FIFA 13

FIFA games always feel the same, no matter what they add. The whole thing plays so fast and always feels contrived/scripted. The sense of freedom has reduced rather than increased in recent editions. To me, it feels like they are just making their scripts look more realistic but the gameplay doesn't improve at all.

FIFA is to football what boy bands are to music....manufactured, artificial, all style, no substance. This year, as every year, the boy band are sporting new haircuts.....it's still exactly the same talentless twats and they still don't have any good songs.
 
Something that I've always found off-putting with FIFA is the light, floaty feel to the gameplay. It lacks a feeling of weight and inertia. Hard to explain really but that's how the game always feels to me.

PES just feels a bit more solid and believable.
 
romagnoli said:
I don't think the FIFA 08 example would have done what you describe. I remember that there was some sort of sidestep, which was taken out for 09 and then brought back as 'skill dribbling' in 10, with greater versatility. Trying to remember but I think the 08 version would completely lock you into moving left or right, with no option to move forwards until you let go of the sidestep modifier? It was something like that.

There's a lot more to what they're doing with dribbling than just adding sidestep, or facing up to defenders. The scope of what they're doing is new to football games, even though bits of it have been tried before by other titles. PES has only ever allowed you to face up to defenders when you stand still, and while it has occasionally dabbled with auto-sidestep, it has never really got the context or control from that point right - hence it always disappears the following year. Compared to being able to turn and face goal while the ball is on the move sideways/backwards, or being able to move at jogging pace while shielding the ball, and making all of this part and parcel of how players move with the ball rather than just one single 'move', it's a bit unfair to equate one with the other.
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It's a long time ago now but I seem to remember being able to dribble towards and away from goal as well as sideways with that move in FIFA 08.

In theory, I agree that what they're saying sounds very good, but remember that it's EA...

To be honest, the dribbling mechanics are adequate in FIFA 12 (except for the lack of error in touches), it's the way the defending and momentum/inertia works that makes the dribbling feel shite in 12.

Even if this Complete Dribbling does work as intended, then it will be made obsolete by the screwed up player physics unless they fix that too.

The addition of "skilled dribbling" or "precision dribbling" never really blew me away when using them in-game, so I wouldn't expect this to either.
 
I found that new dribbling in FIFA 12, where you hold L1 I believe, to be pretty crappy. This "new" dribbling sounds good to me. Being contextual it's hopefully different between players, adding a little more individuality to them. However I can also see it look pretty silly if they haven't fixed the momentum/inertia.

I also like this quote from Nick Channon:
“We’ll need to make sure that the game is unpredictable, but it’s predictably unpredictable… We’re not making a random game here. You’re not going to randomly lose control of the ball. Ultimately it’s about making the game more realistic.”
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Source: http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/fif...r-close-control-and-cat-and-mouse-free-kicks/

It's a good mindset for them to have, something that I feel has not been there before. Well, if they think about the whole game like that and not only for first touches.
 
Yeah, last year's 'precision' dribbling was awful. It would take fewer touches over the same space of time as dribbling at jogging speed, and it didn't shield the ball effectively. The new stuff looks a lot more useful from what I saw in the video, and certainly the video of Khedira shielding the ball while moving, or Messi facing up to jog sideways before then sprinting again, all put into perspective how much of a difference it makes to see players not just knocking the ball in front of them the whole time.

If I was trying to describe it, it's like a proper amalgamation of the L2+R2 skill dribbling, the L2 close control, precision dribbling and the R2 shielding, all rethought, restructured and aimed at becoming a natural part of the game, as they are IRL. I am optimistic it'll make a big difference because a lot of these aspects of ball control have been attempted by both football games in the past, but not really integrated as a natural part of play. Actually putting in the tech that allows players to face different directions (as opposed to past FIFAs which only had a couple of animations for sidesteps, and thus couldn't organically fit them into general play) should hopefully allow that to finally be the case.

Cannot say whether we'll see any improvements to momentum, but the problem with players turning at high speeds has always been because the game would not use specific turning animations - they'd bastardise the normal jogging one. When the game uses proper turning animations, momentum conservation is generally much better. Hopefully the work they've done on this complete dribbling will mean more momentum is built into the animations used (or at least players facing different directions will better communicate the player's momentum at the time).
 
arthurm said:
FIFA games always feel the same, no matter what they add. The whole thing plays so fast and always feels contrived/scripted. The sense of freedom has reduced rather than increased in recent editions. To me, it feels like they are just making their scripts look more realistic but the gameplay doesn't improve at all.

FIFA is to football what boy bands are to music....manufactured, artificial, all style, no substance. This year, as every year, the boy band are sporting new haircuts.....it's still exactly the same talentless twats and they still don't have any good songs.
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Great input Thanks.:YAWN:
 
Sounds promising Romagnoli. I find the precision dribbling looks incredibly unrealistic. As if someone is walking back into their house on tippy toes at 4am so they don't wake up anyone in the house. I much prefer the close control type dribbling with L2.

They do need to balance it up with defenders that can be skinned by subtle shifts in dribbling though. I don't want to skip past a defender so easily because he's just standing flat footed. He has to be sent the wrong way or if he's a tenacious player, he should jump in and try to tackle me, or even take me out - Joey Barton style lol

If they can get the first touch error working properly, I'm hoping it can open up the gameplay as a result. At the moment you can pass diagonally all the way up the pitch. Upping the pass error on the sliders helps make it a little more natural but I'd rather not spray simple passes around errantly but instead see a player under pressure mis-control the ball and be pounced upon by an alert opponent.
 
Jamezinho said:
Something that I've always found off-putting with FIFA is the light, floaty feel to the gameplay. It lacks a feeling of weight and inertia. Hard to explain really but that's how the game always feels to me.

PES just feels a bit more solid and believable.
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I read a couple of previews, no-one mentions about the improvements about weihgt-inertia issue which is the biggest problem of Fifas.

Do you expect any improvements this year about this issue?
 
I said good-bye "FIFA" four years ago after long time of waitings, expectations and disappointments. This year my interest in the FIFA game arose again. I expect to get a good thing,particularly, in point of realistic gameplay. It will be seen soon.
 
bobfifalas said:
I read a couple of previews, no-one mentions about the improvements about weihgt-inertia issue which is the biggest problem of Fifas.

Do you expect any improvements this year about this issue?
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Not much, if anything, was mentioned in the webcast about improving player movement physics, so as of right now there's no reason to expect a big improvement in 13. Which is a shame because I agree that it's one of FIFA's biggest and most affecting shortcomings.

When the gamechangers submitted our top 10 priorities, the lack of momentum and realistic movement physics was one of the top issues. And at every chance to provide feedback, I, and others, have hammered on about how important this is. Sadly, there's been no mention of it by the devs and no indication that it's being prioritized. (That's not to say the devs disagree that it's a problem - I'm sure they recognize the issue - because after all they never mention a problem except for when they're marketing a feature that is intended to fix the problem.)

On the other hand, FIFA has improved in this area, however incrementally, over the last few installments, even if player movement physics hasn't been one of the big marketable features. Even if players still don't have the "weight" we'd all like, in 12 for example players without the ball do not break the laws of physics nearly as egregiously as they did in 11. Don't get me wrong, they still do the impossible, it's just a little less frequently.

Also, and maybe he'll expand on this, Rom mentioned in the GC forum that there's the chance that unrealistic momentum was actually necessary in the past to deal with unrealistic first touches and dribbling, and that improvements to these features in 13 now allow for realistic momentum and movement physics to be added without hurting the balance of the game.

And I think he also thinks that one of the problems is down to not using the proper turning animations, or something like that, so as FIFA continue to add animations, which they do every year but not much attention is given to them, this area of the game will continue to progress. In fact, the improvements made between 11 and 12, now that I think about it, are probably down to animations. I don't know if I'm explaining it well so maybe he'll chime in.

Ultimately, I walked away pretty disappointed from the webcast because along with improving the AI, implementing realistic player movement physics was my top priority but there was no mention of it. I'm also pretty underwhelmed at the moment with what was said about the AI improvements, with free kicks, and the impact engine. And I'm concerned that aside for adding lateral contain - which should be a nice addition - there was little said about improving the defensive side of the game and building upon the foundation set with last year's Tactical Defending system.

It should be said though that among the GCs I seemed to be the least impressed whilst those who often are more critical, like Rom and Rod, were more optimistic. So maybe I just have yet to grasp how impacting some of the new improvements will be. (Or maybe I just never get excited until I know what's in store for Career Mode!)
 
Uladar said:
I said good-bye "FIFA" four years ago after long time of waitings, expectations and disappointments. This year my interest in the FIFA game arose again. I expect to get a good thing,particularly, in point of realistic gameplay. It will be seen soon.
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If you lost interest 4 years ago, that would have been FIFA08, which was about as good as it ever got for the FIFA series. If you'd stuck with the series since then, your expectations of a "good thing" in 2012 would be non-existent.

Sorry, Uladar, but prepare to be severely disappointed.






.
 
bobfifalas said:
@mfmaxpower Thank you very much for the explanation.
I see there is not much to be excited :(
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I guess it depends on one's perspective. If whether FIFA is worth your while all comes down to realistic player motion physics, then yes FIFA is probably not your cup of tea.

If you're more flexible in your expectations, then there might be very good reasons to be excited - improvements to AI and First Touch are sure to improve the experience. And Complete Dribbling has potential.

And if you're already a fan of FIFA and think FIFA 12 was good/great/amazing, then there's plenty to be excited about - I can all but guarantee that FIFA 13 will be even better than 12.

Personally, I'm on the fence. On the one hand, I find FIFA lacking in certain areas, like player movement physics, and that's frustrating. On the other hand, I consider FIFA to be the best football game out there, by far, and so I look forward to seeing what the next iteration brings.
 
mfmaxpower said:
I guess it depends on one's perspective. If whether FIFA is worth your while all comes down to realistic player motion physics, then yes FIFA is probably not your cup of tea.

If you're more flexible in your expectations, then there might be very good reasons to be excited - improvements to AI and First Touch are sure to improve the experience. And Complete Dribbling has potential.

And if you're already a fan of FIFA and think FIFA 12 was good/great/amazing, then there's plenty to be excited about - I can all but guarantee that FIFA 13 will be even better than 12.

Personally, I'm on the fence. On the one hand, I find FIFA lacking in certain areas, like player movement physics, and that's frustrating. On the other hand, I consider FIFA to be the best football game out there, by far, and so I look forward to seeing what the next iteration brings.
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+1 ..i'm looking forward to FIFA 2013 im still playing 12 using a few PC mods..people complain about the various bugs in FIFA but the for me they innovate and try something new year after year..yes i understand there is a lot of marketing bullshit but to be fair you find that with any product...I'm yet to see anything in PES since 2009 ish that's made me say "nice feature"
 
The only thing I want FIFA to sort out this year is proper competition rules, really unrealistic transfers, correct player stats for all teams as not all of us play ever game as Barcelona or Chelsea.

Keepers need to be improved as presently they are all like Hans Segers.

And you should be able to play more than one style to win rather than just who ever is best at counter attacking wins the game, you should be able to really control and boss the game and win 90% of the time.
 
hitmanuk said:
+1 ..i'm looking forward to FIFA 2013 im still playing 12 using a few PC mods..people complain about the various bugs in FIFA but the for me they innovate and try something new year after year..yes i understand there is a lot of marketing bullshit but to be fair you find that with any product...I'm yet to see anything in PES since 2009 ish that's made me say "nice feature"
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There are at least three new features in PES 2012 that are nice:

1. The ability to fully control two players at once, although that is pretty difficult to accomplish.

2. To use the right-stick to select players while doing freekicks and cornerkicks or goalkeeper-kicks.

3. An active AI.


Besides these new features, PES has the advantage of having an inertia/momentum-model, more complex ballcontrol-aspects in first-touch-situations and a tactical side that is lightyears ahead compared to Fifa 12.

It has a lot of problems regarding gameproduction like too little animations that don't blend very well and playerswitching that doesn't work reliable or nightgames that look awful and ballphysics that are mediocre, but regarding football-aspects PES 2012 is clearly where it's at.

But that could change though, if EA wises up regarding the footballaspects and offers much better AI, an inertia/momentum-model, more individuality and tactical depth in Fifa 13, we will have to wait and see who comes on top this year.
 
They won't fix interia/momentum on this engine (it's used by NHL and only ported to FIFA. That's why you get to see players sliding on pitch motion :P).

Wait until next generation of consoles... For it to be fixed... ;)
 
info0 said:
They won't fix interia/momentum on this engine (it's used by NHL and only ported to FIFA. That's why you get to see players sliding on pitch motion :P).

Wait until next generation of consoles... For it to be fixed... ;)
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I'm not sure that I've ever heard mention that FIFA's engine is ported from NHL. I'm curious as to what your source is?
 
Let me rephrase the above. Not NHL engine per-se more like... Read below :P.

Hm, heard it some time ago, that EA uses same core gameplay engine for all Sports games they make (NHL, Basketball, FIFA, Madden, not NFS and others though).

Later on I was confirmed of it by regularcat and FIFA modders, so I started to disassemble the game code myself. ;)

But even if you have no programming knowledge, run through all trailers for FIFA/NHL games. You wouldn't be as surprised. Player Impact Engine? Sure nice idea, but in FIFA it was rather bug fest in NHL it works (Players can break through GLASS walls. That is a sight to behold!).

Ultimate team? Nice test in FIFA. Running some time in NHL... For free ;).

Separate puck physics. I want to see such thing in FIFA, ie. separate real time calculated ball physics. This is something FIFA does not yet have imo ;).

Personality stuff, again, first introduced in NHL so each player reacts as his real life counterpart.

If you had played NHL game from EA you would find so many similarities you would have headache.

I will have to find article to prove all that though. ^^
 
info0 said:
Let me rephrase the above. Not NHL engine per-se more like... Read below :P.

Hm, heard it some time ago, that EA uses same core gameplay engine for all Sports games they make (NHL, Basketball, FIFA, Madden, not NFS and others though).

Later on I was confirmed of it by regularcat and FIFA modders, so I started to disassemble the game code myself. ;)

But even if you have no programming knowledge, run through all trailers for FIFA/NHL games. You wouldn't be as surprised. Player Impact Engine? Sure nice idea, but in FIFA it was rather bug fest in NHL it works (Players can break through GLASS walls. That is a sight to behold!).

Ultimate team? Nice test in FIFA. Running some time in NHL... For free ;).

Separate puck physics. I want to see such thing in FIFA, ie. separate real time calculated ball physics. This is something FIFA does not yet have imo ;).

Personality stuff, again, first introduced in NHL so each player reacts as his real life counterpart.

If you had played NHL game from EA you would find so many similarities you would have headache.

I will have to find article to prove all that though. ^^
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EA sports share the tech with many EA studios.That's why they have alot of common things between their games esp the animation engine (they used it for Battlefield 3 ).Even though I doubt that the lack of inertia is due to using NHL movement but I guess its due to the need to make the game responsive and free from rails.
They might need a new engine to implement it properly as Xaor said
Perhaps though, EA are justified in the decision. The movement system in FIFA is probably more deeply embedded than any other, and changes here would have tremendous ramifications to the large number of systems which have been built ontop of FIFA’s movement system. It’s a huge pity, given that FIFA 07 and FIFA 08 were characterised by more realistic movement systems which were then sacrificed on the altar of responsiveness, but I’m starting to feel that we may have to wait for next generation to get the change I really desire. Fortunately, that is no longer that far away.
http://fifasoccerblog.com/blog/xaors-corner-fifa-13/
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