PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

vxcmplx said:
TRUTH.

People need to realize that assisted passing has a huge "snap" correction, where the ball always gets played to feet when you use X button, unless you have an outrageously bad aim. Even then, it's still a binary situation - if you miss the first player, it just gets "snapped" to the next player. The way the pass assistance bails you out of situations, makes it very difficult for the COM to collect possession from your mistakes, coz, you know, even if you make a mistake, half the time the pass just goes to a different player on your team.

Plus, you can rely on this snap behavior to get out of difficult space and situations with a few quick passes. Which I'm sure we all did when we played with assisted passing.

And all of this is related:



That's exactly my point. Manual is difficult at first, for people trying to make the switch, because they don't realize they are still looking for that "snap". The snap zone is small in manual, you really have to make your intentions clear when passing.

If you meant the pass for the first player, don't expect your pass to be fine if you miss the first guy, don't expect your pass can be meant for the 2nd player. If you miss it, you miss it. That's it. You'll have to deal with it. This may result in the 2nd player having to fight for it 50/50 with the defender. Your player, he may win, he may lose, he may not even react. But that's really within expectation - your pass was not meant for him to begin with.

Don't be discouraged because your old understanding of how passing works doesn't apply anymore.

I'm going to post this video, of a fast attacking style. I'm playing against superstar Barca, with River Plate, using full manual settings.

Yes, it's possible to play fast in manual. In fact, when you play fast in this game, the COM plays fast as well. You end up having space on both ends, which makes it easy to play fast (bigger gaps to play passes into and run through).

Notice how I always orient my body properly, to make sure to use the correct body animation for a pass. I can't stress how important this is in manual. If I want to use my instep, I have to orient my body so that I look ready to send a pass with my instep. I'm doing this, because like I said earlier, it effects accuracy. With assisted pass, you can just tap X, the snap overrides a lot of the details. A large part of pass accuracy's relationship to your body orientation gets omitted, because your pass has a lot more "snap" correction. Basically, in manual, you have to change the way you look at this game, you have to pay attention to these details.

- Pay attention to the body animation of the passer and the receiver
- Pass to space more often, you don't need to play it to feet
- Take liberty of how you use the pass power. The power should somewhat match the distance of the pass. You can also underhit/overhit it - your choice.


Here's the video of the fast game:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=I78gK-oJszI






If you want to see the same game, played slow, it was posted just a couple posts above:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kecjri_ADVg





When I play fast, I have 45% possession, 77% accuracy

When I play slow, I have 57% possession, 78% accuracy

It's not nearly as bad as you'd think, when you get the logic of how to use it. Don't give up.
Click to expand...

Very good post. I am surprised that many still reluctant to use manual passing because they either think it'shard or that it will completely override player individuality. How can I use basic shooting when it's only 3 directions.. Where is the reward of relying on the CPU to aim the pass or correct it based on the sitution
 
This demo just isn't for me on assisted passing, it's too easy. Which means online, yet again, will be goalfests.

I can't play Master League for a whole year because the lack of stadiums and authentic feel render the single player a little tiresome over the long haul.

There is a good game there, somewhere. But it all still feels so dated and out of touch with the modern game of football. This demo would have looked and felt so good back in 2006 but video gaming has evolved so much since then that I kinda have this empty feeling when I play PES these days.

Like a mug I will buy it on Day One but I am not excited for it.
 
Final Pass said:
This demo just isn't for me on assisted passing, it's too easy. Which means online, yet again, will be goalfests.

I can't play Master League for a whole year because the lack of stadiums and authentic feel render the single player a little tiresome over the long haul.

There is a good game there, somewhere. But it all still feels so dated and out of touch with the modern game of football. This demo would have looked and felt so good back in 2006 but video gaming has evolved so much since then that I kinda have this empty feeling when I play PES these days.

Like a mug I will buy it on Day One but I am not excited for it.
Click to expand...

Have you played 1vs1 or only vs CPU?

I played some games 1vs1 and it's very balanced with tight games and reasonable scorelines. You will see some matches ends 0-0 and some others with 4-6 goals.
 
vxcmplx said:
TRUTH.

People need to realize that assisted passing has a huge "snap" correction, where the ball always gets played to feet when you use X button, unless you have an outrageously bad aim. Even then, it's still a binary situation - if you miss the first player, it just gets "snapped" to the next player. The way the pass assistance bails you out of situations, makes it very difficult for the COM to collect possession from your mistakes, coz, you know, even if you make a mistake, half the time the pass just goes to a different player on your team.

Plus, you can rely on this snap behavior to get out of difficult space and situations with a few quick passes. Which I'm sure we all did when we played with assisted passing.

And all of this is related:



That's exactly my point. Manual is difficult at first, for people trying to make the switch, because they don't realize they are still looking for that "snap". The snap zone is small in manual, you really have to make your intentions clear when passing.

If you meant the pass for the first player, don't expect your pass to be fine if you miss the first guy, don't expect your pass can be meant for the 2nd player. If you miss it, you miss it. That's it. You'll have to deal with it. This may result in the 2nd player having to fight for it 50/50 with the defender. Your player, he may win, he may lose, he may not even react. But that's really within expectation - your pass was not meant for him to begin with.

Don't be discouraged because your old understanding of how passing works doesn't apply anymore.

I'm going to post this video, of a fast attacking style. I'm playing against superstar Barca, with River Plate, using full manual settings.

Yes, it's possible to play fast in manual. In fact, when you play fast in this game, the COM plays fast as well. You end up having space on both ends, which makes it easy to play fast (bigger gaps to play passes into and run through).

Notice how I always orient my body properly, to make sure to use the correct body animation for a pass. I can't stress how important this is in manual. If I want to use my instep, I have to orient my body so that I look ready to send a pass with my instep. I'm doing this, because like I said earlier, it effects accuracy. With assisted pass, you can just tap X, the snap overrides a lot of the details. A large part of pass accuracy's relationship to your body orientation gets omitted, because your pass has a lot more "snap" correction. Basically, in manual, you have to change the way you look at this game, you have to pay attention to these details.

- Pay attention to the body animation of the passer and the receiver
- Pass to space more often, you don't need to play it to feet
- Take liberty of how you use the pass power. The power should somewhat match the distance of the pass. You can also underhit/overhit it - your choice.


Here's the video of the fast game:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=I78gK-oJszI






If you want to see the same game, played slow, it was posted just a couple posts above:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kecjri_ADVg





When I play fast, I have 45% possession, 77% accuracy

When I play slow, I have 57% possession, 78% accuracy

It's not nearly as bad as you'd think, when you get the logic of how to use it. Don't give up.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this post. I finally gave it a go with manual passing. I knocked the level down to Prof and with your tips i have been able to pass the ball a lot better. I played around 5 or 6 games and by the last one i kind of forgot that it was on manual because i was pinging the ball around pretty quick.

I am struggling to score though, in fact i didnt score at all in those games i played. I know i will get slaughtered for this but the GK's are saving everything i throw at them. I blast it and they catch it. I shoot either side and they do this fantastic one handed save. They are much more realistic compared to PES2016 but i feel they need to be toned down slightly, very slighlty.

bluewomble88 said:
I don't really know what to say. I can still take the ball off the AI sometimes a bit too easily but this time they had more variety and a higher killer instinct. Maybe it was the differences between the two teams' formations - try the same sides on Top Player and see what you think.

I'm playing with manual shooting, everything else assisted 1, 10 minute match, dry with short grass. I really must learn manual shooting - I'm so used to 10 years of PES 6 where I'd hold the stick up whilst shooting as a cross came in to aim for that corner with headers. Now some shots are going out for throw ins because of this habit. It'll come eventually.

I'm now pretty convinced the variations in AI are simply down to it being an exhibition game. I'm not going to waste energy searching for faults - I'm enjoying the game and that's what matters.

Maybe we can finally get a game sorted out online?
Click to expand...

Yes blue keep practicing you will get the hang of it eventually. It actually took me about 2-3 years to get the hang of the stick. Once you have mastered that then give manual passing a go. It is better though i did have my doubts earlier. Yes it would be good to have a game after all this time. :)
 
broxopios said:
Have you played 1vs1 or only vs CPU?

I played some games 1vs1 and it's very balanced with tight games and reasonable scorelines. You will see some matches ends 0-0 and some others with 4-6 goals.
Click to expand...

I have played a few 1v1 games against my son and they have been extremely high scoring.
 
jamiee said:
The biggest and the most basic issue is that AI plays too direct it is as if all AI teams are on counter.Each one of them.How can you have 60 % possession as boca against barca or arsenal on manual on superstar .Its basics.All AI teams play essentially the same way.Its like different days of rains.Where as what is required is different days of different weather.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thank god someone actually feels the same way :PRAY:
 
Final Pass said:
We can't prove otherwise. He didn't have to be so harsh on the poster.
Click to expand...

Basically there was nothing wrong with what he said. I just don't believe him at all because the cpu has plenty of shots against me. It is very well possible that he is a much better player than me.

I had problems with the way he expressed himself, but in my reaction i tried to use irony. Obviously this didn't work out like this.

If i've huurt feelings, then i apologize...

OK now?
 
I don't envy anyone who says that they have played 20 games on Superstar and the CPU has managed 3 shots. I pity them for the following reasons:

1) They have been keeping track of CPU attempts on goal for TWENTY MATCHES. TWENTY.

2) They are sabotaging/compromising the game for themselves, not Konami

3) I seriously doubt they are playing in a fashion that could be even remotely described as "naturally"

4) They are approaching the game like a playtester/bug tester

5) They are not getting paid for point 4

I pity them like I do the person who, when loading the game up the first time, tries to dribble around the entire opposition with a goalkeeper or centre-back.

I am all for analysis and an element of destruction in order to spot potential issues, but pro-actively making it your mission to do so makes no sense to me at all. Matt and a few others are exceptions here, as they play naturally and make observations that way.
 
Final Pass said:
I have played a few 1v1 games against my son and they have been extremely high scoring.
Click to expand...

I don't know mate. I've played a lot 1vs1 and it's extremely fun game with reasonable scorelines.

But when one player needs a goal and put attack level to 5, then to score against him is a good opportunity.
 
curdstar said:
I don't envy anyone who says that they have played 20 games on Superstar and the CPU has managed 3 shots. I pity them for the following reasons:

1) They have been keeping track of CPU attempts on goal for TWENTY MATCHES. TWENTY.

2) They are sabotaging/compromising the game for themselves, not Konami

3) I seriously doubt they are playing in a fashion that could be even remotely described as "naturally"

4) They are approaching the game like a playtester/bug tester

5) They are not getting paid for point 4

I pity them like I do the person who, when loading the game up the first time, tries to dribble around the entire opposition with a goalkeeper or centre-back.

I am all for analysis and an element of destruction in order to spot potential issues, but pro-actively making it your mission to do so makes no sense to me at all. Matt and a few others are exceptions here, as they play naturally and make observations that way.
Click to expand...

So does that apply to someone who played PES 2016 and reported no fouls or injuries in 20 games vs CPU as well?

I report things that makes the game unrealistic because I want them fixed, You guys take it personally and end up with a mess of a game year in year out.

Carry on
 
They need to seriously consider changing the 1 bar pass assist. People that play on that are going to find it too easy.
Click to expand...

this is exactly what I said when I first played the PES 2017 demo

it seems to me that pass assist 1 should actually be pass assist 2 and that manual should be pass assist 1.

manual in PES 2017 = pass assist 1 in PES 2016

manual shoot and pass in 2017 is not as difficult as it was in the previous versions.

Konami should force myclub or online divisions to play at manual pass as default

even if they don't.. I will still use manual vs pass assist 1 players as manual is not as difficult and I feel I can still beat them
even with it

I can't even imagine what would pass assist 2 or 3 even would do? I mean really... this shouldn't even be in the game as an option lol

online users pass assist 3 in 2017 will be far worst than playing FIFA online full assisted controls. How can this be ? Why is konami catering to this arcade like crowd...
 
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steveee said:
this is exactly what I said when I first played the PES 2017 demo

it seems to me that pass assist 1 should actually be pass assist 2 and that manual should be pass assist 1.

manual in PES 2017 = pass assist 1 in PES 2016

manual shoot and pass in 2017 is not as difficult as it was in the previous versions.

Konami should force myclub or online divisions to play at manual pass as default

even if they don't.. I will still use manual vs pass assist 1 players as manual is not as difficult and I feel I can still beat them
even with it

I can't even imagine what would pass assist 2 or 3 even would do? I mean really... this shouldn't even be in the game as an option lol

online users pass assist 3 in 2017 will be far worst than playing FIFA online full assisted controls. How can this be ? Why is konami catering to this arcade like crowd...
Click to expand...

Whaa? Manual shooting is way harder on Pes 2017 demo .. . I should know I was still playing manual on Pes 2016 just before the demo came out.
 
chiefrocka4real said:
I think we are all mature enough to tolerate each other's opinions.

I like the game this year, agree with some points and disagree with others.
I enjoy it and no one with a negative post can talk it down to me.

Maybe we just shouldn't be so sensitive.
Click to expand...

Top post!

Anyone can go on about all the flaws but I love it!

End of!
 
zeemeister said:
Don't touch those damn keepers :LOL:
Click to expand...

Good god don't go near those keepers they're brilliant . .I saw an incredible low one handed save by one today, incredible .. .also saw a weird thing while playing today . ..the ball was slowly going over the byline for a corner against me with my defender trying to stop it ... . .it went about 2 yards over the byline and I managed to kick it back into touch but the game resumed with a throw-in even though it was a clear corner.
 
shez said:
So does that apply to someone who played PES 2016 and reported no fouls or injuries in 20 games vs CPU as well?

I report things that makes the game unrealistic because I want them fixed, You guys take it personally and end up with a mess of a game year in year out.

Carry on
Click to expand...

The things you report are not in line with my pes 2017 Demo.
I got a CPU scoring in different ways and shooting properly onto my goal, CPU comits fouls, when I am in dribblings,
Even 1 time i have seen an injury in nearly 80 - 100 matches.

Injuries i would not take the demo as reference. The only thing i have to admit, CPU is - even on Superstar - easy to stop, at least when playing with pass assistance. On manual, due to more passing errors it is a little bit more tricky.

I am not bad in defending, but I also think that 3 shots at your goal in total after 20 matches are unlikely - this means at least 85% of all Games CPU had no shot onto your goal, even on assisted seems it to be unlikely at Superstar level.

Nevertheless, if you don't like it due to several reasons it is quite ok. I am happy that this demo brought back the "one more match" feeling for me.
If the final game keeps it, for me it will the best PES since PES 6 and the real successor to the series back in the PS2 era :)
 
we7god said:
The things you report are not in line with my pes 2017 Demo.
I got a CPU scoring in different ways and shooting properly onto my goal, CPU comits fouls, when I am in dribblings,
Even 1 time i have seen an injury in nearly 80 - 100 matches.

Injuries i would not take the demo as reference. The only thing i have to admit, CPU is - even on Superstar - easy to stop, at least when playing with pass assistance. On manual, due to more passing errors it is a little bit more tricky.

I am not bad in defending, but I also think that 3 shots at your goal in total after 20 matches are unlikely - this means at least 85% of all Games CPU had no shot onto your goal, even on assisted seems it to be unlikely at Superstar level.

Nevertheless, if you don't like it due to several reasons it is quite ok. I am happy that this demo brought back the "one more match" feeling for me.
If the final game keeps it, for me it will the best PES since PES 6 and the real successor to the series back in the PS2 era :)
Click to expand...

Let's hope so :)
 
Deco said:
Whaa? Manual shooting is way harder on Pes 2017 demo .. . I should know I was still playing manual on Pes 2016 just before the demo came out.
Click to expand...

maybe I'm just use to it then and have gotten better at manual since I played like that on 2016. but to me the manual passing seems easier than 2016... don't you agree? the shooting is about the same.. I am not saying it's easy but I have scored some wonderful goals using manual shooting in the PES 2017 demo already that seem I could never do in PES 2016 on manual. I would miss the target far to often on for sure goals on manual in 2016. Maybe my aim is just better but I doubt it

pass assist 1 is way to much assistance regardless.. I know that for sure
 
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Played the demo 8-10 times last week,and played for the first time since Friday last week I think.
And seeing people whining about this and that,don't get it,this game,if it stays the way it is now,will be a benchmark in the PES series.
The responsiveness and play from the CPU is fantastic.
If you feel like whining go ahead,but I think for all PES players who stuck with this product through the really horrible years,I think we/you know how good this is.
I'm not gonna compare,but I've played other games lately,just to keep my "career/ML" going,and those games,no matter which they are,have absolutely nothing on this one.
Personal opinion of course,but I bet most guys since PES 5-6 days should be over the moon for the 15th of Sep.
I saw thing today on Top player from the CPU that just stunned me.
So for all that starts to believe the negatives in here,stop playing the demo for few days,play PES 16, or better,the "other game" and then go back to this with fresh eyes,it's pretty fucking awesome
 
rockstrongo said:
Played the demo 8-10 times last week,and played for the first time since Friday last week I think.
And seeing people whining about this and that,don't get it,this game,if it stays the way it is now,will be a benchmark in the PES series.
The responsiveness and play from the CPU is fantastic.
If you feel like whining go ahead,but I think for all PES players who stuck with this product through the really horrible years,I think we/you know how good this is.
I'm not gonna compare,but I've played other games lately,just to keep my "career/ML" going,and those games,no matter which they are,have absolutely nothing on this one.
Personal opinion of course,but I bet most guys since PES 5-6 days should be over the moon for the 15th of Sep.
I saw thing today on Top player from the CPU that just stunned me.
So for all that starts to believe the negatives in here,stop playing the demo for few days,play PES 16, or better,the "other game" and then go back to this with fresh eyes,it's pretty fucking awesome
Click to expand...


i agree for the most part... I can't wait to see what it's like to play against another human in this game as I haven't yet. but I do wish that konami would do one of these things for the final release of the game

a)make pass assist 1 which is default more difficult
or
b)force everyone to use manual pass for myclubs or divs online

other than that.. I don't think they should change anything as far as gameplay ..
 
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rockstrongo said:
Played the demo 8-10 times last week,and played for the first time since Friday last week I think.
And seeing people whining about this and that,don't get it,this game,if it stays the way it is now,will be a benchmark in the PES series.
The responsiveness and play from the CPU is fantastic.
If you feel like whining go ahead,but I think for all PES players who stuck with this product through the really horrible years,I think we/you know how good this is.
I'm not gonna compare,but I've played other games lately,just to keep my "career/ML" going,and those games,no matter which they are,have absolutely nothing on this one.
Personal opinion of course,but I bet most guys since PES 5-6 days should be over the moon for the 15th of Sep.
I saw thing today on Top player from the CPU that just stunned me.
So for all that starts to believe the negatives in here,stop playing the demo for few days,play PES 16, or better,the "other game" and then go back to this with fresh eyes,it's pretty fucking awesome
Click to expand...

Bravo, great post and I agree!
 
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