PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

@zeemeister I really respect you and your opinions. And I usually agree with you more often than not. But you're coming off too pedantic these days. Try to be less ironic and maybe stop dismissing people who think differently, please. If you're not willing to engage in discussions where you're presented with evidence, tests, or at least simply with opinions, why answer at all?.
 
Chuny said:
@zeemeister I really respect you and your opinions. And I usually agree with you more often than not. But you're coming off too pedantic these days. Try to be less ironic and maybe stop dismissing people who think differently, please. If you're not willing to engage in discussions where you're presented with evidence, tests, or at least simply with opinions, why answer at all?.
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Apologies for calling bullshit when I see it. I am not a very pretentious person.

Also need to add I play pes 365 days minimum 30mins everyday. It hurts my heart when people who can't accept pes for what it is try to fifarise it. I don't get fifa, played it voiced my opinion got banned for a week and didn't bother going back to highlight my issues because it's not how I operate. I said my bit and I move on

If someone has a valid point I will hear them out. But the moment you come across with an agenda and started spouting garbage I will call you out.

Sorry if I do this but rather be honest and open about my feelings
 
zeemeister said:
Apologies for calling bullshit when I see it. I am not a very pretentious person.

Also need to add I play pes 365 days minimum 30mins everyday. It hurts my heart when people who can't accept pes for what it is try to fifarise it. I don't get fifa, played it voiced my opinion got banned for a week and didn't bother going back to highlight my issues because it's not how I operate. I said my bit and I move on

If someone has a valid point I will hear them out. But the moment you come across with an agenda and started spouting garbage I will call you out.

Sorry if I do this but rather be honest and open about my feelings
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I wasn't talking about whether you agree or disagree with my (or anyone's) opinion, mate.

We can freely disagree or think differently. I play PES everyday, at least 2 hours (except for Thursdays because I play some real life football myself and then Saturdays and Sundays which is when I can spend some quality time with my girl). And as I said many many times in here, I enjoy PES 2018. I really do. But it doesn't stop me from opening my eyes regarding certain aspects of the game. And since Konami can't please everbody (because we all want different things, apparently) then now that the basics are pretty damn good, add sliders so we can all please ourselves.
 
Sliders..... Omg please stop. I can't anymore.

I remember a few years ago not sure which pes it was but it was the pc demo when it used to be released with the console version.

As is the case with pc demos people started to unlock teams, stadia, time unlockers etc which was all fine and dandy
At one point though one of these dudes unlocked a global editor and it had a sort of slide system in place as well

Do you know at an absolute shit show ensued from that? The game became a mess and it had a knock on effect on everything to the point where it was a completely broken. I eventually had to delete it and waited for the full game.

Another thing that grates me about sliders is that overides player individuality completely. Yes Konami take liberties with speed and catch up bugs and scripting especially because they have to stop exploits and definitely going about it the wrong way but no way do I want a generic pattern to happen based on my sliders it will not work with PES

Fifa is a generic and it can't even get slides to do what it needs. So my question is why the hell bother adding another skin to a rotten onion. It's not going to fix the core issue.

Also it inevitably becomes a cop out for devs. Look at how we have become QC for game devs since patching became a thing. It's makes them sloppy and us frustrated and I fear sliders will cause this as well

Lastly, since that story about speed stats came out the fifa crew have been spewing about a complete loss of individuality. There has been a massive push on their front to discredit pes on this and its completely unfounded barr that one chap that did a training match speed test or whatever it was. Since then they have been banging this drum about PES losing its soul. If you play pes how the hell can you ever claim Messi is the same as any other player? It's akin to telling me the sun is purple because you happened to see it through a haze one day. And the absolute worst part is they don't understand simple things as to why a players react the way they do on PES based in their skill cards etc. Yet they want to "fix" pes

Anyway fuck sliders I said my bit hope it never gets to PES. It will be the death knell of the series.
 
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Okay I just used a team full of goal keepers and beat Man City 4-1 in Superstar difficulty and then I picked Man City and lost against Crystal Palace. WTF is this game? What has the new patch done? Why are all the crappy teams playing so good? How can I dribble the whole Man City team with a goal keeper in super star? Both FIFA 18 and PES 2018 have a lot of potential but really shallow because of the lack of emphasis on stats. I can't have another year just playing PES 5 and PES 6. This is becoming a joke at this point. PES have got almost everything right apart from the fundamentals of football and the variety of teams/players. I cannot get immersed knowing that i can beat Man City with a team full of goal keepers but Crystal Palace can beat Real Madrid. I cannot ignore it. It's so disappointing. I think this is my first rant for PES 2018. The controls and the mechanism is spot on but the laziness is starting to show now.
 
Why on earth would you go make a team full of goal keepers?

Did you know that if you play pes and put the controller down nothing happens. The AI just stands around not doing anything basically. Well it used to be this way all through pes 1-2016. That didnt stop our enjoyment of it.

Maybe we just getting too old for games... Innocence is lost.
 
zeemeister said:
Sliders..... Omg please stop. I can't anymore.

I remember a few years ago not sure which pes it was but it was the pc demo when it used to be released with the console version.

As is the case with pc demos people started to unlock teams, stadia, time unlockers etc which was all fine and dandy
At one point though one of these dudes unlocked a global editor and it had a sort of slide system in place as well

Do you know at an absolute shit show ensued from that? The game became a mess and it had a knock on effect on everything to the point where it was a completely broken. I eventually had to delete it and waited for the full game.
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You have no idea what you're talking about right there. First of all, that was Jenkey. One of the prodigal sons that has ever graced the PES community. He didn't unlock sliders. He created a slider type of option to set pass speed, shot curve, shot power, shot curve, player's reaction. But those weren't "hidden" instead the game's code. He simply found how to make those items more pronnounced, more powerfull, faster or slower. But that means he was actually modifying something in a way Konami never intended to.

Which is VERY different to having the very same company and the very same team that create the game adding actual REAL sliders implemented in the right way.

I'm very sorry that you can't see the advantages Sliders could bring to the game. And I'm even more sorry that you can't just say "I wouldn't use them, but it would be nice for the people that wants to have them" Since, you know, it's just an OPTION.
 
zeemeister said:
Sliders..... Omg please stop. I can't anymore.

I remember a few years ago not sure which pes it was but it was the pc demo when it used to be released with the console version.

As is the case with pc demos people started to unlock teams, stadia, time unlockers etc which was all fine and dandy
At one point though one of these dudes unlocked a global editor and it had a sort of slide system in place as well

Do you know at an absolute shit show ensued from that? The game became a mess and it had a knock on effect on everything to the point where it was a completely broken. I eventually had to delete it and waited for the full game.

Another thing that grates me about sliders is that overides player individuality completely. Yes Konami take liberties with speed and catch up bugs and scripting especially because they have to stop exploits and definitely going about it the wrong way but no way do I want a generic pattern to happen based on my sliders it will not work with PES

Fifa is a generic and it can't even get slides to do what it needs. So my question is why the hell bother adding another skin to a rotten onion. It's not going to fix the core issue.

Also it inevitably becomes a cop out for devs. Look at how we have become QC for game devs since patching became a thing. It's makes them sloppy and us frustrated and I fear sliders will cause this as well

Lastly, since that story about speed stats came out the fifa crew have been spewing about a complete loss of individuality. There has been a massive push on their front to discredit pes on this and its completely unfounded barr that one chap that did a training match speed test or whatever it was. Since then they have been banging this drum about PES losing its soul. If you play pes how the hell can you ever claim Messi is the same as any other player? It's akin to telling me the sun is purple because you happened to see it through a haze one day. And the absolute worst part is they don't understand simple things as to why a players react the way they do on PES based in their skill cards etc. Yet they want to "fix" pes

Anyway fuck sliders I said my bit hope it never gets to PES. It will be the death knell of the series.
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why do you think that fifa fans want to discredit PES, its nonsense. The majority of people on here buy both games so if they feel that individuality is not as good that is what they see and to be fair it is true. Does Messi stand out , yes he does and so do some of the other big players but that's it. Playing master league bringing on an average player doesn't matter as much as it used to back in pes 5 days as stats for all other players just doesn't have as big as an impact. I remember really thinking about a signing back in the day, now it doesn't matter too much as shooting is very similar across the board as is pace. feel free to disagree but thats how it is. PES 17 was the same and i stuck with that all year
 
Obviously I don't think I can come close to convincing you that sliders are a good thing, but the idea that sliders kill individuality is 100%, unequivocally, not true.

Sliders in fact allow you to highlight individuality even more. Stats don't disappear when you change a pass or shooting accuracy slider, it does a few things: makes more difficult passes (i.e. blind passes backwards, or 80 yard passes) harder, and drops the general passing accuracy floor for a player lower. What this means in practical terms is that the players with lower stats will now make inaccurate passes more often on difficult/off balanced passes, and more simple passes will go astray... BUT better players will make those passes with more accuracy. Now that worse players are failing on those passes more often, you now have to think more about who you're using to make that pass, rather than knowing that the pass will be successful 90% of the time no matter who you use. Does that make sense?

zeemeister said:
Why on earth would you go make a team full of goal keepers?

Did you know that if you play pes and put the controller down nothing happens. The AI just stands around not doing anything basically. Well it used to be this way all through pes 1-2016. That didnt stop our enjoyment of it.

Maybe we just getting too old for games... Innocence is lost.
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Aah there he is.

yes jenkey his work was great but that game editor is exactly what I am taking about it fooked the game up badly.

Anyway put a fork in me I am done.
 
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Chuny said:
You have no idea what you're talking about right there. First of all, that was Jenkey. One of the prodigal sons that has ever graced the PES community. He didn't unlock sliders. He created a slider type of option to set pass speed, shot curve, shot power, shot curve, player's reaction. But those weren't "hidden" instead the game's code. He simply found how to make those items more pronnounced, more powerfull, faster or slower. But that means he was actually modifying something in a way Konami never intended to.

Which is VERY different to having the very same company and the very same team that create the game adding actual REAL sliders implemented in the right way.

I'm very sorry that you can't see the advantages Sliders could bring to the game. And I'm even more sorry that you can't just say "I wouldn't use them, but it would be nice for the people that wants to have them" Since, you know, it's just an OPTION.
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Chuny,

I will remain not in favour of sliders for PES, however has anyone thought if we had them at the front end, what would we lose in the interface? Your implying they may as well stick them in , then its optional.OK, but I truly think You would see many game options actually disappear behind those sliders.
Its all theoretical though, and I think a timescale for developers would be extensive .The game is not built around it in the same way the other one is.
It would need a ground up effort to rebuild.
 
superleeds1 said:
Chuny,

I will remain not in favour of sliders for PES, however has anyone thought if we had them at the front end, what would we lose in the interface? Your implying they may as well stick them in , then its optional.OK, but I truly think You would see many game options actually disappear behind those sliders.
Its all theoretical though, and I think a timescale for developers would be extensive .The game is not built around it in the same way the other one is.
It would need a ground up effort to rebuild.
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But why do you think that?. What options do you think would disappear? It's not like we have that many options to begin with, right?.
 
that cpu cheating in ML even on professional...then you have a penalty shoot out in the CL

ron-swanson-computer-throw-out-parks-and-rec.gif
 
Sliders will just be an excuse for Konami. Mentioning the other game is just pathetic honestly. There is a reason why a lot don't feel much has changed in FIFA, I for one feel like barely anything had changed since 13. Sliders clearly had to do with it. While PES has been in a growing trend since 15. To me enough with excuses and just make a complete game, cuz honestly the game this year is great but the modes are so poor.
 
These are my ideas about what are you talking

First thing.. forgot exhibition mode. exhibition mean a friendly..
Second thing... forgot to have 15-20 fouls per match (neither on 30 mins) , (it's not flight simulator X)
Third and most important thing.. play on Professional/Top Player, over that all is totally scripted and maybe you could also be right saying that stats doesn't matter. And remember the impact of Team Spirit in ML .

I don't think that the stats doesn't matter
Any CB who join the forward repart not seems to have a great impact like a real forward (not agree?) ...
The difference between the copy base and a new player with the same stats/positions/player style/skill, IMO it's a bullshit. The copy base doesn't import the 'reputation values' that give team role like 'Stars, Legends, Bandiera and so on' so copy/base Messi or create a new player with the Messi stats it's the same thing.. Only the original Messi will have Legend role, the others clones will be great players without the experience of Messi, but trust me they will play in an amazing way as well .
Value of Physical Contact (the old Balance) is the key a good CB
Players style matter a lot, but some of them are a little wrong (IMO hole player, anchor man and def keeper)
I can't understand how some of you said that Speed and Explosive Power (Agility) doesn't matter..
Dzeko and Aguero run in the same way? like Higuain and Maradona?
Try play to use Chelsea with Diego Costa , Morata or Batsuashi.. really do you feel to control the same dummy?
Btw now i will try to see how the fake Ribery plays (he missing from KONAMI database) and following some replies should be like any stupid 40 OVR player ( i don't think so)
 
Im with zeemeister and he is spot on in that sliders will just have a mass impact over the whole game and not be the fix that people expect.

PES at its core needs elements working on. Get those right and things will improve, however blanket slider changes will not help it will just highlight more problems and extremes.
 
Well first of all.
Arent we having very basic (no pun) assisted shooting because this whole assisted-semi assisted-manual trend started a while ago?
Now shooting and passing is either goes with pin point accuracy with the help of the cpu or you can play manual. Stats cant kick in ever.

Its not an excuse to have sliders tho but if i could i would remove all these assistance levels if it was my game and only mine. And have back the stat based shooting and passing. But you have to please the customer.
 
How does having sliders equate with no more work being done by Konami? How is having more options worse?

The only reason I can see against sliders is the fragmentation of the user base, but at this point where single player modes are barely thrown a bone by Konami (ML is so backwards and antiquated), I don't care.

Also, the reason we want sliders is because we like most of what Konami offers in their gameplay. But there are little things that can be done. I'd love to increase first touch error from players, it will make you think much more about the passing options, and the individuality we all like.

Also, calling people that want sliders FIFAers in a derisive manne or something along those lines is the same tactic conservative parties around the world use to demonize an idea. Here in America it happens often, you want Universal Healthcare? you must be a communist! You don't want to go to war in Iraq? You must be a terrorist sympathizer!

I feel those tactics take away from meaningful conversation. Some people here are too loyal to a brand, as if they were a football club. I like football, and I want a game that pleases my sensibilities of the game, sliders would help that, given that I already enjoy many aspects of the game. That is all.
 
mehuk said:
Im with zeemeister and he is spot on in that sliders will just have a mass impact over the whole game and not be the fix that people expect.

PES at its core needs elements working on. Get those right and things will improve, however blanket slider changes will not help it will just highlight more problems and extremes.
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There is literally no proof of this. These are all assumptions. Using FIFA as a comparison is comparing apples to trucks, not apples to apples. It's a different engine, different script, different motion capture...DIFFERENT!

The only reality of those who don't want it is that they don't want any change and for some reason are not trusting their own community to look out for them. They would rather hope that the devs finally get in sync and hope that it's not another year of "What if".

With that said, 130 votes and 76% vote for sliders, took 3 days.

https://twitter.com/Matt10L/status/933136287770476544

I am also 96% sure it won't happen in PES, but I do not care at this point. I've learned that the man needing convincing will always remain unconvinced - so there really is no point. I'll keep pushing this until they get it right.

If the devs realize that there is a push that we want sliders, and that makes them think that they have let us down, then maybe that will be enough motivation to stop mucking about and get things right. However, to approach a video sports game with two demographics, arcade and sim, and not provide the customization for the sim crowd is highly prideful and borderline boneheaded approach. In terms of a proper system of duplication (i.e., the subway sandwich theory), it is fool proof for KONAMI. Their approach, it hasn't worked for 4-years running, so who knows, maybe 5th year is the charm.
 
zeemeister said:
Aah there he is.

yes jenkey his work was great but that game editor is exactly what I am taking about it fooked the game up badly.

Anyway put a fork in me I am done.
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It "fooked" the game (as you said) because it wasn't in the game by design.
It was an external mod.

For example, Need For Speed 2015 only had Night gameplay. Daylight never appeared in the game. A modder made a day-time mod. And while it looked great, there are a few times where shadows and other shapes made it clear that it wasn't perfect at all. So, it would be kind of funny if some people from the NFS community said "EA shouldn't add day/afternoon lighting in the next NFS games, because it looked strange in NFS 2015". OF COURSE! Because it wasn't even in the game to begin with!

So Jenkey's tool, as awesome as it was, made the gameplay kind of jerky at times, because he messed with the original code and then developed a UI with Sliders to make it easier for us to tweak it.

I'm done with this talk too. You will stick to your opinion no matter what I or anyone else say.
Hopefully, Konami will listen to us and include sliders in PES 2019 and we may finally have a game up to the times we live in...
 
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zeemeister said:
Why on earth would you go make a team full of goal keepers?

Did you know that if you play pes and put the controller down nothing happens. The AI just stands around not doing anything basically. Well it used to be this way all through pes 1-2016. That didnt stop our enjoyment of it.

Maybe we just getting too old for games... Innocence is lost.
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Why not? I don't have any issue beating the top teams with a team full of goal keepers? I don't notice that much difference anyway.
 
depends what areas people want sliders, if its pressure, more passing/shooting error, shaping of formation width/narrow for example im strongly against it too, cos that means manager tactics ID and player individuality/stats become useless, which is why fifa is a mess and one of the reasons i dont play it apart from fifa 16 which was ok to play cos pes was crap. i honestly believe theres no strong direction in konami which is why the game is still broken in certain areas, could also be one of the reasons why bhatti is going to live in japan to be with devs all the time to make sure the important areas of football aint broken for pes 19, i fkn hope thats the case anyway cos i aint buying the game now till its released cos E3 and gamescom demos obviously isnt the game come release which is why pes united podcast has pulled the plug, they have had enough as well of being deceived with false promises.

strongly disagree with people saying all games are end to end thats BS, konami create a variety of scenarios but unfortunately theres a bit of a mess that they need to fix, which is where the lack of direction comes from.
 
For me the bigger priorities than sliders is rectifying the emphasis of stats on players and removing the rigid team styles and bringing back what we had in PES 2011 which will bring out team individuality a bit more. Right now, all I see is team hoofing the ball like West Brom and always finding out the player because long pass stat doesn't matter. Every single match, every team plays accurate hoofball. So predictable and easy to defend until scripting kicks in which then makes all of my players a Sunday league team player and make them pretty much unresponsive and soulless. You don't see the cracks that PES 2018 is trying to hide until you start observing a pattern. There is no replayability in this game.
 
just finished playing againts stoke with liverpool.. top player. Won 2-1.. yes, they have some accurate ground passes, but they have missed some too and also with long ball.. I don't feel they are harder than milan in my last CL.
 
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