eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

[Madmac79]

I'd feel much more simpathy for them if that was always the tone of their answers.

 

[PESMaster01]

I'd feel much more simpathy for them if that was always the tone of their answers.

Someone here had said they want some answer like this from KONAMI, just posted to say that they got it.

 

[Madmac79]

By the way, even in 2019 there was a rare dribbling here and there. In the videos I've watched so far, by my perception the percentage only increased by a small margin and most of all they rarely seem "contextual"..

We'd need wingers or second strikers try to dribble in a more useful and efficient way, midfielders trying to keep the ball more on the feet and sometimes, according with their playstyle and characteristics, trying to create superiority with a dribbling.. and so far I haven't seen anything like that in any meaningful consistency, especially in the midfield where all they think about is just to first touch pass away.

 

[Emroth]

Adam tweeted this before the other post. And fair play to him. Thats the direction they all should have had taken.
But straight after came that trolling tweet and ruined everything positive from Konami.

 

[Paynekiller]

The way I see it, EA over the last few years have been focused on only two things, Licences and profit from FUT. Gameplay has taken a back seat for many years and it seems that PES is making the same mistakes. Gameplay should take presidence first and foremost because fighting over licences seems pointless if the game doesn't provide an enjoyable experience.

 

[pacpes]

Everyone knows we cannot outspend EA

I bet that sweet pachinko money disagrees...

 

[Schwarzenbeck]

Slightly off-topic but EA lost £660m off their company value yesterday. It'll likely recover and it barely makes a dent in their value but that just shows the impact that announcement has had.

http://www.sportbible.com/news/gami...5y0kc3ejOkoGzHu6w1nKnBEF5sLjXk?source=twitter

We have often been making fun of Konami’s PR and overall strategy (and rightfully so) but this scoop really worked, so credit, where credit is due.

 

[fefepes]

it is funny that ea lost juve after we go without bayern and dortmund etc however in 2 years they may take juve back and thats not good

if fifapro rules ever change pes will die,right now pes can deal with losing licenses in england,italy,spain because of option files but still thin ice.

 

[TheGoodOldDays]

I havent seen more shot error than in 2019. Only the volleys has great variety but once you face on goal its still on target 8/10 or goes wide, over with that magic 1-2 meters. So its the same as 19.

As for dribbling? Are u kidding? Its the same as 19. I only saw 2 dribbles in all vods and thats the same as 19.

People want to see what they want. But if u hit up or watch any 13 vids i posted theres the last time u can see shot error and dribbling. Thats the stuff.

My attitude is that if people have to go digging for timestamps then it's probably placebo effect/confirmation bias. If it's fixed then it should be in your face obvious. The AI improvements look absolutely minuscule, certainly not enough to make it enjoyable again, but we'll see who ends up being right.

 

[chiefrocka4real]

Poor animations? In comparison to? to Fifa? to a CGI?

It's too easy use ragdoll system like fifa does. But you like its weird animations?

It's too easy take all stuff from motion capture and make a CGI, or a animation system like PES 2014, without any differences between players, with a rigid control and freedomless.



I'm agree about the engine. About devs, I think the point is Konami hasn't enought resources to do everything we want. And Konami puts huge focus on aesthetics, bzc if the game has a big visual impact, it will generate more sales.

Fifa has 3x more fluid animations than Pes. Pes devs has still problem make fluid 360* degree. FIFA 10 on PS3 had full 360* degree. It was 9 years ago! Shame Konami.

Seriously? FIFA animations on Forsbite looks better, are more fluid and transition between them are much better than Pes animations. Pshysics between players are better in FIFA too. Only ball physics is better in Pes. Keepers animations in FIFA i mean quality are better than Pes. What are you talking about? Its reality... I love Pes too but i will not lie.

Animations...

They might be more fluid in some cases and transitions might be better in FIFA, but I always take PES animations (with all the flaws) over that cartoonish puppetish movement in FIFA.
It looks off to me after the very first seconds of gameplay and this has been the case before and after shifting to Frostbite.
That´s the main thing I can´t play EA´s game and this will probably never change.
Not to mention ball physics.

A few animations need to get cut out or overdone in PES.
For example when you sprint with the ball and change directions, the player makes a strange step which slows him down.
Easy for the defender to catch up that way.

Another thing I dislike since PES 2019:
When scoring a goal, cheering looks off to me.
Instead of just cheering, the player runs but looks behind him waving at his mates.
This is in PES 2020 in still and I don´t really like it.
On PES 2018 it was a lot better, the player kept running forward cheering and jumping.

At least they got Müller´s face right for the first time^^.

 

[janguv]

I do laugh when Adam goes on about "club values", as though any of these clubs make a decision to be in PES or FIFA on the basis of anything other than revenue.

Well, I suppose, that's a "club value" thing as well!

But they try and make it out like the clubs are cultures, with ideals, norms, ethics. It's just the marketing department, though, and it's all about dollar.

 

[Chris Davies]

Someone here had said they want some answer like this from KONAMI, just posted to say that they got it.

Adam's tweet is the attitude I'd expect of a company that wants respect (and should be respected for their achievements). Not the Trumpesque style of the Lygaard guy. Be a troll on your own time, not company time.

Animations...

They might be more fluid in some cases and transitions might be better in FIFA, but I always take PES animations (with all the flaws) over that cartoonish puppetish movement in FIFA.

This isn't the thread for comparisons involving the other game - but in this instance, for the purpose of demonstrating what I personally would mean when complaining about PES's animation system, I would be talking about things like this:


Comparing it to this:


We're not talking about graphics, we're talking about how the game handles the animation in certain contexts and how that completely breaks gameplay as a result.

Once you see the stuff in the first clip, I don't know how you could think anything other than the game (defensively) has major issues that destroy the recreation of the sport.

 

[janguv]

Watching that Juve vs Juve vid something irritates me which i think could be solved by implementing something of an advanced passing functionality, lets call this precision passing.

Here's how i think it could work: by default a normal or 'quick pass' would get a much much higher margin of error then is the case now. How high exactly depends on the players skill but also - and especially - if the area you are passing towards is currently within or outside the line of sight of the controlled player.

To balance out this increased risk of misplaced passes, you can now choose to send a precision pass which takes just a fraction more time because it will require your player to first have a quick look towards the area your pass is send to. The results is a more intentional and tighter pass with a much lower margin of error.

IMHO, if there would be something implemented along these lines, it would not only add much needed depth to the passing game but also go a long way in reducing ping-pong situations. When you see players blindly backheeling while time and time again the ball magically find its target.. it just does not make sense on multiple levels.

Then again, it should of course be totally possible to perform a backheel. We are talking professional footballers here. But if you do it with a lesser skilled player it should require more focus and effort. You cant just casually backheel with the likes of Viera and Busquets and expect a perfect outcome. There should be a risk assessment in play here, just a quick "Should i do it? This might end up bad!" followed by "Ill use a precision pass to reduce the risk".

Instead of just a two button combination you could go a step further and make it possible to move the head of the player independent of his body by flicking the right analog stick (plus a button so it does not interfere with tricks). By doing so you can control the player's line of sight before sending a pass - or even before you receive the ball - and by doing so significantly reduce the margin of error.

Imagine looking over your shoulder just before receiving the ball and then doing a backheel. Your skill to manage this would be rewarded by a better and less risky pass. Ultimately players will still have the same control but it just requires a bit more skill in certain situations. The option is so if you are willingly taking a risk because that's just the easier and quicker option, and this results in a misskick or slightly off pass, i guess its easier to accept the negative outcome then.

In the end passing is such a big part of the game and i dont think the complexity of it can be captured with the timing of a single button press alone. Because it is not only about timing, body position, aim and power but also about awareness of your suroundings. One the first thing you learn when you start to play football is to keep your head up.
Wachting these video's i am starting to think this layer of awareness should be represented more in the game and it should be a human controlled element. Not in the least because it counters unskilled ping-pong passing but at the same time it should not restrict the possibilities.

As others have pointed out before there is a lack of punishment for certain actions that make everything feel and look like something that is not football. Dont get me wrong, i am far from a simulation fetishist; for me the game should be like an impressionist painting, repesenting reality, slightly exaggerated but still aware of the real thing. This means basic physics and predictional models should still apply, mostly. Yes, with a lot of luck, you should be able to pull of 3 succesful backheels in a row. As long as on average it stays something of a rarity.

Perhaps its the act of moving players around the pitch from a perspective as if you where in the stadium, this top-down god-like perspective, which creates this blind spot for the actual players vision. But how are we supposed to identify with these players if we are not forced to look at the world from their perspective? I just wonder what it would bring to the game if player vision was something you could temporarily take over in a way that is intuitive and subtle, whilst still leaving a large part of it in the hands of the abilities of the footballer in question.

I do like these ideas! Not sure about implementation – I would probably avoid having a "move head to look" command.

The risk is always going too command-heavy (the FIFA direction) or too command-light (the PES direction). I think you're going for some compromise here, in having a separate command for a more accurate pass, whereas as it stands, the player will set in/take a longer wind-up only triggered by context. And the really frustrating thing with that is it's not well-tuned. Just look at the Van Dijk clearance in @Chris Davies's video:


So it would be good to either have such things very well-tuned to the context/player stats (not by making passes too accurate), or else to have greater control, without introducing loads of commands.

 

[janguv]

Adam's tweet is the attitude I'd expect of a company that wants respect (and should be respected for their achievements). Not the Trumpesque style of the Lygaard guy. Be a troll on your own time, not company time.

Trumpesque? That's taking it a bit far mate! He's clearly a jokey character, it's his own account, and he's just having a bit of fun. I really don't know why people take it so seriously.

 

[Chris Davies]

Trumpesque? That's taking it a bit far mate! He's clearly a jokey character, it's his own account, and he's just having a bit of fun. I really don't know why people take it so seriously.

Maybe you're right. But this "it's my personal account" stuff is nonsense - because if it's your personal account, you don't talk business on there. It's childish - but it's more than childish, it's taking delight in your competitor losing millions. That's jobs, that's people's lives. It's more than just a childish "ner-ner".

It leaves a sour taste, and it brings out the worst in people (i.e. the fans), encourages even more mud-slinging.

 

[vialli82]

Well... We don't know his story with EA. He worked for them in the past.

Perhaps that was a kind of revenge with humor.
Even if i agree with most of about his tweet and his position, personnal account or not, funny or not, it's not a really professionnal attitude (always repeating the same thing at every post about it but well... I don't find others words)

 

[janguv]

Maybe you're right. But this "it's my personal account" stuff is nonsense - because if it's your personal account, you don't talk business on there. It's childish - but it's more than childish, it's taking delight in your competitor losing millions. That's jobs, that's people's lives. It's more than just a childish "ner-ner".

It leaves a sour taste, and it brings out the worst in people (i.e. the fans), encourages even more mud-slinging.

Well, I do think Lygaard has not solicited fanbase attention to his own account in quite the same way that some other Konami guys have done in the past. I mean, he's not always branding himself as the PES guy who you go to for PES tidbits. He just shares stuff relevant to his job there sometimes, along with pics of his kids or his favourite football team news. The line between public and private is ever more blurred, sure, but there's still something to the notion, and just because he shares work-related things there doesn't mean he's obligated to be professional as in a work capacity there too.

The line about jobs and lives – I mean, come on Chris! That's eerily reminiscent of that absurd Polygon article you (I think it was you) shared a little while back, with its teary-eyed plea not to ban microtransactions:

These modes, if they don’t directly pay for the games we enjoy, at least justify the workforces and development costs that make them worth playing. That oily MTX money — hard as it is to defend, even in the abstract — helps those women and men deliver something that meets the unrelenting it’s-in-the-game standard we’ve taken for granted for a couple of decades.

Slightly different topic, but I don't think we should be getting sombre about changes to the financial landscape of games which may see massive corporations lose out in some way. At the end of the day, exclusive licensing is an awful business practice, even more awful when used by the most powerful game publisher to buy success away from a competitor. If EA temporarily get hurt by being given a taste of its own medicine, it at least shines a light on the crap they cause with their own business practices.

I don't think we can draw a line from Konami's getting the exclusive Juve licence to EA employees (putatively) losing work, but even if we could, I don't think it would merit any special moral judgement, over-and-above judgement of the larger exploitative system as a whole, and the way in which the larger players conduct themselves in the market. EA have built these practices, almost from the ground up (including of course developer crunch and gambling-for-kids). If anyone's business practice is worthy of special condemnation, it's theirs.

 

[TheGoodOldDays]

This isn't the thread for comparisons involving the other game - but in this instance, for the purpose of demonstrating what I personally would mean when complaining about PES's animation system, I would be talking about things like this:


Comparing it to this:


We're not talking about graphics, we're talking about how the game handles the animation in certain contexts and how that completely breaks gameplay as a result.

Once you see the stuff in the first clip, I don't know how you could think anything other than the game (defensively) has major issues that destroy the recreation of the sport.

In the first vid that last example was a foul imo. Those are given almost every time in WE9LE, although the critical difference is the AI gets the same rules applied to them. You could argue it's too sensitive even, but because it's fairly applied you get the satisfaction of winning fouls against the AI, sometimes multiple in succession when they are trying to hound you. Although it was when I had started off by playing on 3 star just to get back into the swing of things, I no lie had five penalties conceded by the AI in the space of 5 or 6 games, two in one match on one occasion. All of them looked realistic as well i.e. not just bugged ref decisions. You forget how good the AI was back then, when I watch the offside replays my defenders actually feel like little humans diligently keeping the line, stepping up at the right time to catch them off etc. It's driven home what a soulless empty shell of a game the newer iterations are.

 

[Marlon Anthony]

Maybe you're right. But this "it's my personal account" stuff is nonsense - because if it's your personal account, you don't talk business on there. It's childish - but it's more than childish, it's taking delight in your competitor losing millions. That's jobs, that's people's lives. It's more than just a childish "ner-ner".

It leaves a sour taste, and it brings out the worst in people (i.e. the fans), encourages even more shit-slinging. Build bridges, rather than ... being a d!ck. (Not great at metaphors.)

I agree, But it's more of a symptom of Konami insisting on giving faces to their social media, I don't really understand it.

Official PES's account's followers dwarf's those of their PR guys so why can't they just stick to their main account for announcements, Promoting, Teases etc? It's strange that they call them personal accounts yet use them to promote their company, Then retaliate to criticism in ways which an official company social media would never dream of doing!

 

[chiefrocka4real]

C'mon..tell the truth..
You would just want to see him celebrate with his shirt off and showing his abs wouldn't you..

Well, how about that one?

As much as I like Ronaldo, but sometimes he really does feed his haters .

Adam's tweet is the attitude I'd expect of a company that wants respect (and should be respected for their achievements). Not the Trumpesque style of the Lygaard guy. Be a troll on your own time, not company time.


This isn't the thread for comparisons involving the other game - but in this instance, for the purpose of demonstrating what I personally would mean when complaining about PES's animation system, I would be talking about things like this:


Comparing it to this:


We're not talking about graphics, we're talking about how the game handles the animation in certain contexts and how that completely breaks gameplay as a result.

Once you see the stuff in the first clip, I don't know how you could think anything other than the game (defensively) has major issues that destroy the recreation of the sport.

I said in my post "with all the flaws".
I´m totally aware of many many animation and physicality problems in PES.

But I still mean it. It looks a lot better in PES to me.

On the other hand, FIFA animations in slow motion always look good!
But seeing those in the actual gameplay pace is a major turnoff for me....sorry.
Puppetish! (if that´s even a word).

Each to their own, mate .

 

[NFS_FM]

Club Universitario de Deportes from Perú lists PES 2020 as an official sponsor, while Sporting Cristal and Alianza Lima still retain the PES 2019 logo.

Also, does anyone know anything new concerning Coupe de la Ligue BKT? KONAMI is an official partner since last year.

 

[tosser]

The way I see it, EA over the last few years have been focused on only two things, Licences and profit from FUT. Gameplay has taken a back seat for many years and it seems that PES is making the same mistakes. Gameplay should take presidence first and foremost because fighting over licences seems pointless if the game doesn't provide an enjoyable experience.

But in the last Fifa they added two new characters to the Journey mode, the new timed shot feature and a shitload of new friendly types? I didn't like Fifa 19 but I can't agree that EA ever neglect the offline mode, unlike konami

 

[Emroth]

At the end of the day, exclusive licensing is an awful business practice, even more awful when used by the most powerful game publisher to buy success away from a competitor. If EA temporarily get hurt by being given a taste of its own medicine, it at least shines a light on the crap they cause with their own business practices.

And thats exactly the reason why I was so disappointed and pissed off by his attitude.

The spot light was on exclusive licensing and how it hurts everyone. Adam started it of very well. Instead of use this case as an example, instead of trying to unite people (all people, even those on EA side) and reach out to EA, the other fella opted for pure Cartman approach.


Who knows? Maybe if there was enough noise and pressure from people, EA would agreed to give them EPL and Bundesliga (having a limit of, lets say, two stadiums in each league) and in exchange get Camp Nou, russian league and unlock Juve (and all other exclusives they have) next year.

But we'll never know now, coz people who are supposed to be most professional, are measuring dicks and laughing along with 15 year old fan boys.

 

[piccolo_bsc]

One small feature will decide whether i'll play on PC or PS4: Adjust Budget in ML
It can't be that hard to implement since Baris already made a tool on PC for it...
I started a new ML on PS4 in the 2nd division and i am stuck with 19mill transfer budget and 100k salary budget, can't buy anyone...this is stupid...

 

[Flipper the Priest]

But in the last Fifa they added two new characters to the Journey mode, the new timed shot feature and a shitload of new friendly types? I didn't like Fifa 19 but I can't agree that EA ever neglect the offline mode, unlike konami

Career Mode, arguably their core offline mode, has been widely neglected for years. That was a key reason behind me ditching FIFA.

 

[Loopy]

One small feature will decide whether i'll play on PC or PS4: Adjust Budget in ML
It can't be that hard to implement since Baris already made a tool on PC for it...
I started a new ML on PS4 in the 2nd division and i am stuck with 19mill transfer budget and 100k salary budget, can't buy anyone...this is stupid...

It has been confirmed that adjusting the starting transfer budget has been added. Additionally I do think that transfers and salaries this year will have a substantial improvement on last year's so I think that your issue will be solved. I still think that PC is always the way to go though.

 

[ozdemibr]

i like so much

 

[tommyk1985]

It has been confirmed that adjusting the starting transfer budget has been added. Additionally I do think that transfers and salaries this year will have a substantial improvement on last year's so I think that your issue will be solved. I still think that PC is always the way to go though.

It's one of the main negatives (for me, an avid Master League player) in recent years. What gives me hope for 2020 is that 2019 was an improvement on 2018. They stopped those massive cash injections every season. But I still ended up with a massive transfer fund and hardly any wage budget. In my current ML save I have £200m to spend on transfers, but nothing left in wages, after 6 seasons! This is after starting with the defaults.

I hope they make it much harder to sign free agents and promising youths. But they won't.

 

[piccolo_bsc]

It has been confirmed that adjusting the starting transfer budget has been added. Additionally I do think that transfers and salaries this year will have a substantial improvement on last year's so I think that your issue will be solved. I still think that PC is always the way to go though.

What do you mean with "starting" transfer budget? Do you have a source link please?

 

[Elanimator]

They need to fix those 3 stupid things.
Here's the issue with the 3rd one(foul on offensive player).

Even if the defenders initiated the contact, the "foul call" will be in favor of him as long as he's first to touch the ball.
They need to fix the foul detection system.

The PSG players are called for fouls here.
Leg clothesline!

Flying knee!

Foul called on Asensio!