The Retro-PES Corner

It's very difficult to find that balance between feeling the difference between players and not over rating or under rating them. PESSDB is a way of seeing how good a player is aestheticly but can be OP in game. I think your format works very well. Certainly back in the day even yellows or greens were seen as good but on PESSDB they are very common.
 
miguelfcp said:
A couple of things:
- tried out PES2008 PS2 and besides the fact that the ball is less "glued" to the player's feet, everything else seems exactly the same as in PES2009 when it comes to the gameplay. Still, it was just one game so I'll be experimenting a lot with 2008 in the future to understand if after a few dozens of matches I keep my opinion.

- Last night had a wonderful session and after a fantastic match the game crashed, so I spent one hour for nothing. I lost against Utrecht which previously was two points away from me in 3rd place, thanks to that win they clinch the first place which was mine. Then, I play Dynamo Kiev in their stadium (2nd place, two points ahead of us) and I win 3-2, a result that puts me in promotion spots once again with just 4 matches until the end of the season. After the match, the crash.
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Is it crashing on PES2008?
 
@geeeeee: No, the crash was on PES2009.
@mattmid: Interesting system you've got there, I appreciate the explanation. It's a cool idea you brought to the thread, that of using FM stats for the creation of lesser-known players from obscure leagues. I do know that it's not a perfect system - the best for me is still the observation of players in real-life and then transferring that knowledge to the game - but it comes in handy when dealing with really obscure ones.

I think there's an auto-save function, at least on the PSP it exists, but I didn't have it on. Usually I do have it on but since this was supposed to be a kind of a test-ML, I didn't bother with it.
 
miguelfcp said:
@geeeeee: Glad you're enjoying it, I always say this but I encourage you and everyone to write about your adventures too, regardless of the PES versions or game modes one's playing.
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Hi miguel, sorry i forgot to reply to you. Yes i will do some ML posts once i have completed my option file. I am doing an ML test at the moment to make sure it doesn't crash. Been having some fantastic games as usual. We played West Brom and Sturridge got injured for 16 weeks, so basically he is out for the season. Good stuff.
 
Game 5

Mjondalen v Nest-Sotra


Mjondalen go into the game on the back of two defeats after winning their opening two games. They will also be without stiker Bojang who sits out the game after receiving a red card in his last match. With their two wins being over bottom placed Tromsdalen and scoreless Levanger, Nest go into the game hopeful of picking up some points.

Nest will be making a change themselves up front as the misfiring Dang is dropped to the bench and 18yr old Juvik gets the nod to replace him. They are also forced into another change as Furdal is out injured for two weeks. Edvarsen takes his place.


First Half:


Things almost went badly wrong immediately when Bidne missed his head after two minutes letting in the striker behind him but he snatched at the chance and sent it well wide. Then, on 10 minutes, Edvardsen fed the ball into Juvik on the edge of the D. He controlled it nicely, turned and shifted it across the defender before hitting a shot into the right hand corner of the goal! A dream moment for the 18yr old on his debut! 1-0! Edvarsen, who has the beating of his full back every time he gets it, swings in another cross that Rodsland meets with a diving header but it's straight at the keeper. Mjondalen looking dangerous when they are on the ball, but their defence is all over the place at the moment. On 28 minutes Nesse dribbles into the box before playing it back out to the edge where Rodsland strikes it well but it goes just wide. Rodsland, who seems on a personal mission to get a goal today, loops a header onto the roof of the net just before half time before Mjondalen put in two dangerous crosses that are only just scrambled away. Nest go in one goal to the good but feel they may need a second to put this one to bed.

Second Half:

The first 20 mins of the second half passes quickly as the game goes end to end but with both defences doing enough to stop any real chances of note. With 75 minutes gone a neat through ball finds Mjondalen striker, Boye, free in the area and he slipped the ball past Sevlik for the equaliser that to be fair had been coming as Mjondalen pushed men forward. More end to end stuff as both teams look for the win and with 5 minutes to go Juvik gets onto a cross on the corner of the 6yd box running towards the corner but manages to swivel and get in a shot that the keeper does well to turn away from the near post. In the end though neither side can find the breakthrough and it ends 1-1.


A great game, end to end for most of it but with both defences just having the edge most of the time.


M.O.M Rodsand 7.5, Nesse 7.0


Elsewhere Viking had an exellent 3-0 away win at Ullensaker, Kongsvinger won 2-0 and Aalesund picked up a second win. Strommen and Notodden won with Notodden beating the hapless Tromsdalen. Asane and Sandnse shared two goals but the big story of the week was Levanger not only winning but doing so with 2 goals in a 2-1 win against Sogndal.


Viking, with their 100% record, go four points clear of second placed Strommen at the top while Tromsdalen remain rooted to the bottom with a single point from 5 games and already look to be embroiled in a relegation battle. Nest-Sotra are in 11th with 5pts. Four sides remain unbeaten, Viking, Strommen, Notodden and Asane, who have drawn four of their five games.


Game 6:

Nest-Sotra v Floro


Nest host second bottom Floro, who have the leakiest defence so far with 7 conceded. Nest will be gunning for all three points to try to move up into mid-table. Floro have two points so far and for their part will be looking to draw alongside Nest in the table.


Nest-Sotra go with an unchanged line-up



First Half:


Nest-Sotra almost find themselves a goal ahead in the first minute as a mis-hit cross from Edvarsen almost catches the keeper out and he just tips it onto the bar and the follow up shot is wide. Then on three minutes Nesse finds some room and (perhaps having read the earlier thread) hits a beautiful curling shot into the far corner leaving the keeper no chance. 1-0! A good run from Jeggo of Floro ends with a cross shot that just misses the far post as they look to get back in the game. Almsot staright after Floro nearly find themselves back in the game as a bouncing back pass leads to Selvik skying the ball high into the air that a Floro player gets to first but can't direct at goal and the ball is scrambled away. Nest getting a bit complacent and need to settle down. Claims for a penaly for Nest on 22 minutes but they are waved away by the referee. After a couple of Floro shots that went wide, Nest break on 30 minutes, Bjorlo hit a deep cross where Evansgard got above the full back at the far post to nod it back into the six yard box. Juvik met it but the keeper made a point blank save. Fortunately for Juvik it came straight back to him to tap in for 2-0! Then on 38 minutes Edvarsen had the ball in the penalty area and was brought down from behind. This time there was no need for claims as the ref pointed straight to the spot. With Edvarson off for treatment, Juvik stepped up to take the penalty which he blazed over the crossbar!! Floro then nearly got in with a nice ball over the top but the striker had just strayed offside. Cirak then played a neat through ball for Juvik but his shot lacked power and was straight at the keeper. HT 2-0. Nest-Sotra looking very dangerous in attack and with the penalty could have been out of sight. However with Floro also creating chances the next goal could be crucial.


Second Half


The crucial goal almost came straight away as Johanssen sent in a header that grazed the top of the bar. Then Aase of Floro, evaded Bidne's sliding tackle and drew a good save out of Sevlik who turned it round for a corner. On 60 minutes a loose ball just outside the Floro box was met on the run by Nesse. With the ball arrowing towards the far corner the keeper got his fingertips to it to keep it out. Lots of pressure followed from Floro but other than a header over from Aase the Nest defence repelled it. Late on Juvik could have twiced added to his tally. First beating the keeper from the edge of the box only to see his shot come back off the post, then put clean through by Bjorlo, the keeper got the better of him, getting a hand to his shot to save it. FT 2-0

M.O.M Nesse 7.5, Martinesen 7.0

A good all round performance from Nest-Sotra, probably the best of the season so far and certainly the most threatening in front of goal. Floro had their chances too but rarely troubled Sevlik in goal. Another great performance from Nesse, who is in a rich vien of form and looking the standout player in the team. He also scored a stunning goal.


Elsewhere there were wins for Kongvinger, Jerv, Notoden and Sandnes. Viking were held at home by a Levanger side who seem to be finding a bit of form. Asane drew yet again, this time with Strommen whilst Ham Kam and Ullensaker shared the points. Nest-Sotra move up into a congested mid-table position.


After 6 games:


Table:

Viking 16
Kongsvinger 13
Notodden 12
Strommen 12
Ullensaker/Kisa 9
Asane 8
Nest-Sotra 8
Sandnes 8
Jerv 8
Mjondalen 7
Aalesund 7
Sogndal 7
Ham-Kam 5
Levanger 5
Floro 2
Tromsdalen 1



Top Scorers

Ibrahim (Kongsvinger) 3
Nesse (Nest-Sotra) 2
Juvik (Nest-Sotra) 2
11 others also on 2


Assists

Five players on 2


Injuries

Sjolstad (Kongsvinger) 5 wks


Player Of The Season Race

Nesse 6.8
Cirak 6.4
Rodsand 6.4
Bidne 6.4



Next Game: Kongsvinger v Nest-Sotra


OBAS-Ligaen now caught up to the Eliteserien on 6 games.
 
miguelfcp said:
@geeeeee: No problem mate. On which version of PES are you making your edits?
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It’s on PES2008. For some reason i couldnt get on with the later games despite the improvements in ML.

So far i have edited just over 1800 players! Its taking time but i do an hour a day and ive got a good system going wheras i update each player on their birthday as well as going through the leagues. I’m so looking forward to finishing it and then it will be easier to keep up to date.

Being honest it is really quite sad :P
 
Nah of course it isn't :D
I still think it would be a good idea to build up an archive of OFs with different leagues around the world. I might try and create a file in autohotkey to auto input team names and player names as this can take a while.
 
Titch said:
Nah of course it isn't :D
I still think it would be a good idea to build up an archive of OFs with different leagues around the world. I might try and create a file in autohotkey to auto input team names and player names as this can take a while.
Click to expand...

I’m just sticking to the main leagues myself, although i have 16 Championship teams in. I might even leave one of the ‘other leagues’ blank because there are not enough team emblems to use.

I used to use autohotkey on my lap top years ago. It was good but my laptop started freezing at random moments which was so frustrating after i had edited a whole team without saving.

Now i use the ingame editor to do players one by one. See, as i said, sad :P
 
miguelfcp said:
Interesting system you've got there, I appreciate the explanation. It's a cool idea you brought to the thread, that of using FM stats for the creation of lesser-known players from obscure leagues. I do know that it's not a perfect system - the best for me is still the observation of players in real-life and then transferring that knowledge to the game - but it comes in handy when dealing with really obscure ones.
[/USER][/USER]
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Yeah. I like to use the FM stats, after all they too are the real life observation of the players for the vast majority of them, just not by ourselves. Like you say, it's not perfect and of course, they won't be 100% accurate but then nothing really will be as it's all subjective to whomever is rating that player, which in itself is the beauty of football. If we had a player here that we all rated for PES I don't suppose any of the stat sheets would match up. They'd probably have a similarity but they'd all differ a little and none of us would be more 'right' than the other I imagine. You only have to look at players your club sign that leave you scratching your head, thinking, what did they see in him? :DD[/USER][/USER]
 
Even SWOS didn't have the Norwegian third tier!
Playable teams with an FM size database would be incredible. Maybe one day that will be the norm.
Regarding stats, by the time you have decided if Joe Bloggs should have 78 shot accuracy and not 77, the world has moved on and they have probably changed anyway! Stats are really supposed to be a representation and shouldn't be taken too seriously. FM however should be as real teams are now relying on them to scout players.
 
Yeah, I remember reading in an article that FM have something like 1300 scouts in over 50 countries.

It's just a shame Sega own FM and Konami make PES.
 
@geeeeee: I can't be sure but out of all PS2 PES I believe it's PES2008 the one with more teams available, thanks to a great "other leagues" selection and the Team A,B,C, etc. league made purposely for editing. It's definitely a version worth sticking to.
To be honest even if an outsider might think it's sad - and I've come upon many people who tell me that "a game is to be played, not to spend our time editing instead of playing it!" - I have and always have had a blast editing PES. Extensive edits such as yours that take months of our time are the most satisfying to me. But it's not for everyone, as nowadays less and less people have the patience to take over such a demanding and complex project.

@Titch: Just as I did with the "Challenge Vault" a few pages ago, I really want to build a "league megapack" to display here with the help of anyone who wants to contribute with a league (not necessarily modifying the whole OF). Even if the OF shared by the user is not for the version of PES I'm playing, at least I can use his player stats/formations/etc. and apply it myself on my version of PES.

@mattmid: Whenever I have real-life knowledge about a player I dismiss FM's stats. As I said I really love that process of transferring that knowledge from the real to the game platform, someone should come up with a name for that hobby...
 
I guess I can have OF templates made. For instance, one OF would have all Scandinavian teams, one would have South American teams, one would have African teams etc etc...
 
@Titch If lazonet gets time to do that csv import for the editor it would be absolutely huge in helping get any league made in a fraction of the time once the ground work is done with the stats. I just hope he can do it after he's finished his studies.


@miguelfcp I totally get that Miguel. I must admit I've usually done the lesser/obscure leagues like the option file I posted with the European leagues like Swiss/Slovenia etc so I'd have no first hand knowledge of any of the players, but when I did one with the Premier in I did find myself changing certain stats on players that I thought differently about. A name for the hobby? Hmmm... A quest for perfection?

This is what is so good about the pes stats and the game engine in the retro games. Each one really does have an effect on the player. Drop the technique down low and players' touch and control will be poor, drop balance right down and they will get knocked over easily in tussles for the ball and so on and so on. I was doing one of the third tier teams earlier today and they have a player on loan from, I forget now, Valerenga I think it was, anyway his stats looked good compared to their regular players and I got excited thinking I can't wait to see how he does in the league, he should really stand out.
 
Titch said:
Just rename it Pro Evolution World of Soccer. A merge between PES and SWOS :)
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That would be a Sensible Evolution :D

Where on earth did they get the name Pro Evolution from anyway? Sounds like it's a non literal translation. Why wasn't it called Winning Eleven everywhere?
 
It's funny because my two favourite footy games have soccer in the name and not football.
 
I just had a thought of what might be a good idea. Make a completely fictional 72 teams (or 71 and play with the ML team) and play out a Master League. Fictional teams/players. You could use random numbers to set the initial stats of players and end up with some very interesting players and squads! It would also be interesting to see things pan out.
 
Kind of where I was heading :)
I have made a list of 140 teams based in England and sorted them geographically. So there are teams like London, Bath, Worcester etc major towns and cities in England. I have actually kept the stats the same for now but randomly assigned every player in the game to a club. Next step will be changing all the names of the players.
I've noticed in the ML one of the leagues is sometimes a mix of French, Dutch and other league A and B so I have set it up so the regions will work regardless of what the game decides.
 
That's a good idea keeping the originals and mixing them up. You can pick the teams in the ML if you get something. I like the idea of splitting them geographically too.
 
@Titch: Interesting idea. That alone would give us more ideas for new challenges, like the Scandinavian Challenge for example.

@mattmid: what I really like about playing in lesser-known leagues is that if you have a player with a certain stat that's above average it will absolutely show on pitch. Like having a 80+ dribble acc. player amongst a pool of guys who barely hit +70s in that particular attribute, or a 80+ head acc. defender. You just can't get this demonstration of player individuality in the best leagues because everyone's really good in most areas of the game.

About that idea of yours, I thought of a simple and easy way to get those fictional players: use the fake players from PES versions like the players of Alchemndolf, Fineesberg, PES United, WE United...if there's still space, use the newcomers like Shimizu, Kaiser...
Titch's idea is cool too. What about instead of having Athletic Bilbao, we had the Basque Country? Barcelona - Catalunya // Benfica or Sporting - Lisbon // Deportivo/Celta de Vigo - Galicia...instead of having what you have nowadays in real-life, which is businesses disguised as football clubs, you had regions fighting each other for world domination.
 
ML UNITED – The defaults


Season 2 – End of season update

Two updates ago I told you how we unexpectedly ended up fighting for promotion mid-season. After a decent winter transfer window which brought us Araujo and Guimaraes, we were ready to finish the job and leave the D2 for good, despite the fact that at the time at least seven teams were actively participating on that promotion fight.

Rightaway I introduced both Araujo and Guimaraes on the starting eleven. The Mexican replaced Van den Berg as a CMF to form a partnership with the mighty Stein in the middle. We became more solid defensively and definitely I saw improvements on the quality of our ball possession, as despite being a natural Libero, Araujo is a very good passer of the ball (the best in our squad alongside Minanda, Ettori and Vainqueur) and his high teamwork attribute (83) makes him an obvious choice for a midfielder role. The thing is, Van den Berg is a natural box-to-box, and Araujo will never be it. Van den Berg spends the whole 90 min. back and forth, covering a huge portion of the pitch with his availability. The Mexican won’t do that, offensively he’ll just sit back (55 aggression, no wonder he does so…)and dictate play as if he were a kind of Regista (think Pirlo) though I tell him to be a CMF…great thing about retro-PES is that you can’t make pigs fly.

Now for Guimaraes, he too began playing immediately as a RWB, relegating Espimas for the LWB role which previously belonged to Ximelez, who I meant to replace for a while now not just for his decay as an aging player but because his stamina his far far unsatisfying for what I want out of a wingback. Despite Guimaraes’ amazing statsheet – particularly for a 17-year-old – he took some time to adjust to our playing style. Such thing happens a lot in retro-PES (mainly the PS2 games) from what I can tell by experience. But eventually he definitely made an impact and I never looked back, Ximelez barely played ever again.

The first few matches after the transfer window were hard. We had a few draws that messed up the promotion race as the point difference between the challenging teams began to shrink…at a certain point, we almost had as much draws as wins (9W 7D, 1 L), which brought us to the last 5 matches of the season in a critical position, for we were about to face 3 of the strongest teams and competitors for the promotion spots in those 5 matches: Rennes, Dynamo Kiev and Internacional.

What happened in these last 5 matches made such an impact on me that the following seasons of this save will still be impacted by this moment, particularly when it comes to the decision on whether to bet on these players and keep them around or trade up for better ones. 5 matches…5 wins! We clinched the promotion with a 0-4 win against Dynamo Kiev (!), and got crowned D2 champions on the following match against AIK (0-1 win).

As for the D2 cup, we reached the semi-finals to face Rennes. After a 1-1 away draw, we won 5-4 in one of my most memorable ever ML matches – was losing 3-1 at halftime – to get us to the cup final against AEK. Then, the dream came crumbling down: two red cards in 15 minutes for ML United players and the inevitable loss (0-1). Got absolutely robbed there, both occasions were worthy of a yellow card at best.

1 – ML United – 49 pts – 14W / 7D / 1L – 41 goals scored // 20 conceded (1st in goals scored, best defense)
2 – AEK – 44 pts

D2 MVP award: D’Alessandro (Internacional) – he’s indeed too good for this league, a class act. I still believe either Evans or Gutierrez were more suited for their goals + assists contribution…
Goals: Shatskikh, from Dynamo Kiev (15) C. EVANS (14), GUTIERREZ (13)
Assists: VAINQUEUR (5)

My main objective for this season was to keep developing our players and improve on our record, maybe finishing the season with a winning one (more wins than losses, more wins than draws). Well, we did all that, achieved promotion and won a title…not bad! Check out our defense though, from one of the worst of the league last year to the best…L. Cooper is to blame: the 18-year-old had a wonderful debut season for us and his teammates already call him Canavarro. Coopernavarro? Anyways, the numbers don’t lie. Without Cooper, 3rd worst defense in the league, with Cooper, the best one.
Our prolific attack is best explained by watching the deadly partnership of Gutierrez and Evans. It has been a while since I got this physically tired just watching a striker duo out there, they’re diabolic. It's a joy controlling them.

here's Stein lifting the trophy:
7nuuU8Pg.jpg

Next up, our summer transfer window. How will ML United use the market to adapt to the brutal reality of D1?
 
@miguelfcp Great write up :) Despite the warning I clicked on the spoiler :LOL: Cooper sounds like he's going to be quite a player then! I'm sure Araujo in front of the defence helped a bit as well. Is Minanda still in contract for a swansong in Div 1? D'Alesseandro was indeed a class act. Shame you couldn't get the double, wrong ref at the wrong time it would seem!
 
BTW, I may mentioned earlier but look at PES2 sample flags, its quite interesting
Also I'm thinking of making a custom squad for ML in PES6 or PES5 with average stats :P
 
Orhainmalz said:
BTW, I may mentioned earlier but look at PES2 sample flags, its quite interesting
Also I'm thinking of making a custom squad for ML in PES6 or PES5 with average stats :P
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I am playing PES 3 ML all the time now and have kept most of the default squad, as @miguelfcp is doing in PES 9. I had some Div 2 Cup heartbreak like him as well, eventually managed to win it after four seasons and that was a penalty shoot out in the final. Toughest trophy to win I think. :shiver:

@Orhainmalz , do you find the growth players in PES 3 a bit too easy to train up to max stats like a Zidane or a Figo in a few games ? I may stick to just the default guys and moderately good signings from free agents and clubs. A more real and testing challenge that way. And I can't afford any player on more than a 400 points salary in any case. I am skint points wise. :SHOCK:
 
My brother managed to get one of the players nearly 99 for everything. He was an irritating little git :D
 
@mattmid: That spoiler is absolute click-bait! Cooper is a catch, clearly performing well over what I expected out of a 18-year old. His stats are still no more than just decent - or mediocre compared to the majority of the strikers he faced in D2. As for Minanda, a spoiler from my next update: his contract expired this year, but he wants to play another season! 1-year contract renewal then for a soon-to-be 39 year old, king Minanda will be back next year.

@Orhainmalz: Sample flags? What's that?
Also, what do you mean by custom squad: fake, created players or just average players picked out of other teams (a kind of Deplorables Challenge)?

@WhoAteMeDinner: Besides the signing of Olembe which you mentioned in a previous post, the rest of the squad is still defaults or have you managed to acquire more players?

@Matt10: I'll be watching it, welcome to our retro-PES corner!
 
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