The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

Which PES 2012 version do you prefer?

  • Total voters
    233
  • Poll closed .
Ern Dog said:
LT you can get it new for 18 quid, you would probably get under a tenner for it, may aswel keep it.

How are you finding the player movement in FIFA now? I noticed that every player in my Bristol Rovers squad has medium for both attack and defense, I wonder if this contributes to the lack of movement I am experiencing. What team have you chosen?
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I'm finding the player movement to be fine to be honest, changing attack/defence levels per player works wonders (plus choosing players wisely helps - you can see their natural attacking tendencies in their stats list) but overall it's good. The CPU have scored some really realistic goals too.

Anyways I won't bleat on about it seeing as this is a PES thread, but yeah I'm loving all the authentic details and the gameplay is very dynamic. Lost a match vs Chelsea, despite taking an early lead I was pinned back in my half for most of the match and lost 2-1, with me knowing if I let in the second I wouldn't have much of a way back.

Now, to compare that to PES2012, in PES this never happens. You just dominate the play and get shafted by superhuman dribbling or incredibly unlucky goals over and over. It's that lack of variation that feels like a limited AI just cheaping goals off you in a poor attempt to replicate game 'difficulty'.

Sometimes this happens in FIFA12, but mostly if you play as Newcastle like I have been, then a trip to Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea etc is TOUGH because they keep the ball more than you, put you under pressure, try long shots, and are lethal in front of goal. I lost a league match at home to Man City 1-5 to end a good winning streak, and didn't mind because they were on paper a much stronger team who dismantled me with well constructed goals. There's the difference between FIFA and PES this year. EA have done a remarkable turnaround with their CPU AI whereas PES had gone backwards.
 
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LOL LTFC - I only have to read a few posts back and you said you were unhappy with both FIFA as well this year. And a few posts before that you sung its praises as you do now and before that you hated it again lol...stop climbing the fence bro :P haha
 
Ern Dog said:
I find FIFAs dribbling to be far better than PES. You have analog movement with just the stick so there is a range of jogging speeds. Then you have the R2 type of dribble which when used with another button allows you to strafe. You have analog sprinting, the contextual precision dribbling and the button that gives you REALLY close control. Its. All a bit much at first but when you get used to it and know when to use what its brilliant. Add to that some of the awesome little turns you can do when receivingthe ball with the right stick and it puts the PES movement options to shame.
I also dont find the ball to be glued to the fett in FIFA, far from it infact. Same with first touches, I see terrible ones all the time.
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I agree there's more options in FIFA but I think it feels a lot more natural when you beat someone with a change of direction or pace in PES. I agree there could be more of a feeling of the inbetween speeds though. Not just slow and fast - or analog as you put it.

However, for all those options you mentioned about FIFA, there's still something that doesn't feel quite right. The spacing of touches seems a bit exaggerated. Playing against a friend the other night, he basically dribbled with his finger on close control the entire match (with the odd sprint into space).

The problem I have with it arises when you hold close control and move the stick around and it resembles the way the CPU tries keeping the ball off you near the corner flag. In a real game, players don't move with those kind of square "slalom" movements where it feels like 360 degrees don't exist, but 16 directions do.

That and the sluggishness of some players turning is what kills it for me because otherwise the gameplay would massively improve.

As an example, too many of my FIFA games online result in one of us being able to dribble to each other's 18 yard box and get a shot off (or block the shot) and then it's the other person's turn and so forth.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
LOL LTFC - I only have to read a few posts back and you said you were unhappy with both FIFA as well this year. And a few posts before that you sung its praises as you do now and before that you hated it again lol...stop climbing the fence bro :P haha
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Well I was getting bored with FIFA but a few extra tweaks of the gameplay with sliders and a few tips on setting up my players to attack more seems to have sorted that right out. It needs adjusting as it's not perfect right out of the box, but at least the option is there to tweak it however you want and within the game itself so it takes no time at all.
 
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I'm seriously considering buying FIFA this week because it's down to about £22 in some shops for a short time. Not having a football game to play is really annoying and even though I didn't like the last FIFA at all I'm thinking that it's gotta be worth a gamble at just over 20 quid.

It's crazy but the poor quality of PES 2012 almost FORCES you to go out and give FIFA a go. Konami have done EA a massive favour with this year's shoddy product, I wonder how many PES diehards have gone out and bought FIFA for the very first time this year? Quite a few I would think.
 
yesterday i sold pes (first time in my life, there is a shelf with only pes/we in my room!). Great deal, i bought at 39 euros at games (10 euros off promotion on the second wekk because people were not buying it!) and i sold it for 29 euros at a second hand shop!

Anyway going back to pes 2011 after 1 month and a half of pes 2012 is refreshing, pes 2011 is responsive, nice visuals, good master league, and each tacting feels different making games very enoyble! keepers are decent and i prefer its ball phisics! I am happy with that for another year.

One IMPORTANT thing i think pes 2013 shoud introduce: using right analog for shooting like in NBA 2k. Right now i can't decide how to shoot, the game decide itself whether is with the interior of the foot, with the external part, whether i shoot high or low, what sort of spin etc etc.

if they put the right analog and give us 5-6 main option it would be immensively enjoyble.

I tried fifa but i just can't like it!
 
i see more and more people agree that pes 2011 was a lot better than pes 2012
i already said that:with pes 2012 release i was just expecting a fixed and improved Pes 2011, i haven't understood yet why they decided to make pes 2012 so scripted, on rails, unrewarding
 
And by the way, i don't believe that any company would invest in a new game engine in the 6ht year of a console cycle knowing that in 2 years time there will be new machines out. some people are being delusional.

personally for this generation i am done with konami, it is clear that there are not going anywhere. hopefully they are making plans for the ps4.
 
Ameppe said:
i see more and more people agree that pes 2011 was a lot better than pes 2012
i already said that:with pes 2012 release i was just expecting a fixed and improved Pes 2011, i haven't understood yet why they decided to make pes 2012 so scripted, on rails, unrewarding
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That's what I expected too. I thought it'd fix some issues like through passes, massive clearances, some slight unresponsiveness etc but I can't imagine how they made keepers worse, or the AI more backwards. It should have been an evolution from 2011 but IMO it's been radically altered in so many areas, not many for the positive. I now have no idea whatsoever what they're gonna come up with next. Will be fascinating to see.
 
Ektor70 said:
And by the way, i don't believe that any company would invest in a new game engine in the 6ht year of a console cycle knowing that in 2 years time there will be new machines out. some people are being delusional.

personally for this generation i am done with konami, it is clear that there are not going anywhere. hopefully they are making plans for the ps4.
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Normally I would agree with that but I think the situation is a little different with Konami. I think they really have to introduce a new engine for PES2013 otherwise they face the prospect of being two generations behind EA when the PS4 and new Xbox hit the market. If they carry on with the current engine I think there is a very real risk of the PES franchise dying completely within the next couple of years. Nothing lasts forever.

So, regarding a new engine - better late than never, I would say.
 
talking about with "engine" are you referring to graphics, collision system, animation system, ball physics, railless experience or freedom in passing, shooting, crossing too?
i think pes just needs a technical reboot, not a gameplay one, since it is still good enough, it's just that gameplay in Pes 2012 is constrained by technical limitations
 
New engine by next year? It's taken them since 2007 (probably longer - they probably started work on PES2008 for next-gen before the next-gen consoles were launched) to get to where they are now. PES2008 to PES2010 were not even games, just some pre-beta code they tried to sell to cash in on the annual gullibles who buy PES every year, no matter how bad it is.

PES2011 was the first release worthy of being called a game. That took them at least 3 or 4 years to get it to that state. And that was a very flakely, unconvinving, unfinished effort - PES2012 being evidence of that as they not been able to take it forward, rather just found themselves reaching a dead-end.

I agree with those that say it'll be next-gen consoles before there's any chance of genuine progress. The current PES borrows too heavily from last-gen PES, old ideas, old AI, same old scripts, same old cheats, old control system, not really much new at all.

I hope I'm wrong (not least cos I don't see FIFA progressing much beyond its current arcade style), but I think PES is at least 5 years away from being good. That's assuming its not already in terminal decline.
 
Ameppe said:
talking about with "engine" are you referring to graphics, collision system, animation system, ball physics, railless experience or freedom in passing, shooting, crossing too?
i think pes just needs a technical reboot, not a gameplay one, since it is still good enough, it's just that gameplay in Pes 2012 is constrained by technical limitations
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The whole lot. Actually, I think they nailed the graphics with PES2010. That was the best looking football game I've played. The graphics have gone downhill since.

arthurm said:
but I think PES is at least 5 years away from being good. That's assuming its not already in terminal decline.
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I don't think Konami have got the luxury of five years. The game will be dead and buried if they don't release a decent PES using a new engine within the next couple of years.
 
GraGra said:
Konami are at crossroads now. Produce magic or perish.
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Oh, come on now... people have been saying this since 2009. They always end up getting baited into buying the shitty games. Be it by WENB master bullshit, or be it by being fooled by the demos. PES isn't going anywhere. Surprising as it may seem to anyone who has played the competition, or anyone who understands the problems and recognizes them, there are still people who enjoy PES. Look at team Adam on WENB. Or some folks at PESFan. Or that dude who hails PES is GOTY of all time every year and then changes his mind after 2 months... jett something. He's American, IIRC.

It's the same bullshit you've been fed since 2008:
"New engine, new engine, new engine. This this it's for real, guys! You'll see. Next year is the real deal!"

It's not happening. Not anytime soon. Konami have had plenty of chance and incentive to do it, they haven't yet, what has changed to make them back out of their position?

PES fans are becoming more and more like abused housewives/girlfriends. They get beaten up twice a week, or once a year in this case, go crash in someone else's apartment for the night, vow to leave their husband/boyfriend forever and go back home after 2 days.

It's all bullshit. You want PES back? Seabass needs to go, Konami needs to hire a lot more western staff and Jon Murphy needs to stop visiting WENB and listening to team Adam.
That's how you fix PES. Neither of these things are going to happen though. And when PES is fixed, if ever, it's not going to be the game you remember. Technology doesn't allow it, we have gone way past the scripted AI routines and 8 directions movement. You can no longer feel in complete control of your player like in PES 4, new, realistic animation systems don't allow it.
You can either have realism, or you can have the same old PES, that you have been playing botched versions of for 4 years now.
 
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Shikashi said:
Oh, come on now... people have been saying this since 2009. They always end up getting baited into buying the shitty games. Be it by WENB master bullshit, or be it by being fooled by the demos. PES isn't going anywhere. Surprising as it may seem to anyone who has played the competition, or anyone who understands the problems and recognizes them, there are still people who enjoy PES. Look at team Adam on WENB. Or some folks at PESFan. Or that dude who hails PES is GOTY of all time every year and then changes his mind after 2 months... jett something. He's American, IIRC.

It's the same bullshit you've been fed since 2008:
"New engine, new engine, new engine. This this it's for real, guys! You'll see. Next year is the real deal!"

It's not happening. Not anytime soon. Konami have had plenty of chance and incentive to do it, they haven't yet, what has changed to make them back out of their position?

PES fans are becoming more and more like abused housewives/girlfriends. They get beaten up twice a week, or once a year in this case, go crash in someone else's apartment for the night, vow to leave their husband/boyfriend forever and go back home after 2 days.

It's all bullshit. You want PES back? Seabass needs to go, Konami needs to hire a lot more western staff and Jon Murphy needs to stop visiting WENB and listening to team Adam.
That's how you fix PES. Neither of these things are going to happen though. And when PES is fixed, if ever, it's not going to be the game you remember. Technology doesn't allow it, we have gone way past the scripted AI routines and 8 directions movement. You can no longer feel in complete control of your player like in PES 4, new, realistic animation systems don't allow it.
You can either have realism, or you can have the same old PES, that you have been playing botched versions of for 4 years now.
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Agreed.
 
i think pes 2011 visuals are very good for day game and cl games. normal night games are dumbed down to give you the "wow" factor in Cl, that's silly. CL should be about presentation non lighting.

I'd say current engine is pretty good, pes 2011 needed to be tweaked on certain aspect of the gameplay (animations and ref and exploits), it needed badly a brand new audio system, tons of new stadia, better editing (back of the shirt, socks), decent nets, new presentaion and some deeper but more fun game modes.

Dunno what went wrong, i guess wrong feedback.

I really thought japanese were very tough business people, i mean seabass and j. murphy should get fired, they have lost 70% of their biz in 4 years time. I don't understand why they don't change the guy in charce.
 
Jamezinho said:
You can only cry wolf so many times though.
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The danger to PES doesn't come from fans deserting it and never going back. If they release a good football game, I'll buy it. That goes for just about everyone. Nobody but a fool would not buy a great footy game just because a version a few years ago was rubbish. Just look at FIFA - woeful tripe for years that was the luaghing stock of PES fans...but as soon as FIFA became better than PES, the sensible people made the switch.

However, I do wonder if there's a danger that if PES continues to flounder (history has shown people will not buy it if it's crap - plenty of people deserted it between 2008 and 2010 because it was consistently bad), is there a possibility Konami might just pull the plug on the whole series if profits are shrinking too much. That's the only danger to PES existing. So long as they make a good game, it'll sell, no matter what's gone before, but they need to ensure it doesn't get so bad that the profits evaoprate.
 
Ektor70 said:
I really thought japanese were very tough business people, i mean seabass and j. murphy should get fired, they have lost 70% of their biz in 4 years time. I don't understand why they don't change the guy in charce.
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It's simple, Winning Eleven is still the go to football game in Japan. It's very rare for Japanese people to buy western games, let alone a western football game.
 
arthurm said:
The danger to PES doesn't come from fans deserting it and never going back. If they release a good football game, I'll buy it. That goes for just about everyone. Nobody but a fool would not buy a great footy game just because a version a few years ago was rubbish. Just look at FIFA - woeful tripe for years that was the luaghing stock of PES fans...but as soon as FIFA became better than PES, the sensible people made the switch.

However, I do wonder if there's a danger that if PES continues to flounder (history has shown people will not buy it if it's crap - plenty of people deserted it between 2008 and 2010 because it was consistently bad), is there a possibility Konami might just pull the plug on the whole series if profits are shrinking too much. That's the only danger to PES existing. So long as they make a good game, it'll sell, no matter what's gone before, but they need to ensure it doesn't get so bad that the profits evaoprate.
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Sales do not prove your point. Pes 2011 sold less than pes 2010 that sold less than pes 2009 that sold less than 2008.

What happened is that pes 2008 and 2009 lived on the expectations, than the reputation started to sink and even if pes 2010 and pes 2011 were better games they were not good enough to reattract your average fan of the game.

Now things are pretty delicate right now: this is the worst selling 2 months ever for konami and fifa is literally killing them right now (pes practically isn't selling anymore, had a weak first weeks and now is dead, fifa is still a top selling game). I expect a very solid christmans for fifa and a depressing one for pes.

Pes reputation is seriuosly damaged among the average consumers and it is pretty shaken among the most devoted fan base.

My guess is that after christmas Konami might make radical changes to the team if the sales keep being so poor.
 
there are some facts going on this year, and more will happen for sure next year
Pes producer, Enamoto, was promoted as Konami vice president, Seabass saying that next Pes will be very different, rumours (in fact, they are more than rumours) about a new engine

I think they understood something must be done otherwise pes will be easily forgotten. If i'm wrong and they are too stubborn and will continue to tweak the actual game engine people will simply not buy the game anymore or buy Fifa.
Anyway, the problem for Seabass and his team is not people buying Fifa, it's diehard pesfans not buying the game and preferring to stay without a football game.
In my case next year will be the first i decided to not buy the game at dayone and i see many will follow...
 
Just out of interest I had a look for PES in Game when I was buying Skyrim at the weekend (which is on offer for £22!). There wasn't a single copy in the place, not brand new anyways. Is it not even in the charts now?
 
bluewomble88 said:
Re-release PES 6 (PS2) with brand new graphics = win!
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nope, that wouldn't work at all.
Awkward animations and scripted ball physics exist in PES6 just as well as in new versions. However, exactly because it looks less realistic, the viewer is lot more forgiving to those defects. You can't just slap a new graphics on the old engine, it will completely ruin the illusion.
 
pes6 is a boring arcadish game full of cutbacks and coast to coast. I don't get why people enjoy it so much. pes3 and pes5 are way better.

still we want something new and refreshing.
 
Ektor70 said:
Sales do not prove your point. Pes 2011 sold less than pes 2010 that sold less than pes 2009 that sold less than 2008.

What happened is that pes 2008 and 2009 lived on the expectations, than the reputation started to sink and even if pes 2010 and pes 2011 were better games they were not good enough to reattract your average fan of the game.

Now things are pretty delicate right now: this is the worst selling 2 months ever for konami and fifa is literally killing them right now (pes practically isn't selling anymore, had a weak first weeks and now is dead, fifa is still a top selling game). I expect a very solid christmans for fifa and a depressing one for pes.

Pes reputation is seriuosly damaged among the average consumers and it is pretty shaken among the most devoted fan base.

My guess is that after christmas Konami might make radical changes to the team if the sales keep being so poor.
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Hmmm, if that's true then it must be very worrying for Konami - which is good.....so long as they don't think of ditching the title. I did read in the past that it was one the big earners for them, but perhaps not so much now?

I have no real faith in EA being able to deliver - they've a good engine but have turned it into an overly slick, arcade piece of junk.

PES, for all it's flaws, clunkiness and cpu cheats, still comes closer to feeling like football. Unless another developer comes onto the scene, Konami is still my hope for delivering a proper football sim.

I hope Konami get a wake up call and really pull the finger out in the years ahead. I'd be intrigued to see how much they invest in comparison with EA. I wouldn't be surprised if Konami's manpower and budget for PES is a fraction of that EA have.

It is more than just Seabass working PES, isn't it? (that's a rhetorical question... I think...)
 
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