The Drama Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

retronym

Banned
4 August 2011
gergerger said:
There's still a problem with the way teams organize their defensive lines. In every single video I've seen you can almost feel the desperation from the defending team. In fact, most of the time the defending team is defending backwards, towards their own goal, chasing the attackers.

It's not that defensive transitions are slow. In fact, I think they aren't.
This is cause by other problems, for instance:

+ defensive tactics don't cover the full width of the pitch. Attackers do. So defenders have to catch up in backwards diagonals, which is simply the incorrect way to do it IRL.
+ defensive awareness is close to non existent, because players seek to assume their defensive positions first. Defensive positions are something that's INERT, drawings on a chalkboard.
+ Actual defending seems to start only when the attacking team's pace is interrupted because of a rebound or something.
+ Teams tactics are still TOO LONG, leading to free transit (chasing from behind at best) in midfield. Watch a team's defensive lines on the radar when they are on the ball past midfield: they leave a 4 meters gap between their position and the passive opponent's striker. Once the other team gets possesion and searches for their striker, (A)defenders assume position first, (B) the defensive midfielder must chase the striker from behind whitin a now 6-7 meters clear gap, and (C) don't forget the striker's buddies.

Konami gives the attacking teams positional advantage, which coupled with high precision of passes, is not the smartest way to create freedom of choices. This creates an extremely fast paced game, which has nothing to do with the youtube effect. It's not even entirely a problem of passing precision and speed (which plays a big part, specially precision). The problem is that every pass has a "let's progess on the field" intention which has a negative impact on the build up, coupled with the problems described above.
Click to expand...

sorry mate criticism isn't allowed here, unless you have something nice to say about pes 2012 don't even bother opening your mouth
 
Last edited:
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
This is Evo-Web. World famous for negativity and criticism. WENB we are not.

Personally speaking, what I don't like is people signing up and straight off the bat setting out to discredit long-standing, respected members, who've given up their time to play-test the game for the community.

I'd say outlandish bell-endery is not welcome here.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, ive not been here so long, but that guy Retronym has been nothing but negative since joining, theres a picture in the ML thread fitting for this.. cant get it on my phone though!
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
This is Evo-Web. World famous for negativity and criticism. WENB we are not.

Personally speaking, what I don't like is people signing up and straight off the bat setting out to discredit long-standing, respected members, who've given up their time to play-test the game for the community.

I'd say outlandish bell-endery is not welcome here.
Click to expand...

tbh, it's expected. Happens every year doesn't it? That anonymous guy a couple years back for example.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
This is Evo-Web. World famous for negativity and criticism. WENB we are not.

Personally speaking, what I don't like is people signing up and straight off the bat setting out to discredit long-standing, respected members, who've given up their time to play-test the game for the community.

I'd say outlandish bell-endery is not welcome here.
Click to expand...

If people are so sensitive to criticism it's not my problem, sorry. Being a playtester is representing the community, don't expect the community to give you unwavering respect just because you got the privilege of playing the game early. I do challenge people's opinions especially when there has been continual evidence year after year of previews misrepresenting both games for reasons that defy explanation. I think the guys on here were honest in their opinions but I reserve the right to express reservations about the way people generally go about this task of playtesting the game (and it applies to people in all communities and for both games), it was not a specific, personal attack and if you were on the EA forums last year you would have seen me saying the same thing to the FSB folks.

As for this place being supposedly open to criticism, I certainly see it in the FIFA section, you have people in here though that would rather divert discussions to asinine topics about someone's girlfriend than have a mature debate about the game. Someone even told another person that they shouldn't bother speaking unless it was to say something nice about the game, I mean what the hell lol. Go to any gaming site worth its salt and you will see most discussions do revolve around the negative or contentious aspects of a forthcoming release, there is no point or no challenge in re-iterating and re-hashing the positives ad nauseum like groveling religious sycophants.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Retronym started off bad with his comments about the 'game testers' or what ever you want to call them? Rom, Rod and Lami are great so i won't have a bad word said against them, like you lot :))

He does need to lighten up a bit.....but he has made some good points imo both in here and in the Fifa thread since then and has calmed down a bit.

As long as his posts are a lot less 'attacky, then I think he is an intelligent poster that gives a different point of view and I think that is a good thing.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Adam just posted this on wenb. and its very true
"And you wanna know why I'm pissed off?

Really?

Because I know this shit will get fed back to Konami. They'll tone the Active AI down. And it won't be as good as when me and Suff played it.

Then people will be like 'WENB lied, the game isn't as good as they said' BS.

AND, to really **** me off,

Keepers.

HEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

The keepers need work. We've been saying this since day one. And even now, they need work. But no, it will get missed because of all these internet heroes.

Thanks a fucking lot."

Guys yes its a issue but wouldnt you rather the important stuff like keepers be looked at. And i will be so pissed if the ai gets toned down because that is one of the most amazing ai ive seen in a football game. please guys leave it alone. konami actually look at the forums these days and care what the community say.
 
Last edited:
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Complain about keepers and animations all you want but leave the AI fucking alone
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

mancan said:
Adam just posted this on wenb. and its very true
"And you wanna know why I'm pissed off?

Really?

Because I know this shit will get fed back to Konami. They'll tone the Active AI down. And it won't be as good as when me and Suff played it.

Then people will be like 'WENB lied, the game isn't as good as they said' BS.

AND, to really **** me off,

Keepers.

HEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

The keepers need work. We've been saying this since day one. And even now, they need work. But no, it will get missed because of all these internet heroes.

Thanks a fucking lot."

Guys yes its a issue but wouldnt you rather the important stuff like keepers be looked at. And i will be so pissed if the ai gets toned down because that is one of the most amazing ai ive seen in a football game. please guys leave it alone
Click to expand...

Can Konami only concentrate on one thing at a time?

If they have been saying it from day one, then konami should have been looking at the keepers already? if they are that great? the running bug has only come up in the last couple of days.

Adam needs to sort out how he talks to people. If people spoke to him like that he would ban them, it just makes him sound like a dick.

It also sounds like Adam is sorting out his 'get out of jail' card just incase the game doesn't come out as good? just a thought :))

Anyway the game looks like it is going to be great anyway, so that is good news :DD
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

mancan said:
Adam just posted this on wenb. and its very true
"And you wanna know why I'm pissed off?

Really?

Because I know this shit will get fed back to Konami. They'll tone the Active AI down. And it won't be as good as when me and Suff played it.

Then people will be like 'WENB lied, the game isn't as good as they said' BS.

AND, to really **** me off,

Keepers.

HEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

The keepers need work. We've been saying this since day one. And even now, they need work. But no, it will get missed because of all these internet heroes.

Thanks a fucking lot."

Guys yes its a issue but wouldnt you rather the important stuff like keepers be looked at. And i will be so pissed if the ai gets toned down because that is one of the most amazing ai ive seen in a football game. please guys leave it alone
Click to expand...

This is the worst argument I've ever heard lol, how is the game going to be realistic if you can't even pass it around in defence? Back in the glory days I used to frustrate my friends by playing ridiculously slow tempo build ups, passing around the back four for ages before advancing up the pitch, the GC videos made the game look like a pinball end-to-end mess, goalkeepers should be the last of your worries if that is the way the game is going to be.

Agreed. There's constructive criticism which everyone welcomes and then there's a new member throwing his weight about and being quite antagonistic in his posting style. That's not on, but I agree he does make valid points.
Click to expand...

Sure I agree, but it wasn't meant to be antagonistic, that's just the posting style I'm used to from the sites I generally frequent. where anything less than a death threat is considered good manners. I wasn't going to mention the playtesters again until you brought it up. :SMUG:
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

BobbyBox said:
Can Konami only concentrate on one thing at a time?

If they have been saying it from day one, then konami should have been looking at the keepers already? if they are that great? the running bug has only come up in the last couple of days.

Adam needs to sort out how he talks to people. If people spoke to him like that he would ban them, it just makes him sound like a dick.

It also sounds like Adam is sorting out his 'get out of jail' card just incase the game doesn't come out as good? just a thought :))

Anyway the game looks like it is going to be great anyway, so that is good news :DD
Click to expand...
What are you talking about stop being so disrespectful. Adam and his team have been probably the most influential team in regards to getting pes where it now is. yet when ever he says anything people just make fun of him and dont take him seriously. Obviously konami are looking at keepers and are still trying to improve them. But obviously its hard.
Also if everyone has said its not a problem then why are people still going on about it. wouldnt you be frustrated?
adam is trying to help us not con us. He is a fan just like us.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

mancan said:
What are you talking about stop being so disrespectful. Adam and his team have been probably the most influential team in regards to getting pes where it now is. yet when ever he says anything people just make fun of him and dont take him seriously. Obviously konami are looking at keepers and are still trying to improve them. But obviously its hard.
Also if everyone has said its not a problem then why are people still going on about it. wouldnt you be frustrated?
adam is trying to help us not con us. He is a fan just like us.
Click to expand...

you are just making an argument from authority, maybe they have been influential but if someone has a bullshit opinion they should be called out on it
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

i think that adam and all of as need to wait for the demo, and if you have any problem with the game,so go and play fifa12 the "real simulation" :)
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

right,and if the game is bad don't buy it or download :) the game(i am not Encouraging any one to download the game,buy it support konami please)
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

mancan said:
What are you talking about stop being so disrespectful. Adam and his team have been probably the most influential team in regards to getting pes where it now is. yet when ever he says anything people just make fun of him and dont take him seriously. Obviously konami are looking at keepers and are still trying to improve them. But obviously its hard.
Also if everyone has said its not a problem then why are people still going on about it. wouldnt you be frustrated?
adam is trying to help us not con us. He is a fan just like us.
Click to expand...

I'm not being half as disrespectful as he is to everybody. I said he sounds like a dick, which in those posts he does. I am not saying he is a dick.

You can't run a site like that and swear etc and then ban people for having different views etc (which I have heard hapening). Its hypocritical and that might be why people are not taking him seriously? as people don't respect him? treat people how you want to be treated yourself, that is always what i have been told and it works, he should try it.

I still don't think he understands the run bug problem with the computer AI? if he does, even if they game is still good with it, it is still not a good thing in there and should be sorted out. Saying that what people are seeing with their own eyes is wrong? it gets peoples backs up and when you talk to people like he has, that gets peoples backs up aswell.

I respect Rom, Rod and Lami much more and they have said the run bug was not in the code they played before Gamescon and that the Improved AI was there and it was brilliant. We get the new code and the run bug is there? which makes me highly doubt it is part of the new AI.

So you can trust Adam and think he can swear at everyone, but it isn't right, if he acts like that then people are going to think he is a dick...sorry.

Anyway we are going off again on the run bug and I don't want to do that again, so lets leave it.

Everyone is saying the game is brilliant anyway, so lets all rejoice and enjoy the game.
 
Last edited:
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Now read what he says now. the guy is passionate even more than us and thats why he is so upset. im surprised he didnt go crazy before.
"Sorry for the offensive language guys, but I'm so upset about everything.

PES is a huge part of my life, you guys know I'm one of the biggest fans out there. But at the same time, we've been quick to point out flaws. I really wish Gamescom didn't happen, and Konami just released a demo. As you would all have been focused on the same things as me. I'm not trying to hide a problem, just focus on the one that is real.

I think if PES 2012 comes out in a state that I'm not pleased with, then I'm definitely leaving this site business. I'm not having people who I try and help and represent ruin a game I'm working hard with the fans to create with Konami. So disheartening."

just give the guy a break.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

If he was a dick why would he work so hard to get more pes sites involved why konami. He is the one who gave the evo-web guys play test.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

mancan said:
Now read what he says now. the guy is passionate even more than us and thats why he is so upset. im surprised he didnt go crazy before.
"Sorry for the offensive language guys, but I'm so upset about everything.

PES is a huge part of my life, you guys know I'm one of the biggest fans out there. But at the same time, we've been quick to point out flaws. I really wish Gamescom didn't happen, and Konami just released a demo. As you would all have been focused on the same things as me. I'm not trying to hide a problem, just focus on the one that is real.

I think if PES 2012 comes out in a state that I'm not pleased with, then I'm definitely leaving this site business. I'm not having people who I try and help and represent ruin a game I'm working hard with the fans to create with Konami. So disheartening."

just give the guy a break.
Click to expand...

That is better, if he didn't do all the swearing etc and posted like this then there wouldn't be a problem. It shows character to apologise.

But I don't like the fact that he is saying people are trying to ruin the game, when all they are doing is trying to report a bug they see is there and just don't take his word for.

This is what I was saying with my initial post a couple of days ago, people get too touchy when people make opposite remarks about the game, they take it personally which is just silly.

All the people there want to see a great game and that is why they are posting, why the hell would someone go into a thread and post crap just to put the game down and make it shit? it doesn't make sense and the sooner die hards like Adam realise this, the sooner these sort of arguments and pages and pages of moaning will stop.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

BobbyBox said:
That is better, if he didn't do all the swearing etc and posted like this then there wouldn't be a problem. It shows character to apologise.

But I don't like the fact that he is saying people are trying to ruin the game, when all they are doing is trying to report a bug they see is there and just don't take his word for.

This is what I was saying with my initial post a couple of days ago, people get too touchy when people make opposite remarks about the game, they take it personally which is just silly.

All the people there want to see a great game and that is why they are posting, why the hell would someone go into a thread and post crap just to put the game down and make it shit? it doesn't make sense and the sooner die hards like Adam realise this, the sooner these sort of arguments and pages and pages of moaning will stop.
Click to expand...
No thats not the point he is angry because many times by various people. they have said its not a problem and that it isnt even in the review or preview code. yet people go on and on for days and days talking about the same thing. on and on and on and on. you'd think it was something that completely broke the game. But its not its something visual. many videos have shown that you can still play very good passing football even with it. that just goes to show how awesome the game is. He has been sent message after message and twitter message after twitter message about one issue in which he has replied to a million times. No one says dont talk about issues but if your answered then leave it and judge for yourself when you play it. dont go on and on.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

I think his worry is real tbh, we've had enoguh examples of it in the last couple of years, Konami sometimes does the wrong things with feedback they get from people. The fact that the great majority of people agree that last year, the demo was better than the final code, speaks for itself.

I frankly worry too that all this mess (because it is a real freaking mess right now) gets "lost in translation" when/if it ships to Japan, and we end up with a toned down and not so "active" AI in the final game, and yet again we feel demos were better then retail code.

We all (or the majority because there are a couple of "concern trolls" here and @ WENB too) want the best from the game, but we've got to be absolutely sure about what we're reporting on, if it's indeed how we think it is, 'cause it may end up not being the best for the game after all.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

_anderson said:
I think his worry is real tbh, we've had enoguh examples of it in the last couple of years, Konami sometimes does the wrong things with feedback they get from people. The fact that the great majority of people agree that last year, the demo was better than the final code, speaks for itself.

I frankly worry too that all this mess (because it is a real freaking mess right now) gets "lost in translation" when/if it ships to Japan, and we end up with a toned down and not so "active" AI in the final game, and yet again we feel demos were better then retail code.

We all (or the majority because there are a couple of "concern trolls" here and @ WENB too) want the best from the game, but we've got to be absolutely sure about what we're reporting on, if it's indeed how we think it is, 'cause it may end up not being the best for the game after all.
Click to expand...
Exactly remember everyone complaining about the referees being too strict then in the final version they became so poor.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

It won't be the first year, when our moaning causes the game to suffer. So much info can be lost in traslation, due to the distance from us to KONAMI and also imagine if they indeed tune down the Active AI, I'll personally hunt the guy that've started this nonsense and beat him with Fifa 12's copy till he starts to beg for mercy!
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

everyone please! stop moaning about this running bug. We can make a different. We DO NOT want a same thing happen to pes2012 final release like pes2011 which turned into a mess and could not live up to its demo.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

mancan said:
Now read what he says now. the guy is passionate even more than us and thats why he is so upset. im surprised he didnt go crazy before.
"Sorry for the offensive language guys, but I'm so upset about everything.

PES is a huge part of my life, you guys know I'm one of the biggest fans out there. But at the same time, we've been quick to point out flaws. I really wish Gamescom didn't happen, and Konami just released a demo. As you would all have been focused on the same things as me. I'm not trying to hide a problem, just focus on the one that is real.

I think if PES 2012 comes out in a state that I'm not pleased with, then I'm definitely leaving this site business. I'm not having people who I try and help and represent ruin a game I'm working hard with the fans to create with Konami. So disheartening."

just give the guy a break.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but this is total BS. What the hell is this guy on, I mean come on, yes he does a lot for the community and great that he invited the community to his house to play the preview code, but what gives him the right to be so abusive to people who are raising a issue which in the eyes of those people is important.

If the game is ruined (which I don't think it will be), it won't be the communities fault, it will Konami's fault as they are the ones who made it.

Anyhow, look forward to the 2 demos that are released!
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

LOL I love the drama that ensues when PES is released. this year we have Evo web freaking playtesters and people still panic after some noob has discredited them. People need to chill the f out. Cant wait for this damn demo anymore.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

_anderson said:
I think his worry is real tbh, we've had enoguh examples of it in the last couple of years, Konami sometimes does the wrong things with feedback they get from people. The fact that the great majority of people agree that last year, the demo was better than the final code, speaks for itself.

I frankly worry too that all this mess (because it is a real freaking mess right now) gets "lost in translation" when/if it ships to Japan, and we end up with a toned down and not so "active" AI in the final game, and yet again we feel demos were better then retail code.

We all (or the majority because there are a couple of "concern trolls" here and @ WENB too) want the best from the game, but we've got to be absolutely sure about what we're reporting on, if it's indeed how we think it is, 'cause it may end up not being the best for the game after all.
Click to expand...

ohhh mr. anderson
aren't these ur comments in wenb before adam showed u some anger then u changed ur opinion 180 degrees for fear of banning


http://kitanamedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5153&p=239227&sid=bea408d047102ce901c5ff4a6630069d#p239227
The fact that it wasn't in older builds nor the gamescom trailer means it's a build bug. We probably won't feel it in the demo because well, it's older code.

I'm not too worried about it and CERTAINLY ISN'T A GAMEBREAKER (unless it's exploitable, but it doesn't seem to be so wtf? Those type of statements are completely retarded specially if you haven't played it yet. People ditching PES 2012 already because of it have an IQ of 50.) but would like to know more about it and see it toned down, mainly on defense.

And then again, we haven't seen enough to judge it.
Click to expand...

http://kitanamedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5153&p=239235&sid=bea408d047102ce901c5ff4a6630069d#p239235
Yep, it happens nearly every time both with human and cpu players, they pass the ball, sprint for 2 seconds and then stop and get back to position. Like if the L1 button was pressed all the time.

It's not that worrying but it does indeed seem to be a bug, and it wasn't there in older builds (may be the reason why Adam doesn't see it). Runs are supposed to be contextual like we see on the trailer and older vids, where they happen naturally and not like some kind of trigger which is what's happening right now.
Click to expand...

http://kitanamedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5153&p=239208&sid=bea408d047102ce901c5ff4a6630069d#p239208

One thing for sure though, if this is something necessary to make the AI feel so "alive" as it does right now, I think they should just leave it like that, attacking CPU is SPOT ON in these vids, if they tone down the number of 1-2's that feeling could be lost, and I don't want that. I want the AI to rape me. Sideways.
Click to expand...

http://kitanamedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5153&p=239194&sid=bea408d047102ce901c5ff4a6630069d#p239194

And that's how originally see it, and tbf the only thing bothering me is seeing the CPU CB doing the same. Alright they should move forward to support the player with the ball if they have space (like they do IRL), but surely they shouldn't sprint for it?

Like you said, it's more of a visual thing to me.
Click to expand...

http://kitanamedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5153&p=239192&sid=bea408d047102ce901c5ff4a6630069d#p239192

A vid regarding the "pass and run" bug:


Imo I originally didn't saw it as a bug but it deffo needs toning down, seeing as it seems to happen nearly every time. We need more info regarding this.
Click to expand...

these are only half of ur comments on the pass run bug , u were moaning a lot about that even more than the mates here , why we weren't afraid of that language barrier so that konami may misinterpret it , but after adam's warning to u , u shut up ur mouth and want all people here do like what u r doing ,
please don't act like that here , don't try to play that adam's role here , leave people expressing their opinions and fears the way they want , let them moan like u did the previous days there
 
Last edited:
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Since i'm banned from WENB forum (because i have a different opinion than all the other members) i decided to join here. Don't ban me ;)

On the one hand i understand Adam, on the other hand i don't. Don't know if anyone listened to the first PES 2012 podcast they made? Adam:" Goalkeepers, big surprise, at this current stage they are already better than last year. I didn't expect them to be that good. And from now on they can only get better." This is about two months ago!

So why worry about goalkeepers? Better than PES 2011? Good enough. And now for the first time we really see the AI. Players are active, very active, too active! Maybe not the offensive minded players, but the defenders! And everyone who knows football, also knows, that a defender doesn't act the way gamescom videos show. After every single pass they move forward. How many times i heard the AI are making the runs for you, but not timeless, they make intelligent runs. Where are the intelligent runs or the intelligent acting in defense? This causes lots of counter attacks and what if i wanna play a pass back? Ooops my defender is already gone. "Where are you`? - "I'm in midfield. It's crazy over there" - "Ok wait i pass the ball and then i come with you" OMG This has nothing to do with intelligent AI and for many people, this could be a potential gamebreaker, because the AI forces you to attack the whole time.

I've never seen such a bad thing, that influences tactics and build up play in any other PES game.

Sorry but this is my opinion and thankfully there are others who agree with me.
 
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

kamy100 said:
I'm sorry but this is total BS. What the hell is this guy on, I mean come on, yes he does a lot for the community and great that he invited the community to his house to play the preview code, but what gives him the right to be so abusive to people who are raising a issue which in the eyes of those people is important.

If the game is ruined (which I don't think it will be), it won't be the communities fault, it will Konami's fault as they are the ones who made it.

Anyhow, look forward to the 2 demos that are released!
Click to expand...

It isn't that they raised the issue which pissed him off. It's that it was raised continually by the same people in the same way even though no new information had arose and even though they'd stated again and again, from the people at Gamescom, ie, Asim, Suffwan, Bamber and so forth, that there is no big problem. He said it right from the start: if there is a problem in the code he gets in the next few days, or the demo, then reopening the discussion might be worthy... but it's got to the point where the discussion is stupidly going round in circles ad infinitum and ad nauseum.

I see what everyone here sees in those videos - and if it looks like that in the demo, or full game, I'll be disappointed - but I trust the views of those who've actually played it.

Yeah, he lost his cool and I'm sure everyone, including him, wishes he hadn't - but he does this for the community. He spends a lot of time, effort, and money to do things which are fantastic for this community, but he isn't a God, nor a Saint. He does enough for all of us PES fans to make an occasional expletive-ridden rant more than understandable.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom