The Retro-PES Corner

I can't believe how people can play with that camera angle. Don't get me wrong, it looks awesome and all but it doesn't work for me sadly ... can't play like that not even to save my life lol

Yep @Hoshii , me neither, bit too far back in the corner of the stadium view for me, hard to judge tackling and shooting angles. Only can play dead centre position wide camera angle or same dead centre Birds Eye camera that gives you a "Kick Off" or "Sensible Soccer" style overhead view from an eagles' perspective.

Hard on the old eyes though....:SHOCK::SHOCK::SHOCK:
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: You're absolutely right. Sousa has now played as a centre-back, wingback (both sides), DMF, CMF, AMF and striker. All that's left for him to experience is playing as a goalkeeper :D
For the guys who don't know him, he's a natural CMF but he develops his stats very well, becoming an all-around player...but perhaps most important of all, as we've discussed here before, is his Teamwork stat (has 96 in my save now). A guy with such high football IQ and his solid, balanced statsheet can play everywhere really.

He's not yet on my "default" starting-11 because of my loyalty to Van den Berg - despite his much weaker statsheet, the man is a beast; but still Sousa is getting a lot of playing time across all positions, and is often the first to be subbed in during matches, turning him into a kind of "12th player".

I can imagine the dynamics of your 4-3-3 with Sousa up front, having all the freedom to roam about and create scoring chances for both wingers.

When I got him as a 18-year-old newcomer, I predicted he'd turn into a kind of "regista", a Pirlo-type of player, dictating the play from deep...but now he can really adapt to whatever role.

@miguelfcp , the natural CMF position is the key for me that you mentioned. In PES edtions of the past, player position designation gave you a big guide to how talented and multiple positions capable they could be. CMFs can generally play in any midfield role, sort of like a Clarence Seedorf.
 
@MafiaMurderBag: I'm a bit jealous right now, I did try to set up Football Kingdom on the PCSX2 a while back but it lagged so much...my computer is admittedly a bit crap but not that crappy though. :D

Forgive me father, for I've sinned: I've been playing PS2 FIFA :D
It's unbelievable that in 2019, if I want to play with as much portuguese stadiums as possible, I have to fire up a game from 2004 (or a patched PES6)...anyway, I'm now on FIFA07 and playing with Boavista because their stadium is in the game - must've been one of the last football games ever to have Estádio do Bessa.
Gameplay-wise, PES was really millions of miles ahead of FIFA back then, kids nowadays wouldn't believe it. Even on World Class you'll get an arcade-ish experience, which was exactly what I was looking for anyway as a way to decompress after the exhausting PES08 ML season :SMUG:. Still, it's very much worth if for the match commentary, matchday atmosphere and the menu music alone. Can't believe how even nowadays PES seems to underestimate the importance of providing a great sound experience to go along the gameplay...I can definitely handle PS2 FIFA's mediocre gameplay with its awesome sound, but if I'd merge PS2 PES' sound with FIFA PS2 gameplay I'd have destroyed the tele by now.
 
@MafiaMurderBag: I'm a bit jealous right now, I did try to set up Football Kingdom on the PCSX2 a while back but it lagged so much...my computer is admittedly a bit crap but not that crappy though. :D

Forgive me father, for I've sinned: I've been playing PS2 FIFA :D
It's unbelievable that in 2019, if I want to play with as much portuguese stadiums as possible, I have to fire up a game from 2004 (or a patched PES6)...anyway, I'm now on FIFA07 and playing with Boavista because their stadium is in the game - must've been one of the last football games ever to have Estádio do Bessa.
Gameplay-wise, PES was really millions of miles ahead of FIFA back then, kids nowadays wouldn't believe it. Even on World Class you'll get an arcade-ish experience, which was exactly what I was looking for anyway as a way to decompress after the exhausting PES08 ML season :SMUG:. Still, it's very much worth if for the match commentary, matchday atmosphere and the menu music alone. Can't believe how even nowadays PES seems to underestimate the importance of providing a great sound experience to go along the gameplay...I can definitely handle PS2 FIFA's mediocre gameplay with its awesome sound, but if I'd merge PS2 PES' sound with FIFA PS2 gameplay I'd have destroyed the tele by now.
Football Kingdom still isn't the most compatible game on PCSX2. Increasing the resolution just causes slow downs so i play it at native resolution with scanlines to give it that authentic PS2 feel.

As far as FIFA, I do actually have to agree that the presentation on PS2 was top notch, great nostalgic memories of the soundtrack and even beginning the trend of introducing us to artists and bands we would otherwise be unfamiliar with. I can imagine being an underground act and getting a song licensed in this game would be a massive coup in exposure pre social media.

The PS2 FIFA's also suffered from god awful player models and incredibly inaccurate kits despite being licensed, they literally had one of the worst graphic designers for years until this gen.

I do have bittersweet memories of FIFA 06 so have a bit of attachment to it from a childhood standpoint, my first FIFA i actually brought and was a decent holdover after a year of PES 4. EA used to release FIFA a couple of weeks before PES so it had the sales edge over it's competitor but myself like many others, traded it in as soon as the messiah known as PES 5 hit the shelves :D.

FIFA 06 was also when they introduced those bungy goal nets too :LMAO:

Fuck it, might have to download FIFA 06 tonight and reminisce and then Alt+F4 out after 10 minutes because it's not as good as i remembered and i should've know better but that's nostalgia, and part the reason why we're here.
 
@MafiaMurderBag: Hmm...I'll have to get PCSX2 again and follow your advice to see whether it works any better...

Soon enough PES copied that too from PES08 onwards :D, introducing many alternative bands and artists. I found many because of FIFA early on, then PES later on too.

Spoiler alert: Nostalgia bomb incoming


FIFA PS2 had amazing soundtracks. PES08-10 were great too, as far as I remember.

Yeah, the player models...all of the players look like wannabe-Akinfenwas :LOL: I'd like to believe all the 22 players get together before the match, have a few burgers and beers, then drive to the stadium and play. F*ck the modern-day primadonnas of football with their diets and nutrition to "maximize performance" or whatever: be like FIFA PS2 players and work hard, play hard and eat more.

I'm playing FIFA07 mostly because it has Estádio do Bessa and a licensed portuguese league, combined with portuguese commentary as well. That and the audio experience as a whole has been making it enjoyable for the little time I've (re)played the game.
 
I'd like to believe all the 22 players get together before the match, have a few burgers and beers, then drive to the stadium and play. F*ck the modern-day primadonnas of football with their diets and nutrition to "maximize performance" or whatever: be like FIFA PS2 players and work hard, play hard and eat more.

This is basically English football in the 1980's :LOL: Only they'd come from the bookies. Have a stroll out on the pitch for 15 minutes, kick a few balls about, go back in, have a smoke and come out for kick off. Then knock the ball back from the kick off and send it upfield, directly out for a throw to win the "Team to win first throw-in" bet someone had placed for them. And I'm not making that bit up! Not to mention playing on either a ploughed field or one covered in sand and the best still managed to play some great football on it.
 
Yep @Hoshii , me neither, bit too far back in the corner of the stadium view for me, hard to judge tackling and shooting angles. Only can play dead centre position wide camera angle or same dead centre Birds Eye camera that gives you a "Kick Off" or "Sensible Soccer" style overhead view from an eagles' perspective.

Hard on the old eyes though....:SHOCK::SHOCK::SHOCK:
Would love an end to end SWOS style camera. Never come across one for PES.
 
If we talk FIFA 06 it has to be the xbox og version... forget the gamecube one :PUKE: ...stupid controlls and wack overall. From my knowledge the PS2 version only has 4:3 aspect ratio (same as PC). But the X version is in proper widescreen and it supports 720p (...but i'm not sure this is a good thing since some player models can actually scare you and leave some permanent scars on your soul).

But i had great fun with that game. One of these games you didn't feel cheated by AI like by Konami-san.

I remember FIFA 07 (on XboxOG) had a terrible framerate and it couldn't reach the greatness of 06... Important fact, aiming from my believe: FIFA 06 was the last game, until FIFA 12, who was exactly same on PC - to it's counter part on consoles (gameplay/graphic wise)... The 360/PES3 erea games also were diffrent... it's like they made 3 diffrent games, but all had the same name...... :APPLAUD:
 
Hey, these korean/italian/german/... guys did some jaw-droping work for the PC games of FIFA, i'm tellin you. From pits, kits, lightning, hell even the framerates have been improved. Starting from 07,08,09 and 10 (although i would ignore FIFA 10 on PC...) They almost made new games out of them! I was really, really impressed.
 
If we talk FIFA 06 it has to be the xbox og version... forget the gamecube one :PUKE: ...stupid controlls and wack overall. From my knowledge the PS2 version only has 4:3 aspect ratio (same as PC). But the X version is in proper widescreen and it supports 720p (...but i'm not sure this is a good thing since some player models can actually scare you and leave some permanent scars on your soul).

But i had great fun with that game. One of these games you didn't feel cheated by AI like by Konami-san.

I remember FIFA 07 (on XboxOG) had a terrible framerate and it couldn't reach the greatness of 06... Important fact, aiming from my believe: FIFA 06 was the last game, until FIFA 12, who was exactly same on PC - to it's counter part on consoles (gameplay/graphic wise)... The 360/PES3 erea games also were diffrent... it's like they made 3 diffrent games, but all had the same name...... :APPLAUD:

@Hoshii mate, that is because they did really make three PES games each year: Winning Eleven (Japan version), Winning Eleven (International Edition) and PES (European version) and they were all a bit different.

Bring back the old days now.......:COAT::COAT::COAT:
 
Here is a question for you all: if Konami head developer Seabass always gave a big boost to the stats of Japanese and Inter Milan players in all early PES games he was in charge of. Then how amazing a player should Yuto Nagatomo be ?

:...:...:...
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: I'm to blame for that, but in order to cleanse my sinful spirit I've already read a few more chapters of the Retro-PES Bible (some call it the PES5 Guide).

I remember a few years ago Nagatomo had almost 99 stamina, a beast of a SB.

@miguelfcp, miggy mate. The Retro-PES Bible or "the good book" as I call it will always lead you back to the true path.
 
@MafiaMurderBag: Portugal match was an instant classic...so close to concede a goal, get the ball back and score the 2-0 to clinch a spot on the next round.
Well, that was close. Brazil next? Oh crap.
China to win the World Cup?
 
@MafiaMurderBag: Portugal match was an instant classic...so close to concede a goal, get the ball back and score the 2-0 to clinch a spot on the next round.
Well, that was close. Brazil next? Oh crap.
China to win the World Cup?

Thanks, it wasn't the treat for the neutrals that their game against South Korea in their second game was but was so satisfying scoring that counter. These classic games have such a skill gap that scoring impressive goals is rare, that when you do you punch the air and feel a sense of accomplishment. Nowadays you can score counters with no effort or calculation in your players timing as well as defenders being about as useful as glass hammers that they just come off as toxic.

China & Japan are the only Asian representatives and Ecuador are the only team to have a 100% perfect winning record without conceding a single goal. Love how these tournaments start telling their own stories.

How you getting on with FIFA on PCSX2? Tried 06 last night but wouldn't get past the loading screen so i gotta figure that out but tried 07 and damn, i see what you mean about the music and presentation, so so good. And then the game starts and it's all down hill from there unfortunately. I felt like it aged worse than i remembered.

I'm gonna try FIFA 2004 later though only because that was my first FIFA and i feel like getting nostalgic and i wanna chuckle at the famed steel cage nets.
 
@MafiaMurderBag: I forgot about Ecuador, yes, they've been fantastic so far.

France 2-0 Spain
Brazil 1-2 Portugal (come on, I want to believe :D)
Germany 1-0 Sweden
Ecuador 3-1 Belgium
Japan 0-2 Italy
England 3-2 Cameroon
United States 1-1 China (China wins on PK)
Slovenia 1-2 Senegal

My bet is placed!

--
I'm actually playing on the PS2 itself. Well, after a few matches, you can definitely see the shortcomings piling on the already weak gameplay experience...goalkeepers tend to stick to the goal instead of rushing on 1vs1s with the strikers; using a 4-3-3 formation is an exploit because the CPU sidebacks are horrible when it comes to transitioning defense, leaving huge gaps there on counter-attacks - it's a banquet for my wingers, even on World Class. These are definitely gamebreaking at this point, which is a shame because I'm loving not only the music but the commentary, both are too good for this game really.

I have a copy of FIFA04 as well but it freezes on the loading screen pre-match, sadly, as well as my FIFA06 also. I've sampled a bit of UEFA Euro 2004 which also leaves me very nostalgic, for obvious reasons - the competition was played in Portugal, and that game is the one that has by far the most portuguese stadiums. I'm ditching FIFA07 for it and try out an Euro cup run with a lesser side...as usual, the commentary and music are brilliant, even if the the gameplay itself is even more arcadey than regular PS2 FIFA.
 
I'm slowly going forward in my ML campaign in Pes 2011. Did three nice signings in january (Lukaku, Jarolim and Toristao, a supposedly made up portuguese left sideback) plus Zidan from youth team (the superb egyptian striker of course, not the french random dude).

I'm still fourth and I'm counting in doing CL next season, even if I've just lost two bizarre games one after another.
I surprisingly turned around the Coppa Italia quarter finals with a truly beautiful 0-3 in Fiorentina's home and I draw 2-2 in my own stadium against Juventus, in the semifinal.. another hard second round awaits me.

Truly loving this game! Might do a proper review when I'll feel like it.
 
@miguelfcp Some fun predictions right there. Portugal were interesting to play as because i was just getting into football in 2004 so i remember their golden generation with Deco, Ronaldo, Maniche etc.. And this Portugal squad from 2002 seems to be full of ageing players. What was the consensus about this squad at this time, that they were past it and weren't realistic contenders or something? I noticed a lot of the squads in this tournament had players with an average age of 30 so maybe the culture & mindset changed in the mid to late 2000's and the emphasis was on youth in order to be successful internationally, which Spain, Germany and more recently, France have made strong cases for.

As for FIFA & EURO 2004, even though in hindsight they aren't great games at all, i still have fond nostalgic memories of those games. I was a kid so what did i know and the graphics and textures were actually quite nice for the time and actually visually they held up far better then FIFA 06 on wards on the PS2, so what ever the hell happened to their art departments there. The soundtracks and presentation were out of this world and introduced me to Nelly Furtado's beautiful "Forca" which i didn't find out until years later was actually Portugal's official Anthem for Euro 2004.

I remember being ever so confused and a little bit angry that they would go through the effort of creating the Portuguese and later German stadiums for the Tournament games and never importing them into the main series. Just seemed like such a waste.

@Madmac79 Great to hear you're loving PES 2011, such and underrated pioneer i the '11-'13 era of PES. It's not so much of a foundation as it is a great game in it's own right, very different to '12 &'13 which are actually similar to and more like revisions of each other. I played a bit of it last year and will return to it soon but there's nothing quite like going through these old games, browsing through the squads in Edit mode and feeling gobsmacked at how these young players who were strapped with the "Next big thing" rockets faded into trivial obscurity within a few years.
 
@MafiaMurderBag Agree 100%. What I find so captivating about 2011 is that it's probably the Pes that does feel less like the others.. and yet still retains the general feel of the saga (don't know if I'm making any sense :LOL:).

There is so much stuff completely unique to this chapter, like the standard cameras with that default broadcast-like moving moving angle, the magnificent colours and the illumination, a lot of animations, the penalty system, the passing system, the ball physics so strange and sometimes weird yet so damn free and random.. sometimes it feels like the nearest thing to a "third", modern football game.

I have vague memories of the heavy hand of another program guy just for this chapter, but I can't find proofs as of now.
 
@MafiaMurderBag: Our performance in the WC2002 (didn't qualify for the round of 16) was viewed as one of the most disappointing moments in Portugal's NT history. That squad was known as the "Geração de Ouro" - the Golden Generation - because of players like Vítor Baía, Fernando Couto, Rui Costa, Figo, Sérgio Conceição, and others...they were all in the peak of their careers, and had had very good performances in the Euro 96 and the Euro 2000. So we thought this would be a great chance to make an impact on international football (our last great performance in the WC had been in...1966!), but we blew it completely.

After the WC2002, and out of nowhere, a guy who was coaching União de Leiria called Mourinho comes to Porto, wins both the UEFA Cup and the CL with a bunch of portuguese guys he had brought to Porto from the likes of União de Leiria, Vitória de Setúbal, Benfica's reserves...the NT naturally took advantage of those guys like Ricardo Carvalho, Paulo Ferreira, Deco, Maniche and introduced them to the Geração de Ouro team, combined with a young Ronaldo; and without any doubt, the 2004 roster ended up having even more talent to work with than the 2002 one.

You're absolutely right in my opinion, the culture changed a lot. I remember NT managers being a bit cautious when choosing young players to join the squad, as they felt those players needed more experience before being able to play for their country, whereas nowadays every NT usually brings in a lot of youngsters.

About UEFA Euro 2004, I played just one match last night but I noticed rightaway the difference in competitiveness between that and the FIFA07 CPU. Naturally there are fewer animations, the gameplay is more limited, but globally, the thing seems to work well.
With the modern perspective we have on these retro games, it's fair to say that when it comes to the graphics, PS2-PES aged much better than PS2-FIFA. I too noticed the depletion of PS2 FIFA's looks over time, it seems it peaked quite early and from then on, it decayed.
 
....

Why in the right mind am i still playing these things? Can somebody tell me?


And of course the cross went to a header and goal for opponent... I don't have a problem with losing, but this is nasty. This is too much. I think i'm gona pull out like geeee did and leave Konami alone.

A lot of shame in that 'game' :SHAKE:
 
....

Why in the right mind am i still playing these things? Can somebody tell me?


And of course the cross went to a header and goal for opponent... I don't have a problem with losing, but this is nasty. This is too much. I think i'm gona pull out like geeee did and leave Konami alone.

A lot of shame in that 'game' :SHAKE:
I literally, literally experienced this in PES 2019 just last week (I was talking about it happening in the PES 2019 discussion thread).

It's always been there and has never gone away - this AI "cheating" is a cornerstone of PES development, in order to force things to go the AI's way and make the game more challenging.

It'll be weird if they ever develop a game that can beat you without having to resort to this stuff. I don't know if it'll ever happen (but then, FIFA doesn't have this stuff, and is way too easy)...
 
Yes, of course, there's always someone online closing the Retro-PES tavern. Have a drink on the house.

@Hoshii: You just don't know the backstory.

Clearly the Brazilian defender there had far too many picanhas the night before, didn't evacuate until the match was played, and boom, he failed you when you most needed him to perform. I can feel his pain over here just by the way he recoils, that sudden aching pain on the stomach that makes you stop whatever you're doing, be it watching your favourite TV show or chasing down Saudi Arabia's (?) left winger on the 1998 World Cup.

I just hope you subbed him off right after that play, so that he could run to the bathroom and do the job.

...But yeah, as @Chris Davies says, on PES19 it's just the AI cheating.
 
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