World Cup 2010 - The Argentina Thread - Una pasion unica

Discussion in 'FIFA World Cup 2010' started by ALBICELESTE2010, 14 May 2010.

  1. PIPA23

    PIPA23 retired :)

    21 June 2007
    I think Messi and the captain armband are meant to be...
     
  2. lo zio

    lo zio International

    24 October 2005
    Palermo
    yep. i don't know if it was mourinho who asked for him or valdano (from what i heard mourihno is strongly interested in di maria), but the offer was official. zamparini himself reported it. http://www.corrieredellosport.it/calcio/mondiali_2010/2010/06/22-117290/Zamparini%3A+Cavani+e+Kjaer+lasceranno+Palermo
    yeah i know it's not reciprocal. argentinian fans have all the right to complain about italy "stealing" sivori and angelillo back in the days (afterall the same could be said about camoranesi today).

    as for the argentinian anthem being booed in the italy '90 final, there was a history behind that. u see that final was played in roma. back in those days there was a huuge rivalry between napoli and roma, and since diego was napoli's heart and soul, booing diego's anthem was a way for the romans to insult napoli.
    but that was just about roma. the majority of the country was supporting argentina in that final. actually the bond between argentina and italy is so strong here in italy that there were many italians (especially in napoli) who were supporting argentina even in the semi-final vs italy (i'm not kidding here!).
    the entire country despised the romans for booeing the argentinian anthem. the national blame over the roman fans was on the first page of pretty much every newspaper the day after
    i still remember the tv camera swinging to maradona's face during that anthem. u don't have to be much of a lip-reader to understand what he's saying. just watch this vid at 0.35. :P
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svEx6iCV1s8
    (well said diego!)
    the day after the final diego remarked that disgusting episode. he thanked the napoletani for their support and blamed the romans for their behaviour. i remember he said something like "roma does not exsist anymore to me. from today on italy will be only napoli". people in napoli are still mad at the romans for this episode.
    anyway, make no mistake. that was not italy insulting argentina. that was the romans trying to hurt the napoletani... even though in a very weird, stupid and disrespectful way.

    apart from that awful episode, for every italian (well, for every southern italian) argentinians are hermanos. actually as a matter of fact most of south italians do really have an argie relative. i have argentinian parents myself. my grandpa's brother moved to argentina 70 years ago (he was an italian resistence fighter, escaping from the nazis), and, as a result of that, today i have 2 uncles, 2 aunts and 5 cousins born and raised in argentina. lovely people. i had a chance to finally meet em and reconnect a few years ago during my trip in south america.

    sorry for the little off topic :P

    as for the argentina players with italian roots, it's not just about messi and cambiasso. pastore, zanetti, di maria, bolatti, mascherano, milito, palermo... they all have italian roots. i know argies are still mad for the romans booeing the anthem in that final, but blood doesn't lie, we are brothers, and all those italian names in your national team prove it. :))
     
  3. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford
    I never knew all these background facts lo zio. Many, many thanks for all the fascinating insight and knowledge regarding that incident amigo. It makes things clearer in my mind.:))

    And thanks for the link as well. :TU:

    As I reiterate better for him to stay at Palermo and learn his craft further. Playing in serie A has certainly improved his tactical discipline. Even with Mourinho at Real you never know what sort of circus it could descend into.

    Too many young players have gone there and been affected adversely. ;)

    You aer right the filial links are very strong indeed still.
     
  4. lo zio

    lo zio International

    24 October 2005
    Palermo
    yeah i agree with u. one more year in palermo can only do good to him. plus rossi (palermo's coach) is a real teacher. he can really help him improve, while mourinho just couldn't do it.

    however javier is a smart kid. he knows what's best for him. one year ago, he could choose between palermo and man utd. he chose palermo coz he knew here he would have got a better chance to improve himself as a player.
    u don't see often a 19 years old kid turning down an offer from a top club like man utd (and giving up to a much bigger paycheck), just to get more playtime and chances to improve himself. it sure takes a lot of confidence and brains to take such a decision :))
     
  5. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    I didn't know Pastore has Italian roots too. Some of the other ones are really obvious though.
     
  6. lo zio

    lo zio International

    24 October 2005
    Palermo
    yup. "pastore" is actually an italian word (it means "shepherd" in english).
     
  7. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    I see. I guess we know what the occupation of his ancestors were as well then. :D :P

    p.s. Anyone else think he looks a little like Roque Santa Cruz. :P Like a younger version. I think the hairstyle has a lot to do with it though.
     
  8. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford
    You're absolutely right lo zio. He did the right thing then.

    I think Cappa must be credited too. He was a former basketballer turned footballer and central midfielder and worked with him at Huracan to improve his overall team game.

    Javier likes to learn and seemingly has no fear either. Diego said he has seen many young kids crumble but that Javier is like a seasoned veteran of several world Cups. So the kid is also mentally tough.

    Good news for Argentina he and Ever decided to turn away from basketball.
     
  9. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford

    I was looking at some team photographs of Argentina from 1970-2000 and I am sure I saw a lookalike of Pastore in there. Almost like a doppelganger.

    Trying to find it again without luck.
     
  10. lo zio

    lo zio International

    24 October 2005
    Palermo
    actually i believe that's his very best asset. every generation there are a handful of hugely talented youngsters. but a kid with such composure, such mental strenght and coolness is a gem.

    i was stunned by the instant impact he had in palermo. he didn't need a week to adapt himself to his new experience. he has been playing on an awesome standard from day one.
    the only player i've seen in my life who had such an impressive debut was de rossi. but then again de rossi didn't have to change country and leave his parents and friends... hell he didn't even had to move to a different city!
    :CONFUSE: i never noticed that. he actually does!:D
     
    Last edited: 24 June 2010
  11. voxel

    voxel ---

    15 February 2006
    Argentina
    Racing Club de Avellaneda
    You got a gem there in Palermo.

    For better or worse, he doesn't know different than pure class, which probably pisses of his own fans and teammates at times.

    Still he's always been a joy to watch and probably my favourite homegrown player in the last few years. Not always trying to do the most effective play, but always the one the opposition does not expect. Just pure fun to watch him.

    I hope he gets a chance to play on Sunday.
     
  12. bebo

    bebo Looking for a Manager

    25 July 2005
    Arsenal Thread
    The Arsenal FC
    where`s the Padawan Palacio the name we call him in the states, my favorite Boca poacher
     
  13. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford
    Genoa.

    Reasonable enough season but never in Diego's sights. He's behind di Maria and Perotti for that role now anyway so it's going be hard to make it back to the seleccion.
     
  14. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    Yeah doesn't deserve to be in national team to be honest. Good player but Argentina is gifted with even better options.
     
  15. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford
    Just for fun our second XXIII:
    GK: Gabbarini(Independiente),Speroni(Crystal Palace),Carizzo (Real Zaragoza)

    DF: Zanetti(Internazionale), Angeleri(Estudiantes),Garay (Real Madrid), Gabi Milito (Barcelona), Forlin (Espanyol), Galeano (Independiente), Ansaldi (Rubin Kazan), Zabaleta (Manchester City)

    MF: Banega(Valencia), Cambiasso(Internazionale), Gago (Real Madrid)Perotti(Sevilla), Salvio (Atletico Madrid),Aimar(Benfica),
    Gaitan (Benfica)

    FW: Saviola (Benfica),Jara(Benfica),Boselli(Estudiantes), Lisandro(Lyon) Zarate (Lazio) or Maxi Lopez (Catania)


    Lucho Gonsalez and Fazio would be on the fringes.
    :P ;)
     
    Last edited: 25 June 2010
  16. Aboutreika18

    Aboutreika18 Too Black, Too Strong

    5 September 2006
    Here's mine:

    ----------------Leo Franco
    -----------------------
    Zabaleta-------Garay-----Milito-------Zanetti
    ------------------------------------------
    -----------------Cambiasso---------------
    ----------Lucho------------Banega-------
    --------------------------------------------
    Zarate-------------------------------Perotti
    ---------------Lisandro Lopez------------------

    Bench:

    Carrizo
    Piatti
    Aimar
    Ibagaza
    Gago
    Pareja
    Ibarra
    Ansaldi
    Palacio
    Diaz
    Saviola
    Angeleri

    What an absolutely ridiculous amount of talent, particularly further up the pitch.

    EDIT: ALBICELESTE2010, I'm guessing you're an Argentinian living in England?
     
    Last edited: 25 June 2010
  17. The_Special_One

    The_Special_One I like Unicorns

    17 August 2007
    Cascais
    Estoril | Knicks
    My Argentina in FM is way better. :P

    In 2012:
    [​IMG]
     
  18. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford
    Do you want the manager's job TSO ? That's a very nice selection my friend. :)

    Don't rate Insua.E though. While he's decent going forward defensively he has so much to learn.

    AbouTreika18. No I'm English born and bred. Started following Argentina in 1986 as a seven year old and ever since. Nice selection too. That XI could comfortably compete at the WC and the defence would be slightly stronger than what has been selected.

    Forgot about little Piatti. Another good season with Almeria may earn him a move away to a 'bigger' club.

    Lucas Biglia is another excellent central midfielder but needs to move on from Anderlecht.

    And I forgot one of my favourite strikers Cavenaghi. You all heard about Chamakh he's is just as good and if he'd been played reguarly by Blanc this season like last he'd be on his way to serie A or La Liga.

    Regarding Cata Diaz. He's tough but slow as a carthorse. Galeano, Guillermo Burdisso , Munoz and Musacchio and Forlin are great young prospects at centre back. Leo Franco is liable to losing concentration.

    Good news for Argentina fans there are no signs that the pipeline will be drying up anytime soon. Kids like Villalba, Icardi, Araujo ,German Pacheco upfront and at the back like Tagliafico and Espindola highlight this. The Zuculini brothers as well in midfield. Happy days. :WORSHIP:

    A lot of the credit has to go to Pekerman and Tocalli as well as the coaches of all the clubs in Argentina's top two tiers. There is that real problem though of losing kids at too early an age.
     
    Last edited: 25 June 2010
  19. Aboutreika18

    Aboutreika18 Too Black, Too Strong

    5 September 2006
    Ah right, so you basically fell in love with the side as a kid?

    Well you're similar to me in that you're not much of a patriot.

    Surprised Federico Vilar has yet to be capped, he's impressed me whenever I've seen him although at 33 it's unlikely he'll ever be capped, despite being around his peak for a 'keeper.
     
  20. bebo

    bebo Looking for a Manager

    25 July 2005
    Arsenal Thread
    The Arsenal FC
    wow...very common here I see lot of kids here in the US that support England .My boys support England n US even though their mum is Spanish ,but when they go there they wear the espana colors grand pa is a nutter like that. Its hard to support Dom. Rep. :P
     
  21. Aboutreika18

    Aboutreika18 Too Black, Too Strong

    5 September 2006
    That kind of epitomises the bum-boy relationship the Yanks and L'Anglais have.

    Which is why it's great when one of the smaller nations defeats one of them. Iran's victory over the US in '98 still makes me smile, even to this day. :D
     
  22. bebo

    bebo Looking for a Manager

    25 July 2005
    Arsenal Thread
    The Arsenal FC
    it depends really US big nation,but when it comes to footy its small nation. Let say small country of 1 million plays a country of 40 million about 1 million support the game so number wise US is a small nation don`t you think? Landon and Howard are the main stars and most of the world don`t even rate them,but as a squad there getting notice.


    About kids liking England is purely to do w/ Club Gerrard,Rooney,Lampard,Terry they don`t care that they don`t do 100% in their eyes they already legendary. My boys wanted a draw btw US vs UK when gerrard score it was well its Gerrard dad
     
  23. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford

    Oh I am in that sense I support our armed forces, know this nation's history and traditions inside out and it's acheivements in the arts, sciences and humanities of which I am mightily proud and which I might add many of the fans belting out 'Rule Britannia' would not have a scooby about.

    And I support the rugby and cricket sides but no way could I get behind this lot.

    As R.W.Emerson wrote 'the appreciation of beauty is art'. Argentina have for the majority of their history played that way save for a few blips 1974/1990 for example.
     
  24. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford
    Likely line up for Argentina tomorrow:
    ----------------------------Romero----------------------
    ---Otamendi-----Dimichelis----Samuel-----------Heinze
    -------------------------Mascherano---------------------
    ------------Maxi-----------------------------di Maria---
    ----------------------------Messi-----------------------
    -------------Tevez---------------------Higuain----------
     
  25. Aboutreika18

    Aboutreika18 Too Black, Too Strong

    5 September 2006
    Yeah, I get ya. I'm guessing there's been many a time where you've been labelled a "glory hunter" by others? :P
     
  26. The_Special_One

    The_Special_One I like Unicorns

    17 August 2007
    Cascais
    Estoril | Knicks
    An eventual England-Argentina in the quarters is gonna be harsh for you, Albiceleste.

    Is any young talent MC out there? I'm struggling to find a new one (or two) to replace Cambiasso and Lucho. Zuculini is more a MDF, I guess.
    Anothet weak position in Argentina is the RB. In this WC you need to adapt Jonás or Otamendi in that position. Plus, I don't feel confortable with Angeleri. Ansaldi could be an option but he plays better as a LB (where you have many capable players). I'm looking for a new Argentina (both real life and FM :LOL:) as some guys are getting older (mainly your defence).

    By the way (maybe an off-topic question), who the hell is Torsiglieri? Sporting bought this guy, I know he's a CB but I've never heard about him.

    Sorry to bother you with so many questions, hermano. :TU:
     
  27. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford
    Hardly mate. Some people cannot fathom me following Argentina so I have to patiently explain. Meanwhle there are plenty of people who don't mnd sporting Brazilian shirts which I find odd in my turn. :P

    I'll be going to the friendly next year and the one in 2013 too at Wembley which should be great events.

    Its been a very long 17 years without a trophy at senior level ie Copa America or WC. Otherwise four world titles at u20 level ,two Olympics golds and a silver is not too bad.

    TSO you are right about the RB spot.

    Regarding Torsiglieri I have not seen much of him but his release clause seems ridiculous. He's okay in the air, reads the game reasonably well and is left footed and can play awakwardly at left back.

    But I think he's nothing special at the moment compared to others like Galeano or G.Burdisso.

    Taking a young u21 Argentina line up I would play this:
    -------------------------Ojeda-------------------------
    Tagliafico---------Galeano----Munoz/Tobio--------------
    -----------------------F.Zuculini----------------------
    -----------------------------Lamela-------------------
    ---Salvio---------------------------------------Perotti
    --------------------Araujo----Villalba----------------

    Other young defenders to look out for are Guillermo Burdisso and Juan Forlin.

    Bruno Zuculini in midfield is reasonable as is Mouche who has been a bit indifferent this season and also Seba Blanco and Facundo Bertoglio.Upfront I hope de Federico recovers his form and then there is Mori and Cristaldo.

    That should point you in the right direction amigo. :)

    PS it's a hard progression but Mexico are quite capable of pulling off an upset unless the team concentrates and works hard so it's the old adage.

    Each game by game, half by half ,minute by minute.

    Also Samuel is now not going to play tomorrow Burdisso comes in as Diego has decided that it would be better for him to rest more and appear for the quarters.

    However our attack and posession football should pose real problems.
     
  28. The_Special_One

    The_Special_One I like Unicorns

    17 August 2007
    Cascais
    Estoril | Knicks
    What is the opposite of "glory hunter"? cause I support England Rugby team and they never won. :LOL:

    All questions answered amigo. Really nice and simply analysis of the most promising young talents in Argentina.

    Thanks you warning that Samuel isn't going to play tomorrow because I was about to select him in my FIFA Fantasy team.

    You are the favourites for tomorrow's match. However, you should pay atention that Chicharito kid, he impressed me a lot against France. Barrera is another one I take in consideration, good pass skills, fast and smart.

    Suerte chicos.
     
  29. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford
    What about the Portugual rugby team amigo the mighty Wolves ? Really brave and passionate at the last RWC and added a lot of colour to the spectacle.

    Portuguese rugby is moving in the right direction even though you just failed to qualify this time around with more players in France for instance and some very promising youngsters.

    I agree entirely about Barrera and Hernandez and Salcido.
    The aim is to take the fullbacks deep and stifle Gio with Masche to try and cut out Mexico's threat.

    I'm already nervous and tense.
     
  30. ALBICELESTE2010

    ALBICELESTE2010 Champions League

    13 July 2006
    Watford
    Argentina & Watford
    The footwork of tango is in Argentinian football. Here is a more literal take:

    YouTube - Tango y Fútbol

    Team is this:
    ———————Romero———————
    Otamendi——-Demichelis—–Burdisso—-Heinze
    ——————- Mascherano——————
    ————Maxi—————-di Maria——–
    ———————-Messi———————
    —————Tevez———-Higuain———–
     

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