eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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OBH said:
The best bit of MyClub is the least spoken of part - that bronze / white ball players can be levelled up massively.

I tried to get a 70 rated Ryan Sessegnon to max level on 2018. Yet after tons of games and using every single trainer I ever got on him I was still miles off. Was cool using him in the 80s though.

Just a tad bit too much effort for a single player. Shame really as this would add some really interesting diversity to players teams if it was focused on more. But playing the game in this manner doesn’t lead you to their virtual slot machine so it serves Konami no purpose.
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Alx1234's guide to MyChump for newcomers :

- Read the forums, pesDB and scout for some of the best players on MyChump
- Spin weekly agents and clear weekly comps
- Manage your squad being mindful that you have to use your GP to lose players you've spent levelling up to make space for those Gold/Black Balls from the agent
- Get your beloved white balls you hung on to up to a high level
- Hurrah - you made it - you have a full squad of elites and hidden gems - No more need to play weekly challenges for GP!
- go online - oh dear - no matchmaking? don't worry - the new game is coming out soon

what's that? you say you want to play online with your hard-earned squad?

(chuckle chuckle) there's no point - servers go off in another years time - you might as well restart a new MyChump.
 
rockstrongo said:
Id wish it was 10 year old kids,bet it's grumpy 50 year olds who's on some sort of work programme since they've lost their jobs in the building sector
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Its amazing, isn't it ? As long as i can remember, since the 2000s, menus in PES have always been the center of criticism among reviewers, and quite rightly so. The menus were very, ''Japanese'' alongside the music, yet, what's fascinating is that, while the sentiment/issues regarding the menu remains the same, they have vastly regressed backwards in terms of gameplay and innovation.
 
Chilleverest said:
Its amazing, isn't it ? As long as i can remember, since 2000s, menus in PES have always been center of criticism among reviewers, and quite rightly so. The menus were very, ''Japanese'' alongside the music, yet, what's fascinating is that, while the sentiment/issues regarding the menu remains the same, they have vastly regressed in terms of gameplay and innovation.
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fully agree, also constant 'checking internet connection' popus while going through menus are annoying and it makes whole menu archaic af
 
Chilleverest said:
Its amazing, isn't it ? As long as i can remember, since the 2000s, menus in PES have always been the center of criticism among reviewers, and quite rightly so. The menus were very, ''Japanese'' alongside the music, yet, what's fascinating is that, while the sentiment/issues regarding the menu remains the same, they have vastly regressed backwards in terms of gameplay and innovation.
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They've done cartwheels backwards in pretty much everything.
I DL Pes 5 the other day (legally,no need to go mental dear mods) and,it's still better than most modern ones.
I think 15 menus (not in ML) and 16's is okay.
But 18 and 19 are horrible pal
 
Chris Davies said:
I feel the same way and I believe it's because guys like us aren't catered to now. I really don't think it's just "we're old and we've outgrown this" - I think it's that realism, simulation, offline-focus, lots-to-tinker-with and maybe most importantly that feeling of building a poor team into a great one through bad results and hard work, grinding out wins against a nightmare (but fair) AI... has gone*.

Case in point, start up myClub / FUT and you have a top-tier, gold-standard team on day one, if you pre-ordered the game. Superstar after superstar. No hard work necessary™.

Even when FUT was born, you were given a bronze team and everyone else had a bronze team, and you really had to grind to progress. Nobody wants that now.

I think if the day came where a big studio made a career-focused football game, or at least a game with realism as the focus, we'd be back to our childhoods, loving it. But until that happens, I think we're probably fucked. We're not the market.

*Which may well be because as games have become more advanced, the AI just can't cope with the field of variables, meaning much less individuality and much more "every game's the same" - in which case... We need to go back, damnit.
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We are old Chris lol

I liked your last line. Adam Bhatti said something similar on a podcast a few years back. PS2 pes had a great engine that made everything "feel organic" even though it was predetermined and assisted because every situation had limited variables the A.I. had to be programmed for. Then as the new platforms came about and konami wanted to compete with EA on this 360 dribbling stuff and making the user have more options and freedom to play anywhere on the pitch--the A.I. just can't cope with the variables. Plus I also feel like konami do not focus any attention off the ball.

Every year the new features seem to be "on the ball" features. We don't need to have different on the ball features right now we need the off-ball stuff focused on.
 
Now that you mention it, I think I've never seen any off-the-ball physical battles or fouls ever commited in a football game. You know, like when a player starts making a run into space and a player of the rival team tries to stop his run by pulling his shirt, or shouldering him to push him off track or something. That'd be nice
 
B-Man said:
We are old Chris lol

I liked your last line. Adam Bhatti said something similar on a podcast a few years back. PS2 pes had a great engine that made everything "feel organic" even though it was predetermined and assisted because every situation had limited variables the A.I. had to be programmed for. Then as the new platforms came about and konami wanted to compete with EA on this 360 dribbling stuff and making the user have more options and freedom to play anywhere on the pitch--the A.I. just can't cope with the variables. Plus I also feel like konami do not focus any attention off the ball.

Every year the new features seem to be "on the ball" features. We don't need to have different on the ball features right now we need the off-ball stuff focused on.
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Or, shock horror....the defensive side of the game! Defending in PES still consists of holding two buttons, when compared to FIFA it feels archaic, it hasn't evolved or frankly even changed since the PS2 days, aside from that if anything it has probably devolved because at least in the old days there was real depth to it and you could easily be punished and give away fouls if being over-aggressive and going in with poor timing. Any developers that were serious about football would be improving the offensive and defensive mechanics in tandem to ensure they stay in equilibrium.
 
Chuny said:
Now that you mention it, I think I've never seen any off-the-ball physical battles or fouls ever commited in a football game. You know, like when a player starts making a run into space and a player of the rival team tries to stop his run by pulling his shirt, or shouldering him to push him off track or something. That'd be nice
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It does happen in older pes, for eg, pes 5. When you let your nil stamina player on the pitch stay and say, there is fresh Adriano making a run alongside said defender. They go into a very brief tussle animation (using hands to get past, I’m sure you guys remember that animation), the nil stamina defender clips and rolls on the floor (another TM pes animation on ps2). It’s almost never given a foul though, but it’s an off the ball battle nonetheless. It’s akin to real life situation when a tired player easily goes to the ground after a hefty duel. Another subtle genius by seabass that adds dynamic and stats to the game.

Edit: I’m sure Retro gents can attest to this.
 
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Chuny said:
Now that you mention it, I think I've never seen any off-the-ball physical battles or fouls ever commited in a football game. You know, like when a player starts making a run into space and a player of the rival team tries to stop his run by pulling his shirt, or shouldering him to push him off track or something. That'd be nice
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That happens to me in Fifa 16 all the time Chuny
 
PESBUL said:
Oh... menus.. are a painful topic. Since PS4/Xboner/FOX era we have awful menus. I remember almost all menus in PS2-PS3 era was .. so good... They were like .. artworks...fast, responsible, original and beautiful! Looks like they lost the guys who was creating all this great menu and now some 10 years old kid makes PES menus and UI.
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Agreed. For multiple reasons they could of just sticked with the old menu's. Not only are the old skool retro menus very fashionable at this moment in time, but it would also harness their identity as a game that focuses on the gameplay - isnt that what they stand for? By not caring about flashy menu's you can put your resources elsewhere and at the same time position yourselve in relation to EA.

As long as it radiates a passion for football and winks to the old arcade menu's of the past you can get away with it as a delibarete choice to set the game apart. I would go on to say this the current half-arsed attempt to compete with EA in this department just shows their identity crises. If only they would understand you will never beat EA when it comes to this kind of stuf, so every attempt in that direction will make them look all the more foolish and desperate. Especially considering the poor execution and how they are making all this fuzz about it.

Personally, the only wish i have for the menus is that they would play my saved replays in the background so i can relive those special moments much more then i do when tucked away behind a button somewhere. Not touching the controls would have the menu fade away and the replays become a screensaver.

For the rest just keep the menu simple and minimal with a lot of winks to the old days. Just take a hard look at not only the previous versions but also Sensible Soccer, Kick off, etc and note down everything that has stand the test of time. Touch it up just a tiny bit with modern design principles in mind and you are done. How hard can it be?

Just makes me want to storm their board room where these things are decided and yell at them "Hey pricks! Here's an old time fan to tell you to get a ***** grip and realize you have **** gold in you hands! This game has the sympathy vote, its the all-time underdog, its **** cult! Dont try and be something you are not but cherish what you are and build on that! Idiots!! Ok, i am leaving now. Sorry for my language. bye"
 
majuh said:
I disagree, the gameplay in PES 2015 and in PES 2019 is incredibly similar.
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Really???
Couldn´t disagree more on that one.

I totally disliked PES 2015.
That laserguided-bowling-ball-on-ice-that-never-bounces-passing was so off which made me skip that release and brought over to FIFA for two years as I didn´t find PES 2016 any better.
Not to mention those repetitive CPU low shot goals into the corner.

I was shocked how they shat on the base of PES 2014.

PES 2019 made me feel like they´re approaching that base a little more again.

But each to their own :) .
 
Agreed. I didn’t like 2015 at all.

Someone earlier mentioned FIFA’s defending? I’d cry if they did that in PES. I absolutely hate it. If you mistime a tackle some of the animations the players do are ridiculous! Some stupid massive lunge for no reason whatsoever, and as well as this; making an AI defender put pressure on is pathetic too. And while I agree that defending should be more than ‘hold a button’ I think PES should just innovate what they have. Give players more of a reason to have to double tap that pressure button and put a foot in.

Oh I don’t envy EA or Konami. Everyone wants something different from a football game.
 
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Chilleverest said:
Its amazing, isn't it ? As long as i can remember, since the 2000s, menus in PES have always been the center of criticism among reviewers, and quite rightly so. The menus were very, ''Japanese'' alongside the music, yet, what's fascinating is that, while the sentiment/issues regarding the menu remains the same, they have vastly regressed backwards in terms of gameplay and innovation.
Click to expand...

Pes 5 main menu was amazing not because it was particularly good looking but becuase there were some cool player and music transitions. This music was also pure joy.

 
Since the peak of the Xbox 360 era, I’ve always thought that the consoles and konamis technical capabilities of on the ball stuff (dribbling, shooting, passing, etc.) outweighs the capabilities of the off the ball stuff (AI marking, att/def transition, off the ball runs etc.)

If that makes sense?

Like the technical aspects are advanced enough to make realistic ball physics, the ball to go anywhere on the pitch, 360 dribbling but the advancement of the AI is lagging behind so the AI isn’t capable of positioning itself properly to the ball being anywhere on the pitch, it’s not capable of marking a player that can run anywhere on the pitch.

Back in the PES 6 days everything on and off the ball was pre determined/ linked
 
koningfrikandel said:
Sounds good BUT let's not forget the product will get worse over time.
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You presume that, but you don't know it.
I know that it happened like that in the past, but probability dictates that there is 50% chance that this will not be the case this year.

I wish that Konami would not listen to the fans at all. The game would be better. The game would have been better by now. The problem is that they listen too much to what is said in silly threads like this one...let's be honest, what do we know (certainly including myself). People influence each other in threads like this. Few people have to courage to go against the current and then one has the impression that there is a consensus. There is no consensus.
 
@Stan
silly
/ˈsɪli/
adjective
  1. 1.
    having or showing a lack of common sense or judgement; absurd and foolish.
    "another of his silly jokes"
    Synonyme: foolish, stupid, unintelligent, idiotic, brainless, mindless, witless, imbecilic, imbecile, doltish;
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https://www.google.com/search?q=silly+meaning&oq=silly+meaning

hm... i can't find that here! we might have a light argument from time to time... but silly really doesn't fit, imo!

we are not the problem! :COOL:
we are elite! ;)
 
Chris Davies said:
I feel the same way and I believe it's because guys like us aren't catered to now. I really don't think it's just "we're old and we've outgrown this" - I think it's that realism, simulation, offline-focus, lots-to-tinker-with and maybe most importantly that feeling of building a poor team into a great one through bad results and hard work, grinding out wins against a nightmare (but fair) AI... has gone*.

Case in point, start up myClub / FUT and you have a top-tier, gold-standard team on day one, if you pre-ordered the game. Superstar after superstar. No hard work necessary™.

Even when FUT was born, you were given a bronze team and everyone else had a bronze team, and you really had to grind to progress. Nobody wants that now.

I think if the day came where a big studio made a career-focused football game, or at least a game with realism as the focus, we'd be back to our childhoods, loving it. But until that happens, I think we're probably fucked. We're not the market.

*Which may well be because as games have become more advanced, the AI just can't cope with the field of variables, meaning much less individuality and much more "every game's the same" - in which case... We need to go back, damnit.
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I completely agree.

We now live in a “I-want-it-now” culture.

For example, look at the replies to transfer related tweets from Liverpool and Man Utd fans on twitter.

“Why haven’t we signed anyone yet?”

“We should be in for Messi, who’s this guy?” (Referring to Man Utd being linked with an Ajax youth academy product.)

I don’t like the modern day culture, football isn’t fun like it was back in the day. Money has ruined the beautiful game and it’s ruined football gaming.
 
Mikhail said:
I don’t like the modern day culture, football isn’t fun like it was back in the day. Money has ruined the beautiful game and it’s ruined football gaming.
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You sure about that? Don't know how far in the past you are referring but I started following football more than 20 years ago and I remember fans of big clubs always being this demanding. The only difference is just that back in the days they hadn't a platform to express it like it happens today with the socials.
 
Mikhail said:
I completely agree.

We now live in a “I-want-it-now” culture.

For example, look at the replies to transfer related tweets from Liverpool and Man Utd fans on twitter.

“Why haven’t we signed anyone yet?”

“We should be in for Messi, who’s this guy?” (Referring to Man Utd being linked with an Ajax youth academy product.)

I don’t like the modern day culture, football isn’t fun like it was back in the day. Money has ruined the beautiful game and it’s ruined football gaming.
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Greetings from Warsaw
 
Chris Davies said:
I feel the same way and I believe it's because guys like us aren't catered to now. I really don't think it's just "we're old and we've outgrown this" - I think it's that realism, simulation, offline-focus, lots-to-tinker-with and maybe most importantly that feeling of building a poor team into a great one through bad results and hard work, grinding out wins against a nightmare (but fair) AI... has gone*.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I get that argument a lot.
"You´re old now...you have changed, you feel different, you can´t be pleased no more".
But I don´t buy that.

Maybe to some extent, but not to 100 %.
Because when you list all those flaws, you see most of them could be done better or reworked.
- D2 removed
- no better customizable cam for years
- repetitive AI attacks
- too less fouls by the CPU
- almost no penalties caused by the CPU
etc etc.
That´s not us...it´s them.
Yeah, I´ve grown old...that´s why I can´t play no old PES release no more.
It´s too robotic.
I like the fluid animation of the player models, ball physics and all, it´s just a few things more that aren´t right and need to be worked on.

A little off topic:
I´m a big Star Wars fan. I grew up with Episode 4, 5 and 6. Even watched the last two in the theatres as a kid.
Had many toys and stuff.
When they brought out 1 - 3, I didn´t really dig them. It didn´t suit to Star Wars to me...I didn´t feel it.
People who loved it been like: "well yeah, cause you´re old now...they´re good!".
Then 7 came out...was okay-ish at first, but actually it wasn´t. It´s been shit.
And so was episode 8. They flushed this series down the toilet, imho.
People still said: "Hey, it´s good! It´s just you! You became old now and you can´t have that Star Wars feeling back again!"

And then came Rogue One! I loved it! It fit to the franchise, I had the Star Wars feeling! No bullshit story, no bullshit gimmicks! And damn....goosebump moment when Darth Vader was standing in the dark in the space ship at the end of the movie. You only hear him breathing...the light saber lightens....and he slaughters the rebels.
Yeah, it´s me, I grew old...my ass! They proved how to do it right!
So I don´t buy that argument....at least not fully :) .
 
I found some enjoyment in PES 2019, mostly in the modes with the least AI involvement (mostly online co-op and sometimes team play), but in the end it became so repetitive, ruined by 99% of matches being against MyClub superteams.

Can't be bothered to go trawling through all the news and videos, but this is just going to be more of the same shite isn't it? I'm guessing they've said fuck all about any modes other than MyClub.

Completely sick of this formula/direction that modern football games are taking.
 
chiefrocka4real said:
Yeah, I get that argument a lot.
"You´re old now...you have changed, you feel different, you can´t be pleased no more".
But I don´t buy that.

Maybe to some extent, but not to 100 %.
Because when you list all those flaws, you see most of them could be done better or reworked.
- D2 removed
- no better customizable cam for years
- repetitive AI attacks
- too less fouls by the CPU
- almost no penalties caused by the CPU
etc etc.
That´s not us...it´s them.
Yeah, I´ve grown old...that´s why I can´t play no old PES release no more.
It´s too robotic.
I like the fluid animation of the player models, ball physics and all, it´s just a few things more that aren´t right and need to be worked on.

A little off topic:
I´m a big Star Wars fan. I grew up with Episode 4, 5 and 6. Even watched the last two in the theatres as a kid.
Had many toys and stuff.
When they brought out 1 - 3, I didn´t really dig them. It didn´t suit to Star Wars to me...I didn´t feel it.
People who loved it been like: "well yeah, cause you´re old now...they´re good!".
Then 7 came out...was okay-ish at first, but actually it wasn´t. It´s been shit.
And so was episode 8. They flushed this series down the toilet, imho.
People still said: "Hey, it´s good! It´s just you! You became old now and you can´t have that Star Wars feeling back again!"

And then came Rogue One! I loved it! It fit to the franchise, I had the Star Wars feeling! No bullshit story, no bullshit gimmicks! And damn....goosebump moment when Darth Vader was standing in the dark in the space ship at the end of the movie. You only hear him breathing...the light saber lightens....and he slaughters the rebels.
Yeah, it´s me, I grew old...my ass! They proved how to do it right!
So I don´t buy that argument....at least not fully :) .
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And then "Solo" came out and we went back to Disney stupid-orbit!!
Sorry for off-topic. @chiefrocka4real we have discussion here, join the forces and express your SW vision whenever you like :)
 
Stan said:
You presume that, but you don't know it.
I know that it happened like that in the past, but probability dictates that there is 50% chance that this will not be the case this year.

I wish that Konami would not listen to the fans at all. The game would be better. The game would have been better by now. The problem is that they listen too much to what is said in silly threads like this one...let's be honest, what do we know (certainly including myself). People influence each other in threads like this. Few people have to courage to go against the current and then one has the impression that there is a consensus. There is no consensus.
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You are right in that I have no way of knowing for certain. I am thisonly basing on the experience I and many others had for the past three years ( at least ). Genuinely curious, not being snarky; why do you think there is a 50 procent chance of this not happening this year?
 
rojofa said:
I found some enjoyment in PES 2019, mostly in the modes with the least AI involvement (mostly online co-op and sometimes team play), but in the end it became so repetitive, ruined by 99% of matches being against MyClub superteams.

Can't be bothered to go trawling through all the news and videos, but this is just going to be more of the same shite isn't it? I'm guessing they've said fuck all about any modes other than MyClub.

Completely sick of this formula/direction that modern football games are taking.
Click to expand...

Actually not....they barely mentioned anything about online modes so far. It's all been about gameplay and master league. No word has been said about myClub.
 
chiefrocka4real said:
Yeah, I get that argument a lot.
"You´re old now...you have changed, you feel different, you can´t be pleased no more".
But I don´t buy that.

Maybe to some extent, but not to 100 %.
Because when you list all those flaws, you see most of them could be done better or reworked.
- D2 removed
- no better customizable cam for years
- repetitive AI attacks
- too less fouls by the CPU
- almost no penalties caused by the CPU
etc etc.
That´s not us...it´s them.
Yeah, I´ve grown old...that´s why I can´t play no old PES release no more.
It´s too robotic.
I like the fluid animation of the player models, ball physics and all, it´s just a few things more that aren´t right and need to be worked on.

A little off topic:
I´m a big Star Wars fan. I grew up with Episode 4, 5 and 6. Even watched the last two in the theatres as a kid.
Had many toys and stuff.
When they brought out 1 - 3, I didn´t really dig them. It didn´t suit to Star Wars to me...I didn´t feel it.
People who loved it been like: "well yeah, cause you´re old now...they´re good!".
Then 7 came out...was okay-ish at first, but actually it wasn´t. It´s been shit.
And so was episode 8. They flushed this series down the toilet, imho.
People still said: "Hey, it´s good! It´s just you! You became old now and you can´t have that Star Wars feeling back again!"

And then came Rogue One! I loved it! It fit to the franchise, I had the Star Wars feeling! No bullshit story, no bullshit gimmicks! And damn....goosebump moment when Darth Vader was standing in the dark in the space ship at the end of the movie. You only hear him breathing...the light saber lightens....and he slaughters the rebels.
Yeah, it´s me, I grew old...my ass! They proved how to do it right!
So I don´t buy that argument....at least not fully :) .
Click to expand...
That is actually brilliant comparison!
This post should be sent to Konami...

See its not the problem that they listened to the fans. Its a problem that they listened to wrong ones.

Initially I was on the fence, when I read @Stan post. He is not totally wrong. Konami was trying to take a different path with 14. And coz they listened to fans it all got fucked. Instead of just building up on this and create something fresh, they tried to please everyone - dumbing down this, making that easier, etc.
Maybe, if they followed their vision, we would have a little football gem now, with its own identity.

But they threw everything into one kettle and now we have a dish that no one knows what the fuck is it. A soup? A stew? We got a weird mix and no one even knows should we use a spoon, or a fork there...

But the rest is not fans fault. The minute they sniffed online and money they can make on that, they lost the plot. Removed all the little things that gave any sort of immersion and ignored the rest, focused fully on minimum effort, maximum profit.
What they did to Master League is unforgivable.
And Im not even talking about D2's or AI - these were just icing on a Cake of Madness... But the fact that I cant even check previous season results, or overal goals for a players... everything that was adding this little feeling of satisfaction, when you played many seasons - its all gone.

They are still trying to find their identity. The sooner they realise, that trying to be something they arent, isnt gonna work - the better.

Its not all lost yet. They just need someone smart, with vision and (yes) nostalgia towards true Pes and its identity, who will put it back onto the right track.

Im a firm believer, that all those who like ping pong fiesta online, and having everything handed to them on a plate, would love Pes if it just was.... Pes.
All those kids just dont know the feeling of satisfaction and achievement, when something is bit harder to do and you eventually manage to do it.
 
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re listening to the fans:

From the PES 5 Guide... from no less than Seabass himself regarding corners. "In general, the fact that defenders rarely move upfield is because of feedback. Many users wanted defenders to stay back because there were some deadly counter-attacks after corner kicks. That's why the team deliberately decided to prevent the defenders moving up front for corners."

A prime example!
 
Mikhail said:
I completely agree.

We now live in a “I-want-it-now” culture.
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I dont agree. Perhaps I misunderstanded you. We here since ever, asking for new things. Well, I dont want nothing anymore. If the next PES is good, fine. If its not, I will play another genre. F1 this year seems very promising.
 
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