as the base now, rightly or wrongly. PES Uni guys were wise enough to recognise that on the new platforms for social interaction and interest groups, there was a big space for a PES opening, and they became established accordingly.

You may not like their content – you may not be into the whole watching somebody "do a spin" on myClub – fuck knows I'm not into that, but to suggest they're shills because sometimes they're positive, often they're at PES events, and Konami like them is just, as I said above, inane drivel.

EDIT: By the way, when people complain that this place is toxic, it may be an overstatement, but it's this sort of "If you're friendly with Konami or you don't slate the game all day long then you're paid off" attitude which creates an air of unease and bitterness. It's snobbish, badly thought through, and sustains the impression places like this are irrelevant cliques housing only resentful people.

I respect you’ve got a different opinion to me.

But the bottom line, for me, is:

Chris might get invited to events but he still writes his honest opinions here.

PES Universe would sell their grandma if it meant they could get it play PES earlier than everyone else and get the attention for it.

(Sorry for speaking you @Chris Davies just my opinion)

PES Universe make money from PES. Directly, indirectly, whatever it doesn’t matter. They make actual cash because of PES despite not being employed by Konami.

Chris, as far as I can tell, doesn’t get paid a dime. He just loves footy gaming and wants it to be good.

 

[klashman69]

People that act like we are the ones being wrong and still don't understand the problems Konami has are much more deep than just belonging to Pes 2019 or even just Pes in general are either blind fanboys or shills.

You can't be serious. I mean, Asim worked three years with them and had to resign because he was so frustrated Konami never supported him with his job that was exactly to be a mean of communication between fans and development team.

That is the perfect example that there is something deeply wrong in the way Konami acts towards his fans and how they see Pes as a franchise.

Don't even try shifting the blame on us, saying we are the ones that aren't helping them. They don't want to be helped, that's the truth.

This is why I've been really passionate about the debates here.

Our hands are tied in a sense by Konami at head office. As a company they have shown little interest in developing games on current or next generation consoles so we are in a precarious situation. This explains why i'm not holding back.

-

page 6 or so

last page

oh, atleast we re learning...

I hate the obsession the AI have with 'deep defensive line' i really do.

'Tactics don't fix issues!', 'was it an issue in the first place?'

I respect you’ve got a different opinion to me.

But the bottom line, for me, is:

PES Universe would sell their grandma if it meant they could get it play PES earlier than everyone else and get the attention for it.

PES Universe make money from PES. Directly, indirectly, whatever it doesn’t matter. They make actual cash because of PES despite not being employed by Konami.

Explain? I'm part of PES Universe. Explain how i'd sell my grandma to play PES early?

 

[Chris Davies]

Klash, I've already said I respect you for the tactics work you do - but I can show you a video of the worst teams stringing ten passes together and, of all the things wrong with that, you say:

It's all about how you setup your team.

If Fulham (a poor, now-relegated Premier League team) played a terrible lower-league team, who gave them loads of space...

...Fulham still couldn't string together ten first-time no-look passes.

Part one of looking into this problem is surely looking at how a poor team with poor players can perform the impossible *AT ALL*.

But you say it's because we're not playing well enough, that we're giving the AI too much space by not selecting tactics intelligently before a game so what do we expect.

We expect, in a football game, the worst teams not to string ten first-time no-look passes together. No matter how much space they have. That is a deep technical problem - for a simulation. Which is what some - NOT ALL - of us want, and we can debate.

If you're okay with it, great. But it's absolutely valid to NOT be okay with that - and to critique it like adults - and to WANT the game to be better.

As for...

Over here there is so many people who seem to hate the series completely and really don't like anything about the game anymore.

We post clips of the game, we post the things we love, the goals we've scored. I uploaded some just this week. I'm a very vocal critic, and I LOVE the series.

Why the hell would I (and others) still be posting after 10+ years otherwise? I dedicate hours of my life every day to this site in service of this community - JUST LIKE YOU DO.

I even put together a patch for PES 2017. And you think we hate the series just because we disagree on something?

 

[Ameppe]

This is why I've been really passionate about the debates here.

Our hands are tied in a sense by Konami at head office. As a company they have shown little interest in developing games on current or next generation consoles so we are in a precarious situation. This explains why i'm not holding back.

I don't understand: what are you trying to accomplish? Why are you even trying? If even you admit Konami has little interest in developing games on consoles you can't just help them, no matter how passionate you are.

 

[Chuny]

Yeah I don't think anyone in their right mind would spend $60 yearly on a game just to spread hate on it and dislike everything about it.
The thing is though when the cons outweigh the pros, it's hard to focus only on the things you like.

Games like PES 6, PES 5, PES 2013 had flaws too. But in those cases, for me, there were far more positives than negatives, so it was easier to just focus on playing the game, enjoy it and stick to that part.