eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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So awful to watch so far, And with most of the stuff they tried to patch in the last two years (and failed/lied about it of course) still broken, It seems that Konami have made up their mind about what they want from the franchise.

Fast players not able to use their speed

Nothing left for us real football lovers who want a simulation based experience despite all the patches and community work.
 
thombhoy said:
Alright mate, how's it going ? Are you looking forward to this years Demo ?
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Hi mate, good thanks, hope all's good with yerself? Looking forward to the demo as usual but I'll just say I'm not totally blown away yet. Missed a bit of the old forum banter...
 
Maybe one day Konami will realize that backheels hit at bullet speed with perfect accuracy are phenomenally difficult to pull off constantly and reduce the backheel stat to something less than 99.99999999999% accuracy. :RANT::LOL:
 
Lons said:
My experiance tell me dont judge a game in particular Pes from video. Pes always look bad on videos. When you play it you feel different game what you saw it.
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There have been some years I've let myself get a little bit optimistic from watching videos, GIFs of new animations etc. only to realise within a few minutes of playing that yet again it's a giant steaming turd. My attitude nowadays is to assume the absolute worst and hope to be pleasantly surprised. But when you can see the same old flaws rearing their ugly heads then you are just fooling yourself by remaining optimistic.

I'll say I think people do rightly look to the AI as being critical, because for offline players at least it's much easier to overlook even pretty glaring flaws when you have a challenging and varied AI to play against, and I can't rule out the possibility that if they sorted the AI it could be enjoyable again. However I think it's unlikely that the AI will have made that kind of a jump, I mean people are over the moon just because the AI doesn't run to the corner flag when through on goal now or shoot in the same spot every time, the expectations have to be higher than that surely.
 
SJ321 said:
It could be my settings but I don't see how it's possible, I play on console so the modding with option files is limited and doesn't involve changing stadiums. As far as I'm aware all other teams with their proper stadiums in game have the option to change stadium greyed out (including Lazio who share the ground), yet Roma don't. You are right that it could have been that way since the start of the game but I'd not noticed if it was.
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Apparently, it was like that already in PES 2018: https://www.pesteam.it/forum/threads/stadio-nazionale-e-stadio-olimpico-di-roma.24517/

I'd guess that they licensed the Stadio Olimpico only for Lazio so they can't officially use it for Roma.
 
Pesmunki said:
Hi mate, good thanks, hope all's good with yerself? Looking forward to the demo as usual but I'll just say I'm not totally blown away yet. Missed a bit of the old forum banter...
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Yeah, i'm good mate, i'm relaxing outside at the fire pit enjoying a couple of beers with the missus as we speak, but like you I'm not blown away yet, i wasn't expecting anything amazing this year anyway (that will come with new consoles & new engines), one thing i noticed from E3 code was there was a bit better physicality & a nice pace to the game, i'm just hoping Konami don't nerf this by the time we receive the retail game, they really need to sort out the foul situation in games and stop making it too noob friendly , hopefully they can strike a decent balance between arcade and sim. Here's hoping anyway :))
 
Chris Davies said:

Weedens' first 2020 video.

Honestly, I think the gameplay looks terrible, especially in slow-mo. Robotic, dull... More of the same (2019) - but if you loved 2019, it's a more refined version of that, so you'll be having a blast. Personally, I think I'm out now - we shouldn't be settling for this as the best recreation of football given the technology and the talent out there. In my opinion.
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Shiat dude! What a f.... is that on 2:05!?:LOL:
 
Danny Henry said:
Shiat dude! What f.... is that on 2:05!?:LOL:
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I think it looks so ugly because of the sped up animations. The "playtesters" wanted faster/more explosive skill moves. :SICK:

Makes you wonder if there is much individuality in the system, since I didn't see much difference between Beckham and Iniesta to be honest.

By the way I had to laugh when watching that video earlier by "Manny" I think his name was, who thinks a big strength of PES compared to FIFA is its shooting variety, and tells people not to worry about it being so slow because they can just increase the game speed to +2 "for a better experience". Where do they find these people? :LOL:
 

Nice video to enjoy ball physics...the best from far.

Ball spin and bounces are incredible. Huge amount of glue removed compared to 2019, which creates a lot of randomness and unpredictable situations. Those laser guided bounces to players feets seems that have disapeared.
 
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TheGoodOldDays said:
I think it looks so ugly because of the sped up animations. The "playtesters" wanted faster/more explosive skill moves. :SICK:

Makes you wonder if there is much individuality in the system, since I didn't see much difference between Beckham and Iniesta to be honest.

By the way I had to laugh when watching that video earlier by "Manny" I think his name was, who thinks a big strength of PES compared to FIFA is its shooting variety, and tells people not to worry about it being so slow because they can just increase the game speed to +2 "for a better experience". Where do they find these people? :LOL:
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Different tastes. Not everyone is an hardcore Pes player. In fact, most of people playing Pes are not hardcore gamers but casual gamers, that's how it has always been, there's nothing inherently bad about that.

That's why not everyone plays Pes at top difficulty, that's why there are assistance settings. I really don't understand mocking people that like to play Pes in a different way.

Also, do you remember how ridiculously fast were Ps2 Pes games? Even Pes 5, the slowest Ps2 Pes, that i am replaying lately, is like a Pes 2019 on +3 and yet everyone loved it and called it a simulation game.

I mean, i don't care if people play it at +2, i'm happy that they have that option and it doesn't make their opinion less valuable than mine because they play it at +2. I just ask Konami to make Pes a balanced game at +2 or 0 speed, possibly without breaking anything or making it as boring as Pes 2019 was.

I think we all can agree that the greatest issue in Pes 2019 was CPU AI, right? Let's start from that and hope that they fixed it, so that we can push them to fix the next big issue. IF, it's a big if, they manage to go back to a reasonable AI that will already be a huge step forward in playability.
 
As someone who has only bought one of about the last eight versions (played all the demos) I have to admit there seems quite a bit to like with this one and it does at last seem like they are at least heading back in the right direction. That said there were what - 2 fouls in the match? The keeping for the United goal was awful, he was easily going to get there first then stopped and then came again, a lower league keeper maybe in two minds, but this was supposed to be Khan. Also I haven't watch all the videos posted but I've yet to see a defender step in to intercept on a ball played in towards the strikers no matter how slowly it's coming towards them.
 
Ameppe said:
Different tastes. Not everyone is an hardcore Pes player. In fact, most of people playing Pes are not hardcore gamers but casual gamers, that's how it has always been, there's nothing inherently bad about that.

That's why not everyone plays Pes at top difficulty, that's why there are assistance settings. I really don't understand mocking people that like to play Pes in a different way.

Also, do you remember how ridiculously fast were Ps2 Pes games? Even Pes 5, the slowest Ps2 Pes, that i am replaying lately, is like a Pes 2019 on +3 and yet everyone loved it and called it a simulation game.

I mean, i don't care if people play it at +2, i'm happy that they have that option and it doesn't make their opinion less valuable than mine because they play it at +2. I just ask Konami to make Pes a balanced game at +2 or 0 speed, possibly without breaking anything or making it as boring as Pes 2019 was.

I think we all can agree that the greatest issue in Pes 2019 was CPU AI, right? Let's start from that and hope that they fixed it, so that we can push them to fix the next big issue. IF, it's a big if, they manage to go back to a reasonable AI that will already be a huge step forward in playability.
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Well, you are right. But it does say something about the kind of people going to these events. The sample pool is biased in the fast-pace wide open spaces arcade fun-loving crazy skill moves direction, put it that way. And I suppose it's not surprising, because the people who used to go to these events to represent the "Evo-Web philosophy" so to speak, (not saying everyone here thinks exactly the same way), such as B-man and his mates, have long since given up. PES has become a self-fulfilling prophecy in a sense, in that it's filtered out everyone who cares about a proper football sim and the only people still committed enough to get a voice at the table are those who really....don't.
 
amartingil said:
Ok. Then you think as experienced game dev it's easy and reasonable make the game more and more arcade for 3 or 4 years in a row and suddently focus on realism and achive it in 12 month.

Fouls and penalties exist in the game, AI behaviours is other stuff...
Dynamic weather is usefull, dynamic lighting is pure unusefull aesthetic.

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This one is, undoubtedly (for me), the best PES 2020 gameplay video I've seen so far.

Unfortunately, still looks like all players are just as quick or slow as the next one.
Catch-up bug or not, there's no difference between players' speed.
 
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amartingil said:

Nice video to enjoy ball physics...the best from far.

Ball spin and bounces are incredible. Huge amount of glue removed compared to 2019, which creates a lot of randomness and unpredictable situations. Those laser guided bounces to players feets seems that have disapeared.
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Sorry but itlooks horrendous.

Too much space not being properly occupied. The way players move is só weird. They glide at the same time they look unresponsive. It is like the game can not read situations to activate the proper animation to do the exact action.

Its Very hard for me to describe.

I would blame Fox Engine. But then I remember pés 2014 and what they could have achieve If they had Focus on their vision back then.

Konami is Just incompetent. They think they have a good game in their hands. Thats the worst part of It.
 
TheGoodOldDays said:
By the way I had to laugh when watching that video earlier by "Manny" I think his name was, who thinks a big strength of PES compared to FIFA is its shooting variety, and tells people not to worry about it being so slow because they can just increase the game speed to +2 "for a better experience". Where do they find these people? :LOL:
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He said that he thinks it looks and plays good as it is,but just let his viewers know that you can also put it on +1 or +2 if you want a faster gameplay,and that he plays at +2 at Twitch for his viewers.He's got 1,5 million subscribers and i guess many are young teens and we know what this crowd wants from a game.Fast paced action ''fun'' ''exciting'' gameplay..

At least his video showed many beautiful situations and animations and he went to slow-mo replay to show many beautiful realistic details.
On the other hand,Weedens' video was bad and doesn't show many good things.
It's almost like EA bribed him to make the game look like shit on purpose.
Well,it's not that they'd had to pay much to overcome what Konami is probably giving him.100 $ would be enough..:LOL:

Can't take any positive or negative hint very serious until we play the game ourselves.
Also it's a fact that the game always looks faster in a youtube video than when you're playing it because of the youtube video convertion.So some sped up animations you may see in the video may not be like that when you play it.
I think it will still have a good realistic feel of weight and everyone who's played it has said that.
Even weightier than 19 but with better responsiveness in some situations.That's a good combination and if they work it well it can be a good improvement because in 19 in some cases there was a ''lethargic'' feel especially when you control an attacker and there wasn't that nerve in his movement that you would expect to see.
 
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Can't wait to celebrate a goal in front of the Sir Bobby Chalton stand!:DD
Konami being Konamish once again..
By the way they said they will fix this.
Thank god someone noticed it otherwise they would probably release it like this..
 
TheGoodOldDays said:
Well, you are right. But it does say something about the kind of people going to these events. The sample pool is biased in the fast-pace wide open spaces arcade fun-loving crazy skill moves direction, put it that way. And I suppose it's not surprising, because the people who used to go to these events to represent the "Evo-Web philosophy" so to speak, (not saying everyone here thinks exactly the same way), such as B-man and his mates, have long since given up. PES has become a self-fulfilling prophecy in a sense, in that it's filtered out everyone who cares about a proper football sim and the only people still committed enough to get a voice at the table are those who really....don't.
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Well, they invited people that play Myclub, people that play Master League, offline guys, Pes universe guys, editing guys, Fifa guys, they invited people representing every part of the community. We can't be the focus, hardcore players can't be the only focus, that's why i am just expecting Pes to be as fun as possible for everyone.

Besides, Pes was never a simulation game, it was a realistic game but replaying old games really puts things into perspective. Pes was the awesome fusion of arcade elements with realistic elements. It still is this way, it still has both realistic and arcade elements.

What lacks today is the balance between arcade and simulation elements. Honestly i wouldn't be angry with them if they managed to make a game balanced, exciting, fun and realistic enough to last one year possibly without removing options and modes that already were in the game.
 
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Ameppe said:
Well, they invited people that play Myclub, people that play Master League, offline guys, Pes universe guys, editing guys, Fifa guys, they invited people representing every part of the community. We can't be the focus, hardcore players can't be the only focus, that's why i am just expecting Pes to be as fun as possible for everyone.

Besides, Pes was never a simulation game, it was a realistic game but replaying old games really puts things into perspective. Pes was the awesome fusion of arcade elements with realistic elements. It still is this way, it still has both realistic and arcade elements.

What lacks today is the balance between arcade and simulation elements. Honestly i wouldn't be angry with them if they managed to make a game balanced, exciting, fun and realistic enough to last one year possibly without removing options and modes that already were in the game.
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I'm agree. I've played PES 6 for a few months recently and I can recognize a lot of stuff viewing PES 2020 videos.
This doesn't happens to me when I see PES 2014, game that a lot of people here has put as reference.

10 minutes matches are the norm. And Konami balance the game to have realistic scores in this time. It would be nice if they develope some kind of altgorithm that adjust the accuracy of every action to time of match.

About the amount of space and how easy is attack: The 99% of the videos published, people/cpu play end to end games, so its natural that huge gaps appear when you play this way. Now, teams spend some time to reorganize after winning the ball, so I think this feature would have huge impact for those players who tend to dictate the tempo against ping-pong rush players.
 
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Ameppe said:
Well, they invited people that play Myclub, people that play Master League, offline guys, Pes universe guys, editing guys, Fifa guys, they invited people representing every part of the community. We can't be the focus, hardcore players can't be the only focus, that's why i am just expecting Pes to be as fun as possible for everyone.

Besides, Pes was never a simulation game, it was a realistic game but replaying old games really puts things into perspective. Pes was the awesome fusion of arcade elements with realistic elements. It still is this way, it still has both realistic and arcade elements.

What lacks today is the balance between arcade and simulation elements. Honestly i wouldn't be angry with them if they managed to make a game balanced, exciting, fun and realistic enough to last one year possibly without removing options and modes that already were in the game.
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I mostly agree, but just to give one example: I remember Matt10 doing videos on PES3 where it showed how much better the game was back then in terms of positional AI/closing passing lanes etc. The videos being posted here are *atrocious* in terms of how open and end to end it is. Like in one of them literally the first 5 or 6 attacks resulted in being through on goal or straight into the penalty area. Older PES games show it wasn't always like this, and yet could still be highly fun/addictive if it were more realistic.

AFAIK I don't think anyone is arguing for PES 2014.1, or that it should be some kind of hardcore simulation, just that PES 2014 was better in terms of some basic fundamentals and we've moved too far in the opposite direction where such things don't even appear to matter any more.

@ThomasGOAL Would be great if you could stop posting full resolution images, for people on mobile/limited bandwidth.
 
TheGoodOldDays said:
I mostly agree, but just to give one example: I remember Matt10 doing videos on PES3 where it showed how much better the game was back then in terms of positional AI/closing passing lanes etc. The videos being posted here are *atrocious* in terms of how open and end to end it is. Like in one of them literally the first 5 or 6 attacks resulted in being through on goal or straight into the penalty area. Older PES games show it wasn't always like this, and yet could still be highly fun/addictive if it were more realistic.
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I agree about positional issues. Replaying Pes 5 lately (i also played a bit of Pes 3 before) i noticed how the whole team shifts forward when you attack and there are long moments of attacking momentum when you can hammer the opponent area because your defenders and midfielders don't immediately backtrack the exact moment you lose the ball. They were more intelligent, if you know what i mean, they were definitely not so rigid in thinking that they must run as soon as possible to their positions. This is something that is there since at least Pes 2015 and every year it has been worse except maybe Pes 2017 were they put a bit more attention to AI positioning.

I remember in Pes 2016 defenders were so rigid into backtracking that they left huge empty spaces in the middle area. That year there was also the issue that players were particularly agile and you could just tear through their defence. I made this video



showing how easy it was to score against CPU at Superstar level, showed it to Adam, he acknowledged it and probably because of that too they tried to fix it as much as possible the next year with Pes 2017.
But since Pes 2018 they screwed things again and Pes 2020 seems to be following the same direction.

This is what i am talking about, Pes lately lacks balance or very probably they don't test things enough. This is an issue because they treat AI as the least of their concerns and that's wrong. Because AI influences not only offline games against the CPU, it also influences teammates positioning, and obviously it also influences online gameplay.

I don't think this is a choice, though. Even casual gamers don't want AI being so bad. Actually casual gamers complain that many times AI teammates behave like idiots leaving huge spaces and not having awareness of the ball so many are explaining that by calling it script, momentum, dynamic difficulties when it happens in Myclub.

In my opinion it's not that, it's simply badly coded AI.
 
Well, I dont share the same kind of optimism.

First, its not that the animations are fast but ugly. It doesnt look like football players on this game. It looks like they capture the moviments of some fella that dont know to play football at all. I been saying this for years. Except for 2014 and 2018 that the animations was almost flawless.

Second, its not that the playtasters likes to play ping pong but the game mechanics shouldnt allow them to play that fast.

If you ask me what I really want from this game, well I want a game that is IMPOSSIBLE to slice a low pass from a low skilled defender direct to the attacker. I want a game that make me pay attention to who Im controlling on the field, think about what is his stats, wich is his strong foot, try to get the right balance and then make an action. Simple right?
 
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