FIFA/EASFC and PES/eFootball: Contrast & Compare

craney91 said:
EA Sports are copping out with the sliders but whats worse? The paying customer is also unknowingly copping out for them by pushing the sliders as a way of making things better. Thats EA's job.
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Oof, don't agree with that at all about the sliders.

Look at the amount of differing opinions in here. "X is broken", "no it's not", "Y needs to be tweaked", "you need to learn how to play the game"... In the PES thread, I read a post saying "Z happens on Professional and it needs to be patched" - but then Professional would be a harder difficulty, and there would be people shouting "why the hell did you have to piss about with this, Konami". Everyone's got opinions, and if someone gives you the tool to implement your preferences, how is that POSSIBLY harmful?

You're saying it means they're getting lazy with the gameplay - no they're not, they're just not making a game for YOU, or that you'll like. They know exactly what they're doing. They cater for the masses, not you or me, and the masses are casual gamers who play Ultimate Team and want five Ronaldos and ten Messis, all on the pitch at the same time, and goals galore, 3D TV compatibility, and... Those fucking pack-opening animations that EA were bragging about on their Twitter account. "Look, fireworks go off, and there's confetti!" Sorry, it appeals to some people I know, but I read those posts from EA and just go "fuck off", honestly. Can't help it.

Ahem. Anyway.

Those guys have got the game they want, and the tweaks they want (mostly speed, you can burst past defenders again). They're not going to produce an "arcade" FIFA and a "sim" FIFA. We get something that's SOMEWHERE between the two (depending on your opinion), but with the sliders, you can push it more one way than the other.

Without those sliders, I couldn't play the game. With them, I can squeeze out the worst bits and amplify the best bits. It doesn't completely fix anything - it's still, in my opinion, tactically lacking. But that player individuality and everything that's good about it (in my opinion)... You can put together something that's enjoyable, depending on if you like anything about the game in the first place (doesn't sound like you do, which is fair enough - in which case, don't say "get rid of the sliders" because you wouldn't play the game anyway).

Give someone else my sliders and they might go "this is slow as shit, this is boring, why are my passes going astray, this is horrible, switch it back". That's the opposite to my reaction playing the unaltered game (i.e. "this is too fast, this is insane").

Saying "they should make a game without sliders" completely ruins it for everyone outside of the masses. They will never make a game for the hardcore straight off the bat (boot?). But you can make it AT LEAST lean that way using the sliders.

If PES had sliders, you bet people would be putting together some simulation sets - and that, for the guys who were into that, it would improve their experience. If PES had a "pass accuracy" slider, I could instantly make the game against the CPU at least twice more enjoyable. For me, personally.

It wouldn't force you to play with those changes. Only me. So there's no harm whatsoever. This "lazy" argument is nonsense - I'd be calling them lazy if they DIDN'T put the sliders in.
 
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Chris Davies said:
Oof, don't agree with that at all about the sliders.

Look at the amount of differing opinions in here. X is broken, Y needs to be tweaked. In the PES thread, I read a post saying "Z happens on Professional and it needs to be patched" - but then Professional would be a harder difficulty, and there would be people shouting "why the hell did you have to piss about with this, Konami". Everyone's got opinions, and if someone gives you the tool to implement your preferences, how is that POSSIBLY harmful?

You're saying it means they're getting lazy with the gameplay - no they're not, they know exactly what they're doing. They cater for the masses, and the masses are casual gamers who play Ultimate Team and want five Ronaldos and ten Messis, all on the pitch at the same time, and goals galore, 3D graphics, and... Those fucking pack-opening animations that EA were bragging about on their Twitter account. "Look, fireworks go off, and there's confetti!" Sorry, it appeals to some people I know, but I read those posts from EA and just go "fuck off", honestly. Can't help it.

Ahem. Anyway.

Those guys have got the game they want, and the tweaks they want (mostly speed, you can burst past defenders again). They're not going to produce an "arcade" FIFA and a "sim" FIFA. We get something that's SOMEWHERE between the two (depending on your opinion), but with the sliders, you can push it more one way than the other.

Without those sliders, I couldn't play the game. With them, I can squeeze out the worst bits and amplify the best bits. It doesn't fix anything - it's still, in my opinion, tactically lacking. But that player individuality and everything that's good about it (in my opinion)... You can put together something that's enjoyable, depending on if you like anything about the game in the first place (doesn't sound like you do, which is fair enough - in which case, don't say "get rid of the sliders" because you wouldn't play the game anyway).

Give someone else my sliders and they might go "this is slow as shit, this is boring, why are my passes going astray, this is horrible, switch it back". That's the opposite to my reaction playing the unaltered game (i.e. "this is too fast, this is insane").

Saying "they should make a game without sliders" completely ruins it for everyone outside of the masses. They will never make a game for the hardcore straight off the bat (boot?). But you can make it AT LEAST lean that way using the sliders.
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I hear ya mate but PES 2017 aint got sliders yet most people seem to be digging that just the way it is, as gamers and reviewers both seem to suggest? Why is that though I wonder? Is it that Konami made every effort on its core gameplay to make it so that it doesnt need to be tweaked with sliders?

I dont know. Not everyone is chuffed with everything about PES 2017 though either. But it seems more people are happy than not. Whereas it seems the opposite for FIFA. Novelty period at the mo. Give it a month on FIFA and the internet will be lit with people complaining about script and overpowered phases of play....again. For the 50th year running.

From the reviews of FIFA i've seen and read. They're not being too kind on the gameplay and its issues its had for a number of years. Yet PES is getting some serious love in this area.

I know what FIFA is and who its aimed at. I accept that. Thats why I'm happy there is a very good alternative now. For years we never had that.
 
Sliders are a great option. PES2017 doesn't have them but in my opinion could benefit from a handful. As an example, I think shooting and passing, especially crosses into the box from the wing, could both benefit from a slider to reduce their speed slightly. Also, I'd like to be able to reduce the rate at which the power bar fills up as it does so a bit too fast for me. Not mandatory stuff really, but options that would improve the experience.
 
This may sound weird, but my main concern with recent PES titles is, despite them being really fun and addicting to play, it feels like the game isn't being "honest" with people playing it. Flow of the game and physics feel great at first glance, but some time later i start to see so much kinda "scripted" things, especially when it comes to physicality, tackles, fouls(thank God they are back in PES 17 though), interceptions and stuff. Like many of us i moved from FIFA to PES once (PES 3 as i recall) because FIFA didn't allow much freedom on the pitch, while PES felt so unique each game, it still does but not in the big way it used to. Anyway, both games are far from being perfect for me this year, but still very enjoyable. I hope it stays that way
 
Are people really postulating that FIFA's not scripted though? Bloody hell the rubberbanding, button lag, user stat decrease and CPU boost is the worst thing about the game and has been for years. In fact, since the introduction of tactical defending, its cranked up to yet another level. Thats why the game is more suited to human vs. human play now. Tactical defending is an error prone system, which plays fine against another player, online or multiplayer, yet the same laws do not apply to the CPU AI?

I've never ever felt that frustrated or cheated on PES in all the years on Top Player and Superstar. It might provide a bigger challenge, but play well and you can find ways to beat it and if you do get beat, you can get over it, learn from it and improve. Whereas FIFA on higher diffiiculties stunts any of that enjoyment and learning curve. A CPU defence that defends beyond perfect and ping pong football that moves so quick, the ball is a blur, leaving you chasing the ball all match and 2-3 seconds off the pace to do anything about situations. You simply can't change, adjust or tackle quick enough. Unless you are a robot yourself, its virtually impossible to replicate the CPU.

It shouldn't be like that.

Anything the CPU can do on Pro Evo. I feel I can do also, its within reach. Thats called balance.
 
craney91 said:
Are people really postulating that FIFA's not scripted though?
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Never said that(if you are referring to me), FIFA sure has some annoyances, especially when it comes to playing vs AI. What i meant is it feels like the PES engine itself is very weird compared to PS-2 era or FIFA's. Im saying that because my favourite way to play is vs my friends(not online) and we always find matches on FIFA being more "honest" if it makes any sense.

But i totally agree that PES is likely to be more fun when playing vs CPU long-term. My opinion is that in FIFA the AI dictate the flow of the game too much, when PES on the contrary gives user a little more of, like, latitude than needed. The latter definitely being the better option of course, but still no happy medium for my liking
 
goosebuster said:
Never said that(if you are referring to me), FIFA sure has some annoyances, especially when it comes to playing vs AI. What i meant is it feels like the PES engine itself is very weird compared to PS-2 era or FIFA's. Im saying that because my favourite way to play is vs my friends(not online) and we always find matches on FIFA being more "honest" if it makes any sense.

But i totally agree that PES is likely to be more fun when playing vs CPU long-term. My opinion is that in FIFA the AI dictate the flow of the game too much, when PES on the contrary gives user a little more of, like, latitude than needed. The latter definitely being the better option of course
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Not directly at you pal. I've seen it suggested by a few people that see PES 2017 as being scripted, but never mention FIFA 17 is also heavily and that FIFA has struggled with that for some years now.
 
To stick my oar in here, I have to say that the hardcore fans of both titles can be incredibly condescending to each other, with them only unifying in their outright snobbery when it comes to "casuals"

Last I checked, the sport is played by hundreds of millions of people at least, and often watched by even more. Casuals the bulk of them, but "casuals" also know a great deal about football. Why? Because football is one of the most simplest games there is. You don't get the amount of people playing, watching and talking about a sport if it isn't accessible in some shape or form.

I personally think "casuals" would be right to say that neither FIFA or PES don't represent football as they know it (please don't reach for the "But FIFA 20 millions sold" or whatever nonsense), beyond some broadcast assets, with the reason being how neither games mechanics come close to that raw simplicity of playing the beautiful game. Now personally, I think PES this year comes closer than FIFA does in realising that, but is still miles off itself. Brilliant in its own way and a way I can get on board with, granted.

I actually want a game (or either of these games) that encourages MORE casuals to want to play. Not because of guff like TV broadcast authenticity or skillz trickz moves, but simply creating a videogame representation of the real sport that mirrors as best possible the raw simplicity of booting a ball about. That doesn't mean the game would be easy or exploitable by these "casuals", quite the contrary actually, if done right. You do it right then there would be a counter to everything, and also reward for persistence and mastering your style. That isn't going to be realised with sliders, global edits, unlimited editing slots, and sure as shite not Sky Sports TV production values or licensing. You'll get something good, maybe spectacular in its own way having all or a few of these things, but you won't be nailing it.

Honestly, I think both games could do with being paired back when it comes to some off the field stuff, and concentrates more on the on-field fare. The individuality; a depth in tactics; mechanics that are so simple but come with hidden depth and not the need to perform finger and thumb dances to get the dude I am controlling to do certain things. Neither developer has truly thought outside the box for some considerable time.

That said, I obviously don't hate what is being served, but I think it causes some folks to believe it is the only way to go about making these football game thingy's and that is only getting the balance right with the way things are so that the "casuals" don't ruin it.

I want everybody to be able to play football videogames on a very level playing field.
 
What we are talking about. Do you want sales Pes around 8 mln copies? No problem.

Pes 2018 with all premier league stadia and teams

Pes 2018 with full Bundesliga with stadia

Pes 2018 with full La Liga + 6 stadia

Pes 2018 with full Seria A

+ around 25 European stadia

Exactly what has FIFA.

Imagine FIFA 18 with no license......
 
Chris Davies said:
Oof, don't agree with that at all about the sliders.

Look at the amount of differing opinions in here. "X is broken", "no it's not", "Y needs to be tweaked", "you need to learn how to play the game"... In the PES thread, I read a post saying "Z happens on Professional and it needs to be patched" - but then Professional would be a harder difficulty, and there would be people shouting "why the hell did you have to piss about with this, Konami". Everyone's got opinions, and if someone gives you the tool to implement your preferences, how is that POSSIBLY harmful?

You're saying it means they're getting lazy with the gameplay - no they're not, they're just not making a game for YOU, or that you'll like. They know exactly what they're doing. They cater for the masses, not you or me, and the masses are casual gamers who play Ultimate Team and want five Ronaldos and ten Messis, all on the pitch at the same time, and goals galore, 3D TV compatibility, and... Those fucking pack-opening animations that EA were bragging about on their Twitter account. "Look, fireworks go off, and there's confetti!" Sorry, it appeals to some people I know, but I read those posts from EA and just go "fuck off", honestly. Can't help it.

Ahem. Anyway.

Those guys have got the game they want, and the tweaks they want (mostly speed, you can burst past defenders again). They're not going to produce an "arcade" FIFA and a "sim" FIFA. We get something that's SOMEWHERE between the two (depending on your opinion), but with the sliders, you can push it more one way than the other.

Without those sliders, I couldn't play the game. With them, I can squeeze out the worst bits and amplify the best bits. It doesn't completely fix anything - it's still, in my opinion, tactically lacking. But that player individuality and everything that's good about it (in my opinion)... You can put together something that's enjoyable, depending on if you like anything about the game in the first place (doesn't sound like you do, which is fair enough - in which case, don't say "get rid of the sliders" because you wouldn't play the game anyway).

Give someone else my sliders and they might go "this is slow as shit, this is boring, why are my passes going astray, this is horrible, switch it back". That's the opposite to my reaction playing the unaltered game (i.e. "this is too fast, this is insane").

Saying "they should make a game without sliders" completely ruins it for everyone outside of the masses. They will never make a game for the hardcore straight off the bat (boot?). But you can make it AT LEAST lean that way using the sliders.

If PES had sliders, you bet people would be putting together some simulation sets - and that, for the guys who were into that, it would improve their experience. If PES had a "pass accuracy" slider, I could instantly make the game against the CPU at least twice more enjoyable. For me, personally.

It wouldn't force you to play with those changes. Only me. So there's no harm whatsoever. This "lazy" argument is nonsense - I'd be calling them lazy if they DIDN'T put the sliders in.
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and greedy EA is the whole problem! we want it all..
sliders allow developers to put as little time into game play AI development as possible making you the costumer who spent 50-60 dollars, adjusting the game play for them so they don't have to. Konami spent how much time last year tweaking there game and programming AI (the hardest thing in game development) end result better game.
How can adding sliders to PES make it harder for the developers ? it's less work from year to year.
no wonder EA has all this time to make the journey and more presentation.
 
Gunslinger said:
Sliders are a great option. PES2017 doesn't have them but in my opinion could benefit from a handful. As an example, I think shooting and passing, especially crosses into the box from the wing, could both benefit from a slider to reduce their speed slightly. Also, I'd like to be able to reduce the rate at which the power bar fills up as it does so a bit too fast for me. Not mandatory stuff really, but options that would improve the experience.
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the whole point in the power bar being that way is so set pieces aren't easy.
still not sold on sliders
 
craney91 said:
Not directly at you pal. I've seen it suggested by a few people that see PES 2017 as being scripted, but never mention FIFA 17 is also heavily and that FIFA has struggled with that for some years now.
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Yeah unfortunately it seems both EA and KONAMI are ok with limiting player input and tend to bury gameplay basics under lost of animations and contextual stuff. Football games sure look better than ever because of them but simulation-wise are not that far ahead of older iterations
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
and greedy EA is the whole problem! we want it all..
sliders allow developers to put as little time into game play AI development as possible making you the costumer who spent 50-60 dollars, adjusting the game play for them so they don't have to. Konami spent how much time last year tweaking there game and programming AI (the hardest thing in game development) end result better game.
How can adding sliders to PES make it harder for the developers ? it's less work from year to year.
no wonder EA has all this time to make the journey and more presentation.
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If Pro Evo adds sliders you can start to kiss goodbye to anything its progressed on recently because it will go the same way FIFA has. Stagnation thus regression.

A game that just stands still year after year is inexcusable.

Which is basically what FIFA has been doing and now the sorry sight is seeing its players excuse and aplogize for it by tweaking the core game every year. EA got em hook n' line. You've gotta be smarter than that guys if you wanna see this gameplay properly benefit. Start doing that right now if you want a better game. It took Konami years to get back here.

I mean the people that posting here in favour of FIFA are mostly all messing with sliders or "can't wait to tweak them"

The games not even out worldwide yet, some people dont even have the game yet and they're preoccupied with the sliders for the game and what they're gonna do to them when they have it. Some have even suggested thd game is unplayable out the box.

How bad does that sound!

In fact I dont think these type of players can even say they're playing "FIFA 17"....the game will lie underneath everything you've done to it.
 
I think both games are scripted. If they weren't you would figure out how the AI plays and win every game. Until we get proper Adaptive AI, scripting is the only way games will be interesting and a challenge regardless of how unfair that may sound.
 
sliders are a great addition and let you tweak the game how you see fit..its nothing to do with lazy developers its them releasing a base game and giving you customisable options ..pes already have them just not to the depths of fifa..game speed, pass assistance, through ball type..these are all sliders in very basic form
 
hitmanuk said:
sliders are a great addition and let you tweak the game how you see fit..its nothing to do with lazy developers its them releasing a base game and giving you customisable options ..pes already have them just not to the depths of fifa..game speed, pass assistance, through ball type..these are all sliders in very basic form
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Maybe the base game should be free then?

Then they can pay me each year to the tune of billions to fix it?

Sounds good.
 
Chris Davies said:
Oof, don't agree with that at all about the sliders.

Look at the amount of differing opinions in here. "X is broken", "no it's not", "Y needs to be tweaked", "you need to learn how to play the game"... In the PES thread, I read a post saying "Z happens on Professional and it needs to be patched" - but then Professional would be a harder difficulty, and there would be people shouting "why the hell did you have to piss about with this, Konami". Everyone's got opinions, and if someone gives you the tool to implement your preferences, how is that POSSIBLY harmful?

You're saying it means they're getting lazy with the gameplay - no they're not, they're just not making a game for YOU, or that you'll like. They know exactly what they're doing. They cater for the masses, not you or me, and the masses are casual gamers who play Ultimate Team and want five Ronaldos and ten Messis, all on the pitch at the same time, and goals galore, 3D TV compatibility, and... Those fucking pack-opening animations that EA were bragging about on their Twitter account. "Look, fireworks go off, and there's confetti!" Sorry, it appeals to some people I know, but I read those posts from EA and just go "fuck off", honestly. Can't help it.

Ahem. Anyway.

Those guys have got the game they want, and the tweaks they want (mostly speed, you can burst past defenders again). They're not going to produce an "arcade" FIFA and a "sim" FIFA. We get something that's SOMEWHERE between the two (depending on your opinion), but with the sliders, you can push it more one way than the other.

Without those sliders, I couldn't play the game. With them, I can squeeze out the worst bits and amplify the best bits. It doesn't completely fix anything - it's still, in my opinion, tactically lacking. But that player individuality and everything that's good about it (in my opinion)... You can put together something that's enjoyable, depending on if you like anything about the game in the first place (doesn't sound like you do, which is fair enough - in which case, don't say "get rid of the sliders" because you wouldn't play the game anyway).

Give someone else my sliders and they might go "this is slow as shit, this is boring, why are my passes going astray, this is horrible, switch it back". That's the opposite to my reaction playing the unaltered game (i.e. "this is too fast, this is insane").

Saying "they should make a game without sliders" completely ruins it for everyone outside of the masses. They will never make a game for the hardcore straight off the bat (boot?). But you can make it AT LEAST lean that way using the sliders.

If PES had sliders, you bet people would be putting together some simulation sets - and that, for the guys who were into that, it would improve their experience. If PES had a "pass accuracy" slider, I could instantly make the game against the CPU at least twice more enjoyable. For me, personally.

It wouldn't force you to play with those changes. Only me. So there's no harm whatsoever. This "lazy" argument is nonsense - I'd be calling them lazy if they DIDN'T put the sliders in.
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Absolutely perfectly said, Chris.
 
PES desperately needs sliders especially for the shooting - scoring goals still looks and feels automated, even on advanced shooting.

I think that's the issue for me - the game flows nicely but the most important thing about the game, scoring a goal, still feels empty and has done for years.

I Just don't get the same feeling that I do with FIFA when I smash the ball in and that net noise oooh mamma!
 
Both games are literally the opposite this year.

PES brilliant gameplay, absolute farce everywhere else off the pitch.

FIFA, incredible atmosphere and The Journey looks so good i might even buy fifa, absolute disgrace on the pitch.

Crying out for both to work together!
 
I've been a big fan of Matt's sliders. They were so good that I overlooked the fact that Bournemouth played like Barcelona.

But this year, PES has really exposed that flaw, taking "player ID" and "team ID" to the next level. I played a cup game between Liverpool and Norwich, and it played out as you'd expect. The Liverpool players obviously had the superior quality and Norwich tried to beat that with effort. But the difference between the two teams was tangible.

In FIFA, Norwich would keep the ball a lot with precision, power passing that you can't do anything about. I might win with Liverpool, but I'd feel like Norwich were the better team because they were able to pass-pass-pass.

Yet again, FIFA plays a tidy game of football. But it's the same tidy game again and again and again. For example, there's no incentive to play any long ball in FIFA. The game usually makes sure that there's a short pass available to you. And there's no point in selecting the "long ball" tactic because "possession" works the best in every match, no matter who's playing.
 
Played more PES 2017 ML last night as I couldn't sleep.

Started a ML with Spurs. Played a few matches on Superstar.

Game just feels prehistoric now. Animations are awful, shooting is still too overpowered and I simply can't get over how awful it is graphically. Those pitches are a real immersion killer, I can't get over what Konami were thinking?

The players faces whilst very detailed, look gormless and weird. For example, when they line up and CL anthem plays, their animations of the facial movements look like something from Thomas the Tank Engine.

giphy.gif
 
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Final Pass said:
Played more PES 2017 ML last night as I couldn't sleep.

Started a ML with Spurs. Played a few matches on Superstar.

Game just feels prehistoric now. Animations are awful, shooting is still too overpowered and I simply can't get over how awful it is graphically. Those pitches are a real immersion killer, I can't get over what Konami were thinking?
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Agree with the shooting , too many accurate long shots with power and some of the visuals ate terrible ..on my 4k tv day looks OK but night horrible ..fifa looks immense on it I'm just not sure on fifas gameplay this year
 
hitmanuk said:
Agree with the shooting , too many accurate long shots with power and some of the visuals ate terrible ..on my 4k tv day looks OK but night horrible ..fifa looks immense on it I'm just not sure on fifas gameplay this year
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I haven't played the full game of FIFA 17 yet, just the demo. If EA patch it and speed the thing up, I won't be playing any football game for long this year.
 
Knowing EA they will speed it up. The Ultimate Team Kids who love fast paced action and who always get their parents to buy card packs for them so they can get Bale, Ronaldo, Messi etc and have a hard on over them. They will moan like crazy "Oh its too slow.. I don't like it" and EA will bow to them and speed it up like they have done previously. One FIFA in recent times was set at a reasonable pace to begin with (might have been 16).... but then... a patch comes out a few days later and it made the game run at 200MPH

EA FFS if you must bow down to the kids, please apply the Arcade Speed setting to FUT or FIFA Ultimate Team or FIFA Card Game for Kids.... leave Career Mode, Head to Head Seasons and Co-Op Seasons ALONE!

Thanks
Bye.
 
hitmanuk said:
sliders are a great addition and let you tweak the game how you see fit..its nothing to do with lazy developers its them releasing a base game and giving you customisable options ..pes already have them just not to the depths of fifa..game speed, pass assistance, through ball type..these are all sliders in very basic form
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Absolutely this!
If there was no "manual passing" option in PES 2017, I would skip it and gave FIFA another year.
No matter how a step up of 2016 it is...but the accurate passing on PA1 is my major gripe in this game.
Yet the core (game speed, player animations) is something I prefer it over FIFA...but partly only.
But the passing...sry I have to repeat it over and over again "bowling ball on ice, laser guided bullshit" since PES 2015.
In Pes 2014 it was good actually and didn´t look that awkward.
In fact, I´m one of the few people who liked PES 2014, even it had so many bugs.
But seeing PES 2015 going into another direction again - instead of ironing out the issues of 2014 - got me really disappointed, that´s why I skipped 2015 and 2016 and enjoyed FIFA 15 (even with the ugly bodybuilder-models) and 16.

I know that many other people don´t have a problem with assisted passing in PES but sry... to me personally it hurts my eyes.
The players don´t even have to take a step to receive the ball.
I was being forced into playing manual. It took me some time, I got it mastered to some extent and I´m glad that I did as I enjoy it so much more now.

Actually there are two good footy games out there. Two with pros and cons...it´s up to us to decide.
I like PES 2017 but I don´t blindly defend KONAMI in any of their decisions. In fact I have a lot of critics for them.
Same with EA.

Each to their own...we have different opinions, needs and expectations.
Been through the last pages...a lot of things I agree on and some things I don´t.

Good to have that like button now, but a dislike button would be good too, as some people have a strange undertone in their posts.
 
Ive pre-ordered FIFA17 and it will be sent today but I'm returning unopened. PES17 has the game play this year and I just see Fifa - as amazing as it looks and sounds - frustrating the life out of me.

Played a Manc derby in the CL mode last night on PES and it was a great game.

Such a shame that PES don't have the stadiums as FIFA looks amazing on that front. But for me, the gameplay is way behind PES.

PES isn't perfect and there still some horrible animations that need to be updated but I find myself enjoying it a whole lot more than Fifa.
 
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