PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[_anderson]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

I can see PES 2012 going in the right direction. But now when the PES guy is vice president (or whatever) for Konami, I'm afraid they will put more money in it and try to challenge EA again and try to make it a game for everyone (more arcady and shallow).

I actually rather see them give up and just go back trying to make it for the sim heads and get popular because of sim heads recommending it to others. Like how NBA2K sank EA NBA because the sim heads told everyone to play it if they knew anything about basketball. NBA2K or GTFO.

Word is PES2012 focus on the "hardcore". Whatever hardcore really means, I doubt that it means arcade. Even if they are putting more money into PES (which they are, PES is number two Konami title after MGS now) I doubt that Konami will ever be looking for an arcade game now, after what happened with PES 2008 and all!

 

[Gab_]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

Word is PES2012 focus on the "hardcore". Whatever hardcore really means, I doubt that it means arcade. Even if they are putting more money into PES (which they are, PES is number two Konami title after MGS now) I doubt that Konami will ever be looking for an arcade game now, after what happened with PES 2008 and all!

Yes, that's why I said 2012 will surely go in the right direction. Your friend Adam said himself that he can imagine it being big changes for PES 2013 and forward because of an old PES guy being so high in the rankings at Konami. And if PES 2012 is going hardcore sim, then big changes would probably only be negative.

 

[kobayashi]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

About Jon tweet, although obviously you "can't trust his words" because it's "his game", I find it peculiar that he choose to point out the AI instead of anything else.

AI is great apart from a few bugs, i wanted to hear him talk about smoothing the animations and adding a shitload more.

People have been writing in about this being a issue, thing is i'm sure Konami would know what to do really. It dosen't really need to be said.

Adding more animations and making them fluid and flow together realistically with good responsiveness shouldn't be too much of an issue since. Konami don't have to add loads of new functions to the game like they did with PES 2011.

The base is there, so it's a question of just how much they added to it. The most important thing is the animations tough.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

Agree with Kobayashi, but it's encouraging to hear them focusing their hype on the AI at least. On a totally superficial level, as well as animations, I think it's about time the game had a major audio overhaul. I was thinking about it when playing the other day. The atmosphere generated is a massive part of the football experience in games, and currently the commentators sound like they're in a broom cupboard. The crowd chants and general atmosphere is also far too 'tinny' sounding, chants awful, and really works against all the great work that ML and Champions League set out.

Actually, where did they get some of the commentary? It sounds like direct, awkward translations from Japanese on occasion. I mean, where do they get "the order of the boot applied" from? John Champion must have found it really odd when he was asked to read that out.

 

[Rob92]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

"He couldn't hit a barn door, let alone the corner flag!"

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

More commentary like this for next year please Konami

YouTube - Alan Partridge - Eat my Goal

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

It always used to be the case that Konami would supply the scripts for the commentators to read, hence the nonsensical 'lost in translation' awfulness of the results. Nothing has seemingly changed.

They should give the commentators more freedom to put across their own style for a much more authentic, natural end product. Just let them talk. EA probably do this with Fifa. I know they do with Madden - they just let Cris Collinsworth free-style and talk about the game, edit the best bits and put it all together.

For the real commentary master-class it's NBA 2K every time. It's a cut above every other sports game.

 

[Northzzz]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

Word is PES2012 focus on the "hardcore". Whatever hardcore really means, I doubt that it means arcade.

The problem i have is that i don't trust them to think that hardcore stuff should end on the pitch. Most of the best features of the old PES' were pretty arcadey i.e Master League, International Challenge, Training Mode etc. ML by comparison now feels completely rubbish. They simply don't have enough licenses or leagues or even fake teams/leagues to try to forward the more realistic league structure that they are doing now.

I went back to WE9LE the other month and whilst the game is nowhere near as technically good, the ML blows pes 2011's ML out of the water for shear enjoyment. It used to be like an RPG, now it's more like a lesser copy of Fifa 2005's career mode.

About Jon tweet, although obviously you "can't trust his words" because it's "his game"

I agree. People on here destroy Rutter even though he has pretty much just the same guy as Jon Murphy i.e. bigging up the game regardless.

Agree with Kobayashi, but it's encouraging to hear them focusing their hype on the AI at least.

Like Pes 2008 and 'teamvision'

Forgive me for being pessimistic. I'm pretty miffed about this whole PSN thing tonight.

 

[Rob92]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

I hope they remove the rainbow flick - it's pointless.

I've only ever seen it in professional football two or three times, the only time I remember being by a Turkish player in the 2002 World Cup.

The rest of the tricks in the game are realistic, the rainbow flick is just so out of place.

 

[_anderson]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

@Northzzz
I see what you mean. But I think hardcore in this case should be referring to gameplay only. Not sure how to comment on game modes right now, fun is a subjective thing, they should get it back but it doesn't necessarily need to be an arcade element. On a side note, about ML, I think it's more arcade now then ever before because of the ridiculous transfer system alone.
---

About the AI, I think you missed the point. What we're saying (and sounds like a good indicator with no fancy names attached) is that out of a million things he could have mentioned, like graphics, animations and other stuff, he specifically decided to start the hype's train engine with two words, "gameplay" and "AI". A bit far from the Teamvision marketing stunt I think.

 

[_anderson]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

AI is great apart from a few bugs, i wanted to hear him talk about smoothing the animations and adding a shitload more.

People have been writing in about this being a issue, thing is i'm sure Konami would know what to do really. It dosen't really need to be said.

Adding more animations and making them fluid and flow together realistically with good responsiveness shouldn't be too much of an issue since. Konami don't have to add loads of new functions to the game like they did with PES 2011.

The base is there, so it's a question of just how much they added to it. The most important thing is the animations tough.

I'm pretty sure Konami knows animations aren't good, and besides that, there needs to be tons more, it all needs to be more dynamic.

And tbh I'm not sure if the AI is great either, they hardly ever attack or create something unpredictable.

AI may be decent most of the times but that's about it, it's very limited and unrealistic. It's one of the things PES 5 and co. did well in almost every aspect.

Especially on the defense, the AI reacted so realistically to players attacks, it blocked shots, tried to tackle the ball in every way possible, actually getting their legs out. And when everything else failed they would tackle from behind if they had to, because unlike now, if you had taken care of the last defender you could sprint away from them successfully and realistically depending on their and your own stats.

 

[_anderson]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

It always used to be the case that Konami would supply the scripts for the commentators to read, hence the nonsensical 'lost in translation' awfulness of the results. Nothing has seemingly changed.

They should give the commentators more freedom to put across their own style for a much more authentic, natural end product. Just let them talk. EA probably do this with Fifa. I know they do with Madden - they just let Cris Collinsworth free-style and talk about the game, edit the best bits and put it all together.

For the real commentary master-class it's NBA 2K every time. It's a cut above every other sports game.

I'm not sure since when this happens, but recently a tweet from the new FIFA commentator made it clear that they write their own scripts.

 

[Northzzz]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

About the AI, I think you missed the point. What we're saying (and sounds like a good indicator with no fancy names attached) is that out of a million things he could have mentioned, like graphics, animations and other stuff, he specifically decided to start the hype's train engine with two words, "gameplay" and "AI". A bit far from the Teamvision marketing stunt I think.

I guess i was being facetious. I am in staunch hope of PES 2012 being a great return to form so i do acknowledge that this is a good move on their part.

 

[dannyfc2]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

I've given up asking for decent atmosphere. Sound design is such a simple but important part for a football game but both companies have neglected it for as long as I can remember.

Tbh I have faith they'll maintain more of a simulation feel, simply because they aren't in a position to go toe-to-toe with EA for an arcade game. Those that are into pick up n' play arcade focused gameplay are the type that are most easily swayed by licensing and presentation, two elements EA will always have the upper hand on. Konami's best strategy is try to emulate football as much as possible, and hopefully attain enough of the 'hardcore' to sway mainstream opinion back to PES.

I'm sure an awful lot of arcade gamers played early PES games simply because it was considered the best game on the market, without understanding why.

 

[dannyfc2]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

Also on the subject of tricks, for the love of God bring back shoulder button stepovers.

 

[jcvf90]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

Also on the subject of tricks, for the love of God bring back shoulder button stepovers.

TBH, I love the the Right stick step overs. Feels more intuitive, depending on how you do the circle, the leg will go turn that way and then you can create the space with a little touch to the inside or outside.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

It always used to be the case that Konami would supply the scripts for the commentators to read, hence the nonsensical 'lost in translation' awfulness of the results. Nothing has seemingly changed.

They should give the commentators more freedom to put across their own style for a much more authentic, natural end product. Just let them talk. EA probably do this with Fifa. I know they do with Madden - they just let Cris Collinsworth free-style and talk about the game, edit the best bits and put it all together.

For the real commentary master-class it's NBA 2K every time. It's a cut above every other sports game.

Yeah, agreed. If Konami though actually still write the script for the Japanese version then send a translation to be used in Europe then that's both lazy and bizarre. Still, you're right, it must be what they're still doing. For such a big franchise, why they don't let Konami's European team do the whe commentary from script upwards is madness. Surely someone must have come up with that idea by now, it's plain common sense.

Their whole approach to sound design seems very cheap to me, rather than proper samples of club chants they make up songs that don't exist (that "Man u, Man u FC, okay!" chant for one). I also remember looking in disbelief when I saw avideo of Konami recording a crowd chant for PES2011. A 60,000 crowd replicated by recording half a dozen men shouting down a microphone in a broom cupboard. I kid you not.

 

[tobi]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

Also on the subject of tricks, for the love of God bring back shoulder button stepovers.

I've gotten used to the combination of L1 and up but I'd love for the stepovers to return to the button.

Using and up to a stepover can be too much work sometimes, it shouldn't require pressing two different buttons to do a simple stepover.

 

[xPJRx]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

Have to agree here... if anyone has watched a game of football whilst abroad wither with foreign commentary or no commentary at all you'll know the game feels alot flatter and empty almost.
Good commentary helps to build the tension, set the scene and helps the game being played flow along, whilst engaging the viewer.
PES commentary is dog sh*t!!!!

Lawrenson was god damn awful, Beglin is just awful, and Champion is a bit one toned and predictable.
The PES commentary often says things that are not even happening in the game, its very 'in the moment' but never eludes to your place in the table, the run in you may have, top scorers, injuries etc. This would really elevate the match atmosphere part of the game to a new level.
If any of you have seen the youtube clip from the PC commentary patch that uses the World Cup Commentary from Andy Townsend and Clive Tyldesly you'll see how much more energetic it feels.

Konami should look to getting John Motson, Andy Townsend, Clive Tyldsley, Jonathan Greene, somebody that actually has a bit of passion and can deliver an emphatic sounding accompaniment to the game. And leave the script writing to the commentators, or let them just go with it.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

I actually don't mind Beglin too much, for me it's the fact that the commentators themselves don't really sound like they're actually at the game, but more like a voiceover. It's really off-putting, it feels detached from the game itself. The crowd atmosphere does too, it's kind if hollow sounding like the stadiums are half empty. Konami only needs to listen to the match audio for FIFA World Cup 2010 to see how it enhances a game when done properly. How can such a massive company not have any senior employee there who releases this sort of thing?

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

Oh, and the ball audio. Blimey. Still sounds like a massive drum being banged every time it's kicked. I know a fair few audio designers for video games and they think PES' sound is comedy gold.....

Might post some of this in the feedback section for PES2012. Do Konami pay any attention to this site?

 

[xPJRx]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

Well apparently the recent code that Jon Murphy received of PES12 has lots of features added whereby community feedback has driven it, so i guess the guys here at WENB feedback the most appropriate points to Konami.
Well goto the PES shop and you can buy more audio for the game... Konami classic arcade Kung Fu sounds, to go with the pumpkin head balls ..... belies belief!!

 

[jcvf90]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

I've gotten used to the combination of L1 and up but I'd love for the stepovers to return to the button.

Using and up to a stepover can be too much work sometimes, it shouldn't require pressing two different buttons to do a simple stepover.

You don't have to press two buttons for step over. Just turn the right stick as if you were doing step overs with your finger. No other buttons need to be pressed.

 

[Northzzz]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

rather than proper samples of club chants they make up songs that don't exist (that "Man u, Man u FC, okay!" chant for one).

That actually does exist as a real chant but it's so shit that it rarely gets sung. I've heard it before at OT.

Your point still stands, the sound quality and creativity, or lack there of, is absolutely abominable. They absolutely need to have crowd fx seperate from game fx too - turn everything down to hear the crowd and all you can hear is BOOM, BOOM, BOOM every time a player kicks the ball. Is there a microphone in that ball? (which you mentioned too, i've just seen your other post)

 

[Northzzz]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

Have to agree here... if anyone has watched a game of football whilst abroad wither with foreign commentary or no commentary at all you'll know the game feels alot flatter and empty almost.
Good commentary helps to build the tension, set the scene and helps the game being played flow along, whilst engaging the viewer.
PES commentary is dog sh*t!!!!

I watched the Man Utd game in a loud bar yesterday and i commented to someone i was with how without being able to hear the commentary the game feels weird to watch. It doesn't seem to flow as well. It might because i'm used to commentary or because it good to have your own thoughts (was that a foul, offside etc) affirmed by the commentary team but there's something there. Like when a goal is scored, it just felt flat and because most people weren't there to watch the football there wasn't much cheering as you normally expect watching football somewhere.

 

[tobi]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

You don't have to press two buttons for step over. Just turn the right stick as if you were doing step overs with your finger. No other buttons need to be pressed.

I've never seen this happen before, is it pressure sensitive?

 

[jcvf90]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

I've never seen this happen before, is it pressure sensitive?

Not sure what you mean, but just move the right stick in a circular motion as you are dribbling, and it will do step overs. No need to press anything else.

 

[tobi]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

In some situations some players drop their shoulder and do little shimmys when I move the stick but I've never seen them do a step over.

 

[_anderson]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

Oh, and the ball audio. Blimey. Still sounds like a massive drum being banged every time it's kicked. I know a fair few audio designers for video games and they think PES' sound is comedy gold.....

Might post some of this in the feedback section for PES2012. Do Konami pay any attention to this site?

Oh I can't agree there, I think they nearly nailed it with ball sounds this year. There's a problem though, in real matches, you do not hear the ball

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread

I've given up asking for decent atmosphere. Sound design is such a simple but important part for a football game but both companies have neglected it for as long as I can remember.

Yeah, agreed. If Konami though actually still write the script for the Japanese version then send a translation to be used in Europe then that's both lazy and bizarre. Still, you're right, it must be what they're still doing. For such a big franchise, why they don't let Konami's European team do the whe commentary from script upwards is madness. Surely someone must have come up with that idea by now, it's plain common sense.

Their whole approach to sound design seems very cheap to me, rather than proper samples of club chants they make up songs that don't exist (that "Man u, Man u FC, okay!" chant for one). I also remember looking in disbelief when I saw avideo of Konami recording a crowd chant for PES2011. A 60,000 crowd replicated by recording half a dozen men shouting down a microphone in a broom cupboard. I kid you not.

I really think it's about time Konami made a bigger investment in the future of PES and sub-contract work out to third parties. Stadium atmosphere and commentary has always been terrible and it would be much better if a European sound design studio handled all things audio. Watching those videos last year of Japanese blokes in a cupboard shouting into a microphone was cringe-worthy to say the least. Their approach to audio seems quite dated and I just don't think a few sound engineers at Konami have any kind of knowledge or authority on how to recreate the wonderful atmospheres in stadia across Europe.

Same goes for motion capture and animations. Konami don't have the luxury of an in-house motion capture facility like EA, so leave this side of things to a third party studio.

Oh, and the ball audio. Blimey. Still sounds like a massive drum being banged every time it's kicked. I know a fair few audio designers for video games and they think PES' sound is comedy gold.....

Might post some of this in the feedback section for PES2012. Do Konami pay any attention to this site?

Yep, some guy punching a football.

Oh, and no, don't think so.