eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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PRO_TOO said:
;)

just an example: https://www.soccer-training-info.com/messi_walking.asp

maybe you do trust Pep: https://www.givemesport.com/889462-pep-guardiola-explains-why-lionel-messi-walks-around-a-pitch

maybe i just got your answer all wrong! if so, never mind! :BYE:

lets get back to topic! i like that slowly walking animation and to me, it fitted the scene perfectly. just my view! :)

edit: got it! all good! :D
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I suffered his walk a lot of times as Atletico fan...:BRICK:

I've seen him on live at Camp Nou, and it's ridiculous. You see rivals doing his maximum effort, and he destroys them walking around the pitch. Like he is playing against kids.:SMOKIN:
 
its all down to his football knowledge... he knows the game...! ;)
i cant tell you how many times i had to talk and adjust my fellow team mates when they are off the ball and out of position (irl)! "beeing" a goalie, i see that as part of my amateur-league-life! :D always screaming and guiding them through the match (i am the puppet master)! :LMAO:
its a fundamental part of the game. "off the ball behaviour"! you dont need to run somewhere all the time... just be there when its right! :D
but i am drifting ot here... sorry!
 
Apologies if this has been already asked, but are there any news on ML besides the press conference thing?
 
OK... I really hope they do some update for the co-op mode because of it ridiculous... without matchmaking system, I will not buy this game at all. The only mode that I play online is co-op, but I'm fed up with awful nightmares laggysh games vs guys from Uruguay, Argentina, Mexico, China, Thailand, Bangladesh and who know from where.. 100% from mars too. That is a Lose-Lose situation for anyone. There is zero chance for fun and good experience, it's always frustrating and you can't skip it! Yes, you can quit, but that means you lose levels, rating, and the match. You are screw up. Most of the players that far are playing alone with CPU partners... and that makes everything even worst.
 
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its999maggle said:
Dribbling looked fine to me last year. Just need to rework collisions and improve defender AI. Shoulder drops don't even work.
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Don't mean to come off as a jackass but if you think the movements in those gifs look fine or realistic, then I guess PES isn't for me anymore. Nothing further from what I'm looking for (in terms of dribbling).

Just take a look at the gigantic radius the moves are performed. Imagine seeing that in an actual football game, would look the player has no control over his body and ball at all.
0 close control.

The dribbling radius is just funny.


amartingil said:
Look at this video:


In Demo, Dribbling was focused on making ball touches in the last moment to evade the tackle, it feels natural.
In final relase, it is based on make huge turns and round the defender with the ball glued to your foot. It feels artificial.

You can dribble in both, but you haven't the same satisfaction feeling.

Demo dribbling mechanics are more natural and reliable.
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Yeah something like that. But still isn't PES 2013 level of dribbling.
If any of you still have PES 2013 either on PC or consoles, please go play a few short games with any team that has a good dribble and try to take on defenders just by jogging, running or sprinting in different directions.

It looked amazing even on players like Aimar or Kaka. God!

Anderson_PES said:
It looks like they improved the AI dribbling, was really glad to see Messi sprinting with the ball and then take on the defenders just like he does in real life.

giphy.gif
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Yeah I too hope to see super star players controlled by the AI totally destroy me like in that gif.
That gif gave me a little hope, because if you can do that between 2 or 3 defenders in tighter spaces, it will be somewhat similar to PES 2013.

Chris Davies said:
When people (@Chuny) say the dribbling doesn't look natural, I think this is what they're referring to (correct me if I'm wrong @Chuny).

How many times do you see a player in real-life chop so violently, 90 degrees each time, when on the dribble? But the absolute killer for me, how many times do you see a player turn away from the goal and run full-pelt towards his own goal when dribbling?

You might hold it up, yes, but to turn around and run away...

The fact that the GIF is sped up exacerbates it even more. It's just not what dribbling is.

NOTE: I'm only using this to demonstrate what @Chuny means - I'm not saying the best dribbling looks like this in PES 2019 or 2020, I've seen some really impressive-looking examples and @OBH's clips make me realise it is possible to beat a man by dribbling.

But there are (at the very least) elements of this "jank" in a lot of dribbling clips, and this is not a graphics snobbery thing, it's the fact that being locked onto those rails when you need to burst away is what makes it too easy for defenders to just lock on and win possession.

I feel like dribbling, in PES, has to be done "in advance". I can't react in real-time to a defender's movements because my input will be far too delayed to be useful. So I'm essentially just hoping that if I ask the player to throw his weight left, in a second's time, the defender won't happen to be moving left...

That's not how it works in reality, you read and react in less than a second. But this stuff is because the engine isn't yet true-360, and it isn't going away until the switch to Unreal.
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I'm starting to think that one of the biggest problems post-PES2013 is in the directions.
PES still doesn't feel like you can take advantage of 360° movement, which limits dribbling too.
PES 2013 wasn't 360 either, but at least they weren't trying to fake it, so the directions in which you could turn or move actually were represented better and the actions taken by the player felt more convinced.

I now think this is the key behind my profound dislike of the dribbling moves post-PES2013: The radius and the directions.

PESBUL said:
Yeah, so realistic! It's like you looking real live Messi vs Roma or Liverpool or some Word Cup or Copa America final.
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Ha ha ha... very funny mate!
 
Also worth mentioning they haven't said A THING about new tactics/formations options with more in-depth settings.
I was really hoping they would bring back some of the PES 2011's deep tactical features.

I think this part of the game has been so poor and lacking lately.
I don't even really feel like going into the Tactics menu AT ALL because it doesn't offer much. So I usually only set up my team once and just eventually get into it to replace one or two players and then get out.
 
It looks the game have some potential but still looks very unfinished like 2019, imo. Look how bad are some animations when players turn and quickly pass, ie. Players tap the ball to the side with a foot, and then float to pass it with the same foot.

I hope you understand what Im trying to say.
 
Chuny said:
Don't mean to come off as a jackass but if you think the movements in those gifs look fine or realistic, then I guess PES isn't for me anymore. Nothing further from what I'm looking for (in terms of dribbling).

Just take a look at the gigantic radius the moves are performed. Imagine seeing that in an actual football game, would look the player has no control over his body and ball at all.
0 close control.

The dribbling radius is just funny.




Yeah something like that. But still isn't PES 2013 level of dribbling.
If any of you still have PES 2013 either on PC or consoles, please go play a few short games with any team that has a good dribble and try to take on defenders just by jogging, running or sprinting in different directions.

It looked amazing even on players like Aimar or Kaka. God!



Yeah I too hope to see super star players controlled by the AI totally destroy me like in that gif.
That gif gave me a little hope, because if you can do that between 2 or 3 defenders in tighter spaces, it will be somewhat similar to PES 2013.



I'm starting to think that one of the biggest problems post-PES2013 is in the directions.
PES still doesn't feel like you can take advantage of 360° movement, which limits dribbling too.
PES 2013 wasn't 360 either, but at least they weren't trying to fake it, so the directions in which you could turn or move actually were represented better and the actions taken by the player felt more convinced.

I now think this is the key behind my profound dislike of the dribbling moves post-PES2013: The radius and the directions.



Ha ha ha... very funny mate!
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Lmao, I broke my controller. That's what you get with a keyboard. I have more gifs lying around that aren't absurd.
 
Anderson_PES said:
It looks like they improved the AI dribbling, was really glad to see Messi sprinting with the ball and then take on the defenders just like he does in real life.

giphy.gif
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I actually didn't like this as much as other's did.

Yes it's been nice seeing an AI Messi trying to take people on, but he should have began to cut in a LOOOONG time ago. He had seprated himself by about 10+ yards which is like miles for Messi.

Picky opinion, I know. We should probably take what we can get at this point lol. I'm worried it becomes a set thing wingers constantly try to do while taking on defenders.
 
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talucchesi said:
I actually didn't like this as much as other's did.

Yes it's been nice seeing an AI Messi trying to take people on, but he should have began to cut in a LOOOONG time ago. He had seprated himself by about 10+ yards which is like miles for Messi.

Picky opinion, I know. We should probably take what we can get at this point lol. I'm worried it becomes a set thing wingers constantly try to do while taking on defenders.
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I thought so too!
Looked a little weird that Messi kept going for so long when he had a lot of space to cut inside long before that!
 
Yeah
Chuny said:
I thought so too!
Looked a little weird that Messi kept going for so long when he had a lot of space to cut inside long before that!
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Yeah, i also noticed that. Also i noticed (even in pes19) whenever a player cuts inside, there's a slight slowdown which inturn makes the defender catch up. Looks like they haven't fixed that.

Can someone please post a gif of that Messi's header. It was brilliant.
 
talucchesi said:
I actually didn't like this as much as other's did.

Yes it's been nice seeing an AI Messi trying to take people on, but he should have began to cut in a LOOOONG time ago. He had seprated himself by about 10+ yards which is like miles for Messi.

Picky opinion, I know. We should probably take what we can get at this point lol. I'm worried it becomes a set thing wingers constantly try to do while taking on defenders.
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We're so used to AI not dribbling, that it wows some people when they see something like this even though it's not really well done.

You're not picky! It's just that some people's standards has become lower and lower. Can't blame them because we can't really expect much game improvements from the devs.
 
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I don't think we'll see true improvements in the AI until next gen, I think it has hit a ceiling on current gen consoles.

I hope they create a new engine as well for future PES games, the Fox Engine has had its day.
 
I agree - the standard of the game, and therefore our expectations from it, have fallen so low that people are getting now excited about some seeing fundamental aspects of football, like an AI dribble or long-shot, when these things used to be in the game 15 years ago.

PES (2019 in particular) has reduced the AI to such a basic, repetitive model across all AI players and teams that we're now to view Messi doing some sort of crude dribble as a major break-through in computer gaming?

And cut-scenes in ML mode is a massive overhaul of ML?

Yeah right.
 
I think we'll never see improved ai,ever. If anything it will regress. There is no need for it from a developer / publisher standpoint and if anything it hinders focus on multiplayer. Now as to what we, here on evoweb, want; that's another story entirely.
 
StriderX9 said:
I don't think we'll see true improvements in the AI until next gen, I think it has hit a ceiling on current gen consoles.

I hope they create a new engine as well for future PES games, the Fox Engine has had its day.
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I disagree. The Ai has been dialed back deliberately to encourage gamers to go online. I don't believe for a moment that the fox engine has reached It's limit with regards to ai. The Devs just don't want to put much effort into offline Ai.
 
Very disappointed so far. PLayers are skating all over, ball physics same all crap, animations in transition pretty shocking for this day and age, same boring long replays after fouls and offside (give me an option to set them off ffs). I'll stick to the old school pes. This game has lost it for good, no wonder sales are down 70% in the last decade.
 
normazimuth said:
PES (2019 in particular) has reduced the AI to such a basic, repetitive model across all AI players and teams that we're now to view Messi doing some sort of crude dribble as a major break-through in computer gaming?
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beggars cant be choosers, lads...

I dont think anyone is throwing a party here, celebrating break-through in computer gaming. People are just happy to see some improvements and developers looking into AI after such a clusterfuck we had this year. There is a chance that offline people will have a reasonably enjoyable Master League with Pes20, so just let them be happy..
We all know that we are at the bottom of priority pile, when it comes to football gaming and it took a long year (many years in fact) of frustration, battling Konami, tweeting, sending clips and feedbacks, in order for them to put some effort into Master League. So lets just take it and try to enjoy it.

Last night I played my Mallorca save on Pes17 and had a match against Real Madrid. Ronaldo was absolutely destroying me with his dribbling and skill moves. Every time he had a ball I was in panic mode, couldnt stop the fucker. Ended up in 3-3 thriller, best game I had all year.

Are my legs shaking when I see Messi having little solo dribble in Pes20? No. But Im definetely optimistic, hoping for some reasonably enjoyable, exciting and unpredictable matches in Pes20.
Anything they do to AI will be an improvement to what we had this year.

Edit:
AI has nothing to do with FOX engine. Pes17 is the best proof that you can get good AI, with teams and players ID. And that was 3 years ago.
 
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ISS1970 said:
Very disappointed so far. PLayers are skating all over, ball physics same all crap, animations in transition pretty shocking for this day and age, same boring long replays after fouls and offside (give me an option to set them off ffs). I'll stick to the old school pes. This game has lost it for good, no wonder sales are down 70% in the last decade.
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I dont think theres much problem with the salse and/or rather with the income. We wouldnt have the mobile and lite game for free, those just lure more audiance in to spend money in myclub. Imagine if only the half of 200 million people who downloaded the mobile game spend 5 dollars in myclub.
 
Paynekiller said:
I disagree. The Ai has been dialed back deliberately to encourage gamers to go online. I don't believe for a moment that the fox engine has reached It's limit with regards to ai. The Devs just don't want to put much effort into offline Ai.
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It doesn't even have to be deliberate (although it could be). It could simply be neglected. After all their focus is on online/myclub, no need for complex AI as humans will take over for both teams, the rest of the players simply sprint to their pre-set positions according to formation, et voilà! Your online focused game is ready to be sold!

Game engine also has zero to do with AI. It's just a layer between the game and the hardware, making it easy for the game to run on different consoles/hardware and that's it. To say that the pes AI is limited by current gen processing power is a bit of a joke really. We've had complex chess AI in 1980s personal computers. Now, i'm not saying AI programming is easy, but it's clearly limited by konami's minimum effort possible.
 
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