PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

fmicablues7 said:
I think you didn't get the point Bond!JamesBond! made. I can only talk for myself, when i'm talking about scripting, i'm talking about catch-up bug, players not getting where i want them to be, etc... Also the fact that tactics are too rigid, make pirlo a dmf in pes 2017, he will act like a fucking kante, that is not pirlo, old ps2 game were brilliant in player individuality because the players felt and played based on stats and tactics. Pes 2017 put too much emphasis on tactics, it's like the manager is more important than the players, that is not the case in real football imo.

Edit: I don't want to sound like i despise every modern football games, because that is not the case, i absolutely loved fifa 16 before ea ruined it with the patches, and really thought i would desinstall pes 5/6 forever, but pes 2017 isn't there yet.
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Set Pirlo how a DM/CM Build up , with the most of passing ability and all works fine. Of course i mean In fluid scheme : DM at KickOff, CM in the other two phases
 
In terms of animations and transitions I think probably FIFA 14 and FIFA 16 were the best ones in history. Specially from Gameplay camera (which is what matters to me). Other than that, what PES 17 does better is to give you the sensation that anything and everything can happen in a match. I've played some big tensioning matches and when (if) I won I was literally smiling and celebrating with myself (nothing sexual, don't worry) like I haven't done since I was a child.

Just the other day I played the FA CUP Finals with ManCity against Chelsea and it was the best match I've ever played (or something like that). I ended up winner. 3-2 in the very last minute with a very rare goal which I loved because it wasn't a nice goal, but it was a necessary one.
 
By the way, that thing when you have to run in a straight line to get the ball is so annoying and is one of those scripted things. They need to take that off completely, I want to have full control to where I want to run. It's more realistic and rewarding that way. Also cutting the ball needs to be tweaked, its so easy to cut the ball in this year's version. I think in PES 2013 we had the full control system for cutting the ball and also direction. That needs to come back.

Also the lack of contact when running in the wings or deep down the defense, there is like no body contact/balance and so what Konami does they add a halfed ass idea of this catching bug so that the game doesn't become easy. Its like there is no way I can push or pull the player down or even shove the player to the side, which is very common in football. It's just not fun, I think in PES 2014 they had something called MASS which is basically what I'm asking for, was still not fully utilized and executed but the fact that it was there is great. If you don't have those fundamentals then it's just not football.
 
Catch up bug has always been present. I can't remember the last game in which a fast player with the ball could out-run a slow player without the ball. That's the one thing I hate the most about Konami games. No matter if you are Usain Bolt and have just received the perfect ball to run a few yards and then score, some defender will ALWAYS catch up to you.
 
The full control thing for defending was like this: skip to 4:30


If this will be a thing again you will see more fouls and even penalties because it's not scripted and you will have to time it well.
 
It's true that sometimes moving with the ball, dribbling, sprinting, feels somewhat stiff in PES 2017, which makes some of the things you perform feel less rewarding. Like a nutmeg, or dribble around 2 or 3 opponents. That's what I loved about PES 2013. It felt so smooth at this.
 
PES94 said:
By the way, that thing when you have to run in a straight line to get the ball is so annoying and is one of those scripted things. They need to take that off completely, I want to have full control to where I want to run. It's more realistic and rewarding that way. Also cutting the ball needs to be tweaked, its so easy to cut the ball in this year's version. I think in PES 2013 we had the full control system for cutting the ball and also direction. That needs to come back.

Also the lack of contact when running in the wings or deep down the defense, there is like no body contact/balance and so what Konami does they add a halfed ass idea of this catching bug so that the game doesn't become easy. Its like there is no way I can push or pull the player down or even shove the player to the side, which is very common in football. It's just not fun, I think in PES 2014 they had something called MASS which is basically what I'm asking for, was still not fully utilized and executed but the fact that it was there is great. If you don't have those fundamentals then it's just not football.
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Agree for both.. but forget about 2014.. that mass system is so scripted.. let them improve from what 2017 has..
 
I'm very confident in PES 2018. They always surprise us with special touches here and there.

From PES 2014 until now, they've shown a certain level of commitment and they've been improving version after version in the right areas. Of course they could have done more year after year instead of taking baby-steps, but still... the things that bothered me from 2014 were fixed in 2015. The things that bothered me from 2015 were fixed in 2016. And again in 2017.

The things they never fix are: The awful pitches. Clor palettes. Licenses. Stadiums. Catch-up bug. Of course some of these are beyond their reach. But others are just inadmissible nowadays.
 
Ameppe said:
Are we talking about this Pes 5?


Notice how the players are stuck moving just a bit when receiving every pass, many times even slowing down to accomodate the ball.That is not player movement, that is AI assisted movement that kicks in as soon as you are about to receive the ball (receiver automatically going towards the ball). In fact in Pes 5 passing was much more assisted and on rails, and the AI could easily adjust players movement resulting in a smoother transition from passing to receiving the ball, but the movement you can do when receiving the ball is much more limited than in Pes 2017.

What about scripted ball physics? Every time the CPU defenders clear the ball with an header the resulting trajectory is always the same, high floating ball. That is scripted ball physics. It's still present in Pes 2017, this same movement, this same ball trajectory...

The only thing i like in that video are the fouls. Much more fouls, as it should be. In Pes 2017 referees play advantage rule too frequently, giving too few fouls and the match pace is an end to end one because of this too. It's improved in Pes 2017 compared to Pes 2016 but still wrong.
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i'm talking about WE9LE not PES 5.
"players are stuck moving just a bit when receiving every pass" this is big in Fifa 17. But not as noticeable if any in WE9LE.
Ball physics are way less scripted in WE9LE with patch. Play both WE9LE and PES 2017 it's very noticeable.
PES 2017 foul rules are off, i believe it's the collision system and Fox engine problem because if the collisions aren't accurate then it's impossible for accurate penalties. Look how good Fifa 17 is in this. Pes 6 days where good to.
Konami fucked up big time scrapping the WE9LE/PES 5/6 base. Imagine today's graphics with WE9LE/PES 5/6 base, Fifa would've never become a giant.

PES94 said:
By the way, that thing when you have to run in a straight line to get the ball is so annoying and is one of those scripted things. They need to take that off completely.
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This is such a bad development idea it completely impacts game play in a negative way. So the game play in PES 2017 isn't as great as they claim. Give me total control that = great game play.

PES94 said:
The full control thing for defending was like this: skip to 4:30


If this will be a thing again you will see more fouls and even penalties because it's not scripted and you will have to time it well.
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It's better than today's system.
 
Chuny said:
I'm very confident in PES 2018. They always surprise us with special touches here and there.

From PES 2014 until now, they've shown a certain level of commitment and they've been improving version after version in the right areas. Of course they could have done more year after year instead of taking baby-steps, but still... the things that bothered me from 2014 were fixed in 2015. The things that bothered me from 2015 were fixed in 2016. And again in 2017.

The things they never fix are: The awful pitches. Clor palettes. Licenses. Stadiums. Catch-up bug. Of course some of these are beyond their reach. But others are just inadmissible nowadays.
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I am also very confident. They have made huge strides in PES 17. This is why I am hard on them because one or two adjustments, as I've been saying since the Demo videos, is all that is needed.

Also, I don't think comparing the detailed physics/animations/etc of PES5 v PES 17 is valid. There are so many layers to defend each position, it is a complete set up for disaster. My reference to the older games is directly correlated with the areas in which PES 17 can improve, not the entire scale of the two. Basically, comparing PES5 to PES 17 is a strawberry to apples conversation, lol.
 
Matt10 said:
I am also very confident. They have made huge strides in PES 17. This is why I am hard on them because one or two adjustments, as I've been saying since the Demo videos, is all that is needed.

Also, I don't think comparing the detailed physics/animations/etc of PES5 v PES 17 is valid. There are so many layers to defend each position, it is a complete set up for disaster. My reference to the older games is directly correlated with the areas in which PES 17 can improve, not the entire scale of the two. Basically, comparing PES5 to PES 17 is a strawberry to apples conversation, lol.
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Yes, I agree. But I'm one to think that if you want to progress or improve, you either have to set new standards or copy from the best. In this case, with the limited resources Konami has, they can only aspire to be as good as FIFA in some areas like animations (quantity, quality, etc). At least for now. Maybe in a couple of years, they might be in a better position to invest in the necessary technology and tools to up the bar to a new level, higher than EA's.
 
Chuny said:
Yes, I agree. But I'm one to think that if you want to progress or improve, you either have to set new standards or copy from the best. In this case, with the limited resources Konami has, they can only aspire to be as good as FIFA in some areas like animations (quantity, quality, etc). At least for now. Maybe in a couple of years, they might be in a better position to invest in the necessary technology and tools to up the bar to a new level, higher than EA's.
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what did you read that made you believe Konami has limited resources?
this company makes close to a billion a year from gambling / mobile games.
Didn't PES 2017 sell 3mill copies? Or? Even 2mill copies x 60 is 120mill dollars.
Konami's the EA of Japan.
Konami's rich but cheap..
 
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Bond!JamesBond! said:
what did you read that made you believe Konami has limited resources?
this company makes close to a billion a year from gambling / mobile games.
Didn't PES 2017 sell 3mill copies? Or? Even 2mill copies x 60 is 120mill dollars.
Konami's the EA of Japan.
Konami's rich but cheap..
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Where did you get the PES 2017 sales from? I'm curious.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
what did you read that made you believe Konami has limited resources?
this company makes close to a billion a year from gambling / mobile games.
Didn't PES 2017 sell 3mill copies? Or? Even 2mill copies x 60 is 120mill dollars.
Konami's the EA of Japan.
Konami's rich but cheap..
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I'm sorry but this is a rather simplistic post.
The problem with it is that you don't distinguish Konami as a company and the development team of PES.

I may well be that Konami makes close to a billion a year, but what good is to PES if the development team don't get enough funds to invest in their franchise. This seems pretty Obvious if you lsiten to Adam Bhatti in various podcasts.

IMO PES serves as a cashcow (My team) for Konami...

I also think that stressing the obvious fact that Konami is cheap is not the best way forward for what we all want (a PES2018 that is better than the latest version, although i still play that a lot).
 
gerd said:
I'm sorry but this is a rather simplistic post.
The problem with it is that you don't distinguish Konami as a company and the development team of PES.

I may well be that Konami makes close to a billion a year, but what good is to PES if the development team don't get enough funds to invest in their franchise. This seems pretty Obvious if you lsiten to Adam Bhatti in various podcasts.

IMO PES serves as a cashcow (My team) for Konami...

I also think that stressing the obvious fact that Konami is cheap is not the best way forward for what we all want (a PES2018 that is better than the latest version, although i still play that a lot).
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Exactly. And Adam has recently tweeted something like "PES is still alive only because of its real fans"... or something among those lines. Which makes you wonder...

Anyways, I want to truly start a campaign of encouragement towards not pirating PES 2018 on PC. I know it's kind of stating the obvious since we don't support piracy here. But, I would like to really support Konami on this one IF they decide to give us a current gen product, on par with PS4.
 
Real fans? The ones who are happy to receive updated boots and faces in a data pack rather than actually having fundamental issues with the game resolved? Its them type of "Real Fans" who are holding back the development of the game.
 
TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal! said:
Real fans? The ones who are happy to receive updated boots and faces in a data pack rather than actually having fundamental issues with the game resolved? Its them type of "Real Fans" who are holding back the development of the game.
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I do agree, to a point. I think they did listen in many areas in which they fixed some issues. However, the overcompensated to areas that noone was complaining about. For example, the perfect, on the laces, strikes from every single player. It's like the fans said "PES is known for it's goal scoring", and Konami respond with "Oh, right, well let's just jack up the shot power and accuracy then!".

Then they must have listened to the tactical gurus, and heard "Oh, PES would be great if the tactics actually worked," and Konami say, "Oh, really? Well here you go, tactics and advanced tactics...for everything! Now team identity will really stand out!". What they actually did was make tactics rigid, robotic, and if a team is set up for those tactics - there is no chance that they will ever change. Again, just overcompensation.

I think KONAMI are still finding the best balance of things. They should listen to the real, hardcore, fans, but they need a middle man (men/women) to help them determine to what degree of effectiveness should be used. Their current track record is not that subtle.
 
gerd said:
I'm sorry but this is a rather simplistic post.
The problem with it is that you don't distinguish Konami as a company and the development team of PES.
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why should i have to? Just making a point, money is available.

gerd said:
I may well be that Konami makes close to a billion a year, but what good is to PES if the development team don't get enough funds to invest in their franchise. This seems pretty Obvious if you lsiten to Adam Bhatti in various podcasts.
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why do you think development team doesn't get enough funds? Cheap Konami maybe? This could just be twisting truth from Adam, he is a salesman. I wouldn't believe everything a salesman says.

By the way i was just pointing out fact, not bashing Konami or others here.


PES94 said:
Where did you get the PES 2017 sales from? I'm curious.
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funny stuff PES94, you spent that time digging up those numbers. You'll see my point is strong.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
why should i have to? Just making a point, money is available.

why do you think development team doesn't get enough funds? Cheap Konami maybe?
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Errr....
Maybe THIS is why?

C9yZPRyUQAINcWC.jpg
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
what's your point?
11.7% of total gaming industry split by just two companies, is making my point even stronger.

that's a lot of dough bro....
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My point is that Konami funds the PES team according to what sells most, which are not sport games, let alone football games (NFL and NBA sold more than FIFA in 2016. PES isn't even near).

C9yZblTVoAAid4C.jpg
 
Chuny said:
My point is that Konami funds the PES team according to what sells most, which are not sport games, let alone football games (NFL and NBA sold more than FIFA in 2016. PES isn't even near).

C9yZblTVoAAid4C.jpg
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which are not sport games. Even though this chart isn't world wide which makes it irrelevant, it still puts sports games in the top ten plus they are yearly incomes, while for example OVERWATCH is not.
soccer/football games have around a twelve million copies per year pool out there, greater than any other sport.
I love Konami's baseball games so i don't hate Konami like a lot of x fans. I just want to point out they are not spending like they should for a sixty dollar game.
 
Thespeedster84 said:
Agree for both.. but forget about 2014.. that mass system is so scripted.. let them improve from what 2017 has..
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MASS system was actually great. The way limbs make contact with limbs feels very substantial. The contact and player weight felt real, every heel clip, every stomp with studs was accounted for, lest the contact on tackles. If you get the player and the ball, yellow cards will surely be given. All these in the video were carded, taken from post match highlights. There's more encouragement to win the ball cleanly, and not take the legs with the challenge, which forced us look for the player/ball separation, every time we enforce. PES15-17 has not done this well since.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
which are not sport games. Even though this chart isn't world wide which makes it irrelevant, it still puts sports games in the top ten plus they are yearly incomes, while for example OVERWATCH is not.
soccer/football games have around a twelve million copies per year pool out there, greater than any other sport.
I love Konami's baseball games so i don't hate Konami like a lot of x fans. I just want to point out they are not spending like they should for a sixty dollar game.
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Konami has already given up on PYS.
 
Deco said:
I was watching that video today vxcmplx which led me to more of your vids . . ..good stuff buddy.
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Thanks! I usually just upload random moments, might start doing something more theme-based.

How did u come across the vid? I just uploaded less than a day ago
 
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