eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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its999maggle said:
Sports games programming is actually hard. Hence, great programmers who are interested in this are hard to find.
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NOT ENTIRELY TRUE THOUGH

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https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/gameplay-football-a-new-promising-independent-game.67592/
 
its999maggle said:
Sports games programming is actually hard. Hence, great programmers who are interested in this are hard to find.
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Programmers are paid professionals. I'm pretty sure that if Konami was to decide to expand their studios tomorrow morning, and subsequently pay the right money for it, they wouldn't have problems find talented ones willing and capable to improve the game even if it isn't the job of their life.
 
Madmac79 said:
Programmers are paid professionals. I'm pretty sure that if Konami was to decide to expand their studios tomorrow morning, and subsequently pay the right money for it, they wouldn't have problems find talented ones willing and capable to improve the game even if it isn't the job of their life.
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But Konami are skint. How could they possibly afford to fund such a thing?
 
I remember that no long ago I tweeted something like "How can you expect Konami/PES to work on all the necessary areas of the game (Gameplay, Animations, Graphics, Modes, etc) from one year to the next when they have a small group of 30-40 people working on the game. And Robbye replied to me saying "30? Where do you guys get these ideas?", implying that there's many more people than we think working on it.
I answered back saying "well, one of your developers said that it takes up to 2 months to finish each stadium, that's why not all the stadiums are available at Day 1, so that gives the impression that you don't have a lot of people because our guys from the community can do stadiums in one week and even if it's not the same, 2 months still sounds like an exaggeration, either because of lack of staff or lack of capacity, which would be even more worrying".
 
Chuny said:
I remember that no long ago I tweeted something like "How can you expect Konami/PES to work on all the necessary areas of the game (Gameplay, Animations, Graphics, Modes, etc) from one year to the next when they have a small group of 30-40 people working on the game. And Robbye replied to me saying "30? Where do you guys get these ideas?", implying that there's many more people than we think working on it.
I answered back saying "well, one of your developers said that it takes up to 2 months to finish each stadium, that's why not all the stadiums are available at Day 1, so that gives the impression that you don't have a lot of people because our guys from the community can do stadiums in one week and even if it's not the same, 2 months still sounds like an exaggeration, either because of lack of staff or lack of capacity, which would be even more worrying".
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There is another possibility here. We talked about it while ago in Pes19 thread. Its not 30, its 3. And one rang in sick. :LOL:
Thats how it looks like anyway..
 
Chuny said:
I remember that no long ago I tweeted something like "How can you expect Konami/PES to work on all the necessary areas of the game (Gameplay, Animations, Graphics, Modes, etc) from one year to the next when they have a small group of 30-40 people working on the game. And Robbye replied to me saying "30? Where do you guys get these ideas?", implying that there's many more people than we think working on it.
I answered back saying "well, one of your developers said that it takes up to 2 months to finish each stadium, that's why not all the stadiums are available at Day 1, so that gives the impression that you don't have a lot of people because our guys from the community can do stadiums in one week and even if it's not the same, 2 months still sounds like an exaggeration, either because of lack of staff or lack of capacity, which would be even more worrying".
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I don't see how there are more than 30 developers working on developing Pes. If you look at the credits you will see lots of people working on the game as community managers,database editors, marketing guys, but the actual developers are very few.
 
Ameppe said:
I don't see how there are more than 30 developers working on developing Pes. If you look at the credits you will see lots of people working on the game as community managers,database editors, marketing guys, but the actual developers are very few.
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Never looked at the credits tbh.
 
In fact if Konami wanted to invest in Pes, they could make it so much better with a lot more developers, they have the money for it. They simply don't want, like in everything about console games these days they go the cheap way, cheap remasters, really low budget games like Pes and MG Survive.

Konami is now low investment, high profits thanks to microtransactions.
 
Ameppe said:
In fact if Konami wanted to invest in Pes, they could make it so much better with a lot more developers, they have the money for it. They simply don't want, like in everything about console games these days they go the cheap way, cheap remasters, really low budget games like Pes and MG Survive.

Konami is now low investment, high profits thanks to microtransactions.
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You just described most companies.
 
What I've heard is that Konami ended up the studios. PES Productions, Kojima Productions etc and stuff. That was long ago so, they have a lot people working on games but its not the same thing as used to be.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
You just described most companies.
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Every company want profit, but most of them actually care about their console games. Konami is now the worst if you want quality console games. EA is very close. Unfortunately we are stuck with two of the worst software house making football games.

It's a bit offtopic but EA too lately is making profits just thanks to Ultimate Team and Fifa. They shrinked their console games output so much and when they release a game it's generally GAAS and actually bad. Long gone are the times when they tried to release new quality games like Dead Space and Mass Effect.

Mass Effect Andromeda was a failure, Anthem was an even greater failure.
 
I believe, they could make it being THE ultimate footy game and I ain´t talking licenses.

It´s not that PES is total garbage.
The game is great in many aspects, but lacks in many as well due to sloppy programming or not listening to the fans.
Or ONLY listening to a special type of fans.

Let´s take the new camera angle for example.
It´s great, really...but come on....how many years did it take for them to finally implement that???

This should have been in PES 2013 already or earlier.
For years, modders made it possible having more options for the cam.
How come they don´t see that the community is improving their game for years now!

Cam mods, graphic mods, gameplay...you name it.

Is it the lack of time? Lack of manpower?
Or are they just lacking vision?

Yeah, i know...it´s all about online, myclub, micro transactions yeah...
But is it really asked too much, to provide proper modes and settings for offline players?

Sliders! Bring it in already, so everyone could individually set up the gameplay for their likings.
There are tons of dt files (gameplay changers) in the edit section, cause there are so many different tastes.
 
Ameppe said:
Every company want profit, but most of them actually care about their console games. Konami is now the worst if you want quality console games. EA is very close. Unfortunately we are stuck with two of the worst software house making football games.

It's a bit offtopic but EA too lately is making profits just thanks to Ultimate Team and Fifa. They shrinked their console games output so much and when they release a game it's generally GAAS and actually bad. Long gone are the times when they tried to release new quality games like Dead Space and Mass Effect.

Mass Effect Andromeda was a failure, Anthem was an even greater failure.
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Many people want groundbreaking stuff year by year from FIFA and PES or even from NBA, NFL. Yearly titles are not that category. Lets say Konami did the same as Rockstar with GTA, by releasing a PES in every 3-4 year? I think then we cant complain about anything.

PES5 - groundbreaking game
PES2009/10 - pretty decent games next gen games, with online features
PES2012/13 - pretty decent games, with MLO
PES2016/17 - kinda okay-ish games next gen titles, but compared to the previous 3 installments, one misstep is ok, with MyClub
PES2019/20 - moving into the right direction again and perhaps 2020 will be complete version of 2019

You can think of sports games as cash cows, which they are but just because there is demand for a yearly release since ages. Especially since microtransactions a thing. I wouldnt blame the companies i would blame the customers if i wanted to so bad.
 
chiefrocka4real said:
Is it the lack of time? Lack of manpower?
Or are they just lacking vision?
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It's all of these.

They lack time because they lack manpower and their only vision is keep milking Myclub addicted guys.

gabe.paul.logan said:
Many people want groundbreaking stuff year by year from FIFA and PES or even from NBA, NFL. Yearly titles are not that category. Lets say Konami did the same as Rockstar with GTA, by releasing a PES in every 3-4 year? I think then we cant complain about anything.

PES5 - groundbreaking game
PES2009/10 - pretty decent games
PES2012/13 - pretty decent games
PES2016/17 - kinda okay-ish games, but compared to the previous 3 installments, one misstep is ok
PES2019/20 - moving into the right direction again and perhaps 2020 will be complete version of 2019

You can think of sports games as cash cows, which they are but just because there is demand for a yearly release since ages. Especially since microtransactions a thing. I wouldnt blame the companies i would blame the customers if i wanted to so bad.
Click to expand...

Problem is when i compare Pes 2015 and Pes 2019 i'm shocked about how little they improved Pes in 4 years.

Even just comparing Pes 2008 to Pes 2013 (five years between them) you can see huge improvements, in gameplay, modes, online, edit mode.

I see every game from Pes 2015 onwards as a variation of the base Pes Ps4 gameplay that has been established with Pes 2015. So, that's why i complain. Years after years of patched Pes 2015 gameplay and same modes over and over with just a small addition like Random Selection.

I can't even say there have been actual improvements from Pes 2015 to Pes 2019 and i don't think some additions to Master League or tweaks to the gameplay will be enough to call it evolution. It's essentially stale and we are buying the same product every year.
 
Ameppe said:
It's all of these.

They lack time because they lack manpower and their only vision is keep milking Myclub addicted guys.



Problem is when i compare Pes 2015 and Pes 2019 i'm shocked about how little they improved Pes in 4 years.

Even just comparing Pes 2008 to Pes 2013 (five years between them) you can see huge improvements, in gameplay, modes, online, edit mode.

I see every game from Pes 2015 onwards as a variation of the base Pes Ps4 gameplay that has been established with Pes 2015. So, that's why i complain. Years after years of patched Pes 2015 gameplay and same modes over and over with just a small addition like Random Selection.

I can't even say there have been actual improvements from Pes 2015 to Pes 2019 and i don't think some additions to Master League or tweaks to the gameplay will be enough to call it evolution. It's essentially stale and we are buying the same product every year.
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Not only has very little improved since then (content)
But also,so much has disappeared from Pes content vise.
Copa America/libertadores ,fully licenced 1st and 2nd division (La liga) D2s.
Some other contents that has been approved (some credit here) is stadiums,we've gone from 16/17 stadiums to 30+.
Gameplay not that much (though 19s movement is sweet AI horrible and unplayable)
 
Ameppe said:
It's all of these.

They lack time because they lack manpower and their only vision is keep milking Myclub addicted guys.



Problem is when i compare Pes 2015 and Pes 2019 i'm shocked about how little they improved Pes in 4 years.

Even just comparing Pes 2008 to Pes 2013 (five years between them) you can see huge improvements, in gameplay, modes, online, edit mode.

I see every game from Pes 2015 onwards as a variation of the base Pes Ps4 gameplay that has been established with Pes 2015. So, that's why i complain. Years after years of patched Pes 2015 gameplay and same modes over and over with just a small addition like Random Selection.

I can't even say there have been actual improvements from Pes 2015 to Pes 2019 and i don't think some additions to Master League or tweaks to the gameplay will be enough to call it evolution. It's essentially stale and we are buying the same product every year.
Click to expand...

You know the answer for that :D Vote with your money. The customers have the power to change things if they dont like something. But still its enough even with all the complaints, basically the numbers show that the majority of the people are happy with the products put out year by year.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
You know the answer for that :D Vote with your money. The customers have the power to change things if they dont like something. But still its enough even with all the complaints, basically the numbers show that the majority of the people are happy with the products put out year by year.
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I already voted with my wallet (didn't buy Pes 2019, after the huge disappointment that was Pes 2018) but i don't like when people say we expect too much, that's wrong. Actually people that keep buying Pes have been even too patient looking at what little actually improved in four years.
 
its999maggle said:
Sports games programming is actually hard. Hence, great programmers who are interested in this are hard to find.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
We only need to look at Konami's noisy neighbours to see how hard it is - EA took their best programmers off of Anthem to go work on the new Fifa/

chiefrocka4real said:
I believe, they could make it being THE ultimate footy game and I ain´t talking licenses.

It´s not that PES is total garbage.
The game is great in many aspects, but lacks in many as well due to sloppy programming or not listening to the fans.
Or ONLY listening to a special type of fans.

Let´s take the new camera angle for example.
It´s great, really...but come on....how many years did it take for them to finally implement that???

This should have been in PES 2013 already or earlier.
For years, modders made it possible having more options for the cam.
How come they don´t see that the community is improving their game for years now!

Cam mods, graphic mods, gameplay...you name it.

Is it the lack of time? Lack of manpower?
Or are they just lacking vision?

Yeah, i know...it´s all about online, myclub, micro transactions yeah...
But is it really asked too much, to provide proper modes and settings for offline players?

Sliders! Bring it in already, so everyone could individually set up the gameplay for their likings.
There are tons of dt files (gameplay changers) in the edit section, cause there are so many different tastes.
Click to expand...
From a gameplay perspective MyClub is the worst thing that could have happened to PES. Of course we know why it happened - They saw the money machine Fifa's UT was and they wanted a piece of the pie. From a business perspective, it was the best thing Konami has done in years with PES.

But if they'd shown some balls it could have been so much more. I know it would have never happened, but I'd have loved for Konami to scrap licences and partnered clubs altogether, and instead be PROUD to be an unofficial football game again. If they'd made gameplay and editing their absolute focus of the series then many more players would insist on owning both PES & Fifa because they'd offer vastly different experiences from one another. Just focus on the things Fifa are shit at - editing, single player, and co-op. I've never watched a PES League match in my life, but if PES had a 5-a-side mode consisting of custom teams with custom kits I'd probably check it out! It's not like only one first-person shooter can exist on the market at any one time is it? If they offer something different then both can easily be successful. Instead, because PES & Fifa are so similar in what they're trying to achieve players choose one or the other out of nothing more than personal taste, and PES will always lose that battle as they can't compete with Fifa's bells, whistles, and financial muscle.

MyClub will now forever be the main focus. It's mad when you think about it; imagine someone who's spent £2000 on MyClub this year, that one person is worth more to Konami than over 30 of us. Go on Reddit and there are people proving they've spent £6k on it EVERY YEAR! They're worth more than 100 offline players. Unless governments start passing laws against microtransactions in games Konami will never, ever want to let go of this new revenue.
 
Talking about Konami... They used to be soooo good back in the days... Think of not only PES, but also MGS, and Silent Hill. Too bad that these times they can´t deliver proper solid single player products.
 
Ameppe said:
I already voted with my wallet (didn't buy Pes 2019, after the huge disappointment that was Pes 2018) but i don't like when people say we expect too much, that's wrong. Actually people that keep buying Pes have been even too patient looking at what little actually improved in four years.
Click to expand...

People have different standards. Thats how the world is spinning.
As for the PES2015 and PES2019 comparison. Then these two games look the awulf lot the same, content wise as well.


However we both know its not the case, and neither for 2015 and 2019. In 2019 graphics, keepers, dribbling, phyisicality, servers, NETS! are lightyears ahead of 2015.

 
I don't know if you guys heard this sort of "Podcast" (it's not really a podcast, because they show little clips and they analyze them), but I liked what DaMidniteKid said about the game, it's not all flowers and candies but many of the things he said got me a little more hyped up than I was:

 
Chuny said:
I don't know if you guys heard this sort of "Podcast" (it's not really a podcast, because they show little clips and they analyze them), but I liked what DaMidniteKid said about the game, it's not all flowers and candies but many of the things he said got me a little more hyped up than I was:

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Listened to half hour of this so far. I'm enjoying it. Thanks for sharing.
They both seem to have a really nice balance of optimism and realistic expectations.

This guy said his English is rusty but it's better than mine!! :DD
 
They worked on AI, they worked on physics, first touches..
They have option to play longer matches against AI in the demo, so they are not afraid to show it.

I suppose - the question is not whether this game will be good, much better than 19..
Question is - will they keep it this way or will they change everything upon release, like they did last year.

For that reason only id be reluctant to place pre order this year, or any year coming. I'll wait till i get my first impressions from here.
 
Emroth said:
They worked on AI, they worked on physics, first touches..
They have option to play longer matches against AI in the demo, so they are not afraid to show it.

I suppose - the question is not whether this game will be good, much better than 19..
Question is - will they keep it this way or will they change everything upon release, like they did last year.

For that reason only id be reluctant to place pre order this year, or any year coming. I'll wait till i get my first impressions from here.
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Well in that "Podcast" I posted above, DMK said that if you're expecting a completely new game, then obviously PES 2020 won't be your thing, because it's clearly an updated, improved, version of 2019. But he said that they added so many things to the gameplay that were very necessary that he can't play 2019 now after playing so many hours (more than 20, he claims) of PES 2020 at E3.

I also like what he said about the fact that you can't pass, pass, pass without the need to take the first touch, control the ball, and then pass the ball again, otherwise the pass will not be as accurate. If they keep it that way for release, it's going to be a great addition. Heavy first touch, misplaced passes, etc... are very necessary this year for both AI and human.
 
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