PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

I definitely found there was little movement at times, so I'd usually switch up where my attacking movement was coming from (must admit I've always enjoyed Centre more than Wide) or look at switching which advanced instructions I was using in the final third.

By the end of the beta I'd settled on moving the French RMF forward, turning them into a SS, moving the LMF back a bit and staggering the RCM (Pogba) and LDM (Kante). A diamond then, but with Lacazette up top, Griezmann as an SS pulled out wide, Payet or Lemar central, and Dembele or Mbappe covering the left flank. I'd then use one of false wingers, hug the touch line or wing rotation. I could also put Defensive on one of the fullbacks or Kante, depending on where the threat looked like it'd come from.

I'd agree that movement could feel a bit lacking when the opponent was well organised, which was why I'd focus on using formations where players would naturally find space, or look at using Long Passing / Counter Attack just to try and unlock the defence before they could settle.
 
romagnoli said:
I definitely found there was little movement at times, so I'd usually switch up where my attacking movement was coming from (must admit I've always enjoyed Centre more than Wide) or look at switching which advanced instructions I was using in the final third.

By the end of the beta I'd settled on moving the French RMF forward, turning them into a SS, moving the LMF back a bit and staggering the RCM (Pogba) and LDM (Kante). A diamond then, but with Lacazette up top, Griezmann as an SS pulled out wide, Payet or Lemar central, and Dembele or Mbappe covering the left flank. I'd then use one of false wingers, hug the touch line or wing rotation. I could also put Defensive on one of the fullbacks or Kante, depending on where the threat looked like it'd come from.

I'd agree that movement could feel a bit lacking when the opponent was well organised, which was why I'd focus on using formations where players would naturally find space, or look at using Long Passing / Counter Attack just to try and unlock the defence before they could settle.
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When I played the beta the opponents who usually beat me had an unnatural formation of 5 forwards pushed up nearly to the byline which looked horrible. . I could defend most of it but the sheer pressure took it's toll. . .the points that I was making were about non support from my own team when attacking . .Pes 2017 provided off the ball movement which the beta didn't even if the opponents defence wasn't well organised and in my view it was to encourage the use of the over exaggerated dribbling . . you shouldn't be able to beat 4 or 5 players dribbling throughout the match, even average players on teams could dribble. .it became a more individual tactic of winning instead of team tactics as in passing and player support. . .don't get me wrong Romagnoli. . I still think it will be a great game . .a lot of people are promoting the idea of having to know how to defend but that will go out the window if a star player can pick up the ball and dribble through your defence using repeated feints which are successful most of the time.
 
Deco said:
Ramaxwy, the only player who could dribble like that in reality regularly was the guy in your profile pic. . . the one and only Maradona .. . .to beat 2 to 3 players is believable. . . to beat 5?. .. absolutely not. . . . and that's what was in the beta. .
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yeah and the gameplay should really try to replicate that then to cater to little ones fantasies.
that's why it's always a breath of fresh air when playing someone who doesn't keep using that as their only way of attack
 
RAMAXWY said:
yeah and the gameplay should really try to replicate that then to cater to little ones fantasies.
that's why it's always a breath of fresh air when playing someone who doesn't keep using that as their only way of attack
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That's what I would be concerned about Ramaxwy. .it takes the teamplay element out of the game.
 
Deco said:
Ramaxwy, the only player who could dribble like that in reality regularly was the guy in your profile pic. . . the one and only Maradona .. . .to beat 2 to 3 players is believable. . . to beat 5?. .. absolutely not. . . . and that's what was in the beta. .
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Honestly it's just because of the new defense system tied in with the fact that 90%+ of the opponents I played in the beta were absolute cans at the game and had no idea how to play it or it was their first game it seemed. When I played somebody who was GOOD or on my level their was no dribbling past 3 or 4 players with ease at all.

The best players in PES 18 will be the the ones who are most skilled at defending.
 
Flame said:
inter and milan were licensed in the game for many years with stadiums
and you could already recognized them as a partnership(unofficial)
don't think the partnership would mean much if we already had them for many years
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sure it would make a difference.
1. better faces
2. better stadium details
 
kilay said:
Broadcast camera is beatiful but that totally change the angle, so the most of my commands input gets wrongs and i fail a lot of basic passages. I'm talking about 2017 IDK if in 2018 the things are changed.
But i really like watch the game from this camera
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i played it on beta and competed. It just takes a while to adjust angles. Same thing with player camera.
 
Gham92 said:
Honestly it's just because of the new defense system tied in with the fact that 90%+ of the opponents I played in the beta were absolute cans at the game and had no idea how to play it or it was their first game it seemed. When I played somebody who was GOOD or on my level their was no dribbling past 3 or 4 players with ease at all.

The best players in PES 18 will be the the ones who are most skilled at defending.
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Well now Gham that's not what I found at all ... it was quite the opposite . . seasoned onliners that I came up against were excellent and abused the 'dribble past everybody tactic' . .it felt like they had the beta a week before me and practised for hours ..it was their speciality to use Greizmann or Neymar and walk through your defender like he was a cone used for training.. . .first time players or newbees had no idea how to do that.. you're fooling yourself if you believe that. I'm well able to defend but these guys had a mirror and comb out while they dribbled.
 
Deco said:
Well now Gham that's not what I found at all ... it was quite the opposite . . seasoned onliners that I came up against were excellent and abused the 'dribble past everybody tactic' . .it felt like they had the beta a week before me and practised for hours ..it was their speciality to use Greizmann or Neymar and walk through your defender like he was a cone used for training.. . .first time players or newbees had no idea how to do that.. you're fooling yourself if you believe that. I'm well able to defend but these guys had a mirror and comb out while they dribbled.
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:LMAO::LMAO::APPLAUD::APPLAUD::TU::TU:
that is exactly the way it felt!!
 
Some nice observations in some of those gifs.

I watched the video where the gifs are taken from and remember thinking it didn't look like that when I was playing the beta, and it wasn't because of how the game was moving or playing. It was quite literally how it looked compared to when I was playing.

I then watched direct capture stuff from E3/World Tour and that didn't look like what I played either. Again, it wasn't the gameplay or entirely flow but simply how it looked, and how that compared to when the image was projecting live on my screen by my playstation. I've also noticed how off-screen recorded footage can look smoother, maybe even more comparable, to that which I actually.

I've come to the conclusion that something just gets lost in translation with footage of football videogames these days, when compared to other games from other genres. Football is obviously more relatable than say Horizon Zero Dawn, so any slight imperfection I'm going to spot a mile off, because I'm hardwired to do so; that maybe because I really do need to play football games in order fully appreciate and critique them. I can forgive my on-screen Nathan Drake for most things, be that in any tiny annoyances in mechanics, movement, setting, what I am doing, and of course look. For whatever reason, all these things matter so much more in a football game and I need time and space to experience all those things trying to work in tandem. A video isn't going to allow that, so every single tiny visual imperfection gets noticed, with many of them proving largely inconsequential once I am playing the game. There is probably a ton of stuff I saw in those E3/World tour videos and from preview videos from previous PES' that I thought looked off, were still there when I actually got to play the game(s) myself, but took a backseat when I was playing the game to the point I never noticed them unless I was looking for them, but even then had no huge detrimental effect to the game I was playing.
 
curdstar said:
Some nice observations in some of those gifs.

I watched the video where the gifs are taken from and remember thinking it didn't look like that when I was playing the beta, and it wasn't because of how the game was moving or playing. It was quite literally how it looked compared to when I was playing.

I then watched direct capture stuff from E3/World Tour and that didn't look like what I played either. Again, it wasn't the gameplay or entirely flow but simply how it looked, and how that compared to when the image was projecting live on my screen by my playstation. I've also noticed how off-screen recorded footage can look smoother, maybe even more comparable, to that which I actually.

I've come to the conclusion that something just gets lost in translation with footage of football videogames these days, when compared to other games from other genres. Football is obviously more relatable than say Horizon Zero Dawn, so any slight imperfection I'm going to spot a mile off, because I'm hardwired to do so; that maybe because I really do need to play football games in order fully appreciate and critique them. I can forgive my on-screen Nathan Drake for most things, be that in any tiny annoyances in mechanics, movement, setting, what I am doing, and of course look. For whatever reason, all these things matter so much more in a football game and I need time and space to experience all those things trying to work in tandem. A video isn't going to allow that, so every single tiny visual imperfection gets noticed, with many of them proving largely inconsequential once I am playing the game. There is probably a ton of stuff I saw in those E3/World tour videos and from preview videos from previous PES' that I thought looked off, were still there when I actually got to play the game(s) myself, but took a backseat when I was playing the game to the point I never noticed them unless I was looking for them, but even then had no huge detrimental effect to the game I was playing.
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I think that is why there is this constant debate of play vs. watch. The problem is that the value of those who watch the game, in the past, were not taken into a serious account. The reason I record all my matches is because I want to learn from them in those moments when I am engrossed, and accept to overlook the irregular behavior; this makes my views complete - and thus not overly biased. I believe those who watch have the intent to contribute to the greater good, but to be credible, they also have to play.

In addition, I feel that you have to pick your battles. I didn't analyze the beta because that was the message, and not the intent of the beta in the first place. It's also not the same environment (or even code) to the offline experience, from user input (movement, tactics, etc) to different animations that could appear contextually.

At the end of the day, the players and watchers need eachother. They need to be on a level playing field of consideration. Much how a coach and player operate. As a coach, you do not have to go and kick the ball to judge what should be done. As a player, you do not have sit on the sidelines to know what you should be doing. I believe that the PES 18 group have started to inch closer to valuing those of us who provide feedback of playing and watching. Even if that wasn't the intent, it's evident that both sides of the community are being listened to.
 
Chuny said:
There isn't.
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Ok,yeah it's the same one that's always been around,that really zooms in,kinda like a second camera,annoying as hell right?
The broadcast I'm referring to is the one that EA has.
To bad,I know you can edit the medium sideline camera to look like a broadcast camera with angles etc,but it's not the same.
Hope they give us more freedom on the final release
 
Matt10 said:
I think that is why there is this constant debate of play vs. watch. The problem is that the value of those who watch the game, in the past, were not taken into a serious account. The reason I record all my matches is because I want to learn from them in those moments when I am engrossed, and accept to overlook the irregular behavior; this makes my views complete - and thus not overly biased. I believe those who watch have the intent to contribute to the greater good, but to be credible, they also have to play.

In addition, I feel that you have to pick your battles. I didn't analyze the beta because that was the message, and not the intent of the beta in the first place. It's also not the same environment (or even code) to the offline experience, from user input (movement, tactics, etc) to different animations that could appear contextually.

At the end of the day, the players and watchers need eachother. They need to be on a level playing field of consideration. Much how a coach and player operate. As a coach, you do not have to go and kick the ball to judge what should be done. As a player, you do not have sit on the sidelines to know what you should be doing. I believe that the PES 18 group have started to inch closer to valuing those of us who provide feedback of playing and watching. Even if that wasn't the intent, it's evident that both sides of the community are being listened to.
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Matt you're a well learned man when it comes to watching and analysing positioning and what not and you're a decent player yourself as I've watched vids of your gameplay. . .one point that I have to make is this. . since you've become pally with B man and co. you have watered down your critiscism of the game where beforehand you would jump in with strong points and put forward your own views. . .the same goes for B man. . .he was a huge critic of Pes last year but since he became privy to the gameplay and met Adam and co. he has become rather defensive of the views that they trot out, to an observer it looks a bit strange and I'm not trying to put you or B man down or cause an argument .. . it seems that once there is contact with Adam and Asim the critisicism dies down. . .it can't be a coincidence.. .it feels like a sycophantic cosy club where each of you are afraid to take your normal stance with the new game and I don't buy the 'you have to play the game to appreciate it' routine. What's going on with the usual analysis? Both of you can fuck me from a height after this post. .I don't give a fuck what anybody says about me either way but both of your attitudes have changed. . .there is no critiscism from either of you or the other guys on the usual podcast who were also privy to the gameplay. . .nothing ..could you explain please the toning down of the critiscism of the new game?.. . .I have pointed out things which I have found worrying in the gameplay on the beta but it's only my humble opinion but they are valid points . .dribbling is overpowered when using star players and there is no support from midfield when attacking. What's going on Matt? Are you happy with it and is B man happy with the game as it stands? Give us your honest opinion please.
 
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