PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Hope the announcement is better than last year's. Wasn't the first bit of info that famous 'Engineered for Freedom' video featuring what turned out to be a pre-renedered Messi running about a bit against a dark background. People went mental over it, claiming those were the in-game graphics and freaking about how amazing the detail was, right down to individually moving blades of grass!
 
...I believe those were actually in-game graphics, and not pre-rendered. Maybe someone has different information about it, though...

Still, if it's Seabass who's letting us know what's new, I'm imagining more of a studio-tour video.

Regards,

Paulo Tavares
 
Please make the emphasis on things such as the ridiculous pressure tactic and it having no ill affect on the team stamina wise and players in poor condition who seemingly have no ill affect on there team or there own performance

I want defenders to React to danger not Act on danger which i'd hope would go some way to eradicating the sad glitch player i encounter over 70% of the time , idiots who are able to use Augrero and Tevez in midfield which has no detriment to performance ......

Only listed a few and i suppose it won't be enough to guard myself against the zitty pubescent oink you play online who consider themselves clever because they weed out the ridiculous mistakes left by konami
 
Has there ever been a football whereby when you use players out of their natural position the game automatically decreases their attributes? I used to think it was in PES, i.e they automatically got the equivalent of a full down arrow but maybe that was just me thinking that would be the way because it makes sense.
 
I think PES 2011 does it explicitly - i.e. you play someone out of their position, and the overall rating decreases.

In previous PES' I would play many players out of their position, and I loved the results - I remember using Rui Costa as a DMF because I had so many people to use in my midfield :) And Sérgio Conceição as a RB or LB (he's a winger...).
 
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pjft said:
...I believe those were actually in-game graphics, and not pre-rendered. Maybe someone has different information about it, though...

Still, if it's Seabass who's letting us know what's new, I'm imagining more of a studio-tour video.

Regards,

Paulo Tavares
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From Adam:

I can't confirm anything to be honest, but lets just say there will be no fake render video this year
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pjft said:
I think PES 2011 does it explicitly - i.e. you play someone out of their position, and the overall rating decreases.

In previous PES' I would play many players out of their position, and I loved the results - I remember using Rui Costa as a DMF because I had so many people to use in my midfield :) And Sérgio Conceição as a RB or LB (he's a winger...).
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lol , your probably one of the ones ive encountered , each to their own i guess but i feel i want to play it as a sim and not arcarde , the ratings will show a drop in performance but it never shows itself on the pitch
 
3Lungz said:
lol , your probably one of the ones ive encountered , each to their own i guess but i feel i want to play it as a sim and not arcarde , the ratings will show a drop in performance but it never shows itself on the pitch
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Hey Sami, nice of you to sign-up, it must be the first PEEL member to go the other way for a change. :)

Now you know I love you, but I have to go with Pjft on this one. I've seen noticable differences by playing players out of position. I agree with the top-of-the-food chain type players this is less noticable for all the obvious reasons, but for lesser players, it happens. The thing with Konami and PES is that stats are pretty much everything, they have huge bearing, and I'm yet to really see anything they put into the game that doesnt serve a relevant purpose. For me, they dont add for gimmicks for the most part, so the lowering of ratings for players playing out of position, is what it is. Or at least that's how it feels to me personally anyway.

It's true in older PES titles, you could play players out of position and it didnt matter, but in recent times, and the increased emphasis on player individuality, it's definately moved away from that. I remember the debate as to whether or not it was in the games best interest to be able to have the option to instruct non-attacking defenders to push on. I believe it isnt, I much prefer this years offering, it promotes individuality further by focusing on the player in question and having him perform to his natural tendencies.
 
3Lungz said:
lol , your probably one of the ones ive encountered , each to their own i guess but i feel i want to play it as a sim and not arcarde , the ratings will show a drop in performance but it never shows itself on the pitch
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Just to make it clear, I'm not really a frequent online player - and I think that the most I played online was in the MLO beta. If I played online more, I'd join PEEL :)

When I mean "in previous PES' ", I'm actually referring back to ISS Pro Evo 2, PES1 and 2 tops.

I don't recall Sérgio Conceição being in PES as of late, it was a time when he was at the Portugal National squad... ;)

Regards,

Paulo Tavares
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Hey Sami, nice of you to sign-up, it must be the first PEEL member to go the other way for a change. :)

Now you know I love you, but I have to go with Pjft on this one. I've seen noticable differences by playing players out of position. I agree with the top-of-the-food chain type players this is less noticable for all the obvious reasons, but for lesser players, it happens. The thing with Konami and PES is that stats are pretty much everything, they have huge bearing, and I'm yet to really see anything they put into the game that doesnt serve a relevant purpose. For me, they dont add for gimmicks for the most part, so the lowering of ratings for players playing out of position, is what it is. Or at least that's how it feels to me personally anyway.

It's true in older PES titles, you could play players out of position and it didnt matter, but in recent times, and the increased emphasis on player individuality, it's definately moved away from that. I remember the debate as to whether or not it was in the games best interest to be able to have the option to instruct non-attacking defenders to push on. I believe it isnt, I much prefer this years offering, it promotes individuality further by focusing on the player in question and having him perform to his natural tendencies.
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I agree it's huge playing players out of position! I have made many a unbalancced formations with a right wing and no 'left winger'. Instead i put a attacking midfielder there because the player isn't comfortable on the wing.
 
Hi James my boy and NO i didn't know you loved me , lol i, guess your only human

Been here about a week and it makes for some very intellectual debate , i like it
 
So you lot are saying, if D'Agostino (who is an AM & DM), was played as a CM, he'd be less effective? How does that work exactly? The game shows a substantial drop in Ovrl Rating, but doesn't explicitly explain why. Are ALL attributes dropped? Technical as well? That's hardly realistic. I'd accept positional or mental determinants taking a dip, but lessening a players passing or shooting just because he's operating somewhere he normally doesn't is senseless IMO.

I'm all for originality, but not at the cost of removing tactical flexibility, especially considering you can rely on Konami on giving players wrong positions etc. In the lower leagues it's not unrare to see a player moved to a new position and thrive. If he's suited for it, (i.e. attributes), why shouldn't he?
 
Players don't play worse when out of position in terms of passing/shooting accuracy, dribbling/agility, strength/pace etc.
I've played Pires at SS and even CF when I've had loads of poor form arrows, and he's been more than good enough, in fact he's probably performed as well as Berbatov at SS despite not being assigned that position.

Positioning seems to be the only thing compromised, but I find this only really has a negative impact on the side when you use defenders or holding midfielders who can't play there, as a bit of poor positioning plays everyone onside, lets your opponent through on goal etc.

However, with attacking positions such as CF/SS/WF/AMF and possibly SMF, by all means play people out of position there if their attributes are suitable.

Overall ratings are such a casual way to pick your team, I preferred the old PES way, with just the hexagon thing and the list of attributes.
 
Rob92 said:
Overall ratings are such a casual way to pick your team, I preferred the old PES way, with just the hexagon thing and the list of attributes.
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I hate the overall ratings. They lead to lazy team selection, something which I can be guilty of I must admit. One of my hopes for PES2012 is that they are done away with.

Overall ratings are kind of meaningless. Individual attributes and special abilities are what matters when choosing a player for a particular position.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
I think we've had this chat before but you're on PS3? I'm in Australia on Xbox 360. Have the occasional game with another Aussie and 95% of the time they're lag free and awesome.
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Yeah I'm on PS3, although with PSN down I can't play online even if I wanted to.

The Aussie vs Aussie games are fine - that's why I'd like sub-leagues in Master League Online, so we could be pooled in either an "All-Australian" League (i.e. everyone in the Australian region), or even private leagues (with say 20 users set-up manually) like with the Fantasy Football web-based apps.
 
Lami said:
Guys do we have to go through this every time?
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We'll all be playing games via a cloud one day anyway.

As soon as Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo jump onto the cloud and it's not only "pay for game over net", but also "play game over the net" - then piracy will be a non-issue, they'll just kick off the offenders.
 
Cross platform worked on PES6, I think.

About players playing out of position, even though stats aren't affected much, but in ML the player's loyalty drops which in turn affects his performance in future games :)

If you continue to play him out of position, he will not renew his contract with the club.
 
When I play FIFA at my mates place, he keeps shifting players pre-game until their stats max out. Although it doesn't always translate to on pitch performance. For PES, you also need to check their inclination to attack or defend. No point playing someone as a DMF if they're going to come forward and attack all the time - unless of course you want that. Like others have posted, try looking at specific stats that you need. Short passing, tackling, jumping, whatever.

Does anyone know how this works? - lets say you drop someone into a position that is left wing forward, but you can select their role from the player menu to be an attacking midfielder instead - their physical position on the screen doesn't change but their role does. How does it affect their in-game positioning?
 
Lami said:
Cross platform worked on PES6, I think.

About players playing out of position, even though stats aren't affected much, but in ML the player's loyalty drops which in turn affects his performance in future games :)

If you continue to play him out of position, he will not renew his contract with the club.
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yea cross platform online gaming between a pc and ps2 worked flawlessly, i cant see why they cant implement it again or even if it is for xbox 360 and PC as the technology is there and has been done already via xbox live/windows gaming live thingy
 
Let's be honest here chaps, players have a specific preferred position in real-life for a reason, it's because it's natural to them, and their unique skillset is suited more to that role. Gerrard out on the left for England is a decent example, he goes missing and becomes pretty ineffective for the most part. Put him 15 yards in field and he becomes a different player. Rooney at present is another. Badly lacking form in the out and out CF role, but drop him deep like he is playing now and he is so much more effective. Same players, different positions, different results. And there a countless examples of this, it's football. Konami are only trying to replicate this with ratings change and form. You can't knock them for that, because that's how it is. It's the same as playing a right footer on the left side, you automatically lose that natural balance. Konami have applied artistic license here as a means to an end, that's all.

I loved the Hexagon and was dead against overall ratings at first, but now I can clearly understand their philosophy behind it. This if you like is the next step in player individuality, having unique stats is one thing, but creating a system that takes into consideration players natural positions is another level entirely, and I'm all for that.
 
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I prefer the hexagon, but one thing the overall rating does is to make people less likely to play the fastest players in every position.

When you have to do a little work to see which play is the quickest, people are less likely to do it.

I think you can see the difference when players are played out of position, but it effects the team as much as the individual player. Most people wil do it because of injury or because the player they are using has faster movement stats, so they look like they play equally as well as they do in their normal position, but other things are affected.

An expample of this is in my master league team, I played a CM as DM as Mello was tired. The player I chose had higher stats in many things, but was not a DM. In the game it was fairly even until about 75 minutes when i brought Mello on in his normal DM position. From that point, I had more of the game.

Some players simply make the balance of the game switch without them even kicking a ball. Its the same with having players with high attack and defence stats in your team.

One thing I would like to change is how long it takes a new player's teamwork stat to increase. When you buy a player, no matter how skillfull they are they drops to 20 ish and then takes nearly a full season for it to get to where it should. This may sound realistic, but having a player with teamwork in the twenties meens they literally cannot pass a ball 5 yards
 
Sounds good, disappointed they haven't improved the animations and will have to see if the game is more fluid or not, Decent first exposure but nothing special.
 
Some key improvements so far but I'm not impressed with animations still looking the same.
 
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