FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

No, I get that feeling sometimes too, and I think it has all to do with the fact that Pro Passing decreased the power of many passes and added a bouncing bobble. Both games I think are a little off with its implementation of passing - FIFA being too weak and slow and PES being too zippy and direct (and some of the worst of FIFA's ping-pong passing from a couple years back looks to have possibly made its way into PES - I've seen quite a number of perfect 180 passes.)

Turning off passing power assistance in FIFA's control settings actually helps to make passing *look* more realistic, but then you have to deal with too little passing error. For me, with PES it's just an issue of tweaking and refining, whereas in FIFA passing is all sorts of screwed-up at the moment... but it's not the ball physics that are the problem but the retarded way they implemented Pro Passing. And sadly playing manual in FIFA 11 only compounds the problem, whereas it used to be the fix for the worst of FIFA's passing woes.

On a positive note, I noticed in one of the FIFA gameplay videos that player match ratings appears to be changed - the guy won and all his players had 7+ ratings, with his forwards having something like 8 or 9s. That's great news, especially for us CM fans with its implications for morale, form and player growth, and who are used to having to score a hat-trick to get our striker's a 7!
 
Does anyone know where we will be able to see the players form and morale? Is it like PES used to have with smiley faces for morale and arrows for form in the team management? Or is it hidden in the players tab information or something?
 
I've said it before, but for me both a) the AI passing forwards all the time and b) ping-pong passing being 'facilitated' is as much, if not more down to the behaviour of players defending away from the ball.

The AI passes forwards because a forward pass is always on - it's hardly going to ignore it if it's available. Pinging one-or-two-touch passing is possible/easy because the next teammate is always open.

The day that either game starts treating pressure less as a 1-v-1 thing and more as a team operation, and realises that marking and getting tight off the ball is as important for midfielders as it is for defenders, then we might see the ball being moved tactically.

In the meantime we get weak attempts like Pro Passing to handicap the act of passing, which, while being a factor, overlooks an equally fundamental problem.

In FIFA11, if you can ever juggle your players carefully enough to deny the AI all forward options, the AI will turn and go sideways or backwards if necessary. It's just that achieving this for more than a fleeting moment is impossible, because it's like spinning plates - one of your AI drones will inevitably stand off and the ball will go forward to that open man. And there are no tactical instructions related to marking tightly.

Ideally what we'd see is players matching up intelligently against their opposite numbers, within the team's shape. Intelligent enough to get tight when appropriate, without being pulled out of shape into a random mess. Deep forwards picking up opposing defensive midfielders if told to. Central midfielders pressing opposing central midfielders to deny them the ball, rather than just reacting when the ball arrives.

Then passing the ball will require patience; watch & wait for your teammate to create separation... and time the delivery of the pass to match the run. Players with good movement will become valuable, as will those who influence movement. As will those who are good at marking! As will altering your tactics to get a player 'between the lines', or a numerical advantage somewhere.

Football Manager does this fascinatingly well, but for so long we've been stuck with football action games which do not (or cannot) apply this awareness and anticipation to players who aren't immediately engaged with the ball.

(I posted a thread about all this on the EA forums a few months back, fwiw. The Youtube video has been taken down, unfortunately, but the images still work.)

So we end up with halfway attempts at physically slowing down ball movement, or AI opponents who pack extra people behind the ball as a substitute for proper defending, but none of that will solve anything while such inherent looseness always lends towards endless counter-attacking and constant vertical play. (That, and the short match periods influencing a desire for more action more quickly).
 
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TikTikTikTikTik said:
I won't go off on a rant but place a bet with everyone in here;

Whoever spots the AI making a backwards pass to keep possesion will get a 100euro's*


*Obviously I'm not serious.....but then again the AI won't pass the ball back anyway so there is no chance I'll lose the bet! People can go on about the AI being low, but the inherent football "intelligence" in the engine won't drastically change imo. So far the only difference I'm seeing is that the AI will pass more sideways to keep possesion. But never back....check it out, they won't make a backwards pass. The teammates HAVE to be equal or ahead of them. So you get that they will either get clsoed down and lose the ball, or they will JUST make it because the AI managed to move a mm ahead of the player in possesion before a tackle comes in. That's it! Utter sh!t.
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YouTube - FIFA 12, BVB vs Arsenal, Cinematic and Gameplay vs CPU, XBOX 360 (gamescom 2011, Media Day)

Here ya go fella. I'll take a cheque :-) goes back a few times in this vid. Also is higher level than amateur because defence is slightly better. the pressure looks perfect now. Just 1-2s still not being tracked well enough. In the second half AI does some nice close control moves to beat a man, not skill moves.

Looks a bit betterin this vid.
 
You won't hear any arguments from me. I think there's more to it, like first touch and directional error, but I have no issue with the theory that defensive marking if properly implemented would have a huge impact on how the game is played.
 
johnny_on said:
YouTube - FIFA 12, BVB vs Arsenal, Cinematic and Gameplay vs CPU, XBOX 360 (gamescom 2011, Media Day)

Here ya go fella. I'll take a cheque :-) goes back a few times in this vid. Also is higher level than amateur because defence is slightly better. the pressure looks perfect now. Just 1-2s still not being tracked well enough. In the second half AI does some nice close control moves to beat a man, not skill moves.

Looks a bit betterin this vid.
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volley at 6:30 was nice would never have happened in fifa 11

seen some examples of the human player in that video trying to charge into tackles and getting beaten easily by the ai, hopefully a sign that human torpedos will be less of an issue now
 
johnny_on said:
goes back a few times in this vid. Also is higher level than amateur because defence is slightly better.

In the second half AI does some nice close control moves to beat a man, not skill moves.
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Does look improved over FIFA11 in terms of the AI with the ball at his feet, protecting possession a bit better.
 
johnny_on said:
YouTube - FIFA 12, BVB vs Arsenal, Cinematic and Gameplay vs CPU, XBOX 360 (gamescom 2011, Media Day)

Here ya go fella. I'll take a cheque :-) goes back a few times in this vid. Also is higher level than amateur because defence is slightly better. the pressure looks perfect now. Just 1-2s still not being tracked well enough. In the second half AI does some nice close control moves to beat a man, not skill moves.

Looks a bit betterin this vid.
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That's Arsenal being controlled by the CPU there. They pass 'backwards' three or four times, but pretty much exclusively at only a slight angle further backwards from horizontal. More like how rugby passes are usually slightly backwards, rather than a mostly reversed pass.

This should be one of the most extreme examples of backwards passing to retain possession, lots of one-twos between people at different heights up the pitch in order to draw pressers towards the more advanced player and create gaps for others to exploit. As you can see though, that just isn't happening.


I'm hearing that flair passing is still in the game and just as pin-point as it was in earlier code. Really, really hope that isn't true; Aaron told us it was far more prone to error than normal passing. He also said the same was happening for tricks. So either what we're seeing here is just the code we played back in July, or they haven't done what they said they would. Fingers crossed it isn't the latter.
 
retronym said:
animations are godly it has to be said, i've noticed quite a few new turning animations which makes it seem harder to just instantly change direction without regard to momentum and inertia

the shooting still has that horrible jarring issue with the camerapace looks much more measured than the pes2012 vids, so it cant just be down to youtube compression
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And I thought it was just me that noticed that when I play FIFA! Can anyone explain it? Is it like the frames drop or something? Ruins what otherwise would be a nice goal sometimes.
 
Whos this player?
297468_239021412803095_208310235874213_673360_2043685_n.jpg
 
Some of the later vids are great. The presentation is lovely now and the gameplay actually looked entertaining. Finally happy at something :lol:

I just hope EA don't fux things with the flair passing nonsense.
 
Do you guys know if the new wunderkind "GOTZE" has been scanned? I'm gussing so being in the German national team. Wish EA just scanned teams the saem time as sky sports record player intro's. would speed this process up 10fold.
 
johnny_on said:
YouTube - FIFA 12, BVB vs Arsenal, Cinematic and Gameplay vs CPU, XBOX 360 (gamescom 2011, Media Day)

Here ya go fella. I'll take a cheque :-) goes back a few times in this vid. Also is higher level than amateur because defence is slightly better. the pressure looks perfect now. Just 1-2s still not being tracked well enough. In the second half AI does some nice close control moves to beat a man, not skill moves.

Looks a bit betterin this vid.
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Definitely better AI being shown here probably because it's set at World Class. The CPU starts off being aggressive but focused mainly on covering passing angles after scoring the first goal, allowing the player for some possession play...which is neat. And the AI actually turns around, dribbles back and made a pass to the rightback when its was freakin obvious it ran out of options in front (6:48) haha! And I like that the AI mistimed its header (7:23) because I hate how its usually perfect at receiving them on clearances..
 
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mfmaxpower said:
the ball still too closely resembles a marble on a perfect surface rather than a football, but something about passing in PES still really bothers me.
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Didn't want to bring this up in here, but since you've mentioned it I might as well respond. If I haven't played it and only watched some of the horrible vids here I would've said the same. Having played it though, it is far from being that, marble on glass. In fact, what impressed me most in my playtest was the passing. It is something that I liked in Fifa and wanted to see in PES. It is the first thing I've noticed, because of the way the ball behaves traveling along the pitch and how it bobbles, like in Fifa. Maybe its due to switching off passing assistance though, as I can't be too sure because I've played most my games this way.

But yea, try the demo out, switch off player assistance, and see if its still an issue for you. I'd surely try both assistance and no assistance for comparison sake.
 
Lami said:
Didn't want to bring this up in here, but since you've mentioned it I might as well respond. If I haven't played it and only watched some of the horrible vids here I would've said the same. Having played it though, it is far from being that, marble on glass. In fact, what impressed me most in my playtest was the passing. It is something that I liked in Fifa and wanted to see in PES. It is the first thing I've noticed, because of the way the ball behaves traveling along the pitch and how it bobbles, like in Fifa. Maybe its due to switching off passing assistance though, as I can't be too sure because I've played most my games this way.
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This can't be stressed enough. I can never get used to PES's weird ball deceleration with each touch/knock on, and its consistent too so you can kinda predict each time how far in front the ball will slow to a stop. Fifa does a good job at introducing realistic variations in height and speed when the ball is passed around but the problem that stems from this is that players don't have enough types of animation to handle those variations, like different ways to trap with the thigh or chest,etc.
 
True. My problem with Fifa's passing is only power, even if I power it to the max it still feels like its limited.
 
I don't know if it's present on FIFA 12 but one animation that really really gets under my skin is when the AI has the ball and turns to look for another option. it makes these weird arcs where it goes back and forth where a real player or even human controlled FIFA player might step on the ball and look up. Does anyone know the thing I mean? Like the guy is dribbling through cones slowly.

I could look for a video or try making one. I like the fact that they try retaining possession but it has to be the weirdest looking thing around haha
 
That last FIFA video looked much better. It will be interesting to see how the game plays when turning down the acceleration slider A LOT, it might solve some issues (even possible some of the momentum issues). The AI is still too static it seems, but I got the impression from that video that the keepers were less scripted in their saves.
 
johnny_on said:
YouTube - FIFA 12, BVB vs Arsenal, Cinematic and Gameplay vs CPU, XBOX 360 (gamescom 2011, Media Day)

Here ya go fella. I'll take a cheque :-) goes back a few times in this vid. Also is higher level than amateur because defence is slightly better. the pressure looks perfect now. Just 1-2s still not being tracked well enough. In the second half AI does some nice close control moves to beat a man, not skill moves.

Looks a bit betterin this vid.
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Tnx, I counted 4 diagonal "back" passes and 2 complete back passes. It looks better then 11, that's for sure. However I would also expect Arsenal to have one of the highest possesion ratings in the game so that dampends any enthousiasm for me.

@ Nerf,
You could see the Dortmund player standing off and making the AI keep more possesion, however I do find that you're the one than forcing how the AI plays, or in other words, you choose whether you let the AI have possesion or just tackle and win the ball back. It's still weak.
 
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TikTikTikTikTik said:
Tnx, I counted 4 diagonal "back" passes and 2 complete back passes. It looks better then 11, that's for sure. However I would also expect Arsenal to have one of the highest possesion ratings in the game so that dampends any enthousiasm for me.

@ Nerf,
You could see the Dortmund player standing off and making the AI keep more possesion, however I do find that you're the one than forcing how the AI plays, or in other words, you choose whether you let the AI have possesion or just tackle and win the ball back. It's still weak.
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You gotta remember that when the AI turned back to keep possession was when it was supposed too. All the other times it went forward was because the guy playing couldn't defend or didnt have enough men back.

I'm the first to slag EA when they mess up but this looks to be something they have sorted or at least tried to. Just like pressure has actually gone now.

I know we forever moan on here, mostly rightly so, but i can see they are making (baby) steps in the right direction.
 
TikTikTikTikTik said:
@ Nerf,
You could see the Dortmund player standing off and making the AI keep more possesion, however I do find that you're the one than forcing how the AI plays, or in other words, you choose whether you let the AI have possesion or just tackle and win the ball back. It's still weak.
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It has a lot to do with the new tackling system imho. In all the FIFA12 gameplay videos I've seen so far, there've been PLENTY of instances where the player would rush in only to contain within a short distance, and that's probably because holding down the pressure button now doesn't result in an automated tackle. That alone leads to both the player and CPU in that video having long durations of possession play, which is a refreshing change from the tackle fest of previous games.
 
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